TN Raiders pocket vs Raider pocket

[PLATON]

Please remind me, for HF's size
Size of TN pocket
Distance of pocket's bottom to jacket bottom.


Many thanks

[PLATON]

Oh I found it in Chris King's thread when he bought #27
He said it was 8 x 6.5

There's something strange about that however,
Please note the following pic



Now check this one



Do we al agree it's the same jacket?
Do we all agree that the distance of pocket from hem is longer than the width of the storm flap?

The storm flap should be about 1.5 inches?
So then the distance from pocket to hem should be somewhat longer.

I once suggested it was 1.75 inches because that's what I think when I look at the first pic above.

But look at this
Indiana Whit at this thread viewtopic.php?p=496980#p496980
tried to calculate the pocket size basis the distance of pocket to hem is 1.75 inches.



He found that the supposed length of 1.75 fits about 5 times in the pocket,
so 5 x 1.75 inches = 8.75 inches.

But no, that's too long (too high)

Let's take consider for example that distance from bottom to hem is 1.5 inches, then
1.5 x 5 = 8 inches i.e. EXACT THE TN LENGTH.

But, looking at the first pic, it is clear as a day that the distance from pocket to hem is much larger than the width of the storm flap.

what's goin' on?

[jacksdad]

could it be the old optical illusion? or my other guess like the old A-2's could the pockets be differnt on each side. or my other guess is it cause Indys hunched over it changes the length a little. I'm not an expert but just thought on a guess could be brain food for the real jacket Yoda's. I look foreward to reading what is found. good luck guys.

[TheExit148]

Even the pocket flaps look slightly different, the way they are scalloped. Could be just a rush in the production of the jacket, where the measurements/placing were off a little. TN may have corrected this... or could be just an optical illusion due to camera angle, HF's angle he's standing or leaning etc... Interesting though...

[PLATON]

What's the disctance of pocket to hem on a TN 1 jacket?

[Dutch_jones]

I think we're looking at a change of setting here, Hawaii vs Elstree;)

[Holt]

2''

[Satipo]

I think we're looking at a change of setting here, Hawaii vs Elstree;)

Actually, I'm pretty sure that's still Hawaii. Elstree scenes take over as soon as they enter the Temple.

[orb]

Distance between pocket to hem is 1.75" on my TN1.
The pocket itself is about ~7.8" tall.

Regards

orb

[Chris_King]

Just to let you know about a very important lesson I learned.
It's really not possible to get accurate measurements from scaling photos. How do I know this?
Well, I took a photo of my TN jacket #27 and attempted to apply these scaling techniques to my photo. Remember, I had the actual jacket in hand so I knew exactly how big the pockets were and also how far away they were from the bottom of the jacket.

To my surprise (and dismay), the resulting measurements that I got from scaling the photo were VERY innacurate compared to the actual measurements of the pocket.

To summarise, you're really not going to get a definitive answer by doing these scaling exercises.

Chris

[RCSignals]

What is the point of this exercise again Platon?

TN Raiders pocket vs Raider pocket

Aren't they the same thing?

[binkmeisterRick]

Okay, folks. Let's avoid the dead horses again, please. We're running out of space to bury the carcasses.

[PLATON]

Okay, folks. Let's avoid the dead horses again, please. We're running out of space to bury the carcasses.

It's not dead horses Bink.
You may have found the jacket you were looking for and be happy with it.
The rest of us still looking and these subjects remain interesting for us.

I hope you understand.

[CM]

I think NB probably summed it up. I can't see that there is much else to say.

[binkmeisterRick]

Okay, folks. Let's avoid the dead horses again, please. We're running out of space to bury the carcasses.

It's not dead horses Bink.
You may have found the jacket you were looking for and be happy with it.
The rest of us still looking and these subjects remain interesting for us.

I hope you understand.

I guess I'm just wondering why the same old arguments, debates, and questions (from multiple members even) keep cropping up time and time again, as opposed to keeping things contained in the original threads. It's like watching reruns after a while.

[PLATON]

I cannot deny that I have been involved with the idea of jacket making. I had my reseach and patterns made for a ToD jacket. It was before NH's demise. Then, when Wested reproduced the jacket based on the original, I had to stop.

