Adventurebilt Review and Comparison ( NEW INFO )

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:04 am

With this post, I hope to give a personal illustrative review and comparison. I will show my new ( to me ) Adventurebilt, Christys' Adventurer, an Akubra Federation IV, and two vintage hats: a Stetson Open Road and a Stetson Playboy. Unfortunately, during the course of taking pictures, I did not have the presesnce of mind to do a modern Stetson. These are my personal observations, which I can now make having these hats in hand. I don't intend necessarily to state that one hat makes a better Indy hat than another, as I still believe that that is a matter of personal taste, and I've never been one to try and give somebody their opinion.
I'd first like to give thanks to the member who enabled me to come into possession of my Adventurebilt ( you know who you are ). It is a bittersweet venture in that I know my benifit came from his parting with an item that, given his 'druthers, he'd just as soon not given up. Thanks again.
I'll try to be as comprehensive as possible in my presentation and hope that everything makes sense. First up, here's a pic of the three Indy style hats, taken with flash. Left to right, they are the Christys' Adventurer in sable, the Federation IV, and the AB:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2727.jpg

And here are the vintage. Open Road on top, then the Playboy:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2756.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2763.jpg

The Adventurebilt has a date of February 2008 under the sweat band. The first thing I noticed about this hat is the remarkable juxtoposition of the purported toughness and the luxurious look and feel of the pure beaver body. Now, I only say "purported" because I haven't had the want or the opportunity to put it through the hoops yet. It's not meant to be a dig. I really like the way the nap has an almost irridescent quality - the colors varying slightly where you handle it after brushing. It's ridiculously soft to the touch, and it is clear that care and effort went into the finish. The second immediately noticible thing is the ribbon. Again, the subtle nature of the edge of the ribbon seeming to change colors at different angles. I have no other hat, out of about twenty or so, that look like it or share it's qualities. Unfortunately, this detail does not show up in pictures. However, it was one of the first things I noticed.
I somehow imagined that the AB would weigh more or just have noticibly more...mass than my other hats. It does not, at least in a casual sense ( I didn't put it on a scale ). But let's move on to some more pictures. Let's look at one of everybody's favorite subjects; "floppiness". These pictures were taken by simply sticking my finger out and setting the brim down on my finger. First is the Christys':

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2731.jpg

This is arguably one of the Christys' most appealing points, in terms of making a good Raiders hat; the way the felt reacts to outside influence. It would seem it is also one of it's greatest detractions, as I have gathered that this floppiness is due in part to a lack of density which leads to later problems, particularly in the crown. This all falls into the investment:payoff ratio argument.
Next up, the Akubra Federation:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2735.jpg

The Federation was the least flexible of the hats, though admittedly I've done little to soften it beyond normal wear.

The Adventurebilt:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2750.jpg

And finally, the two vintage. The first is the Open Road, the second the Playboy:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2761.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2764.jpg

Next up, here are some interior details. I'll do all the pictures, then my personal observations. First up, the Adventurebilt:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2751.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2752.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2754.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2755.jpg

Next, the Federation:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2738.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2739.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2741.jpg

Christys' Adventurer:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2728.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2729.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2730.jpg

And the Open Road ( the Playboy has no liner, so I left it out of this phase ) :

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2757.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2758.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2759.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2760.jpg

My observations as to the above pictures:
It seems clear that the hat that the Adventurebilt has the most in common with is the Open Road ( sewn in liner, etc... ). However, I have to be honest and say that the sweatband, apart from the anecdotal details, is the biggest letdown of the Adventurebilt. I just don't care for it. It's not bad, but it just doesn't seem to keep up with the rest of the hat. Again, this hat was produced a year ago, so things may be diffeent now. I don't know. My personal favorite is the Federation - a "regular" by the way. The Christys' does not hold up so well in this catagory. It just looks unfinished - simple as that. Both the Christys' and Federation liners are glued in. The liners themselves seem of equal quality.

Here now are some outside detail shots of each hat; the stitching under the ribbon, the bows, etc... For the vintage comparison on this one, I used the Playboy bow detail, as the Open Road is a thin ribbon, and thus a bad example to hold against the others. The Open Road shows the stitching under the ribbon.

