Australian Model HJ-pics

[mark seven]

Spotted this Vintage 'Australian model' HJ(new bond street) on ebay(listing has ended),first one I've seen..

[DR Ulloa]

Yup, I can see how that greatly influenced the Raiders hat. Seems to be really stovepiped.

Dave

[Fedora]

And there is 3M$ telescope crown!!! Save this pic 3M. It gives credence to your theory. Fedora

[DR Ulloa]

Just becuase the Australian model has a telescoping crown doesn't mean the Raiders hat had one, though. I don't remember the Raiders hat having air holes. How'd the work around that?

Dave

[3thoubucks]

Fedora reported after viewing a new fan interview with DNL, that she requested the air vents be left out. Here are my observation on a telescoped Raiders hat Dr. http://www.roadrecumbent.com/pagethree.html INCREDIBLE find mark seven! I've seen a couple wool HJ's on ebay that have a typical Aussi military slouch ribbon on them. It could have been an optional band on your hat, maybe? This one is 38 New Bond St.

[Fedora]

IF, just IF, Swales took that hat with the holes, and that crown was a 6 incher, he could have reblocked it, shortened up the crown(D.L. sort of thought they did), this would move the rivets down, so they were under the ribbon,and not visible. Or, perhaps the vents were like you see on other Aussie safari hats, and are just a pattern of little holes, with no metal. If so, those could be moved down by the reblock, and covered up by the ribbon. Perhaps the prototype was actually used in the film at some point. Presents alot of possibilities and adds to the mystque surrounding this custom made fedora. We have seen what some fiddling with an AB factory hats can look like with the elastic strap creating remarkable reverse taper. Who know whate D.L. did to those hats to make them look like a well worn friend! Fedora

[Dutch_jones]

IF they did have the vents, wouldn't Screenused be able to see them if he looked behind the sweat?

[gwyddion]

Yes, but these would only be on the prototype hat, not nescesarily his hat. Besides, i have the distinct feeling he wouldn't tell us anyway.

Regards, Geert

[DR Ulloa]

Fedora reported after viewing a new fan interview with DNL, that she requested the air vents be left out. Here are my observation on a telescoped Raiders hat Dr. http://www.roadrecumbent.com/pagethree.html INCREDIBLE find mark seven! I've seen a couple wool HJ's on ebay that have a typical Aussi military slouch ribbon on them. It could have been an optional band on your hat, maybe? (This one is 38 New Bond, I couldnt save a pic of the top of the hat because of some kind of intentional block) (I don't know the London adress of this wool HJ, but this has the same ribbon as the first one.

Yeah, I've seen that page, 3K$. I think it is a very good observation. I don't think the Raiders hat, even the prototype, had a telescoping crown, though. To me, those little creases in the hat are consistant with sitting on and crushing the hat. That is what it looks like to me.

I experimented with a reblock on my Keppler before I sold it. It had tapered and I wanted it to look like a Raiders hat before I sold it. I pulled out the liner and just filled the inside of the hat with water. I completely soaked the crown and then pulled it over a long strip of cardboard that had come in the box one of my hats had been shipped in. It didn't have a top at all, much less any dome, so I guess it was similar to one of your 360 blocks (even more so as I fitted the cardboard to my head exactly). Once I took the hat off, it left a neat little crease around certain parts of the hat that somewhat resemble those pics on your page. Just a thought.

Dave

[3thoubucks]

All I know for SHURE, Dr.Ulloa, is this is the first glimpse of anything that comes close to being a "Herbert Johnson Australian model", we've ever seen!! .....

[DR Ulloa]

That is for sure!

I have no doubt in my mind that THAT is what Deb Noodleman-Landis was looking at when she decided what to go with. This hat just makes sense. This truly is a historic find. This...this IS history!

Dave

[mark seven]

I didn't realise it was an important find! ,I just thought it was cool to see an Australian model HJ..I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy it now! -It was 2 sizes too big for me but I would love to have popped the crown on that hat.

[Fedora]

All I know for SHURE, Dr.Ulloa, is this is the first glimpse of anything that comes close to being a "Herbert Johnson Australian model", we've ever seen!! .....

I didn't realise it was an important find! ,I just thought it was cool to see an Australian model HJ..I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy it now! -It was 2 sizes too big for me but I would love to have popped the crown on that hat.
I didn't realise it was an important find! ,I just thought it was cool to see an Australian model HJ..I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy it now! -It was 2 sizes too big for me but I would love to have popped the crown on that hat.

Yep, it sure is the first HJ Aussie hat we have seen, and now we know ole D.L. was not confused in her thinking about what she used as the prototype. They probably had these same Aussie hats with different hatbands on them as well. At least at one time.

And Mark, this is a great historical find my friend! The smoking gun. I can now just envision Mr. Swales thinking, "ok, this is a straight crowned hat, so which block would best suit her?" And he grabbed a straighter block to use from what he had. Perhaps it was the old Poet block, but perhaps it was not! But when the next film came up, he was ready, with a factory Poet that would fit the bill, although it may not have been exactly identical to what he used when he custom made the Raider fedora. Finding out from D. L. that she had her hat custom made was the missing link, to me. And it finally explained why the hats changed from Indy 1 to Indy 2. and then another change to Indy 3. Probably changed hat suppliers between Indy 2 and Indy 3, which accounts for the difference in all 3 film hats. Throw in Indy 4 and you now have 4 different fedoras, with only the first and the last being custom made. Good bookends. Fedora

[3thoubucks]

Note the felt thickness. Raiders guage. I was looking at Screenused's hat today, and noticed a fairly wide, lighter colored ring. Possibly, the top of a telescope like mark seven's? I telescope my hats with a tight fold like this- (Take a quick look at back at Mark seven's telescope and note how NOT tight the "fold" is.) My tight fold makes an outward facing bump on the crown. The problem is, the lower "telescope line" on the Raiders hat is an inward crease! I was thinking this was another strange quality of the Raiders felt, or they pushed the bump in with a butter knife or something. But mark seven's is not tight but very round, and here's what I think might be happening when the crown gets popped up for a Raiders hat. .

[Fedora]

Since we have old HJs here, this is the list in chrono order of the places they resided.

38 New Bond St.
13 Old Burlington St.
30 New Bond St.
10 Old Bond St.
54 Saint James St.

[DR Ulloa]

Note the felt thickness. Raiders guage. I was looking at Screenused's hat today, and noticed a fairly wide, lighter colored ring. Possibly, the top of a telescope like mark seven's? I telescope my hats with a tight fold like this- (Take a quick look at back at Mark seven's telescope and note how NOT tight the "fold" is.) My tight fold makes an outward facing bump on the crown. The problem is, the lower "telescope line" on the Raiders hat is an inward crease! I was thinking this was another strange quality of the Raiders felt, or they pushed the bump in with a butter knife or something. But mark seven's is not tight but very round, and here's what I think might be happening when the crown gets popped up for a Raiders hat. .

I know lines like that, on the two pics of the Raiders hat, can show up when a hat isn't blocked right...or is it pounced right? I do know that those lines can show up during hat making and before the hat is creased. Also, friction between the felt and another object can sometimes cause these lines. They are consistant with a telescope crease, though.

Dave