Wested sizing for beginners

[gwyddion]

If you want a size 44 jacket for example, which should measure 24 inches across the chest when its layed flat, to
actually come out to 24 inches across when its finished, you have to cut the pattern two extra inches bigger to
allow for the material to be taken up when you fold the seams over and put on the outer finish stitching.

OK, that sounds plausible as a definition for seam allowance, but those extra inches wouldn't be measurable when you measure pit to pit. I suspect Gemma may have been mixing things up a little.

Thats quite normal according to Peter

Regards, Geert

[FLATHEAD]

The standard Wested should have 4 inches of movement room in each tagged size. If the jacket you are
refering to has 6 inches, then it was probably just tagged wrong. It can happen with OTR jackets.

Wested jackets are not cut one size too big. They are cut to what is basically a standard military cut, which is the
4 inches above tagged size.

No, that's wrong, I talked to Gemma on the phone and she told me they cut them SIX inches oversize, so a jacket tagged 40 would correctly measure 23 pit to pit - 46. We cut them baggy, she said. And if I wanted just 4 inches over I'd need to go down a size. That's what she said, and it fits with the measurements of my jacket.

Does that apply to their " '80s cut" ? six inches is a lot of oversize

All the 80's cut jackets I have seen, or that have been posted about have all had about a two inch
tapper to them from the chest to the waist.

That was the idea behind the 80's cut. That it was an even more form fitting jacket than a regular.

In the almost 8 years I have been a memeber of this club, I have never personally seen a regular cut Wested with 6 inches
of movement room over the tagged size.

I think if you have one, then its either an anomaly or its been tagged wrong by mistake.

As Peter said, Gemma can get her info a bit reversed sometimes.

I have an old e-mail from Peter himself back in 2002 when I ordered my first Wested, and I asked about
sizing.

He stated that they use a standard military cut for their regular sized jackets, which was 4 inches above
tagged size.

If you go to the top of this site, and put the words "jacket measurements" in the search function, you will
come up with literally hundreds of posts where people posted the actual measurements of their
jackets.

In all but a handful of them, the standard Wested regular cut is 4 inches over tagged size.

I have personally had three Wested's, and I have handled about 10 more thru friends and
family. And not a single one of them was 6 inches over tagged size. They were all 4 inches.

Has Wested changed their patterns? I doubt it. That would entale the recreation of every
single pattern, template, guide and sewing maching setup they have. That is no small undertaking,
and would cause all kinds of delays and backups.

Instead of talking to Gemma, ask to talk to Peter instead, or e-mail him directly to find
out for sure.

Ask Holt about this. He has had so many Wested's pass thru his hands that he can
tell you that 6 inches over tagged size is not normal for a regular size.

Flathead

[Holt]

What I can tell you all is that this myth about the 80's cut with the 2'' of chest room is made up. There is no such thing.

The '80's cut' is a regular cut chest and it should have 4'' of room not 6''. The only thing that is more narrow on the '80's cut' is the waist, becasue its tapered.

Regular/standard cut jackets is full cut all the way. No tapering.

[FLATHEAD]

You've really gotta go off measurements of the jacket, not just yourself. I wouldn't trust the whole chest measurement plus movement room for it to look exactly right. It's a guide at best, esp. when Wested's room for movement varies from jacket to jacket and body part to body part!

This is very well put.

The standard military cut came out of WWII. There are actual documents somewhere on the Eastman Leather
website of an actual contract that states just how an A-2 leather jacket should be made.

It states the 4 inches of movement room, as well as sleeve length details, back length details, and most of
all the color the leather should be when the jacket has been tanned and finished.

And if you look at most pictures of WWII AAF personel with their A-2's on, no two of them look alike!!

Not only does the color vary from a dark seal brown to a nice russet red, but you see skinny guys with
jackets that are too big for them, bigger guys with sleeves that are easily two inches too short, or tall
guys with jacket bodies that are actually above their waist line.

No two man made items will ever be exactly the same. Patterns and templates and specifications are
put into place as a guide to follow.

No two people will ever cut the same size patters exactly the same. No two will sew them together in
the same way. And no two will ever create identical jackets.

Even one person, using the same techniques can't create two jackets exactly the same. You would
need a machine or a computer to do that. And then all you will have are mall jackets with no character.

Look at cars for another example. You can have cars coming down an assembly line all on the same
day, and one can be nothing but problems from day one, and another one can be problem free for
over 100,000 miles. Why?

Its the mysteries of the universe.

Flathead

[FLATHEAD]

What I can tell you all is that this myth about the 80's cut with the 2'' of chest room is made up. There is no such thing.

The '80's cut' is a regular cut chest and it should have 4'' of room not 6''. The only thing that is more narrow on the '80's cut' is the waist, becasue its tapered.

Regular/standard cut jackets is full cut all the way. No tapering.

I know it has a tapper to it. If you go thru the site, you can find this info in abundance.

Most military clothing items have a standard tapper of 6 inches from the chest to the waist.

For example if you have a shirt with a 44 inch chest measurement, the waist should be 38 inches.
This is what makes this type of clothing so form fitting. There is not much room for a gut.