Christys' Adventurer:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2733.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2734.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2732.jpg

Akubra Federation IV:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2737.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2736.jpg

Adventurebilt - I'll be darned if I just realized I didn't do any pics under the ribbon on the AB. Sorry***. Here's a bow detail, though:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2749.jpg

Playboy:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2766.jpg

Open Road:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2762.jpg

Great bow work on the AB. Not so much just a matter of screen accuracy, but a really nice bit of workmanship when held up to the factory bows. Not to mention the tightness and tacking of the ribbon.
The Christys' -

The Federation - nicer, but not by a heck of a lot

Finally, here are some shots of each hat from various angles, beginning with the Christys':

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2723.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2724.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2725.jpg

The Federation:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2742.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2743.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2744.jpg

and the Adventurebilt:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2745.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2746.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2747.jpg

I realize the Federation is kind of an "apples and oranges" thing, but it's my best rendition of a KOTCS, and I think it's best for the block shape ( which I really like, by the way ). Also, as to the Christys'. while I think I did a pretty good job, I'm no master hat shaper like Erri or some of the other members. The Adventurer was my second attempt at an Indy style hat, and it's coming up on a year old. The Adventurebilt came creased from it's previous owner.

Adventurebilt: I have to say, FINE, FINE job Mr. Delk. It's just a really neat hat. I can't imagine waiting a year for it, as some have ( and others still are ), but it is remarkable. The modern factory made hats are simply in a different, lesser league. While only time will tell, at this point I would say that your Adventurebilt is certainly at least on par with the older hats I've shown here. I believe that anyone who has this hat or is waiting for one is getting their moneys worth. Again, I have to say that the wait would put me over, but seems to be part of the mystique, at this point - though I know that's not part of the design. Not only are owners of this hat getting an Indy hat that suits the popular perception, but it's clearly, clearly a quality item. Mr. Delk, the work that you've put into these ( this ) hat shows, and I'm duely impressed. Thank you.

As to the other hats, I think I've been fair. I still like the Christys' and stand behind everything I've said on the "Reborn" thread. It's a decent $100 investment, and it does "Raiders" things that none of the others do. If I can get a Raiders look out of it, then it should just be a matter of time and effort for anyone. The detractions are very real though, and the Christys' doesn' hold a candle to the vintage hats. It's an excellent costume hat that can take a bit of abuse, and I think it has a place in this community. The Federation is a great hat, and THE hat for people who want an Adventurebilt proxy while they wait, or are unable to afford an Adventurebilt.

***I'll try to edit this later

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:26 am

Great post and photos, one of the best I think I've seen recently. Those shots make the other two hats look like mere costume pieces compared to the Adventurebilt. The color and quality of the felt really shows through in the comparisons. Thanks.

Rex

Bullitt · Post by **Bullitt** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:38 am

That was a good read, with great pics. I agree with bigrex, that you can really see the quality and color differences in the photos provided.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:55 am

I agree with what you say about the AB's sweatband - I don't really care for it either. Before he got the KCS job, Steve used to use roan sweatbands, which were REALLY nice (I've got one with this type), but apparently Bernie wanted a different type of sweat, Steve accommodated him, and decided to stick with it for the purposes of KCS screen accuracy. Personally, I don't care for it as much as the roan. -M

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:45 am

Interesting post. Thanks for doing so! I must admit, my favorite in terms of color for the "Indy" hats.. would be the Federation. I don't say it's more SA to me, I just like the color.

The sewn in liner of the AB is nice. My Keppler's liner looks as if it was slopped in at the last minute, sloppy cut, massive glue spot and it barely goes past the sweatband.

Again, thanks Kiltie, this was an interesting thread!

Randy

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:00 am

Good review. The things most people don't get that you pointed out very well is you really need to see the AB of Steve's to see some of the great quality's . The fantastic pounce job, the ribbon, the stitching. just to name a couple.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:50 pm

Update:

I'll revisit this post once in a while as the Adventurebilt "becomes mine". I wore it all day yesterday for the first time at any length, and I've had it on for about two hours today doing light work ( watering the lawn, cleaning house, etc... ) just generally trying to get it to conform to my head by getting a little sweat in the sweatband. Today has been the first warmer day after a bit of a cool snap ( nighttime 40s and daytime 50s ), so it's been a little easier to get a little something going by wearing a sweatshirt while doing minor tasks.

