It is impossible to own a Raiders HJ.

[gwyddion]

What? Have you never received a receipt that did not perfectly describe exactly what you ordered?

Yes, a lot of times: everytime I ordered something that wasn't a standard item to the people I ordered it from. In those cases the receipt always had something on it that was not what I had bought, but the closest analogy in product and/or price.

Regards, Geert

[eazybox]

What? Have you never received a receipt that did not perfectly describe exactly what you ordered?

I just think it's stretching it a bit in this case. It was a very important order after all, not one among thousands. It may have been reblocked or customized or whatever, but if it says Poet on the receipts, in my opinion it probably was a Poet.

Jack

[Capt.Herp]

The way I look at it is like this: if it's impossible to own a Raiders HJ, it's equally impossible to own, say, a Martin guitar, simply because Christian Martin, the guy who started the company, died. You could probably say the same thing about any company that started making something cool, and then the staff changed. For instance, even though I'm also a Dirty Harry fan, and own a lot of Smith and Wessons, including a couple of Model 29s; apparently they aren't real Dirty Harry guns because the guy that invented the .44 magnum revolver died, or because (little known fact) the revolver Harry used in the movie was actually a Model 25 (.45 Colt) because the .44 magnum was such a little-known caliber that Smith hadn't made any for years, and none were available for the movie.

This site is interesting, but I can see how people can get caught up in the minute details of who made what, and cost themselves a lot of money, and really not get the actual article, just things that LOOK like the actual article. If you get down to it, the only way you'll ever wear anything actually like that which was worn in the movies is if Paramount has a room full of the old props and clothing from the movies and has Harrad's auction it off or something.

For my money, I like the look, I do the best I can, but if I were to become obsessed about bow locations on hats, authentic ribbon, etc., I'd go nuts. When you get down to it, it's supposed to be fun, not a religion.

[BendingOak]

What? Have you never received a receipt that did not perfectly describe exactly what you ordered?

I just think it's stretching it a bit in this case. It was a very important order after all, not one among thousands. It may have been reblocked or customized or whatever, but if it says Poet on the receipts, in my opinion it probably was a Poet.

Jack

Down at the fire department I was told ounce something that comes to mind. When making out your reports or run cards. If you didn't write it down it didn't get done. The reason this person said this is because at one time some poor guy didn't write something down that he did on scene during a call and later when reviewed got in trouble because even his fellow firefighters remember him doing that one small thing. Because he didn't write it down it didn't get done. Thats how the world works I understand that.


Just try and think outside of the box a little. Is it possible that they need to label the hat on the receipt and the felt they used to make this special order for the Raiders movie was the same. So, they just wrote down poet. Is it possible thats why no one can find the block from HJ at any other time. Is that also possible why the TOD and LC bow work shape look so much different than the Raider and so much like each other.

Try to keep an open mind. If the facts were all in and correct about the Raiders hat being the poet why are there so many people not able to get a Raiders hat from the Poet.

[eazybox]

What? Have you never received a receipt that did not perfectly describe exactly what you ordered?

I just think it's stretching it a bit in this case. It was a very important order after all, not one among thousands. It may have been reblocked or customized or whatever, but if it says Poet on the receipts, in my opinion it probably was a Poet.

Jack

Down at the fire department I was told ounce something that comes to mind. When making out your reports or run cards. If you didn't write it down it didn't get done. The reason this person said this is because at one time some poor guy didn't write something down that he did on scene during a call and later when reviewed got in trouble because even his fellow firefighters remember him doing that one small thing. Because he didn't write it down it didn't get done. Thats how the world works I understand that.


Just try and think outside of the box a little. Is it possible that they need to label the hat on the receipt and the felt they used to make this special order for the Raiders movie was the same. So, they just wrote down poet. Is it possible thats why no one can find the block from HJ at any other time. Is that also possible why the TOD and LC bow work shape look so much different than the Raider and so much like each other.

Try to keep an open mind. If the facts were all in and correct about the Raiders hat being the poet why are there so many people not able to get a Raiders hat from the Poet.

