Durability

[Will_Morgan]

Please don't forget to consider the Akubra Adventurer.

Designed with specs given to us for the last film by the property master, and if you need to exchange for size we have a 90 day return policy and can serve you quickly.

http://www.davidmorgan.com/product_info ... ts_id=1128

[Michaelson]

Property master from CS, Will?

Considering Steve Delk (Fedora here at COW) and Marc Kitter (Marc here at COW) MADE the CS hats for the last film, it will be interesting to see how those specifications compare to the real thing!

Would you be able to post some photos or supply a link to one?

Thanks!

Regards! Michaelson

[Will_Morgan]

Alas, I don't think David's notes on the phone conversation have survived, but they are there related there in the crown and brim of the Adventurer.

I do not wish to get off into a discussion of millimeters and the height of Harrison Ford in his shoes or not etc..., I believe that first and foremost a hat needs to fit and look good on YOU, the wearer. Have you ever tried one on? )

The Adventurer is a great hat made by a great hat maker Akubra. North American Akubra dealers have supplied lots of satisfied Adventurer wearers who were after an Indy style hat. Plus it's plenty durable. I just want to point that out as certainly the Adventurer is as durable as a Federation, and might just fit some faces better!

[laughograms]

Alas, I don't think David's notes on the phone conversation have survived, but they are there related there in the crown and brim of the Adventurer.

So you're making a rather extraordinary claim to market your product and won't take a moment to back up this claim to arguably the largest number of students of this hat in the world, including the men who hand-made every hat for Indy 4?

I do not wish to get off into a discussion of millimeters and the height of Harrison Ford in his shoes or not etc...,

By all means, let's not get simply acquired facts (that matter to a great many people here, derisive though your tone was) involved in the discussion. What good are facts anyway?

The Adventurer is a great hat made by a great hat maker Akubra.

I don't know too many people (there's only one that springs to mind) who would knock Akubra, but that's not what Michaelson is asking -- he's not impugning Akubra in any way. He's asking for the specs on the hat, and where they came from, more specifically. Dismissive though you might be, I think they're simple questions and fair, and i don't think I am the only one.

Please note, I am not accusing anyone of lying or anything of the sort. What I am saying is that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence (or in this case, at least ordinary evidence) when it's honestly asked for in a spirit of critical goodwill.

[Michaelson]

I believe that first and foremost a hat needs to fit and look good on YOU, the wearer. Have you ever tried one on? )

Why, yes I have. The Adventurer crown was lower than I like (but that's just me and my particular taste), but all in all another excellent Akubra. The lower crown is why I asked about your CS spec statement, as it's a pretty tall crown. Why do you ask?

I've worn and owned more Akubras over the years than most folks here, and will continue to speak highly of their fine products, all of which are made in Australia, regardless of WHO sells them.

You were the one who brought up the point of your hat being made up from specs supplied by the prop master of CS, and you did so on a site made up of members of a hobby who asks for specific information when such a claim is made...especially by someone who sells these items, as you have so stated you are doing.

If you are such a strong advocate of this hat, please supply specs/details/photos. The readers here are your potential customers.

Regards! Michaelson

[Will_Morgan]

I'm very glad you are experienced with, and like Akubras Mr Michaelson, and glad you've tried on an Adventurer.

Around the time we got the orders for the whips for the last Indiana Jones movie David got crown and brim measurements from the prop master which started the design of the Adventurer. Alas no pictures, notarized documents etc... just oral history.

[DR Ulloa]

So, the specs would have been from the Last Crusade hat, not Crystal Skull, correct? I assume that the prop master would not have had access to the hats Steve and Marc made for the film at that time, if they were even made yet.

