A Tony Nowak Indy 1 Jacket story…

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:30 pm

Actually, NB, there have been several.

Here's one:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32991&hilit=Magnoli+jacket

Regards! Michaelson

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:27 pm

Dutch, TN's jackets might be expensive, but how do you know he doesn't have a huge overhead?

Even if he doesn't, so what? If that's what he's asking and people are buying than it's simply free market economy at work, nothing wrong with that.

We, as fans of Indiana Jones, have absolutely no say in what anyone asks for their product because we simply don't have the right to tell people what to do. Being fans and gearheads won't change that one bit.

Regards, Geert

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:48 pm

gwyddion wrote:
Dutch, TN's jackets might be expensive, but how do you know he doesn't have a huge overhead?

Even if he doesn't, so what? If that's what he's asking and people are buying than it's simply free market economy at work, nothing wrong with that.

We, as fans of Indiana Jones, have absolutely no say in what anyone asks for their product because we simply don't have the right to tell people what to do. Being fans and gearheads won't change that one bit.

Regards, Geert

You know, you are right on this. Pricing is all about what the market will pay. If no one was buying these jackets at these prices then two things would happen, price would come down or TN just wouldn't make them. Clearly people are buying them.

While it's true that overhead does tend to dictate price, there are other ways to look at this too.

For example, and mind you, I have no idea what TN's overhead is, but some people charge more for their time and work on less of a volume.

It doesn't really matter though. I may question a $1000 jacket, but I am not questioning TN's right to ask that price. That's his deal and if people want to pay it, then what business is it of anyone else?

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:41 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:
RCSignals wrote:The Belstaff is or was more. There are many other non-Indy leather jackets that retail for more as well.

Good thing you have a lot of choices.
Yes you are right the Belstaff jacket is also very expensive but that can be explained:
1) They have huge expensive showrooms to pay for.
2) They pay a big license fee.
3) They have big advertising budgets and fashion shows to pay for.

Belstaff may be quite expensive , but they have huge overheads.

So it has nothing to do with jacket quality?

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:47 pm

RC, maybe you could start a list of all the TN customers who DON'T think they got their money's worth

....probably won't be too long......

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:43 pm

Thanks for deleting my reply yet leaving those of the fishing. I think it's great to constantly cry over the price a man charges for his own product. Makes it worth all that much more! Viva envy!

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:54 pm

Zendragon wrote: You know, you are right on this. Pricing is all about what the market will pay. If no one was buying these jackets at these prices then two things would happen, price would come down or TN just wouldn't make them. Clearly people are buying them.

While it's true that overhead does tend to dictate price, there are other ways to look at this too.

For example, and mind you, I have no idea what TN's overhead is, but some people charge more for their time and work on less of a volume.

It doesn't really matter though. I may question a $1000 jacket, but I am not questioning TN's right to ask that price. That's his deal and if people want to pay it, then what business is it of anyone else?

Having spoken to TN, I think I'm safe in saying if no one was buying, he just wouldn't make them.
Since these are all individually made to rder, he certainly wouldn't be stuck with inventory.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:50 pm

All in all, I think Tony has pretty good value. I was looking into a G&B goat (another fine jacket) and they've raised their prices to $488.00. Add to that their custom work charge at $150.00 and you're already up to $638.00. You're beginning to get pretty darn close to Tony's prices. Now Tony will fit you and make it from any leather you can imagine, even to the point of going to look for what you're asking for. Pretty nice.

I am biased as I think my experience with him was outstanding (to the point that the above argument may lead me to order a goat jacket from him). Now I'm not so biased that I don't appreciate other people's work (I did order a Todd's plus size just recently to see what they're like).

However, Tony's customer service is awfully great, with a great quality jacket, and the chance to have something made by a guy who's work was on the screen to boot.

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:03 pm

RCSignals wrote:
Zendragon wrote: You know, you are right on this. Pricing is all about what the market will pay. If no one was buying these jackets at these prices then two things would happen, price would come down or TN just wouldn't make them. Clearly people are buying them.

While it's true that overhead does tend to dictate price, there are other ways to look at this too.

For example, and mind you, I have no idea what TN's overhead is, but some people charge more for their time and work on less of a volume.

