The Bantu Wind discussions

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:16 am

thanks, do you think the auction jacket was an authentic 'Grace'jacket and if so that makes at least 3 for him........

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:19 am

_ wrote:
Hatch wrote:_ , was the Bantu wind jacket with Ford sitting on the dock photo with the low yoke the prototype or a possible Wilsons .....why are most of other shots and the Hawaii jacket higher yoked ........thanks
Location shots by Bantu = Original Hero...
On-Screen Bantu = Martin Grace's first Leather Concessionaires jacket from the mismatched order...
Hawaii Location = Martin Grace's Hero Replica from third order...

If the still photo is original 'hero' and Grace Hawaii jacket a copy of it and one TN had why the difference in the yoke heights ??

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:28 am

_ wrote : My “basis” for comparison was my “disco-lambskin” Wested. I was still a “believer” and had not realized yet that my Wested was not an accurate jacket. I say that to explain why I was impressed by the degree of graining on the jacket – some of which I would explain by the desiccation. It was heavily grained, ala the “dino-hide” I saw come out of Tony’s shop…
VERY interesting about the 'grain' .....have you gotten a 'Shrunken lamb' yet, or been to TN's facility to see it ?

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:37 am

_ wrote:
A "copy" to Leather Concessionaires may generally pass for a "copy" to the script supervisor, but not to us...

And the wardrobe budget was blown...

And there was no more time to richard-around with jackets...

And who in their right mind would ever notice? (grin)

Just us 'True Believers'......can I get an AMEN BROTHER.....

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:57 am

Hatch wrote:
_ wrote:
Hatch wrote:_ , was the Bantu wind jacket with Ford sitting on the dock photo with the low yoke the prototype or a possible Wilsons .....why are most of other shots and the Hawaii jacket higher yoked ........thanks
Location shots by Bantu = Original Hero...
On-Screen Bantu = Martin Grace's first Leather Concessionaires jacket from the mismatched order...
Hawaii Location = Martin Grace's Hero Replica from third order...

If the still photo is original 'hero' and Grace Hawaii jacket a copy of it and one TN had why the difference in the yoke heights ??

If by still photo you mean the sitting on the dock waiting (on a 'set') wearing the low yoke jacket, that jacket I think _ said is one of he 'wrong' jackets from the second order. So it wouldn't be the Hero.

In the 'location' photos Holt posted though, which is supposed to be the Hero' the jacket does appear to have a low yoke too but that might just be more illusion.

I wonder if any of those low yoke jackets were used up in the truck drag scenes and getting ready for it? Although we don't really see HF wearing a low yoke jacket in those.
If there were it might account for some of the poor shape of the jacket _ examined and Terry Leonard's name written in it.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:13 pm

_ wrote:I think I picked up the questions asked of me directly - let me know if I missed something...

Bullitt wrote:I wonder what the texture of the jacket _ examined was like. I mean there are a number of people here who actually saw and/or handled the film jackets in person. So why is this shrunken lamb discussion so recent? Was the texture of these jackets previously mistaken for a result of the distressing process and the general age of these jackets?

Dutch_jones wrote:_,
Regarding the jacket you examined in 2000: You said you were wearing (or had with you ) at the time a Wested jacket ? Was it a lamb jacket? And when you examined it, did you see any major differences in the texture of the hide between the two? In terms of grain etc?
The jacket was in pretty poor shape because of how it was stored – for the most part desiccated. It was about to be restored. Also, I was not allowed to “handle” it because of the condition. It was “handled” for me by one of the owner’s sons.

My “basis” for comparison was my “disco-lambskin” Wested. I was still a “believer” and had not realized yet that my Wested was not an accurate jacket. I say that to explain why I was impressed by the degree of graining on the jacket – some of which I would explain by the desiccation. It was heavily grained, ala the “dino-hide” I saw come out of Tony’s shop…

RCSignals wrote:…and _ posted a photo of a piece of a B3 to show what the skin of it looked like. You say you know it matches a Raiders jacket. That's pretty funny too
Not a B3. That was the hide on an A2, i.e. no shearling…

Ah right. I remember now, you had talked abut a B3 then your Areo Bronco A2 in Sheepskin. That must be a reproduction? I didn't think know any WW2 original A2s were sheepskin unless custom made.