One thing I've noticed, due I suppose to the surface:mass ratio in the finer felt is this thing is a fuzz magnet. It's likely also noticable because of the darker color, but it seems to like the bits of stuff in the air. Secondly, it's taking to my head pretty well. It started off about a 1/2cm to 3/4cm smaller than ideal, so it put it on a jack over night Saturday and wore it all day Sunday. I put it back on the jack last night and put it on my head, as I said, about two hours ago. It fit much better today, and I expect by weeks' end, if I'm very patient, it should be a perfect fit. I'm being veeeeeery careful with the upsizing so's not to lose the original crown shape and so far, so good. I'm reluctant, in fact, to call it up-sizing, but rather making it a long oval. If it all pans out, day after tomorrow I'll do on the head shots.

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:52 pm

Thanks for this thread Kiltie. Lots of good information here.

Can't wait to the nogging pics of the AB in action.

Cheers!

Dan

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:01 pm

theinterchange wrote:I must admit, my favorite in terms of color for the "Indy" hats.. would be the Federation.

I really have to disagree - I think the AB has a far richer color to it, especially when it's been used and has faded a little bit. I love the color. But to each his own, I guess. -M

Indy35 · Post by **Indy35** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:34 pm

Nice post! I've kept away from christies hats and this post reaffirms my stand. I never liked the bow and the strength of the hat was always a concern. Im sorry but that bow is just God awful.

I like the Federation IV. I like the block shape and the durability of the hat.

Now having never held an AB, i can tell you that the color of the AB is perfect in those pics. I've never cared for the color of the Fed IV, too dark, almost a dark chocolate color. Its nice, but off for an Indy hat. The shape of the Fed IV and the AB are pretty close when bashed carefully and expertly. This i believe was the goal that Steve and Marc had when they worked with Hatsdirect for the Fed IV. The bow work on the AB is by and far the best, and thats not even enough of an emphasis, its phenomenal.

As far as the classics go, they're almost always top notch, if they were top notch back then. Just like today, there were good quality hats and cheapo's.

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:04 pm

Mulceber wrote:
theinterchange wrote:I must admit, my favorite in terms of color for the "Indy" hats.. would be the Federation.
I really have to disagree - I think the AB has a far richer color to it, especially when it's been used and has faded a little bit. I love the color. But to each his own, I guess. -M

Well, I wasn't refering to sa, I like the darkness of the Federation felt color. At least on my Deluxe.

I have nothing against the AB color, just to be clear.. I love the color of most I've seen.. online. Need to check one out in person!

Randy

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:40 pm

Indy35 wrote:Nice post! I've kept away from christies hats and this post reaffirms my stand. I never liked the bow and the strength of the hat was always a concern. Im sorry but that bow is just God awful.

Yeah, the bow is pretty not too special, but something fishy is up with the Federations I've seen of late, as far as the ribbon goes. As in, they're looking a little...inconsistant. Hopefully it's just a particular run, but it'd be kind of a drag if Akubra is going over to the Darkside and sacrificing quality for mass production sales.
Also, while the Christys' does appear to be the lesser of the hats shown, it's not the worst thing ever, in the history of hats. Keep in mind what it's made for, and the fact that there are owners who've shown on this forum that it will stand up to the elements to a degree and can survive a reblock. It does do some cool stuff.
I'm reminded of the line in Ferris Beuller's Day Off when he speaks to the camera about the Ferrari. I'm paraphrasing, but he says: "I do recommend you pick one up, if you have the means."
This can definately be said about the Adventurebilt. However, not everyone has the means or the inclination. I got lucky with timing and blessed with my financial situation. The Christys' is a good alternative to the city kids who can't get their AB on

, and all the better if you wanna give a shot at a little ribbon project

.
Anywho... still got the AB on my head. Feeling pretty good, and I do have to admit I feel like a stuck-up little girl checking myself out every time I pass a mirror. The ribbon itself, not just the bow, but the ribbon that was sourced, is really neat-o.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:49 pm

I do have to admit I feel like a stuck-up little girl checking myself out every time I pass a mirror.

Get used to it. I think most people who wear fedoras (myself included) suffer from that same tendency.

-M

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:51 pm

That AB ribbon IS pretty darn cool.