Dave

[Texan Scott]

Here is an exact quote from the Hats Direct/Akubra website for those as yet uninformed:

"Hatsdirect and Akubra Hats, together set about creating a new hat, selecting an older hat block set from that era. Advice from Mark Cross (Indygear.com) and Steve Delk (the hat maker for the latest Indiana Jones movie, Adventurebuilt) have assisted with advice and specifications for the new hat."

http://www.hatsdirect.com/federation/index.html


...some have been tinkering around this 'sport' for quite a long time.

[kiltie]

I know there's a history with the AkAd ( 'cause I stepped right in the middle of it and it still won't come off my boots ), and the story and the sentiments surrounding that history really oughtta be availed to the person who started the thread. Otherwise, they gotta wade through the mire and are left to wonder what the bad smell in the air is.
I ( oh Lord, please forgive me ) own an Akubra Adventurer. It was the first hat I ever bought that was intended to be an Indy style:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM1832.jpg

Therefore it was my first attempt at any sort of Indy crease job. It's a very forgiving hat, and mine has seen a lot of action. As far as this forum is concerned however, it's not the right place to start ( even though I'm partial to it - but I always like a dark horse ).

Yes, the ribbon is the wrong color. Yes, most will argue ( and probably rightfully so [ and in the case of the CS hat, certainly rightfully so ] ) that the block-shape doesnt yield the best Indy hat. Yes the brim is too wide.
All that said, it's a good hat: constructed well, good materials, and so, as to the original question, durable. The brim size gives you a chance to fiddle with a width that can accomodate just about any face, or you can just leave it for some very real and useful protection against the sun.
I hope that goes to the original question. As to any other claims, like I said, there's a history here that apparently every new member has do dig up for themselves or risk being burned as a heretic ( < me ).
I gotta go with the crowd on this one though and say, for the money, if it's an Indiana Jones hat you're looking for, the Federation is the best bet.
BUT...
Knowing everything I know now, I'd wait one more paycheck and go a Penman for sure.

[Michaelson]

As to any other claims, like I said, there's a history here that apparently every new member has do dig up for themselves or risk being burned as a heretic ( < me ).

Yeah, but since you're a fireman, we figured you could take the heat.



For those who came in late, regarding the quote from the HatsDirect page, we went to Mr. Morgan Sr. first regarding a hat for our hobby 'back in the day', but he passed on the request. That's why we ended up on HatsDirect's doorstep, and they stepped up to the plate instantly. If that had not happened, we would probably have been singing the praises of the DM Adventurer all these years instead of the Fed......for that fact, the Fed line would have never been created in the first place.

Like I said, Akubra makes a fine hat, no matter WHO you buy it from. The devil is, as usual, in the details, as kiltie points out above, if you're into that sort of thing. At this site, I can't think WHO would be worried about a thing like 'details' ...

Regards! Michaelson

[Texan Scott]

I think that the Akubra Fed. IV and Fed. IV Deluxe, like any close enough Indy fedora, has to be weighed in the balance of desired features vs. finished product, based on the individual's preference. It's a personal choice, and does it meet 'my' criteria? For a rabbit/hare blended hat, considering materials, workmanship, etc., it delivers, in terms of quality felt, and the sweatband is among the best in the forum at this time. The felt color is a little darker and the ribbon is not 'exactly' SA, so all these components should be considered. If I'm not mistaken, you can request your own brim dimensions. If so, 2 7/8" front to back and 2 5/8" side to side provides the desired appearance. Shipping is fast to the states.

[Kim Hoffman]

How the shape of the hat wears is based on how the owner cares for it. In the movies, regardless of Indy's near death experiences, his hat bounces back. But in real life your hat may not be so lucky. Beaver hats are the mst durable, but if over exposed to water - rain, floods. waterfalls, oceans, the hat will wind up looking like a rug hanging down from your head. Brush the hat, keep it dry, rest it upside down, and handling it only by its brim will add years to its life. Heck, hats no longer cost five or ten dollars - now they cost hundreds.