_ wrote:
Dutch_jones wrote:_ this might have been covered before. But the prototype jacket that arrived in La Rochelle, was the One we see in the movie right? Were any changes made after receiving that jacket for the rest? (Might have been covered before) just trying to make some sense of a few loose ends around here.
No mods – Kelly placed the order based on the “One”… The “changes” were those of “natural variation” that we see coming out of Wested generally. Collar/stormflap placement… Pocket placement… Side-strap configuration… Just general details only geeks like us spot…

There must have been enough significant changes/differences to cause her to order three more jackets. That also must have given the accountant fits

Does she remember how many of the 10 jackets were unusable for filming?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:15 pm

The tiny amount that these additional jackets cost would not have broken any banks.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:31 pm

Kt Templar wrote:The tiny amount that these additional jackets cost would not have broken any banks.

That's assuming they would charge the costumer the same as we can buy a Wested today. (On top of that, I'm sure filming schedules and how quickly they could get jackets also came into play.) I do remember Steve Delk sharing that Bernie was surprised how little Steve charged for his hats. He charged them the same as he charges us. Bernie apparently implied that Steve could inflate the price dramatically for the hats, but Steve refused to do so. I'm sure the practice is commonplace in the movie industry. Besides that, if a significant number of jackets were "defective," why pay for even more of the same?

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:33 pm

Kt Templar wrote:The tiny amount that these additional jackets cost would not have broken any banks.

Except they were already over budget, had already bought 10 Wilson's jackets and had to get approval to buy 10 more jackets from B+N.
Add in the cost of building a Bantu Wind set and 3 more jackets is a bigger event suddenly.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:39 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:
Kt Templar wrote:The tiny amount that these additional jackets cost would not have broken any banks.
That's assuming they would charge the costumer the same as we can buy a Wested today. (On top of that, I'm sure filming schedules and how quickly they could get jackets also came into play.) I do remember Steve Delk sharing that Bernie was surprised how little Steve charged for his hats. He charged them the same as he charges us. Bernie apparently implied that Steve could inflate the price dramatically for the hats, but Steve refused to do so. I'm sure the practice is commonplace in the movie industry. Besides that, if a significant number of jackets were "defective," why pay for even more of the same?

Yes, but from what I've heard filmakers get charged the same as us mere mortals, by Peter that is.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:33 pm

_ wrote:
RCSignals wrote:If by still photo you mean the sitting on the dock waiting (on a 'set') wearing the low yoke jacket, that jacket I think _ said is one of he 'wrong' jackets from the second order. So it wouldn't be the Hero.
Nope - We speculated, but both Kimball and Nadoolman confirmed Deb put the Hero on him there on location. That's the hero. Whatever you're seeing there - you ain't seeing...

The sitting on the dock waiting photo is the one that's been identified as the 'set' and it's the jacket of the topic with the low yoke etc. That's the photo that wouldn't be the 'Hero'

It's not just me seeing it.

Maybe Kimball and Nadoolman need to see that photo and the jacket photos of the rest of the movie.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:35 pm

Yes, but from what I've heard filmakers get charged the same as us mere mortals, by Peter that is.

Sure KT but Peter was charging B+N who in their turn charged the filmakers I don't know what.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:37 pm

Maybe Kimball and Nadoolman don't even know what the yoke is. (TN was calling it something else)

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:56 pm

Platon? I just don't know how to answer when you say things like that... It's like saying that maybe the guys at Mercedes don't know what the engine block is on my car, so I should listen to the guy who talks to himself in front of the Starbucks... What am I supposed to do with that?

I think you misunderstood me. I am saying that there is some other term for "yoke" in American english, which explains why TN was calling it otherwise. So I meant If you were to ask them about the "yoke", maybe they wouldn't be sure what exactly you talk about.

What was that other name TN was using for the yoke, anyone?

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:31 pm

I had a thought. I think it has come up before.

The original hero, at least it sounds like it is the version that is seen at Bantu. It looks like or is similar to the one that _ examined that the G&B's were modeled after. It may look like the one that was auctioned off....looks like the early Westeds and Keppler

Maybe we are going about this all wrong. Maybe the hero plus 3 that were ordered to match it all had the features of the Bantu. What we see that is in many of the other shots in Raiders... maybe a combination of those other 10 jackets.

Perhaps the original intention is that the hero had the lower yoke and the one we think of being correct is in fact wrong.

Just a thought.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:35 pm

Can someone please post a pic of Ford in a low yoke jacket in the movie........

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:21 pm

So low yoke and lined up arm seams and yoke seams were on the 'Original 'Hero' ..........just trying to get my head straight......

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:26 pm

Zendragon wrote:I had a thought. I think it has come up before.