Randy

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:28 am

I tried to reply yesterday but for some reason it wasn't posting it, sorry I'm a bit shorter in replying this time. All I have to say is... Great review kiltie, and thanks for the compliments (although I don't think I'm worthy of the title of Master Hat Shaper yet! lol). I agree with Oak, you indeed have to have (or see) one Adventurebuilt to appreaciate its craftmanship quality.
It was a very comprehensive review of your hats, how patient you were my friend!

jkdbuck76 · Post by **jkdbuck76** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:35 pm

This should thread should be a contender for "Thread of the Year."

Inbanana · Post by **Inbanana** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:28 pm

Thanks for the review, I picked up a Christy's while waiting for an AB and have been pretty happy with it, especially the floppiness and color of the felt... which actually I was beginning to worry was a shade too dark, but looking at your comparison photos with the flash on, I'm not too worried about it anymore. While waiting for the AB, I really don't have anything to compare it to, except maybe the Stetson I had from the 80s that felt like it was made out of some kind of really dense cardboard. It was like if they used that hat in this scene:

the spike would have put a hole through the brim before the felt even began to bend...

Indy35 · Post by **Indy35** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:33 pm

Inbanana wrote:Thanks for the review, I picked up a Christy's while waiting for an AB and have been pretty happy with it, especially the floppiness and color of the felt... which actually I was beginning to worry was a shade too dark, but looking at your comparison photos with the flash on, I'm not too worried about it anymore. While waiting for the AB, I really don't have anything to compare it to, except maybe the Stetson I had from the 80s that felt like it was made out of some kind of really dense cardboard. It was like if they used that hat in this scene:
the spike would have put a hole through the brim before the felt even began to bend...

Imagine what would have happened when wearing a Peter Bros. it would have broken his neck! The spike would never have penetrated the brim before snapping his head around.

I like a little floppiness, but not too much. The amount in my slightly distressed Fed is almost perfect.

JC1972 · Post by **JC1972** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:41 pm

Indy35 wrote:
Inbanana wrote:Thanks for the review, I picked up a Christy's while waiting for an AB and have been pretty happy with it, especially the floppiness and color of the felt... which actually I was beginning to worry was a shade too dark, but looking at your comparison photos with the flash on, I'm not too worried about it anymore. While waiting for the AB, I really don't have anything to compare it to, except maybe the Stetson I had from the 80s that felt like it was made out of some kind of really dense cardboard. It was like if they used that hat in this scene:
the spike would have put a hole through the brim before the felt even began to bend...
Imagine what would have happened when wearing a Peter Bros. it would have broken his neck! The spike would never have penetrated the brim before snapping his head around.

I like a little floppiness, but not too much. The amount in my slightly distressed Fed is almost perfect.

Don't try this at home, kids!

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:26 pm

Why not? I've always been a fan of natural distressing.

Dave

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:31 pm

OT -
I didn't have much in the way of opportunity to sport the AB yesterday. Spent the day in my flat cap and helmet playing bagpies. These pics were taken Saturday, but it was pretty much a repeat yesterday from three in the afternoon til two am

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... 356jhj.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_0965.jpg

Buuuuuut....
I'm happy to say I'm recovering nicely and I braved the sunshine for a few minutes to shoot a pic of the Adventurebilt outside on my head.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2769.jpg

Here's a minor problem I've run into with this particular hat:
For me, the Indy hat is all about the "camel humps". Due to the original block-shape of this hat - a regular oval - and then converting it to my long oval, I can't get the really exaggerated humps without creating taper. And I'm not talking about Raven taper, as I am actually quite partial to that particular hat, but just bad taper. So I'll have to live with that for a while.
This hat was creased originally without a turn, but I think the previous owner did a really good job giving the brim some character through dilligent shaping. I'm actually quite glad for this, as it will enable me to wear this hat in a more "civilized" setting.
Another funny thing: I got my first sweat stain on the liner. I've got several thoughts about this running though my cloudy head. On the one hand, it's the first step to a larger world, where I hope to be using the hat. On the other, it's the old Staff of Ra liner, which has a certain "cool factor". Ahhh well... what to do, what to do.....???

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:02 pm

Have Steve send you out a new liner and keep the old liner in the box. I'd kill for the old Ra liner, though the new one is definately nicer, classier and yet somehow more "Adventurebilt."