It doesn't really matter though. I may question a $1000 jacket, but I am not questioning TN's right to ask that price. That's his deal and if people want to pay it, then what business is it of anyone else?
Having spoken to TN, I think I'm safe in saying if no one was buying, he just wouldn't make them.
Since these are all individually made to rder, he certainly wouldn't be stuck with inventory.

Exactly.

moviematt1989 · Post by **moviematt1989** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:20 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:Regardless of price, Matt, do you know of any other vendor who would go to such lengths to satisfy a customer for such a mistake? And the mistake had nothing to do with fit or specs, only the leather used. If you look at the track records of other vendors (and I'm not saying this to start a flame war, so don't go there, folks), some end up paying more for their jackets to rectify a mistake when taking restocking fees, returns shipping, other costs, etc., into the equation. And even then, they still don't always end up with what they asked for. But there are plenty of jackets from many vendors and with a wide range or prices, to boot. So you don't have to get a Nowak. You can get a G&B, US Wings, Wested, Todds, or even CostumeBase (I think).

I feel ya. I think maybe I've left out my opinion here. I think Nowak offers the BEST jacket available. I also, never made an opinion that stated I was shopping around. My speculation was only that first point. That's all it was, speculation, not even a statement really.

I'm just desperately trying to wrap my head around (and purely from a marketing and business perspective, not as a buyer) why they are so much. If I could, I'd but one.

Matt

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:26 pm

moviematt1989 wrote: I'm just desperately trying to wrap my head around (and purely from a marketing and business perspective, not as a buyer) why they are so much. If I could, I'd but one.

If you compare the price to other totally custom jackets they aren't so much. That's a point I've been trying to get across to people for a few months now.

Are they pricey jackets? Yes, but not crazy expensive when you look at the alternatives and consider how many years of use you'll get from one. Then again, I went with goat because (IMO!) I felt I would get more use out of it in the long run.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:06 pm

For what it's worth, I personally think of Tony's jackets as the Indygear equivalent of a Ralph Lauren leather jacket. Considering that Ralph Lauren's off-the-rack leather jackets range anywhere from US$1500 upwards, I suppose it could be considered a BARGAIN to get Tony's tailored Indy jackets for HALF that amount. Also, consider that if you do shop around for other leather jacket makers in the L.A. area in a similar quality range, most (if not all) of them would have prices starting at US$900.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:41 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:Yes you are right the Belstaff jacket is also very expensive but that can be explained:
1) They have huge expensive showrooms to pay for.
2) They pay a big license fee.
3) They have big advertising budgets and fashion shows to pay for.

Belstaff may be quite expensive , but they have huge overheads.

Dutch, I am qualified to explain all of the factors between Tony's sort of business model and those outlined above so that you understand. However, I will have to charge you $250/hr for my time as that is what my other clients all pay. If I DON'T charge that amount, I'm LOSING money; because your taking some other person's spot who WOULD have paid me that much.

See how that works?

But seriously Dutch, this is a gear forum. If you are seriously questioning TN's pricing choices, you probably should go to a marketing forum. If not, you need to come to terms with your inner angst as to why you are CONSTANTLY doing some serious rationalising to hide the fact that to yourself, you know that deep down, you really want one!

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:04 pm

Yojimbo Jones wrote:
Dutch_jones wrote:Yes you are right the Belstaff jacket is also very expensive but that can be explained:
1) They have huge expensive showrooms to pay for.
2) They pay a big license fee.
3) They have big advertising budgets and fashion shows to pay for.

Belstaff may be quite expensive , but they have huge overheads.
Dutch, I am qualified to explain all of the factors between Tony's sort of business model and those outlined above so that you understand. However, I will have to charge you $250/hr for my time as that is what my other clients all pay. If I DON'T charge that amount, I'm LOSING money; because your taking some other person's spot who WOULD have paid me that much.

See how that works?

But seriously Dutch, this is a gear forum. If you are seriously questioning TN's pricing choices, you probably should go to a marketing forum. If not, you need to come to terms with your inner angst as to why you are CONSTANTLY doing some serious rationalising to hide the fact that to yourself, you know that deep down, you really want one!

I might of missed it, but was it Dutch that was questioning the price? I just saw him referencing Belstaff overhead as part of why they sell them for the prices that they do.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:09 am

Stop the madness. Zen, do you really need to keep this going and going and going and going...?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:44 am

Dutch was talking about Belstaff and noting the pretty valid reasons why they are more expensive than everyone else.