The original hero, at least it sounds like it is the version that is seen at Bantu. It looks like or is similar to the one that _ examined that the G&B's were modeled after. It may look like the one that was auctioned off....looks like the early Westeds and Keppler

Maybe we are going about this all wrong. Maybe the hero plus 3 that were ordered to match it all had the features of the Bantu. What we see that is in many of the other shots in Raiders... maybe a combination of those other 10 jackets.

Perhaps the original intention is that the hero had the lower yoke and the one we think of being correct is in fact wrong.

Just a thought.

That's already been dismissed. The jacket we see in Bantu with the low yoke is from the second order per _ in posts above. The question now is which jacket we see in Bantu is having this optical illusion effect.
It was first the photos Holt posted now it's being said it's the 'sitting on the dock' still.

Low yoke equals either a Wilson's or one of the 'off' jackets from the second order and we only see those in Bantu and the Truck scene

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:29 pm

Hatch wrote:So low yoke and lined up arm seams and yoke seams were on the 'Original 'Hero' ..........just trying to get my head straight......

No that's the odd ball jackets in the second order. Otherwise the prototype 'Hero' has lost all significance compared to what is shown throughout the movie.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:31 pm

PLATON wrote:
Platon? I just don't know how to answer when you say things like that... It's like saying that maybe the guys at Mercedes don't know what the engine block is on my car, so I should listen to the guy who talks to himself in front of the Starbucks... What am I supposed to do with that?
I think you misunderstood me. I am saying that there is some other term for "yoke" in American english, which explains why TN was calling it otherwise. So I meant If you were to ask them about the "yoke", maybe they wouldn't be sure what exactly you talk about.

What was that other name TN was using for the yoke, anyone?

Platon where have you heard Tony call the 'yoke' something else? Did you talk to him or see someone else post it?

I've seen it referred to as 'upper back panel'

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:39 pm

Hatch wrote:Can someone please post a pic of Ford in a low yoke jacket in the movie........

This one

PLATON wrote:I sure you haven't noticed this.
Well, maybe some of you have, but I am not aware of anyone pointing it out before.

The jacket shown in the photo below has a remarkably low yoke in comparison with what we are used to when we refer to the movie.

Just notice where the pleat starts!!

and

Indiana Holt wrote:oh,and just to answer your question platon. I knew this allready.and I have pointed it out somewere before ;-)

here are some picture of the bantu wind scene.

low yolk. period!

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:47 pm

_ wrote: Location shots by Bantu = Original Hero...
On-Screen Bantu = Martin Grace's first Leather Concessionaires jacket from the mismatched order...
Hawaii Location = Martin Grace's Hero Replica from third order...

This doesn't add up.

If this is true, the jacket with HF sitting by the Bantu, well that's the original hero. We know that the Hawaii location isn't a Bantu type jacket... but you say that this is a hero replica, which means it should have looked like the Bantu.

Or did I miss something.

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:49 pm

You sure? Cause I gathered something different from _'s post. At this point, I think we are all unsure and lost and _ has got his feet up on his desk and he is laughing his butt off

RCSignals wrote:
Zendragon wrote:I had a thought. I think it has come up before.

The original hero, at least it sounds like it is the version that is seen at Bantu. It looks like or is similar to the one that _ examined that the G&B's were modeled after. It may look like the one that was auctioned off....looks like the early Westeds and Keppler

Maybe we are going about this all wrong. Maybe the hero plus 3 that were ordered to match it all had the features of the Bantu. What we see that is in many of the other shots in Raiders... maybe a combination of those other 10 jackets.

Perhaps the original intention is that the hero had the lower yoke and the one we think of being correct is in fact wrong.

Just a thought.
That's already been dismissed. The jacket we see in Bantu with the low yoke is from the second order per _ in posts above. The question now is which jacket we see in Bantu is having this optical illusion effect.
It was first the photos Holt posted now it's being said it's the 'sitting on the dock' still.

Low yoke equals either a Wilson's or one of the 'off' jackets from the second order and we only see those in Bantu and the Truck scene

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:53 pm

Zendragon wrote:
_ wrote: Location shots by Bantu = Original Hero...
On-Screen Bantu = Martin Grace's first Leather Concessionaires jacket from the mismatched order...
Hawaii Location = Martin Grace's Hero Replica from third order...

This doesn't add up.

If this is true, the jacket with HF sitting by the Bantu, well that's the original hero. We know that the Hawaii location isn't a Bantu type jacket... but you say that this is a hero replica, which means it should have looked like the Bantu.

