Simple Jacket Q's for Jacket Gurus

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:07 pm

I feel as though I'm taking a big step in posting these very basic questions here, considering the vast depth in jacket-knowledge that most members have here that I don't. I have used the search, and read through quite a bit of conversation/argument already, but I still can't seem to figure out what the consensus is. So please bear with me....

What is the general consensus (if there is one) on what type of leather was used for the first 3 movies? As far as I can tell:

Raiders - Lamb, heavily distressed with pocket knife and wire brush

TD - Lamb, washed and probably distressed similar to Raider's jacket

LC - Lamb? distressed similar to Raider's jacket, but also features unique distressing around seems with what would appear to be sandpaper?

I've got a 10 year old Wested goat, and am very interested in getting a decently accurate LC jacket sometime soon, and can't even seem to figure out what kind of leather would be reasonably SA. So really I'm most interested in the LC jacket. And I do not mean to start a long, diverting thread about all the little details of the jacket, I'm just trying to figure out the broad basic info.

And if I'm right about the first three jackets being lamb, is the current craze in cow/novapelle due to the fact that it's just so much more durable than lamb/goat that it doesn't matter that they aren't SA, or is there really a question as to what is featured in the films?

I sincerely hope I'm not wasting your time guys....just trying to get my head straight before dropping the $$ for another jacket. Thank you,

Alexander

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:20 pm

Peter has said numerous times that the jacket in LC was lamb, the same as the first two movies, albeit a thicker version (?). Some have speculated that at least one LC jacket was cowhide but this has never been proven conclusively.

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:12 pm

Peter has said numerous times that the jacket in LC was lamb, the same as the first two movies, albeit a thicker version (?). Some have speculated that at least one LC jacket was cowhide but this has never been proven conclusively.

Thank you, sir!

It does look a little thicker though, doesn't it? Hmmm......

Raskolnikov · Post by **Raskolnikov** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:14 pm

And I believe that Peter used novapelle to make his own version of the KS jacket, wich was made with predistressed cowhide.

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:38 pm

If there is one thing I have learned being around COW...there is no such thing as a simple question in the jacket section.

Good luck with this one IO!

Post by **Holt** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:42 pm

Ok. I just have to ask you.

I read that you have a 10 year old goatskin jacket.

I would be VERY interested in seeing it. I too have a wested goat ( the newer soft batch) and would be cool to see what I can expect from it in 10 years.

also, how has it held up? stitching good?

anything you want to say or show me about this jacket then feel free to pm me.

bests
Holt

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:51 am

Are you wanting to get a Wested or can you afford a Nowak?

The Han Jones and Orb jackets posted recently are flat out the best I've seen in terms of accuracy to what you see on screen straight out of the box.

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:19 am

Are you wanting to get a Wested or can you afford a Nowak?

To be quite honest, I'm not even close to being decided. Was actually thinking about getting a Magnoli LC in lamb, but haven't been able to find too many pics. I'd definitely be interested in getting a TN KOTCS someday, but hadn't really thought too much about getting an LC done by Tony.

I read that you have a 10 year old goatskin jacket.

I would be VERY interested in seeing it. I too have a wested goat ( the newer soft batch) and would be cool to see what I can expect from it in 10 years.

And Holt, I'll definitely try to PM you with some pics sometime after work this week, but i must say that my Wested has held up magnificently, except for some of the stitching around the pockets.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:59 pm

IndyOriginal wrote: To be quite honest, I'm not even close to being decided. Was actually thinking about getting a Magnoli LC in lamb, but haven't been able to find too many pics. I'd definitely be interested in getting a TN KOTCS someday, but hadn't really thought too much about getting an LC done by Tony.

Bear in mind Tony has personally examined the Smithsonian jacket as part of his Indy4 work. And yes, everything I've seen and heard about Magnoli's LC is really good as well.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed May 27, 2009 2:34 am

Yojimbo Jones wrote:
IndyOriginal wrote: To be quite honest, I'm not even close to being decided. Was actually thinking about getting a Magnoli LC in lamb, but haven't been able to find too many pics. I'd definitely be interested in getting a TN KOTCS someday, but hadn't really thought too much about getting an LC done by Tony.
Bear in mind Tony has personally examined the Smithsonian jacket as part of his Indy4 work. And yes, everything I've seen and heard about Magnoli's LC is really good as well.

Are you certain? The jacket he replicated for CS was a non screen used LC prototype. Not the Smithsonian jacket.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:45 am

Kt Templar wrote:
Yojimbo Jones wrote:
IndyOriginal wrote: To be quite honest, I'm not even close to being decided. Was actually thinking about getting a Magnoli LC in lamb, but haven't been able to find too many pics. I'd definitely be interested in getting a TN KOTCS someday, but hadn't really thought too much about getting an LC done by Tony.
Bear in mind Tony has personally examined the Smithsonian jacket as part of his Indy4 work. And yes, everything I've seen and heard about Magnoli's LC is really good as well.
Are you certain? The jacket he replicated for CS was a non screen used LC prototype. Not the Smithsonian jacket.