This is basic economics. Take, for instance, a pack of Bayer Asprin and a pack of supermarket generic Asprin. The supermarket version will cost you a fraction of the price of the branded version. The pill is chemically identical. You are paying more for the Bayer name, marketing, packaging etc, etc. The supermarket version may have other factors allowing it to be sold cheaper, economies of scale, place of manufacture, it may even be a loss leader.

Now how does this compare to jackets?

1) Undoubtably, certain makers have some economies of scale, ie the ones that make and sell many jackets in standard sizes.

2) Many do zero marketing so that is not a factor for them, for Belstaff it is a significant percentage of their activity. They do a vast amount of product placement, here is hardly a modern action film where they don't have a presence it seems.

3) Some have outsourced jackets for lower cost and have passed on that saving to the customer, to some degree. Some outsourced and charged the same for them. With increasing materials costs, it sometimes is a way to maintain your margin whist not having to increase the cost to the customer.

4) Belstaff is expensive because of it's name, they position themselves as a luxury item and may you pay extra for it.

5) Not many of our jacket makers do much in the way of 'packaging' for their jackets. With one or 2 exceptions, the ones that give free hats and stuff, that will be factored into the price somehow. There is no such thing as a free hat!

6) Belstaff would have paid a big fee to Lucas for the for the right to make and sell their "Indiana Jones" branded jacket. With all the Indy 'trade dress' pics/logos etc. That has to be included in the price too.

In the end it's not the 'favourites' game here. All his points are valid. Belstaff is expensive, some of the cost is due to the nature of their business and some is the 'exclusivity factor'.

Do I like Belstaff's price, heck no!

Did I try one on, sure.

Did I buy one, heck no!

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:08 am

Zendragon wrote: I might of missed it, but was it Dutch that was questioning the price? I just saw him referencing Belstaff overhead as part of why they sell them for the prices that they do.

I guess you really did miss it then

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:18 am

Kt Templar wrote:Dutch was talking about Belstaff and noting the pretty valid reasons why they are more expensive than everyone else.

This is basic economics. Take, for instance, a pack of Bayer Asprin and a pack of supermarket generic Asprin. The supermarket version will cost you a fraction of the price of the branded version. The pill is chemically identical. You are paying more for the Bayer name, marketing, packaging etc, etc. The supermarket version may have other factors allowing it to be sold cheaper, economies of scale, place of manufacture, it may even be a loss leader.

Now how does this compare to jackets?

1) Undoubtably, certain makers have some economies of scale, ie the ones that make and sell many jackets in standard sizes.

2) Many do zero marketing so that is not a factor for them, for Belstaff it is a significant percentage of their activity. They do a vast amount of product placement, here is hardly a modern action film where they don't have a presence it seems.

3) Some have outsourced jackets for lower cost and have passed on that saving to the customer, to some degree. Some outsourced and charged the same for them. With increasing materials costs, it sometimes is a way to maintain your margin whist not having to increase the cost to the customer.

4) Belstaff is expensive because of it's name, they position themselves as a luxury item and may you pay extra for it.

5) Not many of our jacket makers do much in the way of 'packaging' for their jackets. With one or 2 exceptions, the ones that give free hats and stuff, that will be factored into the price somehow. There is no such thing as a free hat!

In the end it's not the 'favourites' game here. All his points are valid. Belstaff is expensive, some of the cost is due to the nature of their business and some is the 'exclusivity factor'.

Do I like Belstaff's price, heck no!

Did I try one on, sure.

Did I buy one, heck no!

So then again, with all this about Belstaff, I have to ask

So it has nothing to do with jacket quality?

Really if Belstaff is spending all this money on advertising and product placement, for me personally they are missing the mark.

They really lost me in naming their '50s replica motorcycle jacket the 'Che Guevara Replica Jacket'. For me that's honouring an individual that does not deserve honour.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:35 am

Yes, quality does play a part of course.