Dave

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:38 am

Here's some pics of the Adventurebilt on it's first real trip out of the house: I took it to see the USS Lexington today. I'll do a proper show of the Lex tomorrow ( in the "Scrapbook" ), after I get my pictures sorted out, but for now, here's the hat:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2780.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... CN1370.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... CN1379.jpg

The AB made for a good helmet in some of the lower passageways and hatches

...

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:09 am

Those photos really show off the AB. Its a beautiful hat and suits you very well, to boot! If you don't like it, you can send it my way. I'll be sure to...dispose of it for you.

Dave

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:32 am

DR Ulloa wrote:Those photos really show off the AB. Its a beautiful hat and suits you very well, to boot! If you don't like it, you can send it my way. I'll be sure to...dispose of it for you.

Dave

Thanks a lot.
That second pic really exhibits the way the hat takes on different colors where it's been handled, that I described in the initial post. It's still gonna need a little breaking in time, but all in all it treated me well today. I really gotta squeak about two or three mm more out of it to be perfect, but if that doesn't self-resolve through regular wear within the next week or so, I'm gonna let a pro handle it.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:20 am

It really suits you great kiltie! (now you can throw the Christy's away

just kidding)

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:16 pm

Okay -
I had a little internal dialog about this next post, but figure in the interest of sweeping fairness ( especially considering the shennanigans in the "Jacket" section ), I should go ahead and open this up for comments.

As is apparent, I am very happy with the first AB I've ever had my hands on and am lucky enough to own. Quality stuff. Also, I recently had the doubly good fortune of aquiring an AB off the CS block. Again - a good deal of excitement, especially considering this one I can wear a bit more regularly, it being a more "traditional" fedora creasing, shape, etc... More understated, but still instantly Indy.
Here's the rub, though. Some uuuhhhh... inconsistent quality. Still really solid stuff, but, well... Have a look -

Here's the RAIDERS AB where the sweatband comes together at the back:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2755.jpg

...and here's the CS AB in the same place:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_0393.jpg

Why the difference? Especially considering the RAIDERS is much more tidy, stronger looking...just better.

And then there's this -

RAIDERS bow:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2749.jpg

CS bow:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_0395.jpg

See how the back part of the bow and the ribbon don't meet up squarely?

I invite any and all input on this from everyone - especially Fedora. I have no complaints beyond these, and again, the RAIDERS is really great ( except that darned sweatband...com'on man

). And the CS is still obviously well made, it just falls down on these two points, particularly considering I've seen better stuff from AB first hand now. I didn't bring these issues to Fedora outside the forum first, and I know that's a breach of etiquette to some of the members, and I tend to agree. However, as I am not the original owner of either of these hats, I'm not sure if it's really my place to grieve this. Anywhooo... Any input is good.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:33 pm

It's funny but I have never seen Steve use the zigzag pattern on sewing a sweatband together. I only seen him do the x pattern. I'm just guessing but it could be the first owner replaced the sweatband and ribbon. I had a AB sent to me and they had a brand new un-cut sweatband sent along with the hat for me to cut and sew.
As for the ribbon. It could be that the takedown stitch came undone under the right lower part of the bow. Thats were I tie mine off at.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:35 pm

Well, he did have an apprentice a few months back

Maybe that's what caused the differences?

Regards, Geert

P.S. What is the date for these hats? Any indication on the sweat about when they were made?

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:14 pm

BendingOak wrote:It's funny but I have never seen Steve use the zigzag pattern on sewing a sweatband together. I only seen him do the x pattern. I'm just guessing but it could be the first owner replaced the sweatband and ribbon. I had a AB sent to me and they had a brand new un-cut sweatband sent along with the hat for me to cut and sew.
As for the ribbon. It could be that the takedown stitch came undone under the right lower part of the bow. Thats were I tie mine off at.

I'm sorry to say that the sweatband is signed and dated by Mr. Delk; 5/08.
The Raiders is signed and dated 2/08.

But here's something else weird:
The ribbon on the CS doesn't have the irradescent quality to the edge that the Raiders has, and is just a hair wider ( and I mean a half mm. ). In the pic, the bottoms of the ribbons are aligned, whilst the tops are not ( it's extremely difficult to convey this in a picture, but rest assured, it is as I describe it - lined up at the bottom, slightly off at the top, or vice versa - even if it's not clear in the photo ):

And then there's this - TOTALLY different from the Raiders:

Here's the Raiders:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... IM2737.jpg

What is going on here?!? Someone who has some sway with Fedora please PM or call him and get him on this thread please.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:33 pm

Like I said before: it could be that the CS sweat was sewn in by his former apprentice.