[Texan Scott]

I think that one of the factors that might help going forward is for the author to define potentially ambiguous terms, like "durability" or "looks", "value" or other such terms. One person's trash is another one's treasure, etc. There are obviously more things to consider that just durability, like felt, color, appearance, sweatband, crown height, bash, brim dimensions, etc. You can potentially get lost in a miriad of details.

Generally speaking, if someone gets a close enough, then they might think it is a great hat, initially. After the newness wears off, and it has been rebashed and fiddled with some, then the reality of the purchase sets in.....well, the ribbon or the color or etc. is not exactly right, and the search begins again. It's the fallacy of the 'sport' to some degree, and depends on comfort level. Will the person be happy with a close enough, if the details are not exactly right? The 'close enoughs' tend to be on the lower end of the price spectum, though not necessarily indicative of quality. Is it better to save a little longer, spend a little more, and get the more SA, usually custom made choice? Doing it once and doing it right so you do not have to do it again has at its core value a certain level of comfort and sanity. However, getting back to individuality, purely in the eye and pocketbook of the beholder.

Most durable: beaver, no question. Price/value/looks maybe the fed.

[DR Ulloa]

Here is an exact quote from the Hats Direct/Akubra website for those as yet uninformed:

"Hatsdirect and Akubra Hats, together set about creating a new hat, selecting an older hat block set from that era. Advice from Mark Cross (Indygear.com) and Steve Delk (the hat maker for the latest Indiana Jones movie, Adventurebuilt) have assisted with advice and specifications for the new hat."

http://www.hatsdirect.com/federation/index.html


...some have been tinkering around this 'sport' for quite a long time.

TS, this si referring to the Federation IV, not the Adventurer. They are two different hats. The Federation is offered exclusively though Hats Direct and the Adventurer through David Morgan. Lets not confuse facts here.

Dave

[Texan Scott]

All the specs are the same as the Fed, and they have nothing called the 'Adventurer'. This is the same hat named something else by another vendor. It is even shipped unbashed, unless you want to pay $20 extra for the bash job. Yeah, let's not confuse anyone with the 'facts'. By the way, the Fed IV 'Imperial Quality' (aka Fed. IV Standard) felt is currently selling for $85.09 USD on the hats direct website:

http://www.hatsdirect.com/cgi-bin/produ ... turnpage=0

[jlee562]

All the specs are the same as the Fed, and they have nothing called the 'Adventurer'. This is the same hat named something else by another vendor. It is even shipped unbashed, unless you want to pay $20 extra for the bash job. Yeah, let's not confuse anyone with the 'facts'. By the way, the Fed IV 'Imperial Quality' (aka Fed. IV Standard) felt is currently selling for $85.09 USD on the hats direct website:

http://www.hatsdirect.com/cgi-bin/produ ... turnpage=0

Hate to contradict you, but the Adventurer does not have the same specs as the Fed IV. From the David Morgan site:

The open crown is 5-1/2 inches, the raw edge brim is 3-1/8 inches on the front and back, 2-3/4 inches on the sides. It is made in Akubra’s Imperial Quality fur felt in a mid brown color.

From Hats Direct, on the Fed IV:

The new Federation IV with a sample shape. The Federation comes "Open Crown" ready for you to shape.

Crown height is 5 5/8ths inches. Made from an original wooden hat block set which have not been used for over 35 years.

The brim is dimensional cut to 2 1/2" on the sides and 2 3/4" front and back.

[Texan Scott]

5 1/2" ~ 5 5/8" the difference is miniscule. A retailer could get the factory to change specs on the brim. I still say we are talking about the Fed Standard with altered brim dimensions. The felt is the same. Why is it no one else sells the 'Akubra Adventurer'? Not listed on any of the other sites.

[Russian Raider]

I still say we are talking about the Fed Standard with altered brim dimensions. The felt is the same.

In another topic there was a picture of Fed IV and Adventurer in one shot. Adventurer has different ribbon and color of the hat itself is different. Maybe felt is the same as it was with HJ and Christy's.