But, as others have said each maker also fits in a niche. It is up to the buyer to decide if they think the product, including all the ephemera that comes with the marketing, fits the price point and the niche.

orb · Post by **orb** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:51 am

I just have a question regarding the Mutt jacket. Why does the Belstaff Mutt jacket looks 1:1 like it was in the movie and the TN Mutt jacket looks a bit different? When TN is the original maker why is his jacket different?
There is something very strange going on. When you watch CS you really see how much the Mutt jacket drapes and it does never look like a real heavier biker leather. So maybe Tony just made the prototype and another company replicated it with special specs for the movie?
According to Tony, he is the jacket maker but I really doubt that his Mutt jacket was in the movie!

Regards

orb

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:53 am

I agree with all your points, KT. But you and I know Belstaff was brought into this conversation to compare to Nowak. And to what end? That is the "real" issue here - and that's the reason why I resisted writing what would have been a very similar response to yours.

Besides, comparing / guessing at business models without the appropriate in-house data is pointless, and certainly beside what I'm sure is the point of COW.

After all, it'd be like trying to use screencaps to measure a jacket - Pointless. But without even having the screencaps to work with!

What are you paying for with Nowak? I've said it before - total peace of mind.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:58 am

orb wrote:I just have a question regarding the Mutt jacket. Why does the Belstaff Mutt jacket looks 1:1 like it was in the movie and the TN Mutt jacket looks a bit different? When TN is the original maker why is his jacket different?

How so? Can you give examples of difference apart from drape? The idea's just a bit odd - after all, that's what they hired him for, ahead of even the Indy jacket.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:35 am

orb wrote:I just have a question regarding the Mutt jacket. Why does the Belstaff Mutt jacket looks 1:1 like it was in the movie and the TN Mutt jacket looks a bit different? When TN is the original maker why is his jacket different?
There is something very strange going on. When you watch CS you really see how much the Mutt jacket drapes and it does never look like a real heavier biker leather. So maybe Tony just made the prototype and another company replicated it with special specs for the movie?
According to Tony, he is the jacket maker but I really doubt that his Mutt jacket was in the movie!

Regards

orb

Being the owner of two Mutt jackets, I'm afraid I don't quite agree. However, when I first recieved my first 'Mutt' jacket, I thought a couple of details were off (like the placement of the studs), but when I recieved my second Mutt jacket, I realized that it was due to each jacket being hand-made, and hence as is to be expected in hand-made goods, no two items will ever be exactly alike.

As far as drape goes, I personally think that my jacket drapes exactly like what I see on film. I fall more along the lines of slim to average like Shia, and perhaps that has a little something to do with it? Also remember that these jackets are distressed by the studio later on, perhaps letting them have more 'give'.

From what I see though, everything right down to Tony's lining (which if memory serves, he mentioned was made at his studio) is spot on to what we see on film:

http://www.theraider.net/films/indy4/ga ... ij4_60.jpg
http://www.theraider.net/films/indy4/ga ... ij4_67.jpg

I'd be surprised if the jackets also didn't make it into the film on a logistical basis, seeing as how he made probably a dozen or so jackets for the film, as well as stunt jackets and such. If they wanted him to produce a jacket for a prototype, then certainly it would be in the low single digits, and they'd most likely wouldn't need him to also produce stunt jackets as well.

Of course, it isn't exactly far-fetched to imagine the scenario that you described, Orb. For example, in Quantum of Solace, Tom Ford was given the licensing rights to James Bond's wardrobe, and because of that, they decided to make what was pretty much an exact replica of Bond's polo shirt from the previous film. Tom Ford also pretty much copied a pair of Oliver People's aviators, which really confused alot of 'gear' enthusiasts into which was the real deal...

However, I just don't think that is the case with the 'Mutt' jacket. For one, it seems that most of the official publications are backing Nowak as the leather tailor for the Joneses, while in the Bond scenario, sources were quick to point out that Bond's gear was indeed Tom Ford's. Why? I would think that this might have to do with marketing; if they don't officially announce that Tom Ford made Bond's gear officially, then nobody would be buying them. Same thing with Belstaff- if memory serves, pretty much all of Belstaff's promotional material says that they are offering items modelled after the ones worn in Indy IV, not exact, authentic copies:

Belstaff will bring Indy’s signature style to fans and collectors by providing high-end leather jackets modelled after those worn in the film. Drawing on an 80-year heritage, Belstaff additionally collaborated with Lucasfilm Ltd. to ensure the authenticity – and elegance – of Indy’s iconic look. In addition to the stylish and extraordinarily durable “Indy” jacket, Belstaff has also developed a biker jacket like the one worn by the hero’s latest sidekick, Mutt, played in the film by rising star Shia LaBeouf.

