Wested sizing for beginners

[Ford]

Greetings from a new member

I originally joined about a week ago with a long list of questions, and by the time I was authorised I'd entirely forgotten what they were...

Fortunately though I've up some new ones - and seeing as this is the jacket forum, could I ask about Wested sizing, specifically the Raiders and ROLA jackets off the rack jackets?

I've contacted Wested who was helpful but left me feeling a little confused about the fit.

I was told that the ROLAs and standard Raiders both have exactly the same fitting around the chest (but that the ROLAs are slightly narrower around the waist), and that Wested oversize by 6 inches: 4 inches "wriggle room" plus an extra inch either side for what they call "seam allowance"

So a size 40 measures 23 pit to pit (or 22-23 according to Wested), ie 46 inches: (20 + 2 + 1) * 2



I'll be in my class Wednesday if anyone need to go over this, but not Thursday, all right? (Hope that Indy reference wasn't too obscure )

so they're made pretty baggy, which surprised me... 6 inches over size.

Anyways, I noticed on this site everyone seem to have fairly fitted looking jackets - ie not BAGGY - much like the film, so I was wondering, do most people who buy "off the rack" have success with going down a size, with shoulder size, arm length, jacket length etc? Or is custom made the only way to go if you want to avoid the "River Phoenix wearing Harrison Ford's jacket" look

Sorry if this post's been a bit detailed but I'm hoping there might be one of two gearheads here who are into this sort of stuff

[Kevin Anderson]

The only good advice I can offer, is call Wested, and get the information from them directly.
Make sure you get all the answers to all your questions regarding their product. Get it in writing too, via email.
That way, you'll have some recourse when they inevitably get something wrong with your order...

[Michaelson]

First of all, WELCOME!

Second, totally agree with Mr. Anderson's advice. A call is the very best way to 'sort' this information out.

and finally:

I'll be in my class Wednesday if anyone need to go over this, but not Thursday, all right? (Hope that Indy reference wasn't too obscure )

...not hardly.

Regards! Michaelson

[JC1972]

Welcome! BTW I didn't find the Wested custom ROLA to be baggy; not compared to a G&B Expedition by any means. Look at these pics, they're both 44L (or 44T for G&B). Big difference in the shoulders. And do call Wested if you have any questions.

Wested
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/J ... G_2120.jpg

G&B
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/J ... cs2001.jpg

[VP]

JC1972: That Wested fits you much better than the Flight Suits, now get some wrinkles and scratches underway.

[JC1972]

Thanks VP! I might actually sell the G&B as it has a more of a sloppy look when compared to the Wested. Don't worry, I'll be distressing the jacket shortly. It is raining outside now, hmm?

[Ford]

Hi guys!

Kevin: Hi!

I did email them, then called for clarification, and got a bit confused as to the sizing which is why I thought I'd ask here. First I emailed and asked the pit to pit measurement of a size 40 and was told:

I have measured the ROLA size 40 jacket as you have requested the chest measures between 22-23 inches

which all sounded a bit 'quantum' to me. When I asked what the 'between 22-23 inches' meant I was told it measured 22, unless it's tightened then it measures 23.

Still don't really know what that means.

Anyway, we finally seemed to agree that there was 6 inches breathing space and that it's a baggy fitting, which no-one pictured here seems to have, hence my sizing question. Do people tend to size down or is there some way to alter the jacket size with the side buckles? I thought those were for ventilation?

Anyway, my sister lives down those parts so perhaps I'll just wait till I'm in the area then pop in to the factory for an advanced course in theoretical stitching.

Michaelson: Hi!

...not hardly.

JC1972: Hi! Difficult to see from the pics, to me they both look like good fits, except perhaps the shoulder seam of the G&B does look like it extends a quite far down your arms compared with the Wested.

So 44 is your normal jacket size then? And that was OK in the Wested, and a bit baggy in the G&B? Could you have gone one size down with the G&B then? I was looking at their jackets too

[VP]

The side buckles are there to make the action pleats work properly, not to tighten the jacket. If you want a close fitting Wested get an 80s cut or go size down. You can also try shrinking the jacket with heat but you better be careful with that.