Although the idea of making a custom jacket locally, (and under my supervision) always looked attractive, the price Wested and Todd offer are unbeatable. And because price IS a factor these days, I 'd rather postpone this project for later.

Was seriously thinking Todd's but I got some funny measurements from someone which held me back.
Also I am not very fond of the patch pockets idea and his hardcore SA pocket placement

Being disappointed after 3 wested jackets I am reconsidering all specs, (Holt won't give me his) and hope the 4th will not be a disappointment too.

As a fact, I know TN uses some great leathers and he is very precise in following custom specs, but the budget is really tight.

[PLATON]

I guess I'm just wondering why the same old arguments, debates, and questions (from multiple members even) keep cropping up time and time again, as opposed to keeping things contained in the original threads. It's like watching reruns after a while.

My friend, the point of a forum is discussion, even if it is pointless discussion sometimes.
After so many years, more all less, all subjects are covered, so returing to older topics is unavoidable.

We can only hope for an Indy V for new material.

Regards,

[Holt]

Holt wont give me this?

well first I like to say you dont ask. you nag....

and second, come on man. do your own homework. stop looking at my paper all the time...

my specs is not the aswers here for every jacket size and my jacket might look dog ugly on you.

and third, you really think Im considering giving you my specs so all that you can do with them after a year or two is to put it into production....locally

give you my specs, now THATS funny

[PLATON]

Holt wont give me this?

well first I like to say you dont ask. you nag....

and second, come on man. do your own homework. stop looking at my paper all the time...

my specs is not the aswers here for every jacket size and my jacket might look dog ugly on you.

and third, you really think Im considering giving you my specs so all that you can do with them after a year or two is to put it into production....locally

give you my specs, now THATS funny

Holt, of course it is funny, because I said it for a joke. But you don't let anything fall down, do you?

Who said I can't draw my own specs Holt?
I asked yours for comparison purposes. Don't forget that we don't even wear the same size.
We're a brotherhood here Holt, everybody shares his specs here Holt, except you.

I was talking about a custom jacket made locally for me personally.

There's no point in making a production for something that there are a bunch of makers out there and 4 of them had or used film jacket specs.

Not to mention that it is not economically justified to make it since Greece is the most expensive country in Europe.

I know you have your reasons to dislike me Holt, I can tell by your PMs, but you don't have to show it so openly.

[Holt]

Right

[binkmeisterRick]

I guess I'm just wondering why the same old arguments, debates, and questions (from multiple members even) keep cropping up time and time again, as opposed to keeping things contained in the original threads. It's like watching reruns after a while.

My friend, the point of a forum is discussion, even if it is pointless discussion sometimes.
After so many years, more all less, all subjects are covered, so returing to older topics is unavoidable.

That may be true, but these are all recent threads where you ask questions about jacket pockets:

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... it=pockets
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... ts#p563808
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... it=pockets
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... it=pockets
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... it=pockets
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... it=pockets

I'm betting on at least 10 more pocket threads by the end of 2009.

[CairoIndy]

Confucious,him say.."Many threads make strong rope!"

[Michaelson]

"...and with strong enough rope, one could hang ones'self...."



Regards! Michaelson

[PLATON]

Okay if there's a limit number of question regarding pockets and I 've exceeded it I am sorry.

I have one observation for those who are interested.

In the below photo the yellow rectangle is scaled down proportionally from a 8 x 6.5 shape.



You will notice that the center of the pocket flap is not in the center, indicating that the pocket is not a 8 x 6.5 size or any size with that analogy. You will notice also some part of the left side of the pocket sticking out from the left side of the rectangle.

On the other hand, if one makes a rectangle around the pocket and scales it up to a point where the width is 6.5 inches (if we take that for granted) then the height of the pocket is 7.25 inches.

Sure this doesn't mean anything as pointed out by some friend who took photos of his own jacket and then tried to measure from the photos, but at least it is an indication. The same experiment should be repeated on all screenshots of the same jacket (as it is thought to be) before we can make any conclusions. I believe, that if statistically, most shots measurements are alike, then we may say it is correct, or at least someone can use it in his own specs with more confidence, rather than taking wild guesses.