I suppose anything's possible, but it still seems to me like more of a stretch to believe what you are theorizing rather than that they just took a Poet and refurbished it to conform to DL's vision. Otherwise, why wouldn't they simply give the bespoke hat a new name?

Jack

[eazybox]

For my money, I like the look, I do the best I can, but if I were to become obsessed about bow locations on hats, authentic ribbon, etc., I'd go nuts. When you get down to it, it's supposed to be fun, not a religion.

I have to agree with this. My whole community faced some very harsh realities recently that forced me to put this hobby into perspective in a way that I never had to do before. It is a fun, engaging pursuit, but that's ALL it is-- it's not life or death.

Jack

[BendingOak]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. DL, couldn't find anything from the current stock ( the Poet ), so she made a prototype hat from a body of a slouch hat. Took it back to HJ to custom a hat ( hats for the movie). Hj took the then rabbit poet body and made her the hats from her specs and prototype. Thats not a poet even if ( HJ ) wants to call it that. Two points of view is what I see. If I take a felt body and change the block shape, the ribbon treatment it is no longer the hat it ounce was. If I take a Bogart style hat and strip it down, re-block it on a different block, put on a different ribbon and change the design of the bow and then give it specs for a stingy brim. Is that the same hat? No way but someone might call it the same because of the raw body I used.

I don't see where that is such a leap. I would make sense why there is a receipt saying the poet and no one ever got a Raiders hat besides the Raiders cast.

I think Steve research is extensive on the Raiders hat and I trust his eye for detail like no other when it comes to this hat.

I also do not live in absolutes.

[eazybox]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. DL, couldn't find anything from the current stock ( the Poet ), so she made a prototype hat from a body of a slouch hat. Took it back to HJ to custom a hat ( hats for the movie). Hj took the then rabbit poet body and made her the hats from her specs and prototype. Thats not a poet even if ( HJ ) wants to call it that. Two points of view is what I see. If I take a felt body and change the block shape, the ribbon treatment it is no longer the hat it ounce was. If I take a Bogart style hat and strip it down, re-block it on a different block, put on a different ribbon and change the design of the bow and then give it specs for a stingy brim. Is that the same hat? No way but someone might call it the same because of the raw body I used.

I don't see where that is such a leap. I would make sense why there is a receipt saying the poet and no one ever got a Raiders hat besides the Raiders cast.

I think Steve research is extensive on the Raiders hat and I trust his eye for detail like no other when it comes to this hat.

I also do not live in absolutes.

Oak, we are exactly on the same page here; this is just what I think happened. So what is the argument about? Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough. I think it's still proper to refer to the bespoke hat as a Poet, though, because that's what it originally was-- just like Magnoli's HJ once was a Poet, but looks very different after Steve works on it. But it's still referred to as its original incarnation.

Jack

[RCSignals]

So there technically isn't a 'Raiders' HJ that can be purchased now then. What about a ToD or LC HJ?
I read somewhere that not all the hats in ToD were Stetsons, some may have been HJ (poet?), and that the LCs were HJ poet.

[BendingOak]

So there technically isn't a 'Raiders' HJ that can be purchased now then. What about a ToD or LC HJ?
I read somewhere that not all the hats in ToD were Stetsons, some may have been HJ (poet?), and that the LCs were HJ poet.

Sounds right to me.

[BendingOak]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. DL, couldn't find anything from the current stock ( the Poet ), so she made a prototype hat from a body of a slouch hat. Took it back to HJ to custom a hat ( hats for the movie). Hj took the then rabbit poet body and made her the hats from her specs and prototype. Thats not a poet even if ( HJ ) wants to call it that. Two points of view is what I see. If I take a felt body and change the block shape, the ribbon treatment it is no longer the hat it ounce was. If I take a Bogart style hat and strip it down, re-block it on a different block, put on a different ribbon and change the design of the bow and then give it specs for a stingy brim. Is that the same hat? No way but someone might call it the same because of the raw body I used.

I don't see where that is such a leap. I would make sense why there is a receipt saying the poet and no one ever got a Raiders hat besides the Raiders cast.

I think Steve research is extensive on the Raiders hat and I trust his eye for detail like no other when it comes to this hat.