If they were the vendors for the jackets worn on screen, I would imagine Lucas Co. would recognize them as such, and/or at the very least, Belstaff themselves would announce as much instead of referring to their products as basically glorified knock-offs.

orb · Post by **orb** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:42 am

Castor Dioscuri wrote:
orb wrote:I just have a question regarding the Mutt jacket. Why does the Belstaff Mutt jacket looks 1:1 like it was in the movie and the TN Mutt jacket looks a bit different? When TN is the original maker why is his jacket different?
There is something very strange going on. When you watch CS you really see how much the Mutt jacket drapes and it does never look like a real heavier biker leather. So maybe Tony just made the prototype and another company replicated it with special specs for the movie?
According to Tony, he is the jacket maker but I really doubt that his Mutt jacket was in the movie!

Regards

orb
From what I see though, everything right down to Tony's lining (which if memory serves, he mentioned was made at his studio) is spot on to what we see on film:

http://www.theraider.net/films/indy4/ga ... ij4_60.jpg
http://www.theraider.net/films/indy4/ga ... ij4_67.jpg

Hey Castor.
The pics you posted aren't from the movie itself.
I'm just talking about the jacket in the movie.
So let's call it the HERO jacket

Regards

orb

orb · Post by **orb** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:53 am

Yojimbo Jones wrote:
orb wrote:I just have a question regarding the Mutt jacket. Why does the Belstaff Mutt jacket looks 1:1 like it was in the movie and the TN Mutt jacket looks a bit different? When TN is the original maker why is his jacket different?
How so? Can you give examples of difference apart from drape? The idea's just a bit odd - after all, that's what they hired him for, ahead of even the Indy jacket.

http://www.filmjackets.com/FILM_JACKETS ... tt-008.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l150/ ... Cover2.jpg

When you look at the side where the PINS are placed. This side is much smaller on the TN jacket.
Also the Collar seems a bit wider too.
Here's a bad pic of my TN Mutt jacket. Just compare it by yourself.
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/big/7426-1f.jpg

Regards

orb

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:57 am

Good point, Orb. However, I still stand by the rest of what I said earlier, pictures withstanding.

At any rate, it would be hard to demonstrate how the jacket drapes from screenshots, as most of it seems to depend on the jacket while in motion. But like I said earlier as well, when I watch the movie, the jacket really seems to drape like the one I have.

As for the collar details, also like I said earlier, each jacket is hand made, so no two jackets are alike. In fact, on my two jackets (which are both the same size) the collar differs from jacket to jacket. Basically, details like these differ from jacket to jacket because of the handmade nature of them. However, one way I tried to cheat around this on one of my jackets was by folding the collar further back, making the collar appear wider.

Naturally, your jacket wont have the exact same details on Shia's jacket, especially considering that my two jackets which should be the same size still differ in the small details. But I pretty much touched upon that on my first post...

orb · Post by **orb** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:01 am

Screenshots aren't good. Watch the movie. The leather of the Mutt jacket drapes like a lamb.
Maybe I see a ghost? But when you watch the scene were Indy & Mutt are in that coffeeshop you can see the jacket really drapes like a lighter leather. Maybe you got a different leather then I? My leather is a heavy biker leather. Much heavier then the CS Indy jacket and at the moment there doesn't drape a bit. According to Tony the sleeves won't wrinkle very much, the sleeves tend to get "LONGER" with wear.

Regards

orb

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:15 am

orb wrote:Screenshots aren't good. Watch the movie. The leather of the Mutt jacket drapes like a lamb.
Maybe I see a ghost? But when you watch the scene were Indy & Mutt are in that coffeeshop you can see the jacket really drapes like a lighter leather. Maybe you got a different leather then I? My leather is a heavy biker leather. Much heavier then the CS Indy jacket and at the moment there doesn't drape a bit. According to Tony the sleeves won't wrinkle very much, the sleeves tend to get "LONGER" with wear.

Regards

orb

Maybe I'm not phrasing myself clearly, but please read what I just wrote:

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Good point, Orb. However, I still stand by the rest of what I said earlier, pictures withstanding.