22–23 inches means that when it's worn with regular clothing it feels like a 22 incher, but if you layer much you can fit in with one inch of clothing. Of course then it starts to look a bit like spandex instead of a casual jacket.

[RCSignals]

Hi and welcome to this madness.

..........

which all sounded a bit 'quantum' to me. When I asked what the 'between 22-23 inches' meant I was told it measured 22, unless it's tightened then it measures 23.

Still don't really know what that means.

I'm with you, I don't understand how 'tightened' it becomes a larger measurement

........

Anyway, my sister lives down those parts so perhaps I'll just wait till I'm in the area then pop in to the factory for an advanced course in theoretical stitching.

.........

If you can go see them first hand, that is definitely your best option.

[JC1972]

JC1972: Hi! Difficult to see from the pics, to me they both look like good fits, except perhaps the shoulder seam of the G&B does look like it extends a quite far down your arms compared with the Wested.

So 44 is your normal jacket size then? And that was OK in the Wested, and a bit baggy in the G&B? Could you have gone one size down with the G&B then? I was looking at their jackets too

Sorry, that's what I meant; that the G&B is more off the shoulder than the Wested. The sleeve lengths are the same, 25" even though I told Peter and Gemma 26.25". However I guess that's why the G&B seems longer since its more off the shoulder.

I wear a 43 suit jacket. I guess I could've went down to a 42 with G&B but I didn't know how they were with sizing; that was my first, the Wested I just got. Rule of thumb is when between sizes to go up, not down. Besides the G&B is not custom-made. I hope this helps and good luck!

[Ford]

Hi guys...

VP:

So it fits like a 22 inch, but measures 23? Or perhaps can't be measured accurately pit to pit because there's more leather at the back.

Also, when you say wear with 'regular clothing' you're meaning just a shirt, and it should be a fairly neat fit?

Also, I understood from reading here that ROLAs were 80s cut, but I'm assuming now that that would be a custom order? Probably a size down would be the thing.

RCSignals:

It looks like it would ab a fun place to visit


I was really just looking for a leather jacket then noticed a Wested advertised on ebay and liked the design of it. Now after a week or so on here I'm finding myself wanting a Fedora as well.

This could all become quite addictive if I'm not careful.

[Kt Templar]

Very dangerous....

Run away whilst you still can.

[RCSignals]

It's already to late for him Kt

.........

I was really just looking for a leather jacket then noticed a Wested advertised on ebay and liked the design of it. Now after a week or so on here I'm finding myself wanting a Fedora as well.
............

Even if he leaves now, he will be haunted by the 'want'

[Yojimbo Jones]

I think what she meant by "tightened" was if you pull the chest leather tight across to measure vs. a loose / lying on a table measure.

[Kt Templar]

That's true, I only held out about a week once I found out about Wested, before I HAD to go there. Up until then I hadn't worn a leather jacket for years.

[RCSignals]

I think what she meant by "tightened" was if you pull the chest leather tight across to measure vs. a loose / lying on a table measure.

That's probably it, yes.

[backstagejack]

I have several questions.

1. Do the custom jackets have a size tag in them? I ordered what I thought was a custom jacket back in 99 but it has a size tag.

2. Have their sizing changed since the late 90s? I want to order a new one, but I don't want it to fit like my old one. I've heard that they've changed things a little since then.

3. I measured myself last night and my chest was a size 41.....should I order a size 42? My current wested is size 40 but the sleeves are too short...

4.As I generally have long arms for my size...would a 40 long work better? and is that a custom size or can I get an off the rack Wested in a 40 long?

[RCSignals]

I have several questions.

1. Do the custom jackets have a size tag in them? I ordered what I thought was a custom jacket back in 99 but it has a size tag.

2. Have their sizing changed since the late 90s? I want to order a new one, but I don't want it to fit like my old one. I've heard that they've changed things a little since then.