Or did I miss something.

I think what you missed is that there was an 'on location' shooting for Bantu, and an 'on set' studio shooting. Different jackets were used in each.
The 'location' shoot was the Hero. The 'on set' studio was the 'second order' mismatch jacket.

_ is saying the low yoke we see in the jacket Ford wears sitting isn't really there, and the low yoke we see 'on screen' that Holt posted is there because it's a second order jacket.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:15 pm

I see this come up a lot:

the Wested of Today is not the same company as it was when Raiders was made, are we to believe that this company has been sending mis matched jackets all along? Did B&N not look the jackets over before providing them to the set?
What about LC mis matched jackets too?

moses · Post by **moses** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:17 pm

Well I'm lost. According to _ these two jackets are one and the same!!! (Sorry for stealing your pic, Platon)

Sure does look like the yoke placements are very different!

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:25 pm

I had a chat with Kelly and asked, "Is there one sequence where you could swear that Ford is wearing the original hero jacket?" The Imam's house... That's the hero. That is the jacket he's wearing in those location stills on the dock next to the Bantu. If you see something different - it is lighting and imagination...

That should stir the pot...

Well can't be the Imam's house jacket cause that had a high yoke.
See the photo above. What do you think?

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:30 pm

PLATON wrote:
I had a chat with Kelly and asked, "Is there one sequence where you could swear that Ford is wearing the original hero jacket?" The Imam's house... That's the hero. That is the jacket he's wearing in those location stills on the dock next to the Bantu. If you see something different - it is lighting and imagination...

That should stir the pot...
Well can't be the Imam's house jacket cause that had a high yoke.

Look at the 000 on the left for comparison.

What do you think?

I think _ is saying the Imam's house jacket is the Hero and should have a high yoke.
_ is saying the Bantu jacket we see on Ford sitting on the dock is the location shot therefore the 'Hero' and has a high yoke, we are just seeing things wrong.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:33 pm

Just glad to know that the 'original maker' has maintained their same level of 'quality control ' for 28 years........looks like Deb got about 4 usable jackets out of 14 ordered.....about same as 'spected ' jackets recently.........

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:37 pm

Here's a clearer shot of the yoke

I think _ is saying the Imam's house jacket is the Hero and should have a high yoke.
_ is saying the Bantu jacket we see on Ford sitting on the dock is the location shot therefore the 'Hero' and has a high yoke, we are just seeing things wrong.

Say we see the sitting at the dock photo wrong. But what about the 'Holt' screen shot. That's wrong too?
2 at 2 wrong?

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:40 pm

moses wrote:Well I'm lost. According to _ these two jackets are one and the same!!! (Sorry for stealing your pic, Platon)

I think we are dealing with photo distortion there. The screen shot is elongated in height and the inset is also off proportion from the original, shortened in height.

What is the point of that photo with the smaller one inset?

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:47 pm

Low yoke:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... yoke_1.jpg

High yoke:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... enYoke.jpg

Holt's "yolk"

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... ggyolk.jpg

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:04 pm

Man, I wish 5 o'clock would hurry up.......I need a drink....

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:11 pm

Hatch wrote:Man, I wish 5 o'clock would hurry up.......I need a drink....

Here yo go Doc

Bourbon

Post by **Holt** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:15 pm

moses wrote:Well I'm lost. According to _ these two jackets are one and the same!!! (Sorry for stealing your pic, Platon)

Sure does look like the yoke placements are very different!

yes these two jackets are the same.

what most people tend to forget when comparing photos with screen grabs is the camera angels and distances. when comparing photos and screen grabs like it is shown above is like comparing oranges to apples. wheter its yolk height or jacket length.. when you are going to compare you HAVE to have the right angels and distances, if you dont have that, you have nothing!

Keep that in mind 'experts'

Bullitt · Post by **Bullitt** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:18 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:I see this come up a lot:

the Wested of Today is not the same company as it was when Raiders was made, are we to believe that this company has been sending mis matched jackets all along? Did B&N not look the jackets over before providing them to the set?
What about LC mis matched jackets too?

I read somewhere Peter did not have any patterns for the Raiders jacket, because he knew what changes had to be made to the James Dean jacket he was gonna base it off. With LC coming along he may have seen the need to get patterns this time around.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:20 pm

After today's go around I feel like Indy in the burning Bar as he pulls himself up and says "whiskeeeeey"

gobo · Post by **gobo** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:21 pm

Actual eyewitness testimonies are no match from the wisdom one draws from scrutinizing grainy stills.
There's no way the Bantu Wind was built on set, it's too big. Just like the Temple of Doom, which was shot in an actual mine in India...

