S&W .38 Anything like Indys?

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

I've seen a S&W 38. I was wondering how close it was to the S&Ws that Indy used. Now I know the grips are wrong (plain smooth wood) and obviously the barrel is too long (aren't they all to start with). I'm new to all this so please can you let me know what the differences are and how good a 'close enough' you think it is. Thanks in anticipation!

Raider

[binkmeisterRick]

Raider, if you read through the gun section, you should find plenty on "close enough" revolvers, including actual S$W guns. It sounds like you're referring to the S&W Victory or M&P Model, in which case, it's they're talked about plenty around here.

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

That's just it. I don't really know what I'm searching for. Is it likely to be a 'police special'?

[Indiana Bond]

Raider,

Here are some good resources for ALL the firearms used in the Indy movies.

Raiders of the Lost Ark

Temple of Doom

Last Crusade

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

I personally own the following Indy guns. S&W 1917, Webley WG, Browning Hi-Power, Colt Official Police, Remington 1875, Walther PPK, Walther P38, Norinco Tokarev. (Check out my Avatar. Those are all photos of my actual Indy guns.)


My goal is to eventually own a copy of every handgun used in all the movies. Presently I'm looking for the Webley MKIII, S&W 32 Safety, S&W model 10 w/3" barrel, Colt M1911, Inglis Hi-Power, Mauser "Broomhandle", and a Mauser P08.

I have made many posts throughout this forum describing in detail most all of the Indy guns mentioned above, so you should not have any trouble finding the details you need here at this forum. Just use the Search function and you will make amazing discoveries!! I found all the information I needed to make all my purchases from this forum.

Good Luck!!

[RaiderZee]

Howdy,

The S&W M&P or Victory models are very good "close enoughs". Much like the Bapty or Stembridge used in Raiders only a bit smaller. The pre-1957 M&Ps are probably the best for this purpose, as many were made with 4" barrels, like the guns in Raiders. I have one, circa 1926, in very good condition, and its the highest quality firearm I own. Check for my post from last November-ish, when I bought it.

RaiderZee

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Thanks all! I have read about the gunsused in raiders etc. However the articles never talk about the differences between hem and the better close enoughs. I found a threadon the Victory but the pictures had all gone. Can anyone post the ones showing the size differences? I also saw your post Raiderz. Yours I think is a M&P, VERY nice!

[Indiana Bond]

Raider,

All the S&W revolvers look and function pretty much the same. The major difference is in overall size. The guns Indy uses in ROTLA are the model 1917 and the Hand Ejector. Both of these are "N" frame guns and are the largest frames S&W makes designed to accomodate the larger .45 or .455 caliber round. The Victory and the M&P are both "K" frame guns and are a bit smaller. These are also known as the Model 10 S&W. They are designed to accomodate the .38 caliber round. Here are some comparison photos of the current "N" frame versus the current "K" frame.





You can clearly see that the guns look the same except for the overall size.

As far as barrel length is concerned, S&W makes most of it's revolvers with numerous barrel lengths. The K frame is available in 2, 3, 4 , 5 , 6, and I believe 8 inch lengths. Other lengths were probably also made. The "N" frame guns now are also available in these different lengths but back 90 years ago the model 1917 was only made with a 5 1/2 inch barrel and the Hand Ejector was only made with a 6 1/2 in barrel. That's why you never see an older "N" frame 1917 or Hand Ejector with a factory 4 inch barrel. In contrast the older "K" frames like the Victory or M&P were made with 4 inch barrels along with other lengths.

If you want a revolver just like Indy's you will need to find a model 1917 or Hand Ejector and have the barrel shortened as no guns with factory 4 inch barrels were ever made. If you want a revolver that looks like Indy's and is more readily available go with a 4 inch "K" frame older model 10. It will be a bit smaller than Indys gun but it will be a lot easier to find and cheaper also. Some of the older models even have similar grips to Indy's gun.

One other suggestion would be to find a 4 inch S&W model 58 as shown below. It is a "N" frame revolver with a 4 inch barrel and ramp front sight similar to the "Bapty" Indy gun. Also like Indy's gun it does NOT have a full lug shrowd under the barrel. Most other "N" frame models do have a full shrowd under lug. The barrel on the model 58 is a bit thicker though. The grips arn't right but those are relatively easy to find and replace to match the Indy grips. You would also have to add a lanyard ring to the bottom of the grip. The only other difference is that it would be in .41 magnum caliber and not a .45 or .455. But that really doesn't matter as you can't really "see" any difference because of the caliber. It would be the closest match "look" wise compaired to anything else.



S&W model 58 (above) - Indy's "Bapty" (below)




I hope this clears things up a bit for you. Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions!

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Thanks IndianaBond. That was REALLY helpfull. Hand guns in the UK are really hard to get hold of. The likelyhood of finding the 'right' gun is quite slim and probably expensive. All our guns are also deactivated ones.

I was interested in the actuall size difference between the victory, 1911 & HE2 as I was worried the victory would look TOO small. Do you consider this to be a 'real' issue when chooseing. And yes I know having the real thing would be best. Is the victory a popular choice for this 'application'?

[binkmeisterRick]

Here's a pic or two of my WWII S&W Victory:




I've since changed grips, but still have the originals. Mine is a .38 S&W, NOT to be confused with .38 Special or + loads which are stronger than the the .38 S&W load. But if you don't plan on firing it, then there's no need to worry about the ammo.

[Indiana Leon]

@binkmeisterRick
Hey nice S&W! (I'd like to have one, too)
I've only such a toy-gun, which I also use in my fan-film. Here's a pic.

[Indiana Bond]

Raider,

I did a poll awhile back asking what form of gun people carried in their holsters. Here is the thread.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26933&start=0&view=viewpoll

As you can see only 3 out of 50 people actually carry a real gun in the Holster. Even though it is legal to own a gun here in the U.S.A., it is not wise to be carrying it your Indy holster. Thus most don't even consider purchasing a close enough "real" gun like a M&P or Victory just for the "application" of having a gun in the holster.

Since you are in the UK you would be best off getting a good resin reprodution of Indy's 4 inch "N" frame S&W instead of trying to find a "close" deactivated gun. It would serve the same purpose, would be easier to acquire, and it would be a lot less expensive.

No sense to spend all that money on a non screen accurate gun and then not even be able to shot or use it because it has been deactivated.

Just my 2 cents!

Thanks!

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

You could only do that here now if it were a childs toy. A replica that fired blanks would have to be made of brightly colored metal. A 'bb' has to he clear plastic and an airdoft require a licence!!!! A deactivted one is actually the easiest to get, although finding a totaly accurate one is still hard wether it is airsoft or deactivated. Go figure.

[Indiana Dymond]

Hi Raider, my first post so my chance to say hello to everyone. I'm in the uk too getting a .455 HE2 de-ac is not to hard. I got one last year and i've seen 3 or 4 for sale since.They seem to go for around £600,a .38 victory is around £200 .Did see one a few weeks ago, i'll pm you the website if you want

ID

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

That would be very kind ID. Welcome to COW

[jts1031]

Both of these are "N" frame guns and are the largest frames S&W makes designed to accomodate the larger .45 or .455 caliber round.

Just for the sake of completeness, they do make the X-frame, which is for the behemoth .500 and .460.

[Indy_Werner]

I just got a S&W model 15 from my father as a gift and....... To me, it looks like this is one of the closest revolvers you can get to Indy's in a .38 caliber. Although it is a tad smaller because of the lower caliber.