3. I measured myself last night and my chest was a size 41.....should I order a size 42? My current wested is size 40 but the sleeves are too short...

4.As I generally have long arms for my size...would a 40 long work better? and is that a custom size or can I get an off the rack Wested in a 40 long?

Are you ordering a Custom? If so give your actual sizes. If your chest measurement is 41 give them that. You could use your old jacket to determine how much longer you want your sleeves.

My ToD which is a custom, still has a size label.

[backstagejack]

Are you ordering a Custom? If so give your actual sizes. If your chest measurement is 41 give them that. You could use your old jacket to determine how much longer you want your sleeves.

My ToD which is a custom, still has a size label.

I'm debating on ordering a custom or an off the shelf......Does anyone have an off the rack Wested and how does it fit?

I was thinking on ordering their combo special as I'm in need of a shirt and pants also....and it looks like their combo is only available for an off the shelf jacket.

[Kt Templar]

If it matters to you, the off the racks are now outsourced from India. If you want a UK made one you can see if they have one on the returns rack or get a custom.

Things have got a bit more complicated since you got your ones. EG. Raiders and ROLA mean different specs. Go to his site and read up on the differences and on the options. Many more leathers available too.

Then there is the ToD too.

[backstagejack]

If it matters to you, the off the racks are now outsourced from India. If you want a UK made one you can see if they have one on the returns rack or get a custom.

Things have got a bit more complicated since you got your ones. EG. Raiders and ROLA mean different specs. Go to his site and read up on the differences and on the options. Many more leathers available too.

Then there is the ToD too.

Im going for an LC/kotcs actually....

[Kt Templar]

Ok same thing sort of applies, they do OTR LCs too and they are also outsourced.

There are a couple of things to do to the LC to make it more SA. One is no hem stitch at the foot of the jacket and 2 is big pocket flaps.

Holt will be along presently to tell you what else....

[backstagejack]

Ok same thing sort of applies, they do OTR LCs too and they are also outsourced.

There are a couple of things to do to the LC to make it more SA. One is no hem stitch at the foot of the jacket and 2 is big pocket flaps.

Holt will be along presently to tell you what else....

So...what you're really saying is custom is the way to go to make it more SA. I thought the actual pockets were bigger (to fit the grail diary), not just the pocket flaps?

One thing I love about the LC is the collar....its a real collar and doesn't go all Clown Collar like my raiders does....

[Clutters]

Welcome to the boards!
Here's what I can offer: I have bought 3 Westeds and it takes a while to work out what fits (vs what you see on screen) and what doesn't. Furthermore, each one will have slight differences anyway due to the handmade nature of the jacket.
My chest measures 41 inches exactly. I am 6'1" tall. My preferred specs are ROLA 40" chest, 26" back and 26.5" Sleeves with a Holt collar. My preferred shoulder measurement is 6.75 inches, but only in lambskin as that stretches a bit. Goat, Horse or Cow and 7" might be perfect, but only to get an off-the-shoulder look. If you are going for the Raven Bar type, you might want a smaller shoulder. But then again, you might have monster shoulders and need something entirely different!
The short answer is, you WILL end up buying more than one Wested. They are addictive plus, because of the multiple number of screen used jackets, you will always feel that there is one more Raiders jacket you need.
GOod luck.

[backstagejack]

Well, I'm going for an LC/kotcs style and quite frankly, I've owned one Wested for the past 10 years, and I plan on owning one more for the next 10 years or longer if I can help it. The only reason I want a new one is since I've been 18 my arms have apparently grown, thus making my Wested measurements too small. Plus, since I've ordered my original one, they've made some changes in the patterns and from what I hear they've fixed the Collar so it doesn't do the "clown collar" thing that I HATE on mine.

And of course, I'm pulling an LC Indy for Halloween so I need a new jacket for that also...

[Ford]

Welcome to the boards!