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:37 pm

Absolutely!

(You can hide behind the Plymouth now. I won't be leaving work for an hour or so.

)

Just to toss this out there....anyone ever hear of blue screen?

Regards! Michaelson

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:52 pm

I don't think those are the two jackets in question. The TN shouldn't even be in there, but I think someone grabbed that shot to use with the Bantu jacket for comparison.

Indiana Holt wrote:
moses wrote:Well I'm lost. According to _ these two jackets are one and the same!!! (Sorry for stealing your pic, Platon)

Sure does look like the yoke placements are very different!
yes these two jackets are the same.

what most people tend to forget when comparing photos with screen grabs is the camera angels and distances. when comparing photos and screen grabs like it is shown above is like comparing oranges to apples. wheter its yolk height or jacket length.. when you are going to compare you HAVE to have the right angels and distances, if you dont have that, you have nothing!

Keep that in mind 'experts'

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:53 pm

But we are talking about a jacket, which will fit on a set

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:57 pm

Hey Zendragon, moses borrowed that photo to show that the yoke seam placement of the Imam house jacket differs from the Bantu jacket. I amde that photo to use for some other matter which is off topic.

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:09 pm

PLATON wrote:Hey Zendragon, moses borrowed that photo to show that the yoke seam placement of the Imam house jacket differs from the Bantu jacket. I amde that photo to use for some other matter which is off topic.

Ok that's what I thought.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:22 pm

Zendragon wrote:I don't think those are the two jackets in question. The TN shouldn't even be in there, but I think someone grabbed that shot to use with the Bantu jacket for comparison.

Indiana Holt wrote:
yes these two jackets are the same.

what most people tend to forget when comparing photos with screen grabs is the camera angels and distances. when comparing photos and screen grabs like it is shown above is like comparing oranges to apples. wheter its yolk height or jacket length.. when you are going to compare you HAVE to have the right angels and distances, if you dont have that, you have nothing!

Keep that in mind 'experts'

As far as Bantu scenes go they are not the two jackets in question.

Holt is just answering that the two jackets in that photo are in fact the same as far as size of details goes. He's telling us the camera has had an effect.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:38 pm

gobo wrote:Actual eyewitness testimonies are no match from the wisdom one draws from scrutinizing grainy stills.

Isn't that the same conclusion the Warren Commission arrived at with regard to the Zapruder film?

- Mac

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:55 pm

_ - it seems we may have some common acquaintances. Just as way of confirmation if you don't mind - next time you're speaking to Spielberg - could I get you to ask him about the circumstances by which he met a guy called Robert Raymond, and the sorts of things they discussed.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:56 pm

Mac wrote:
gobo wrote:Actual eyewitness testimonies are no match from the wisdom one draws from scrutinizing grainy stills.
Isn't that the same conclusion the Warren Commission arrived at with regard to the Zapruder film?

- Mac

I think that's a whole other forum

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:25 pm

Well, since you asked _!

This quote has me a bit confused:

The third order (three hero replicas) was not received until a few days after the studio shooting began, and Pamela Mann (Script Supervisor) was confident they did the reshoot on day-one.

Is the reshoot you are referring to here, the Bantu Wind dock reshoot?

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:24 am

The Bantu re-shoot took place day one of the studio shooting not day one of filming? How long after the Bantu filming did studio shooting begin?
As far as jackets go, for the first few days all they had was the Hero and whatever jackets of the second order of 10 matched it the closest?
We don't see the low yoke Bantu again until the truck scenes.

How's that for questions

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:35 am

That IS true, but without ANY notice? Maybe 24?

Whole sets must be designed and built, normally with weeks of prep. Especially when you're building a whole side of a ship with deck and bridge. And this is in England, with strict Union rules. No weird / extended hours without warning.

Even if it could be done, like get dozens of people in to get the work done in that time; it would cost big dollars, which sorts of defeats the point, doesn't it? Where could you hide all of those construction wages, additional variations to suppliers' engagements and so on in a balance sheet? Makes the argument of the giveaway being a piece of camera kit a bit miniscule doesn't it?

And how do the rust stains on the ship etc. match perfectly from what you say is the original location shoot to what you say is the studio?

Whew. Time for a glass of Benriach.