Most modern clothing has either the four inch or even a two inch tapper to it.

Thats why alot of reinactors of WWII battles can't fit in standard military clothing. They are
too fat! Most of us are not built like a 20 year old WWII skinny guy. If they do try to fit in
those clothes, they look like stuffed sausages.

Jerry of the "What Price Glory" website has alot about this posted on his site. He is one of
the best sources for anything to do with military style clothing, how its made, or how it should
or should not fit.

So even the 80's fit is really not that bad when you compare it to what real clothing back in the
time these movies portray actually fit like.

Flathead

[Ford]

I have an old e-mail from Peter himself back in 2002 when I ordered my first Wested, and I asked about
sizing.

He stated that they use a standard military cut for their regular sized jackets, which was 4 inches above
tagged size.

OK, but that was back in 2002.

Anyway, all I do know is

1- the jacket I had was a 42 and measured 24 across (unless you tightened the side straps in which case it measure 23.5 across)

2) In an email to me Gemma wrote:"Many thanks for your email regarding your order. The jacket you have recieved is correct this will measure between 4-6 inchs larger. This is the same for all the jackets."

3) When I later asked Gemma to measure a size 40 jacket for me she said it was 23 across.

Which is good enough for me.

Perhaps a mislabeled batch came in from India, or the size 42 goats put on a couple of extra inches after breaking into the owner's shack one night and eating all his waffles.

But until someone else from Wested states something different - in which case my jacket was mislabeled which opens a whole different can of issues - I'm going with 6 inches over size...

So you can put that in your fedora and bash it

[Michaelson]

Just to add to the confusion (carrying it over from another thread I buggered up yesterday ), in remeasuring my jackets (G&B, Wested and Wings), all my jackets measure 24 inches across the back AND front from pit to pit and are marked size 44, so WHO knows?

Regards! Michaelson

[Kt Templar]

2) In an email to me Gemma wrote:"Many thanks for your email regarding your order. The jacket you have recieved is correct this will measure between 4-6 inchs larger. This is the same for all the jackets."

She says it very clearly there: Between four to six.

[FLATHEAD]

Just to add to the confusion (carrying it over from another thread I buggered up yesterday ), in remeasuring my jackets (G&B, Wested and Wings), all my jackets measure 24 inches across the back AND front from pit to pit and are marked size 44, so WHO knows?

Regards! Michaelson

Was the Wings a size large or medium? Since Wings only offers their Indy Style jackets in sizes
S, M, L, XL ext, which size did you measure?

My Wings Old cow is a size large, and it measures 25 inches pit to pit. So does my brothers size
large.

I had a medium at one time that measured 23 inches pit to pit, which would be about right.

I think the ozone hole is shrinking my clothes though! As I get older, I seem to need clothes that
are larger and larger sizes.

I know it can't be the pasta and beer...

Flathead

[FLATHEAD]

I have an old e-mail from Peter himself back in 2002 when I ordered my first Wested, and I asked about
sizing.

He stated that they use a standard military cut for their regular sized jackets, which was 4 inches above
tagged size.

OK, but that was back in 2002.

Anyway, all I do know is

1- the jacket I had was a 42 and measured 24 across (unless you tightened the side straps in which case it measure 23.5 across)

2) In an email to me Gemma wrote:"Many thanks for your email regarding your order. The jacket you have recieved is correct this will measure between 4-6 inchs larger. This is the same for all the jackets."

3) When I later asked Gemma to measure a size 40 jacket for me she said it was 23 across.

Which is good enough for me.

Perhaps a mislabeled batch came in from India, or the size 42 goats put on a couple of extra inches after breaking into the owner's shack one night and eating all his waffles.

But until someone else from Wested states something different - in which case my jacket was mislabeled which opens a whole different can of issues - I'm going with 6 inches over size...

So you can put that in your fedora and bash it

Which is odd since she said this to you a few weeks ago:

did email them, then called for clarification, and got a bit confused as to the sizing which is why I thought I'd ask here. First I emailed and asked the pit to pit measurement of a size 40 and was told:


Quote:
I have measured the ROLA size 40 jacket as you have requested the chest measures between 22-23 inches


which all sounded a bit 'quantum' to me. When I asked what the 'between 22-23 inches' meant I was told it measured 22, unless it's tightened then it measures 23.

At 22 inches, thats just about right for a size 40 like she said.

If they are making their jackets 4 to 6 inches bigger, that means a variation of as much as 4 inches total
around the chest for each size.

There is no way anyone would be able to pin down a size. You could get a size 42 thats bigger than a size
44!

No wonder you are having problems. I would still talk to Peter himself. He is the only one who can
straighten this out for you.

Flathead

[Michaelson]

I had a medium at one time that measured 23 inches pit to pit, which would be about right.

I think the ozone hole is shrinking my clothes though! As I get older, I seem to need clothes that
are larger and larger sizes.

I know it can't be the pasta and beer...

Flathead

The one I measured is a 'large', but seems to err to the smaller side of things, as like you, other 'Wings' jackets I've had in medium were in the 23 " range. I've had this jacket for a while, and it being worn in snow and rain over the years, there could have been a little shrinkage over that period of time, but that's just conjecture on my part. It fits and feels exactly like my G&B 44T and my Wested 44.