I have 2 (second hand, both Raiders) AB's and the oldest one (which has an unsigned roan sweat) has the sweat done exactly as your Raiders while the newer one is done exactly like the CS you've got there.

I do not know what is going on with the ribbon width though, but the bow thing could be as Bending Oak said.

Regards, Geert

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:37 pm

Nah -
The ribbon and bow are both secured at that spot - just the placement is kinda slipshod. I'm gonna hold off on saying any more; give Mr. Delk a chance to get in here. I pm'd and e-mailed him, as I think this is kind of a big deal, best sorted out openly, honestly, and without conjecture.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:38 pm

Based on the supplied receipt dates, that's about the timeline I recall Steve hiring the apprentice. All the boy did was sew in sweats..

But as kiltie points out, it's conjecture on our part. Let's let Fedora chime in and clear it up.

Regards! Michaelson

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:47 pm

As both were purchased secondhand, I don't think its entirely fair to immediately think that Steve messed up the hat. There are a lot of folks that like to experiment with their hats. I think the person you should be getting in contact with FIRST is the person whom you bought your Raiders AB from. Ask HIM what is going on with the hat. Steve will always work on his hats. You can send that baby to him and he will fix it. All hatters fix their own work. This isn't the first AB I've seen that has the sweat sewn in awkwardly, BUT, all both the ones I've seen (including yours) are from the time that Steve took on an apprentice. Also, don't poo poo Oak's input so quickly. The guy knows what he is talking about.

Dave

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:48 pm

DR Ulloa wrote:As both were purchased secondhand, I don't think its entirely fair to immediately think that Steve messed up the hat. There are a lot of folks that like to experiment with their hats. I think the person you should be getting in contact with FIRST is the person whom you bought your Raiders AB from. Ask HIM what is going on with the hat. Steve will always work on his hats. You can send that baby to him and he will fix it. All hatters fix their own work. This isn't the first AB I've seen that has the sweat sewn in awkwardly, BUT, all both the ones I've seen (including yours) are from the time that Steve took on an apprentice. Also, don't poo poo Oak's input so quickly. The guy knows what he is talking about.

Dave

You misunderstand, sir. This was the point of my last post; to avoid conjecture. As I stated, I'm not sure, strictly speaking, if I have a grievance, as I am not the original owner of the hat. Had I nothing to compare the Crystal Skull AB to, I'd not know any better with regards to the Adventurebilt ( Mr. Delk's ) workmanship. However, since I have another model that is clearly superior, I'm left to scratch my head a bit concerning the CS. I'm not "poo-pooing" Oaks' assertions, but as has been pointed out, it's conjecture at this point, as is the business about the apprentice. I want clarification from the source, as the tangible evidence I currently have points to something that I believe even Mr. Delk would see as sub-par. This is FAR from an attack on Mr. Delk or Adventurebilt. On the contrary: it is clear that I have been quite happy with the Raiders. Happy enough to drop it for a second AB. I think that's solid testimonial.
Mr. Delk's word on the matter will be the final word, as far as I am concerned, as I have no reason to disbelieve whatever he offers up. At this point, though, I'm not prepared to send my new baby off into the wilderness while it's wings are still wet. Sending it off for a re-fit without any assurance as to the turnaround doesn't appeal to me. And again, I'm not sure what recourse I have, not being the original owner ( Mr. Delk, as much as I enjoy his product, his craftsmanship, etc... has not seen a dime from my pocket - I'd sooner back over my own head in the driveway than wait a year and a half for a hat. It has been demonstrated to me that the price is quite fair - I simply could not deal with the wait; just not in my make-up. )
I'm trying to be as above board as possible, and believe Fedora will agree, honest man to honest man.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:56 pm

The wait is most definately not for everyone. I don't mind paying for a product and waiting a year or so for it if I know it will be worth, but I also realize most people are not like me. I also agree that you shouldn't send that hat off to him without speaking to him first. He pops in here pretty frequently now so hopefully he will see this.

Dave

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:13 pm

You can't go by my post because I'm making a guess based on what I know of steve, his work and how ribbon is put on. You are missing point about the stitches. There is a long thread that goes around at the bottom of the ribbon to hold it down. It is tied down just under the bottom right bow. You can't see it but if it pops or comes undone could have this effect.