At any rate, it would be hard to demonstrate how the jacket drapes from screenshots, as most of it seems to depend on the jacket while in motion. But like I said earlier as well, when I watch the movie, the jacket really seems to drape like the one I have.

When I said most of it seems to depend on the jacket while in motion, I am referring to the fact that most of the DRAPE of the jacket depends on the jacket when in motion. So I am agreeing with you that screenshots are in no way definitive.

And I hate to repeat myself, but I also did say a couple of posts ago:

Castor Dioscuri wrote:As far as drape goes, I personally think that my jacket drapes exactly like what I see on film. I fall more along the lines of slim to average like Shia, and perhaps that has a little something to do with it? Also remember that these jackets are distressed by the studio later on, perhaps letting them have more 'give'.

orb · Post by **orb** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:37 am

Castor Dioscuri wrote:
orb wrote:Screenshots aren't good. Watch the movie. The leather of the Mutt jacket drapes like a lamb.
Maybe I see a ghost? But when you watch the scene were Indy & Mutt are in that coffeeshop you can see the jacket really drapes like a lighter leather. Maybe you got a different leather then I? My leather is a heavy biker leather. Much heavier then the CS Indy jacket and at the moment there doesn't drape a bit. According to Tony the sleeves won't wrinkle very much, the sleeves tend to get "LONGER" with wear.

Regards

orb
Maybe I'm not phrasing myself clearly, but please read what I just wrote:

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Good point, Orb. However, I still stand by the rest of what I said earlier, pictures withstanding.

At any rate, it would be hard to demonstrate how the jacket drapes from screenshots, as most of it seems to depend on the jacket while in motion. But like I said earlier as well, when I watch the movie, the jacket really seems to drape like the one I have.
When I said most of it seems to depend on the jacket while in motion, I am referring to the fact that most of the DRAPE of the jacket depends on the jacket when in motion. So I am agreeing with you that screenshots are in no way definitive.

And I hate to repeat myself, but I also did say a couple of posts ago:

Castor Dioscuri wrote:As far as drape goes, I personally think that my jacket drapes exactly like what I see on film. I fall more along the lines of slim to average like Shia, and perhaps that has a little something to do with it? Also remember that these jackets are distressed by the studio later on, perhaps letting them have more 'give'.

Castor I have read all your inputs. But I see this thing a bit different. I'm also slim, I even got the same jacket size as Shia except for the length (1inch longer).
The jacket is a 38. I even got enough space to wear something underneath and I never see my jacket the way as it was in the movie. It looked kinda loose on Shia in the most scenes.
I'm not bashing Tony for this. I don't need a 1:1 SA Mutt jacket at all. I just wanted to point out what I think it is and the Belstaff jacket looks more SA imo. There were somewhere around a thread with pictures of the Belstaff Mutt jacket on a mannequin. But I couldn't find it anymore.

Regards

orb

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:03 am

orb wrote:
Castor Dioscuri wrote:
orb wrote:Screenshots aren't good. Watch the movie. The leather of the Mutt jacket drapes like a lamb.
Maybe I see a ghost? But when you watch the scene were Indy & Mutt are in that coffeeshop you can see the jacket really drapes like a lighter leather. Maybe you got a different leather then I? My leather is a heavy biker leather. Much heavier then the CS Indy jacket and at the moment there doesn't drape a bit. According to Tony the sleeves won't wrinkle very much, the sleeves tend to get "LONGER" with wear.

Regards

orb
Maybe I'm not phrasing myself clearly, but please read what I just wrote:

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Good point, Orb. However, I still stand by the rest of what I said earlier, pictures withstanding.

At any rate, it would be hard to demonstrate how the jacket drapes from screenshots, as most of it seems to depend on the jacket while in motion. But like I said earlier as well, when I watch the movie, the jacket really seems to drape like the one I have.
When I said most of it seems to depend on the jacket while in motion, I am referring to the fact that most of the DRAPE of the jacket depends on the jacket when in motion. So I am agreeing with you that screenshots are in no way definitive.