I agree with you...it CAN'T have anything to do with my diet and lack of exercise either!

Regards! Michaelson

[FLATHEAD]

it CAN'T have anything to do with my diet and lack of exercise either!

Regards! Michaelson

Exercise? I heard of this before. I think its when I lift 16 oz pints of Guiness right?

Flathead

[Michaelson]

It's a new buzz word I hear the younger folks toss around from time to time. Not sure how it works, but sounds nice in theory....

Regards! Michaelson

[Kt Templar]

I've patented a system where all the wasted energy on exercise machines, jumping up and down in aerobic lessons and heat given off etc is harnessed and converted to electricity and added back to the national electricity grid.

I'm going to be rich!

[Michaelson]

Will you be selling stock!?

Regards! Michaelson

[Ford]

Just to add to the confusion (carrying it over from another thread I buggered up yesterday ), in remeasuring my jackets (G&B, Wested and Wings), all my jackets measure 24 inches across the back AND front from pit to pit and are marked size 44, so WHO knows?

Ach, I've given up on Wested... the jacket's sold, presumably a perfect fit for someone who's shoulders exist in two neighboring time zones, and I'm back to what passes for normal life and contemplating higher things, like a hat...

So a little less and a little more ...and, perhaps, in some of the quieter moments, pondering idly why the sound is just ever so slightly out of sync on my copy of Touch of Evil

Other than that, what I have left to say about Wested jacket sizes is

[Kt Templar]

I kinda have the same feeling about Wings sizes.

40 in a Wested, XS in a Wings.... go figure!

You just have to find the size that fits you.

[JC1972]

Just to add to the confusion (carrying it over from another thread I buggered up yesterday ), in remeasuring my jackets (G&B, Wested and Wings), all my jackets measure 24 inches across the back AND front from pit to pit and are marked size 44, so WHO knows?

Ach, I've given up on Wested... the jacket's sold, presumably a perfect fit for someone who's shoulders exist in two neighboring time zones, and I'm back to what passes for normal life and contemplating higher things, like a hat...

So a little less and a little more ...and, perhaps, in some of the quieter moments, pondering idly why the sound is just ever so slightly out of sync on my copy of Touch of Evil

Other than that, what I have left to say about Wested jacket sizes is

Ford,
Don't give up on Wested yet. I thought I'd never get one, let alone think of getting a 2nd. I had a G&B, which I just sold, and I thought that was the best Indy jacket I could get for the money. However its not custom and does not fit as well as a custom. After I just got my Wested, there were some problems with it but that hasn't stopped me from thinking of getting a 2nd though. Where else can you get a custom made Indy jacket for $300? Good luck with your search!

[Ford]

You just have to find the size that fits you.

Yes but I only have a limited lifespan I hate buying jackets then having to send them back, or worse keeping them for a bit then having to sell them at a loss. It's an expensive hobby with nothing to show for it other than a growing collection of Post Office receipts.

Ford,
Don't give up on Wested yet. I thought I'd never get one, let alone think of getting a 2nd. I had a G&B, which I just sold, and I thought that was the best Indy jacket I could get for the money. However its not custom and does not fit as well as a custom. After I just got my Wested, there were some problems with it but that hasn't stopped me from thinking of getting a 2nd though. Where else can you get a custom made Indy jacket for $300? Good luck with your search!

I'd never order a custom from Wested now, not if they can't even tell me the sizes of their off the rack stuff. They'd be a nightmare to deal with. Plus, for the cost of a Wested custom I'd probably be better spending a bit more and getting a G&B, something that would really last - also, I imagine they would be able to give straightforward answers to sizing questions.

[Kevin Anderson]

Gibson and Barnes' service is fantastic Ford. They're a very professional outfit.
I own an Expedition jacket. I called early one morning looking for some advice on sizing, and was so impressed
with the knowledge of the very first person who answered the phone, that I ordered a jacket then and there, over the
phone. It was very simple. I received exactly what I ordered, and quickly, too. A beautiful and very well built jacket.
It's not a custom fit though, obviously, but when a company knows their product so well, there's no nasty surprises when
it arrives. Give them a call when you can. If you're not happy with the measurements of their sizes, you don't order one.
But if you do, at least you can rest assured that you'll get what you order. and what you get will be great.
It's all about consistancy. My Expedition is as good as any Expedition. Unlike my Wested jackets, I don't look at pics of others and
wish my pockets looked like that, or wish my collar was like that. They're all madethe same, and to a very high standard.
No rolling the dice with G&B. I hate gambling!

[RCSignals]

I kinda have the same feeling about Wings sizes.

40 in a Wested, XS in a Wings.... go figure!

You just have to find the size that fits you.

Yes, the wings size categories are skewed to the very large end of the spectrum.

For a decent fit you have to match your size to the upper end of the category (category as in XS, S, M, L, XL, etc) range, if you match to the lower the jacket will pretty much always be 3 or 4 sizes too big. You really can't rely on the ranges matching anything you are used to.