I can't speak for Steve but buying these hats second hand. I really can't see how you can ask him to correct them.

And if I read wrong,then I am sorry
John

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:18 pm

Well, asking him to correct it is perfectly fine but the service won't come free. It was up to the original owner to get that done. Steve made me a whole new hat when my first one arrived and the dimensions were off for me. I say, if you want to get it fixed, there is nothing wrong with that. I would want to get that ribbon fixed. But at this point, you are going to have to wait in line and pay for the service, if Steve is accepting refurbs at all right now.

Dave

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:50 pm

Okay -
I'm not looking to have the thing fixed right this minute. My main concern here is: here are two hats made by the same person with what I perceive to be considerable differences in the construction. Not being a hatter, for all I know the sweat band stitching is apples and oranges - neither is better than the other. But one certainly LOOKS better. The ribbon is wrong. Why? The place where the sweat comes together is different. Why? This is what I'm after. Not how long it will take or how much it will cost to correct or otherwise change.

Oak,
I hear what you're saying about the bow, and I think there's something more fundamentally wrong here. The ribbon just doesn't seem to meet itself when it comes around. That's probably unclear, but it's the best way I can describe it.

Finally, I'm not going to go waving an accusatory finger at another member 'til Fedora helps me set my facts straight. That's why I haven't brought that up yet. I don't want anything less than civil going on here

.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:24 pm

kiltie wrote:Okay -
I'm not looking to have the thing fixed right this minute. My main concern here is: here are two hats made by the same person with what I perceive to be considerable differences in the construction. Not being a hatter, for all I know the sweat band stitching is apples and oranges - neither is better than the other. But one certainly LOOKS better. The ribbon is wrong. Why? The place where the sweat comes together is different. Why? This is what I'm after. Not how long it will take or how much it will cost to correct or otherwise change.

Oak,
I hear what you're saying about the bow, and I think there's something more fundamentally wrong here. The ribbon just doesn't seem to meet itself when it comes around. That's probably unclear, but it's the best way I can describe it.

Finally, I'm not going to go waving an accusatory finger at another member 'til Fedora helps me set my facts straight. That's why I haven't brought that up yet. I don't want anything less than civil going on here .

Buying second hand hat. You really have no idea what went on with these hats. I really don't think you understand what I' saying about the ribbon and thats OK. The biggest problem is making a thread about a problem with a hat that you didn't get from the maker. I'm sure your not the type of officer that would rip a firefighter in public or in front of another firefighter for making a mistake or doing something wrong. You would talk with that firefighter in private. This is the same here with these hats.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:31 pm

Michaelson wrote:
...as kiltie points out, it's conjecture on our part. Let's let Fedora chime in and clear it up.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:36 pm

Thats not an answer.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:03 pm

Okay.
I'm not sure what you're looking for. I'm not going to argue. The point, as far as I understand it, of this site is for getting information and sharing likeminded conversation. I've been civil. I'm not calling anyone out. I certainly haven't disparaged the Adventurebilt product or Mr. Delk. On the contrary; I've advanced the thought that this is likely an anomaly.
I fully understand what you are trying to describe, in both your opinion of how I should handle this and what you're saying about the ribbon. As to the ribbon, I'm sure I'm the one who's not being clear. I can't fix that in this setting. I'm not articulate enough, it would seem.
As to the spirit of my post - well, we just differ there. Can't fix that either. Steve is your friend and you want to make sure everything is handled as fairly as possible. I appreciate that. I think I'm being fair, and in many respects still touting the virtues of the AB. I'm trying to shake this out fairly and in the long run, maybe save anyone who has similar concerns any trouble. If I was being unfair, I'm sure a Mod would have stepped in by now.
My hang up about the hat is, metaphorically speaking, I've grown accustom to the Porsche 911 GT2 ( the Raiders ), and now I've got a 911 Turbo Cabriolet ( the CS ). They're both Porsches but... well, you get the point.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:40 pm

I'd like to think of them as Aston Martins, but I'm a sucker for English cars.