Yep. Smithsonian.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed May 27, 2009 5:01 am

So they gave him 2 jackets?

The proto that had facings on the zipper, and the Smithsonian that did not... in the same way that the LC screen used ones did not?

Citation please.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Wed May 27, 2009 5:27 am

Kt Templar wrote:So they gave him 2 jackets?

The proto that had facings on the zipper, and the Smithsonian that did not... in the same way that the LC screen used ones did not?

Citation please.

Personal conversation with myself ages ago.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed May 27, 2009 5:45 am

Yojimbo Jones wrote:
Personal conversation with myself ages ago.

What have I told you about talking with yourself?

He said before that he didn't know if it WAS the Smithsonian, he thought the old Keppler proto was the Smithsonian jacket for a while, maybe that was why he told you that.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Wed May 27, 2009 6:12 am

Kt Templar wrote:
Yojimbo Jones wrote:
Personal conversation with myself ages ago.
What have I told you about talking with yourself?

He said before that he didn't know if it WAS the Smithsonian, he thought the old Keppler proto was the Smithsonian jacket for a while, maybe that was why he told you that.

That's what happens when I try and write stuff on a Blackberry. Spend so much time trying to hit the right keys I don't check grammar!

Dunno. He seemed pretty sure when I spoke. I didn't really take note re story details because he was talking CS, etc and I was interested in turning the conversation to Raiders and his "jacket that matters".

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Wed May 27, 2009 8:16 am

I have a wested goat too, would love to see what it will look like in 10 years can you post a picture here on cow too.

IndyOriginal wrote:
Are you wanting to get a Wested or can you afford a Nowak?
To be quite honest, I'm not even close to being decided. Was actually thinking about getting a Magnoli LC in lamb, but haven't been able to find too many pics. I'd definitely be interested in getting a TN KOTCS someday, but hadn't really thought too much about getting an LC done by Tony.

I read that you have a 10 year old goatskin jacket.

I would be VERY interested in seeing it. I too have a wested goat ( the newer soft batch) and would be cool to see what I can expect from it in 10 years.
And Holt, I'll definitely try to PM you with some pics sometime after work this week, but i must say that my Wested has held up magnificently, except for some of the stitching around the pockets.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:27 pm

Interesting. That does not equate to what we heard from Bernie Pollack while pre- production was running, and in real time...not after the fact when memory tends to become 'creative' or confused.

He said it was obtained directly from Lucas and the Skywalker ranch warehouse when he, Spielberg, and Ford chose it themselves from a rack of jackets in storage there. That's the one that was taken to Western Costume and ran the gamet of jacket makers. The 'Smithsonian' jacket didn't even enter the conversation.

That said, if it WAS the Smithsonian jacket, then why didn't Peter Botwright recognize it as being one of his own jackets or was unable to duplicate his own work when he was presented the project at the time? That doesn't add up at all.

All that said, maybe we need to move this back on the rails and help this fellow get his answers before he orders his own jacket.

Regards! Michaelson

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:47 pm

One question I would have is as there are plenty of jackets in the Lucasfilm archives ("screen used" - "purchased by LFL" - and more), why outsource to a jacket they don't even "own" anymore? The Smithsonian jacket is owned by the Smithsonian (and therefore the U.S. people) and is currently on display (or was, not sure if it's still or not). Plus I'm sure there would be a ton of paperwork to fill out and red tape to remove it from the Smithsonian. Again, with a lot of jackets already at LFL's disposal, that seems off to me.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed May 27, 2009 5:49 pm

Kt Templar wrote:
Yojimbo Jones wrote:
IndyOriginal wrote: To be quite honest, I'm not even close to being decided. Was actually thinking about getting a Magnoli LC in lamb, but haven't been able to find too many pics. I'd definitely be interested in getting a TN KOTCS someday, but hadn't really thought too much about getting an LC done by Tony.
Bear in mind Tony has personally examined the Smithsonian jacket as part of his Indy4 work. And yes, everything I've seen and heard about Magnoli's LC is really good as well.
Are you certain? The jacket he replicated for CS was a non screen used LC prototype. Not the Smithsonian jacket.

Are you certain?

CM · Post by CM » Wed May 27, 2009 10:12 pm

Michaelson wrote:Interesting. That does not equate to what we heard from Bernie Pollack while pre- production was running, and in real time...not after the fact when memory tends to become 'creative' or confused.

He said it was obtained directly from Lucas and the Skywalker ranch warehouse when he, Spielberg, and Ford chose it themselves from a rack of jackets in storage there. That's the one that was taken to Western Costume and ran the gamet of jacket makers. The 'Smithsonian' jacket didn't even enter the conversation.

That said, if it WAS the Smithsonian jacket, then why didn't Peter Botwright recognize it as being one of his own jackets or was unable to duplicate his own work when he was presented the project at the time? That doesn't add up at all.

Regards! Michaelson

That's what I had read here too. Maybe he had both jackets... Mind you, as an LC owner made by Peter, it is obvious that he is having trouble re-producing his LC jacket. Maybe he should get Smith's jacket and start again...