And I hate to repeat myself, but I also did say a couple of posts ago:

Castor Dioscuri wrote:As far as drape goes, I personally think that my jacket drapes exactly like what I see on film. I fall more along the lines of slim to average like Shia, and perhaps that has a little something to do with it? Also remember that these jackets are distressed by the studio later on, perhaps letting them have more 'give'.
Castor I have read all your inputs. But I see this thing a bit different. I'm also slim, I even got the same jacket size as Shia except for the length (1inch longer).
The jacket is a 38. I even got enough space to wear something underneath and I never see my jacket the way as it was in the movie. It looked kinda loose on Shia in the most scenes.
I'm not bashing Tony for this. I don't need a 1:1 SA Mutt jacket at all. I just wanted to point out what I think it is and the Belstaff jacket looks more SA imo. There were somewhere around a thread with pictures of the Belstaff Mutt jacket on a mannequin. But I couldn't find it anymore.

Regards

orb

I know the pics you speak of, I'll try to find them. They were taken from the belstaff shop in london.

the above two pics are from the London store , the bottom ones from the Rome store.

orb · Post by **orb** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:23 am

Thanks Dutch_jones!

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:25 am

need any movie pics of the jacket too?

orb · Post by **orb** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:40 am

Yeah why not!
I will put in a few by myself maybe you got some more.

http://www.filmjackets.com/FILM_JACKETS ... tt-008.jpg

http://www.tonynowak.com/images/stories ... id_400.jpg

http://shia-labeouf-saves-the-world.com ... ycine1.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l150/ ... Cover2.jpg

I couldn't find more for now. I'm not at home right now.

Thanks!

Regards

orb

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:15 am

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:33 am

Re the collar, I have owned one of these Brando jackets in the past. Like any leather jacket, the collar will fold wherever it wants to unless you train it. But this situation is exacerbated by the lapel design of this jacket style, in the way that yours does. (IE it wants to fold "early") Just wet it and mould it to fold where you want it to all the way around and you should be good to go!

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:19 am

I didn't think the jackets were studio distressed. There was something published about the Mutt jacket, where they wanted it to look broken in, but didn't want to hand-distress each one. They tried the water soaking thing but didn't like what happened to the jacket's integrity. Finally, Tony soaked the leather and then built the jacket and they were happy with the income. It might be interesting to see if Tony did the same thing for the fan-jackets...

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:48 am

Orb, Dutch,.......Have mercy on us mere mortals for the love of God, PLEASE no more Shia pics......I'm afraid of bad dreams involving the infamous 'Monkey Swing'........

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:50 am

Hatch wrote:Orb, Dutch,.......Have mercy on us mere mortals for the love of God, PLEASE no more Shia pics......I'm afraid of bad dreams involving the infamous' Monkey Swing'........

WHY MAN !!! why did you bring that up !!! !i had forgotten about that !

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:34 pm

Raider S wrote:Stop the madness. Zen, do you really need to keep this going and going and going and going...?

What exactly am I keeping going? Sorry, I am unclear.

If people want this to stop, then stop responding to other peoples post, better yet, stop posting negative stuff about people, calling people names, ragging on this jacket vendor or that one, and just go back to debating jacket details.

It's not hard, but we are ALL contributing to it, even you Raider S. And, even me.

I am happy to get back to just talking about gear if you guys think you can handle that.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:11 pm

Considering the subject title of this thread is 'The TN Indy 1', maybe it's best to drop the Belstaff discussion etc. and move back to topic.

Regards! Michaelson

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:39 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:I'm afraid of bad dreams involving the infamous' Monkey Swing'........ WHY MAN !!! why did you bring that up !!! !i had forgotten about that !

Never forget.

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:18 pm

Michaelson wrote:Considering the subject title of this thread is 'The TN Indy 1', maybe it's best to drop the Belstaff discussion etc. and move back to topic.

Regards! Michaelson

Not sure why this sort of thing always seems to happen to poor Tony's threads!

Anyway, I posted this story before, but it got buried elsewhere, and I think this is the appropriate place for it. It doesn't have much to do with Indy, but has everything to do with What kind of guy Tony is.

The zipper pull on my CS jacket broke. I sent it back to Tony, and he fixed it. No big deal.

During our conversation, we got to talking about his good friend Arnold, and I mentioned how I used to lift weights as a youth, and had followed Arnold's career from back in the late 60's, when I used to buy Joe Weider'sbodybuilding magazines.

Out of the blue, Tony said he was going to send me one of his Arnold Classic jackets, for free-- just because I remembered "the old days." Before I even had a chance to respond beyond a surprised gasp, the conversation veered to our love of old B&W movies.