Thanks! TOH

Here's what I can offer: I have bought 3 Westeds and it takes a while to work out what fits (vs what you see on screen) and what doesn't. Furthermore, each one will have slight differences anyway due to the handmade nature of the jacket.

Not sure that's the reason to be honest. I've never tried a 42 jacket on before that's cut so large in the chest, so when I found the jacket too roomy I meant 'for a normal jacket' not because I was expecting a really tight fit, like in the Raiders Bar on screen. Most people expect an extra 4 inches in the chest, so getting 6 is effectively the same as buying one size up - or am I wrong? I'm guessing that's why so many people find it hard to get a decent fit with a Wested jacket.

I've read elsewhere here that people tend to do much better with other makes, Tony Nowak for example. By basically cutting their jackets a whole size too big Wested are on a hiding to nothing with getting any sort of standard fit right far less the tighter Indy fit.

I also think Wested should make it clearer to new customers that their jackets are cut one size too big.

Like you I'm a 41 so a 40 would probably be my size, but I wouldn't think of another Wested unless I was passing the factory and could try it on. Or perhaps a Todd would be better? Not sure... I'm currently thinking a fedora would be a better investment at the moment. Much more practical for me than a jacket.

[FLATHEAD]

Welcome to the boards!

Most people expect an extra 4 inches in the chest, so getting 6 is effectively the same as buying one size up - or am I wrong? I'm guessing that's why so many people find it hard to get a decent fit with a Wested jacket.



I also think Wested should make it clearer to new customers that their jackets are cut one size too big.

The standard Wested should have 4 inches of movement room in each tagged size. If the jacket you are
refering to has 6 inches, then it was probably just tagged wrong. It can happen with OTR jackets.

Wested jackets are not cut one size too big. They are cut to what is basically a standard military cut, which is the
4 inches above tagged size.

Alot of people today are not used to a standard military fit, and as such, they think the jacket is too tight, so
they will size up to get a looser fitting jacket, which is more in tune with whats produced today, for our current
fashions.

Its usually the US Wings and the Expedition jackets that have 6 inches of movement room over the tagged size,
which is alot closer to what is considered todays style and fit. So you don't hear alot of people who order these
jackets complaining about them being too tight or too snug.


What some people do is they actually order a size down in the Wings or Expedition to get a more snug military fit
if thats what they really want.

But the jacket you are refering to is most probably just a mis-labeled one.

Also, the inch on each side that was refered to you as "seam allowance" is the extra material each pattern is cut
with so that when the panels are sewn together, there is enough of the material to make the overall finished measurement
of the jacket come out to what its supposed to be.

If you want a size 44 jacket for example, which should measure 24 inches across the chest when its layed flat, to
actually come out to 24 inches across when its finished, you have to cut the pattern two extra inches bigger to
allow for the material to be taken up when you fold the seams over and put on the outer finish stitching.

Flathead

[RCSignals]

..........

The standard Wested should have 4 inches of movement room in each tagged size. If the jacket you are
refering to has 6 inches, then it was probably just tagged wrong. It can happen with OTR jackets.

Wested jackets are not cut one size too big. They are cut to what is basically a standard military cut, which is the
4 inches above tagged size.

A.........

Flathead

So, you are saying the jacket will measure, forr example, 44" around the chest, or 22" measured flat, but will be a size 40. Correct?

[FLATHEAD]

..........

The standard Wested should have 4 inches of movement room in each tagged size. If the jacket you are
refering to has 6 inches, then it was probably just tagged wrong. It can happen with OTR jackets.

Wested jackets are not cut one size too big. They are cut to what is basically a standard military cut, which is the
4 inches above tagged size.

A.........

Flathead

So, you are saying the jacket will measure, forr example, 44" around the chest, or 22" measured flat, but will be a size 40. Correct?

Yes, a size 40 regular Wested, or any other jacket, like a WWII A-2 that has a standard military cut, should measure 22 inches across
the chest when zipped up and layed flat.

Now, not every single one will be exactly 22 inches. You have to have some type of tolerance for different people doing the sewing,
using different machines, and putting together different panels using different leathers.