[kiltie]

TS -
I have both an Adventurer and a Federation IV. While I can't attest to the older model Federations, the current model and the AkAd are considerably different. Different block shape ( very much so ), different brim dimensions, different bow styles, different colors, and even the texture of the felt seems different. As to the last point, I do have to add that I have six* different Akubras in five different models and save for the two vintage I have ( early Vietnam era army hats ) the felt on each hat is slightly different even though they're all Imperial.
The AkAd is a good, GOOD outdoor hat; a real Adventurer, as opposed to the Christys' ( which I like as well, so that's no jab, just the truth ), but other than the fact that they both go on your head, the Federation and the Adventurer are vastly different. I'm sure that in more talented hands you can get a good Indy hat out of the AkAd.

FED IV -


AkAd -


AkAd bow detail -
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM1831.jpg



*Squatter - through DM
Federation IV - through HD
Adventurer ( David Morgan )
Camp Draft - HD
2 Army Type ( vintage ) - one through surplus, one an old Eddie Bauer Seattle store original

****while these pics were taken under different conditions, they actually reflect the differences quite well for the purposes of demonstration.

[Russian Raider]

I was talking about your pics kiltie. Do you own Fed Iv Deluxe? Color and felt quality of AKAD looks very alike.

[Michaelson]

5 1/2" ~ 5 5/8" the difference is miniscule. A retailer could get the factory to change specs on the brim. I still say we are talking about the Fed Standard with altered brim dimensions. The felt is the same. Why is it no one else sells the 'Akubra Adventurer'? Not listed on any of the other sites.

The 'Adventurer' is an Akubra DM exclusive product, just as the Federation line is an Akubra exclusive product of HatsDirect. That's why you do not, and WILL not find these hats offered by other vendors.

Akubra uses two completely different block sets to make these for the two companies, and no, they are NOT using the Fed Standard to make the Adventurer. Believe me, as both vendors work closely with Akubra (DM being the largest U.S. Akubra franchise, and HatsDirect their largest international seller), and both hats are completely separate of each other. The only thing they share in common is felt grade.

Regards! Michaelson

[enigmata_wood]

I have to agree that the regular Fed IV is excellent for durability versus price. As for rabbit fur tapering - I fixed that by making a budget hat dryer
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41363&hilit=+shape

[kiltie]

I was talking about your pics kiltie. Do you own Fed Iv Deluxe? Color and felt quality of AKAD looks very alike.

That's a regular Federation, and the only one I own. There is a thread, a bit over a year old, trying to describe the color of the AkAd. It's really, honestly quite different from the Federaton's brown. It ( the Adventurer ) takes on a greenish cast sometimes, so much so that I dunked it in the bathtub during a hat experimentation frenzy and, due to the city water treatment, minerals, whatever mind control chemicals are in there ( ), it turned green. The AkAd is Imperial.

[Michaelson]

Some of the Fed III's came with the same greenish tint too.

Regards !Michaelson

[kiltie]

I suppose it's possible then that the Adventurer is a closer relative of the III. Perhaps Akubra, knowing that the IV line was on the horizon, relegated that color and whatever bodies were in stock to the Adventurer line. I dunno, though, since I haven't a III, nor have I ever seen one in person. The bow, I've noticed, is the same as the III.

[BendingOak]

Every fed I worked on for a re-block they lost their color and had a green tint to them. I no longer re-block/block them the same way I do my own hats. They can't take it. When I re-block them I just pull them over the block with steam and a light water. They don't get the full treatment or they are at risk of loosing color.

[Michaelson]

I wonder if it has to do with the fact they use jack rabbit fur in the blend? That's the only thing that's different between an Akubra and any other rabbit fur hat I'm aware of.

Regards! Michaelson

[BendingOak]

I don't think it's the fur. I think it's the dye or how they do it. I'm not sure it's just a guess.