That was late last summer. As time went by and I didn't receive the jacket, I got puzzled and, I admit, a little disappointed, and a few weeks ago I finally decided to email Tony about it just to clear up the situation.

He called and said that he'd simply forgotten, and asked for my jacket size. I said that it was alright-- he did not have to send me a free jacket as I was already a happy customer. He told me, no, he had made me the promise, and he wanted to follow through with it.

Well, I ended up getting not one, but TWO free Arnold Classics-- one for me, and one as an Easter present for a relative of mine. Needless to say, I was thrilled speechless!

I have to admit that I was skeptical until I actually saw the tracking number on the Fedex website-- after all, who does things like this these days? I thought Tony was putting me on!

But no, my cousin Jim and I were the ones who were putting on our wonderful new jackets, and because of Tony, Easter felt more like Christmas this year.

By the way, they are terrific jackets made of black flight nylon with leather collars and pocket trimmings, and knit cuffs. They are worth about $150 each, and fit both of us perfectly.

"Thank you" just doesn't seem an adequate response-- I'm still thrilled speechless.

Jack

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:20 pm

Zendragon wrote: I am happy to get back to just talking about gear if you guys think you can handle that.

If the continuous trolling would stop, we could talk about gear. We all know the price of various jackets and we all know it's up to the people who make and sell jackets to determine what they sell for. It's been nearly a year these jackets have been available, so the sticker shock that's such a big deal for a couple people is a very dead horse.

Back to original question, if you've done business with Nowak or spoken with him it wouldn't seem remotely strange or out of character for him to give a guy a free jacket because of a mistake. There's a lot of stories on this board about people getting Arnold Classic jackets, shirts, etc. just because he was doing something nice for his customer. I think some cynical folks want to pretend his customer service is some horrible plot to force people to buy things they really don't want.

Maybe people don't realize Tony runs a small business, a small shop. He's not importing jackets and doesn't have a dozen people sitting at sewing machines. He's making these Indy jackets one at a time and isn't cutting corners simply to push more out the door.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:02 pm

Raider S ,maybe you could start a thread for TN customers who don't think they got their money's worth with his jackets.....it'll probably die pretty soon.......

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:35 pm

BTW, see viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40223 for pics of a Screen Used Mutt jacket that's about to go for auction.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:48 pm

Gotta say that's an awfully nice hide on that Mutt jacket... a nice matte black cowhide, isn't it? I love the National Honor Society pin! Now $6000 to $8000, that's a lot for a jacket! But for original screen used stuff, understandable I guess.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:49 pm

Baldwyn wrote:BTW, see viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40223 for pics of a Screen Used Mutt jacket that's about to go for auction.

Wasn't one raffled a the last QM summit?

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:53 pm

I was hoping to divert the conversation to a different thread, and keep this one on-topic

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:57 pm

Baldwyn wrote:I was hoping to divert the conversation to a different thread, and keep this one on-topic

see post in other thread.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:32 pm

orb wrote: Castor I have read all your inputs. But I see this thing a bit different. I'm also slim, I even got the same jacket size as Shia except for the length (1inch longer).
The jacket is a 38. I even got enough space to wear something underneath and I never see my jacket the way as it was in the movie. It looked kinda loose on Shia in the most scenes.
I'm not bashing Tony for this. I don't need a 1:1 SA Mutt jacket at all. I just wanted to point out what I think it is and the Belstaff jacket looks more SA imo. There were somewhere around a thread with pictures of the Belstaff Mutt jacket on a mannequin. But I couldn't find it anymore.

Regards

orb

Please don't misunderstand me, I am intentionally trying to keep my own subjectivity when it comes to vendors out of the equation, and am trying hard to keep from 'defending' one vendor over another. I also must must apologize to you Orb, as I believe I have come off a little aggressive due to it being late when I posted this, and I wasn't quite sure if I was wording my posts clearly.

In my opinion though, I still stand by what I had said earlier about the jacket, although I do respect yours as well. For what it's worth though, if you have a chance, you might want to take a look at the book 'Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: A Photographic Journal'. They have some pretty good photographs in there taken on-set, with close-ups of Shia in his jacket filming various scenes, which show off the jacket very well. It's just that I feel that my jacket reacts spot-on to what I percieve in those pictures, and to my eyes at least, it looks like a similar weight.