But it should come out to as close to 22 inches as you can get it.

A size 42 should measure 23 inches, a size 44 should measure 24 inches, a size 46 should measure 25 inches and so on.

Flathead

[RCSignals]

..........

The standard Wested should have 4 inches of movement room in each tagged size. If the jacket you are
refering to has 6 inches, then it was probably just tagged wrong. It can happen with OTR jackets.

Wested jackets are not cut one size too big. They are cut to what is basically a standard military cut, which is the
4 inches above tagged size.

A.........

Flathead

So, you are saying the jacket will measure, forr example, 44" around the chest, or 22" measured flat, but will be a size 40. Correct?

Yes, a size 40 regular Wested, or any other jacket, like a WWII A-2 that has a standard military cut, should measure 22 inches across
the chest when zipped up and layed flat.

Now, not every single one will be exactly 22 inches. You have to have some type of tolerance for different people doing the sewing,
using different machines, and putting together different panels using different leathers.

But it should come out to as close to 22 inches as you can get it.

Flathead

Thank you. That confirms what my understanding has always been.

Some people have been trying to confuse things

[FLATHEAD]

I have owned 3 Wested size 44 regular jackets in my time. One of their old
antique cowhide versions, and two lambskin versions.

And believe it or not, all 3 of them measured exactly 24 inches pit to pit
across the chest!

They must have all been made by the same person, on the same machine!!

Flathead

[Ford]

The standard Wested should have 4 inches of movement room in each tagged size. If the jacket you are
refering to has 6 inches, then it was probably just tagged wrong. It can happen with OTR jackets.

Wested jackets are not cut one size too big. They are cut to what is basically a standard military cut, which is the
4 inches above tagged size.

No, that's wrong, I talked to Gemma on the phone and she told me they cut them SIX inches oversize, so a jacket tagged 40 would correctly measure 23 pit to pit - 46. We cut them baggy, she said. And if I wanted just 4 inches over I'd need to go down a size. That's what she said, and it fits with the measurements of my jacket, six inches over tagged size.

Call her tomorrow and she'll tell you TOH

[RCSignals]

The standard Wested should have 4 inches of movement room in each tagged size. If the jacket you are
refering to has 6 inches, then it was probably just tagged wrong. It can happen with OTR jackets.

Wested jackets are not cut one size too big. They are cut to what is basically a standard military cut, which is the
4 inches above tagged size.

No, that's wrong, I talked to Gemma on the phone and she told me they cut them SIX inches oversize, so a jacket tagged 40 would correctly measure 23 pit to pit - 46. We cut them baggy, she said. And if I wanted just 4 inches over I'd need to go down a size. That's what she said, and it fits with the measurements of my jacket.

Does that apply to their " '80s cut" ? six inches is a lot of oversize

[gwyddion]

The standard Wested should have 4 inches of movement room in each tagged size. If the jacket you are
refering to has 6 inches, then it was probably just tagged wrong. It can happen with OTR jackets.

Wested jackets are not cut one size too big. They are cut to what is basically a standard military cut, which is the
4 inches above tagged size.

No, that's wrong, I talked to Gemma on the phone and she told me they cut them SIX inches oversize, so a jacket tagged 40 would correctly measure 23 pit to pit - 46. We cut them baggy, she said. And if I wanted just 4 inches over I'd need to go down a size. That's what she said, and it fits with the measurements of my jacket.

Does that apply to their " '80s cut" ? six inches is a lot of oversize

As far as I know it doesn't: my ROLA Special size 42 measures 23" pit to pit. Those are the only 80's cut OTR's.

Regards, Geert

[Ford]

The standard and ROLA are the same at the chest, I checked this with Peter. A lot of people here said the ROLA was 80's fit with apparently only 2 or 3 inches of room, in which case the ROLA is not 80's fit. 80's fit must be custom only so you'd have to ask.

my ROLA Special size 42 measures 23" pit to pit.