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Thu May 28, 2009 2:43 am

RCSignals wrote:
Are you certain?

Yes. Pretty much. We have seen the pic of the Keppler Proto. It is significantly different to the Smithsonian.

Double stiched shoulders, pointy collar, zipper facings.

All CS jacket hallmarks.

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:23 am

I have a wested goat too, would love to see what it will look like in 10 years can you post a picture here on cow too.

Guys, been a rough week at work, so I'm sorry I haven't been able to post any pics yet, though I promise I will. And that leads me to something else that may interest you guys and will further reveal that when it comes to subtleties of the Indy Jacket, I'm still mostly in the dark. I was only like 11 or 12 years old when I purchased the Wested in 1999, and I distinctly remember emailing my order to Peter, and asking specifically for "what was used in the film (ROTLA)." As well, I distinctly remember, although I will admit I could be wrong, that he told me the goatskin was what was in the film, and that was what I was getting.

Now I was young, so I could be completely off in regards to my memory, but I'll look for the original packaging, emails included, which I do believe I have kept somewhere, and see if my memory is correct.

Could this be explained perhaps, by a period of time where it was believed that goatskin was used instead of lamb in ROTLA? I purchased the jacket in like 99 as I said so it would've been around that time period.

That being said, if I post pics of the jacket, which I will do anyway just to show you guys who are interested how it has held up, would you immediately be able to tell me if it's really goatskin as I remember? or lambskin as would've appeared in ROTLA?

Thanks for your interest guys, I'm glad I posted these Q's, simple as they may be.

Alexander

Post by **Holt** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:30 am

yes I can tell if its goat or lamb just by looking at pictures.

the older goatskin has a kinda pebbled like grain to it. and after dried up when caught in the rain it can tend to get a liitle hard surfacw to it. almost like a fish shell or basketball grit. but it softens up pretty quick.

lambskin is just smooth all the way with a nice lived in grain.

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:14 pm

WOW, this is a great thread!!!

I just want to take this opportunity to say to Holt....I LOVE YOUR AVATAR!!! Best I've seen in a while!

Post by **Holt** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:28 pm

Thanx

I love Superman, he is my hero. Nobody is superman but the late Mr.Reeves. Nobody!

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:33 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:Thanx

I love Superman, he is my hero. Nobody is superman but the late Mr.Reeves. Nobody!

Agreed!

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Fri May 29, 2009 10:23 pm

Alright guys,

Sorry for the delay....rough week, like I said.

As for the pics, I know they're.....shall we say, sub-par, but my girl left our other camera at her girlfriend's apartment, so I'm out of luck. Still, I'm really interested to see what you guys think.

Like I said, I bought the jacket in winter 98-99, and when I bought it I was sure it was goatskin, although I distinctly remember asking for goatskin, somehow or another.

In regards to how it has held up, I'll admit I only started wearing my jacket again like 3 or 4 years ago when I rekindled my love for all that is Indy, so it has not seen a full decade of constant use, probably more like 5 in use, 5 in a closet. As well, I"m sure you'll notice the cuffs are folded in. When taking measurements in 98, I wanted to ask for a jacket that would last, so I just used my father's measurements, and he has long arms (I don't know why, we're both 5 foot 7). I just folded the sleeves, always telling myself that I would take the jacket to some sort of tailor later and get it adjusted. Now I think I'll probably just get another Indy jacket with the correct measurements, and keep this one the way it is, even if it looks funny.

http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv59 ... CF2214.jpg

http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv59 ... CF2215.jpg

http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv59 ... CF2216.jpg

Here's a pic of the leather grain.....if you can make it out.
http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv59 ... CF2218.jpg

And here's a pic of the right pocket, one of the only areas of the jacket that shows any real wear, as the stitching is starting to come undone.
http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv59 ... CF2220.jpg

http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv59 ... CF2221.jpg

The bottom also shows some wear. Not much though.
http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv59 ... CF2224.jpg

Overall, goat or lamb, this jacket has held up tremendously considering what I've put it through, even in just 5 years.
The most SA ROTLA jacket or not, thank you Wested, and thank you Peter Botwright. And thanks guys for the interest.
Alexander

CM · Post by CM » Sat May 30, 2009 5:59 am

Indiana Holt wrote:Thanx

I love Superman, he is my hero. Nobody is superman but the late Mr.Reeves. Nobody!

Man, you got that right. He was AMAZING as old Supie.

Post by **Holt** » Sat May 30, 2009 8:21 am

Indyoriginal,

I think your jacket looks great, but I dont think it is goatskin, looks like the English Lambskin Peter used before.

and another thing that makes me think that it is, is that Peter didnt source goatskin until 2002/2003. all jackets before were offered in Lambskin. (wonder why I didnt think of that before.

)

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Sat May 30, 2009 10:58 am

Holt,

Thanks, i definitely think you're right, especially after looking through more posts with Goat jackets. I still don't understand why I was so sure that it was goatskin. I guess just confused.

Alexander

Simple Jacket Q's for Jacket Gurus

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