Holt, you don't need to 'hate' me because we represent different schools of thought, I don't.

[PLATON]

Michaelson, always like your humor.

We have a saying in my village...
It goes like...

"In the hanged man's house, we don't speak about rope"

[Michaelson]

Another one we have over here is 'that guy complains so much, he'd probably complain if they hung him with a new rope!'

Anyway....carry on. We'll try to hold off on the 'gallows humor' for a bit....

Regards! Michaelson

[Chris_King]

Platon,

I urge you to apply these techniques to photos of a jacket that you own before you start trying to rationalise proportions on screen grabs. I've been through this process that you're attempting and the results are totally and utterly inconclusive.
As I mentioned in another thread, I tried applying these techniques to photos of my own Nowak jacket and I couldn't get the "results" to confirm the pocket size of 6.5 x 8 inches, even though I knew that's what the pockets measured in the photos I'd taken of my Nowak jacket.
You will drive yourself mad trying to get measurements from screen grabs. It just doesn't work. Sorry.

Chris

[PLATON]

Chris thanks for your input.
I don't care so much about SA.
I prefer "looking good". In some cases those two coincide.
If the pocket was really 8 x 6.50 I would prefer something smaller.
If the real side strap was a K stitch, I prefer the X box stitch.

I was always interested to know the correct details of the film jacket and have various questions in my head.
I don't care to disbelieve what others say, especially the vendors.

I am doing this to find the answer to my personal quest and like to share my research and findings with others, if I can get them out of the trouble to do the research themselves.

I think, the best way to end up with some good custom specs is to attend the meeting of members of this forum, see in person and maybe try on a few jackets. Bad thing is, I can't travel these days.

[Holt]

I dont 'hate' you my friend

Im just pulling your leg sometimes

[Holt]

"In the hanged man's house, we don't speak about rope"

I just have to comment on this.I didnt see this until now.

what a great and funny saying

I have to remember that one....

[Raskolnikov]

"In the hanged man's house, we don't speak about rope"

Hey, Platon. Where are you from? In Spain we have exactly the same saying: "En casa del ahorcado no se ha de nombrar la soga"

[gwyddion]

He's from Greece.

Regards, Geert

[Raskolnikov]

Thanks.
Maybe then we learned it from de Ancient Greeks...
Anyway, back on Topic...

[RCSignals]

He's from Greece.

Regards, Geert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro9ufVuuNb0

[PLATON]

I respect your quest of finding what works best for you. What specifically didn't you like about the jackets you own? You said you're not pleased with any of them. Did you get exactly what you asked for on them? It really sounds like you're looking for a jacket maker that will give you exactly what you want, once you discover what it is, that is within your budget and you're really not satisfied with the options currently available for various reasons.

I 'll tell you my story.
I have owned 3 jackets. All from Wested cause there was only wested back then and G&B. I didn't buy from G&B for reasons of custom duties and because I liked to have a jacket from the original maker.

I wanted an Indy jacket all my life and while surfing I found Wested's website. I kept it in my 'favorites' to study it later. Then I bumped into Indygear and as soon as I found that people were confirming that Wested was the film jacket maker, I ordered one without second thought. The jacket came 2 weeks later but in the meantime I found that the off the rack version was not accurate...

I was a little disappointed but at that time Agent 5 specs hit the 'charts' of the most read threads. I ordered one immediately in distressed cowhide to get the aged look.

Result? The leather was horrible, very tough, no draping, no grain, just flakes of color, and the pockets were too small.

Then I decided to draw my own pockets and ordered a custom 80s fit with all the SA features and my designed pockets. The jacket was really cool but it didn't fit. It was too tight and too short, like a size smaller.

I came to the conclusion that instead of ordering 80s fit one size larger I should order standard cut with SA features.
Still haven't done so, but I will someday soon.

Nowadays, I wear my OTR which looks more SA than many of the jackets we see in here. I am not talking about details, I am talking about appearance. The color and shape it has taken over the years gives it a very cool look.