Odd, mine measured 24", which Gemma said was correct.

Maybe they changed the cut recently, and it's the newer jackets which are wider...

[gwyddion]

That could verry well be the case Mine is a year old now, so there's been ample time for such a change.

Regards, Geert

[Holt]

6'' oversized..

thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard comming out of wested! sorry. but thats just

[Michaelson]

Don't worry about it, nb. Get you a TN, and just forget about it. Let the expert worry about those details.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

[Michaelson]

Hope you share photos as you get them!

Regards! Michaelson

[Yojimbo Jones]

As I mentioned in the WM thread,
"I think a big factor that no-one has mentioned is that you're all assuming that the jackets in the films were sized to fit someone like normal everyday clothing. They're costumes. Fit is tweaked for the right effect. The "normal" idea of allowing for 2" or 4" or 6" in the case of a lot of Westeds doesn't really apply."

That is, if you want it to fit with the nuance of a SA jacket. You've really gotta go off measurements of the jacket, not just yourself. I wouldn't trust the whole chest measurement plus movement room for it to look exactly right. It's a guide at best, esp. when Wested's room for movement varies from jacket to jacket and body part to body part!

[backstagejack]

Well for me, I have owned one wested in my life for the past 10 years. Its been a great jacket and everyone tells me that it looks great on me. I''ve loved the fit in every aspect except for the sleeves...and the collar. Therefore I want to get another Wested LC style of course.

Not to mention, its cheaper then a TN and any other out there aside from a Coyles.

So.

Am I to understand that the current fit is loose? How has recent customers found the fit of their Westeds?

[Yojimbo Jones]

Only going by what I've read on the boards, some cuts seem to be big (my sleeves are too wide IMO), others (ROLA) pinch at the armpit, etc. I can't for the life of me figure out why it's all such a hassle to get consistency.

Not everyone wants to spend $$$ for a Nowak. It IS a big chunk of dough for something as simple as a jacket.

If I was after something cheaper I'd go a Todd's, but if you're a Wested man, all I'd suggest is check and triple check everything, measure jackets that fit you well and ask for THOSE dimensions. Don't trust their body measurement +2/4/6" system.

[backstagejack]

see, that frustrates me as, how hard can it be? If someone sends you some accurate measurements why can't you make them a custom jacket that's consistent with those measurements?

[Yojimbo Jones]

I think the Smile you're looking for is this:

Tell me about it.

[Kt Templar]

BSJ, give Peter a ring in about 10 hours.

Better to get some info direct.

Sometimes the merry go round of info gets distorted.

Slim people will tell you their sizes run big, big people will tell you they pinch, the truth is somewhere in between.

[Yojimbo Jones]

I agree with KT. Just call. But still recheck all sizing they give you after that. This is a jacket Peter personally measured a guy for ON-SITE and it's still too big and long IMO.

[RCSignals]

BSJ, give Peter a ring in about 10 hours.

Better to get some info direct.

Sometimes the merry go round of info gets distorted.

Slim people will tell you their sizes run big, big people will tell you they pinch, the truth is somewhere in between.

Always best to call the man when in doubt. While people here can give you their experience or advice it's the person who makes the jacket that matters in this kind of information.

[Kt Templar]

I agree with KT. Just call. But still recheck all sizing they give you after that. This is a jacket Peter personally measured a guy for ON-SITE and it's still too big and long IMO.

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww29 ... _00821.jpg

You didn't factor in the 'girl friend without a clue' factor.

[Yojimbo Jones]

Agreed, KT!

...and never listen to a woman re gear!

[Ford]

If you want a size 44 jacket for example, which should measure 24 inches across the chest when its layed flat, to
actually come out to 24 inches across when its finished, you have to cut the pattern two extra inches bigger to
allow for the material to be taken up when you fold the seams over and put on the outer finish stitching.

OK, that sounds plausible as a definition for seam allowance, but those extra inches wouldn't be measurable when you measure pit to pit. I suspect Gemma may have been mixing things up a little.