If my responses have not come off as civil then for that I am sorry. I have no problem with someone posting about a product, good or bad. I think that is one of the reasons this forum exists; to inform others about products truthfully and let the reader draw his own conclusions. But, with that in mind, you post read as being accusatory. I say read becuase thats how I read it. I'm not saying thats how you wrote it. I understand the context in which it was written now. I do think that John is right about the ribbon, though. The only way to really know is to hold the hat in his hands. But the one who would know what is going on is Steve as it was made by him. I'm sure he'll stop in here soon enough and chime in. I still think that the apprentice is to blaime here as you are right: that sweat stitching doesn't look like his normal work.

Dave

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:52 am

I have to assume that my apprentice made and mailed out a hat on a day I took off. But we never used anything but brown or black thread to attach the sweat to the hat. So, a bit puzzled about that.

Since my name is on the hat, if you want, send it back and I will redo the sweat and the ribbon.

One thing is for certain, I did not make that hat. That is not my work. I inspect each hat, back when he worked for me, before it was mailed. Plus, I never let him do anything to my own hats, except block some of them, and sew in some sweats, once he got up to speed. And his sweatband work was good, and never used anything but brown or black thread. I am puzzled with several things about that hat. He started in late March, and by May was not still good enough to make a hat, although he never made any of my own line. I did not trust him to do anything but the sweat installation and some of the blocking. Fedora

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:03 am

Attaboy, Fedora!
I knew you wouldn't let this slide. I'll get in touch with the member who sold me the hat and get some input as to what might have gone down here before I do anything else. If anything, it might be interesting just to have you look at the hat - a little forensic pathalogy...
Thanks for getting in here quickly, and for the record, I want everyone to know that I believed your answer would be a simple as it is with regards to your hand in this thing. I'm most concerned now about having to confront another member with this information.
Thanks again.

Edit: Fedora - it looks like you edited your initial response. Don't feel immediatly obliged to claim responsibility, sir. I'll get the rest of the info and post it here, as well. If there's a way to completely clear AB here, as far as this hat goes, it'll come out in this thread.
Thanks

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:38 am

Here is what the seam looks like on the sweats I personally made.

Back in late 2007 and early 2008, I had my sister in law and my sister to sew the ends of sweats together to help me speed up, something I just recalled. They literally did this to almost 2 gross, and I stocked them after marking the size on them to use later on. Some of these had the holes spaced too wide, with too few stitches. At the time, I did not think much of it, as I had seen various vintage hats with the same wide spaced stitches. In fact, some vintage hats had only a stitch at the top of the sweat, and one at the bottom, with the space between these, just a seam, with no stitches. Now, this is not how I do it, but since they also did some of the film hats the same way, I felt it was passable, only because it was accurate to SOME of the film hats. And these were used in the CS fedoras that I made after that. These sweats were all in common sizes, not custom sizes. If I was pressed for time on any particular day, I would grab one in the right size from what they had made. But most of my own sweats have the pattern above in the pic I just posted, taken from the hat I had on my head. No bow on it, as I don't put the white bows in most of my hats, as they are just there for cosmetic reasons, and have long long their use. At one time, they were the ends of a line that ran around inside of the sweat, and you could tighten them up if the hat was too large. So, today, it is a holdover from earlier times, and have no use, except eye appeal. Fedora

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:44 am

FEDORA -

Would there be anything written on inside the crown of the body ( on the felt ) in white chalk on your hats?

EDIT: the ends of the sweat, where they come together; I can live with that. But not the way the sweat band is sewn in. I'm really anxious to hear back from the seller as to why it wouldn't be your linked together stitches.

I wish I could get into the crown with a camera for some good pics, but I think I'd have to do some surgury. Right now the hat is wearable, and I like it that way

. Once we get to the bottom of this though, I'd definately like to get it up to the same speed as the Adventurebilt I've grown accustom to.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:19 pm

Fedora,

I sent you and e-mail and left a message at the number provided on your Adventureilt website. I included my telephone number so that you can call me if you like. I'd like nothing more than to get this ironed out in a way that benifits everyone and ensures that the AB name retains it's esteem. For the public record, I believe that everything is as you've said it is, as far as the construction of your hats goes, and at this point I'm concerned about getting to the bottom of what the problem with THIS PARTICULAR HAT is.

Thanks again for your prompt responses on this thread, and I look forward to more interaction, be it on the phone or through other electronic media.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:15 pm

While this is being sorted out, we'll lock this one for now.

Regards! Michaelson