The Raiders fedora--how did it come to be?

[crismans]

I was reading over Erri's post on the Adventurer thread concerning the SOC fedora where he proposes that quite a bit of work went into the creation of that hat's "look". This got me to thinking again about the Raiders fedora and how it's distinctive trademarks came to be. Of course, I've read about Nadoolman looking over various hats to try to come up with the Raiders fedora. But even though there's still some mystery there, I'm not talking about the hat design or its making. I'm talking about the little touches such as the turn. Was this the result of a happy accident or did they purposefully turn it to get the distinct "bump and swoop". I have always thought it was an accident but now I'm not so sure. For example, you have the pronounced swoop on the right side of the Raven Bar hat. In the "Making of..." feature, it shows a shot where Ford is working with the hat and curling the right side to exaggerate the swoop. So obviously, there was some forethought there. I was wondering about other people's thoughts.

[RCSignals]

In photos of Ford putting he hat on, I see him holding at the front of the pinch, rather than by the brim.
I've often thought that is the real reason for the tight pinch, and possibly even the reason for the turn.

[crismans]

I've wondered how much Ford had to do with the look of the hat, including the turn. I've heard it proposed (and thought it myself) that maybe they had turned the hat so the brim warping would allow you to see Ford's face more in shots. But if this was the case, wouldn't Nadoolman have covered that aspect in her book? Maybe not, if that decision was made on set.

[BendingOak]

I've wondered how much Ford had to do with the look of the hat, including the turn. I've heard it proposed (and thought it myself) that maybe they had turned the hat so the brim warping would allow you to see Ford's face more in shots. But if this was the case, wouldn't Nadoolman have covered that aspect in her book? Maybe not, if that decision was made on set.

I really think the turn and most of what you see in the raiders hat was Nadoolman.

[DR Ulloa]

Noodleman knew every aspect of the hat that she wanted. She had it all planned out in her head. I'm sure she wanted the brim warp and simply thought of how to achieve it. The turn was a simple and effective way of having the brim warp. All credit must go to Noodleman, though I've heard that Swales was the one who came up with the dimensional cut for the hat.

Dave

[Tyderium]

I'm sure this has been dispelled with previously but I seem to remember reading somewhere that Ford turned the hat himself for a more secure fit thus resulting in the brim distortion, whether it was because the hat was slightly loose or to prevent it from so easily falling off his head I can't recall.

[Hollowpond]

I've always wondered how much of the Raiders hat was attributed to the fact that they were being handled by people who didn't know much about hats. If any of us could have been involved with the development of Raiders, how many of us would have put the turn in? How many of us would have put that razor sharp front crease in? (This is assuming we have no knowledge of the Raiders hat they used) Don't get me wrong...I LOVED what they did with it. I just wonder if some of the character given to the hat was somewhat serendipitous.

Travis

[Indy35]

I'm sure this has been dispelled with previously but I seem to remember reading somewhere that Ford turned the hat himself for a more secure fit thus resulting in the brim distortion, whether it was because the hat was slightly loose or to prevent it from so easily falling off his head I can't recall.

This is what i remember as well. And something tells me it came from the dvds somewhere, just like the stapling, which Ford did because the turn just wasn't enough.

[DR Ulloa]

The stapled hat was in LC. The LC hat had no turn.

Dave

[BendingOak]

I believe DL is the one who came up with the turn to get the Large brim out of Fords eye's ( so we could see them).

[Barcelona Jones]

I believe many of the hat details were NOT purposely designed, and that much of the latter lore is after-the-fact theorizing (by the fans) and made-up explanation (by those actually involved), intended to "fit" and "put together" what, in all probability, was never preconceived.

I would say a strong support for my belief is that those hat details were mostly disregarded in the 2nd and 3rd movies. Had it existed a real planning, they would have kept similar standards in the follow-up movies - instead, the hat became a very much nondescript fedora hat, with none of the defining/individualizing characteristics.

BTW, I do not buy any theories about the hat suffering an evolution, because the 2nd movie is a prequel and the like. Again, I have read such ideas here, even to the extent of tracing a timeline of the hat from the Young Indy series on. No cigar. I just think the hat design n the YIJ series enjoyed even less care than in the follow-up movies. It is even MORE nondescript.

The only movie the hat was really intended to be cared about was the 4th, and it was because a fan (Fedora) took care of it - and, he was thwarted by the very movie people! So much for the careful thinking behind the hat...

I'm sorry, but this is what I think. I believe that this most revered hat came up mostly by chance, and was NOT recognized, or kept as, the unique item it was... except by fans.

Let the flak be if you want.

[RCSignals]

I don't disagree with you Barcelona Jones. See my post above.

One way to get a razor crease in the front of a hat is to put it on by grasping the crown the way Ford does.
Seems not every hat on screen has the razor crease, and I have a hard time believing that all the variations of hat seen are by design.
But who knows, maybe they were that anal about the hat look during production.

[crismans]

A very good possibility, Barcelona. But the jackets underwent a similar evolution even though, like the Raiders fedora, most fans like the first jacket the best. Each costume designer wanted to make their own mark on the costume which can account for some of the change. Also, from Fedora's posts, it's possible that Swales bespoke the first hat but substituted a Poet model for the 2nd and 3rd films (if my memory serves).

[BendingOak]

BJ, I used to think the same thing but have changed my mind. The reason those hats ( TOD and LC). Didn't have those extra little things was because we didn't have DL working on it anymore (and a big loss not having her work on the costume if you ask me). Seeing some of the interviews of hers had changed my mind because she was thinking about these little things to give the hat. The other thing that changed my mind about it is that if we had one hat with the turn only then I would say it was not done on purpose. All of the hats are that way but one.

[DR Ulloa]

Every costume designer has a set vision that they want to carry out. They are meticulous and see every little detail to the last. That is why they are in the business. Powell didn't see Indy's hat the way Noodleman did. He saw a much more common 30's fedora while Noodleman had this very loud hat in mind. Nothing is done by accident in film. Everything is very carefully planned out. From the book laying on a table to the angle it is placed, everything last detail is thought out. Why wouldn't the costume, something that we are constantly looking at and in the foreground, receive the same attention? Whatever teh reason, Deb Noodleman wanted Indy's hat to be turned. We have everything from the shirt and pants he wears to the very belt he fixes them with to thank her for. So do we with the hat.

Dave