I also do not live in absolutes.

Oak, we are exactly on the same page here; this is just what I think happened. So what is the argument about? Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough. I think it's still proper to refer to the bespoke hat as a Poet, though, because that's what it originally was-- just like Magnoli's HJ once was a Poet, but looks very different after Steve works on it. But it's still referred to as its original incarnation.

Jack

I never thought we had a argument. I thought we were talking about what we thought might have went on.

[eazybox]

So there technically isn't a 'Raiders' HJ that can be purchased now then. What about a ToD or LC HJ?
I read somewhere that not all the hats in ToD were Stetsons, some may have been HJ (poet?), and that the LCs were HJ poet.

The way I understand it at this point, the Raiders hat was a modified Poet made to match Deborah Nadoolman's prototype slouch hat; the TOD and LC hats were also Poets but Swales, for whatever reason, used stock Poets instead of modifying them the same way he had the Poets used in Raiders. There were also some Stetsons used in TOD for product placement purposes.

The closest thing to the Raiders HJ is probably Magnoli's hat, which I've heard is about to be discontinued.

Jack

[eazybox]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. DL, couldn't find anything from the current stock ( the Poet ), so she made a prototype hat from a body of a slouch hat. Took it back to HJ to custom a hat ( hats for the movie). Hj took the then rabbit poet body and made her the hats from her specs and prototype. Thats not a poet even if ( HJ ) wants to call it that. Two points of view is what I see. If I take a felt body and change the block shape, the ribbon treatment it is no longer the hat it ounce was. If I take a Bogart style hat and strip it down, re-block it on a different block, put on a different ribbon and change the design of the bow and then give it specs for a stingy brim. Is that the same hat? No way but someone might call it the same because of the raw body I used.

I don't see where that is such a leap. I would make sense why there is a receipt saying the poet and no one ever got a Raiders hat besides the Raiders cast.

I think Steve research is extensive on the Raiders hat and I trust his eye for detail like no other when it comes to this hat.

I also do not live in absolutes.

Oak, we are exactly on the same page here; this is just what I think happened. So what is the argument about? Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough. I think it's still proper to refer to the bespoke hat as a Poet, though, because that's what it originally was-- just like Magnoli's HJ once was a Poet, but looks very different after Steve works on it. But it's still referred to as its original incarnation.

Jack

I never thought we had a argument. I thought we were talking about what we thought might have went on.

OK, Oak, it looks as though we just got our signals crossed, then. My original question was simply out of curiousity, because, unless I misunderstood, it seemed as though there was a trend to edge out the Poet as not having anything at all to do with Raiders.

Jack

[BendingOak]

To me the poet has very little if anything to do with the Raiders hat. Use body of a hat offering doesn't make it that stock hat that you took it from.

[DR Ulloa]

Anybody have a kit car? If you build a Cobra kit car, you are going to take a donor car and use its parts to finish the thing. I've taken apart an '87 Mustang and a '91 Mustang to finish a Cobra kit. Does that make the car a Mustang?

Dave

[CW_Alden45]

I'm with you there, it really does sound like a kit car type thing; look of the original, but no remote connection aside from the look. But just like car models which get canned and tv shows which get cancelled I agree with Steve in that it makes those things more special if not more elusive (kinda like any artifacts in the series). But back to the kit car connection: It may have been made somewhere halfway across the world, but if you're not a total purist who can afford those things, it works. That's part of the reason I decided to make my own fedora before indy 4 came out last year, thing still isn't right yet, but in the words of the late Bon Scott of AC/DC "it's a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll."

[DR Ulloa]

Post some pics, CW. I know we'd all love to see your hat. And welcome to COW.

Dave

[blueoakleyz]

Well at least it's nice to know so I don't go chasing a "just like in the movies" HJ and go spending $300 for something that's not worth half that.

But by the time I can afford an Indy 4 hat they'll be gone too I think

[gwyddion]

But by the time I can afford an Indy 4 hat they'll be gone too I think

Probably not: Marc will still be making them well after Fedora retires at least, that's the plan.

Regards, Geert