Taper? As In, Does My Hat Have Some?

[theinterchange]

I was comparing my new Keppler to the old one, and it seems, to my eyes at least there is some taper to the old reliable. I sold the new one [long story], but am providing a comparison pic for reference.


And before you ask.. it's a CS bash which with wear and breaking in has morphed into what looks more like a LC.

Showed this to a member, and he said he didn't see any but wanted to get a broader view on the matter. I'm not all panic stricken, but would probably send it off for a reblock once my Fed Deluxe gets here.. if the general consensus is that it's tapered.

To my eyes, there is some there. What do you think?

Randy

[DR Ulloa]

It seems like there is a little bit, not very much. However, I think most of it is becuase of the crease. Try playing with it and see if you can't take some of the taper away. The hats look great, by the way. The felt looks really soft. But, I thought Lee was changin the ribbon to be a very dark brown, like the AB/Penman ribbon. The new one looks to be black, jsut like your older one.

Dave

[theinterchange]

I have been. It actually seems to have gotten worse as I play around with it. Plus, it's getting distorted toward the back of the crown.

It is black on both. He claimed this ribbon was the accurate one.. which I didn't buy.

And the new one was noticeably softer than my older was at first. The mottled color on the CS/LC is due to getting it wet several times.. something that's much more noticeable in photos.

Randy

[Restless Dreamer]

I agree with Ulloa: it's because of the bash. In fact, I'd say that the sides are too much curved rather than tapered - the right side more than the left one

[theinterchange]

That's the distortion I'm refering to. Funny what you live with daily and then only notice when comparing it to something else..

[Chewbacca Jones]

That's not taper, that's the shape of the bash. If you look at the lower part of the crown and slowly follow it up, you can even see a reverse taper that then curves in with the side dents. Your dents are rounder edged than a Raiders bash would be, like the one next to it. Notice that the dents look squarer on the other hat, creating straighter lines. But that hat is not really tapered.

[BendingOak]

agree with everyone here, it's the bash job.

[theinterchange]

Here's a photo with the bash popped out.


Thanks for chiming in everyone. I still see it with the bash popped out..

Randy

P.S I know the difference in bashes will create a different profile but it still looks distorted to me.

[Restless Dreamer]

yap, it's still there. my henry looks that way too, when put open crown. it used to have a very flat top, and now it sports a awful hump; it used to have staight sides, and now they are curved. what looked like a cilinder looks now like a semisphere. and, oh, the back taper...don't let me think about it.

maybe yes, maybe we should both have our hats reblocked...

talking about this (sorry if I'm leading this thread off topic, but this saves me opening a new thread), I was thinking to have my Henry reblocked. I'd like to avoid to send it to Marc or Oak (they would grant me a perfect job, but I fear the waiting time and the shipping/taxes costs), but I was wondering if a ordinary hat maker could reblock it there are a few one in Rome who use vintage blocks and ancient techniques, but how could they reblock my Henry without it's original block? I fear they could use a not-too-similar block and change the overall shape of my fedora...

[theinterchange]

Hmm. I was wondering why you were apprehensive about BendingOak's shipping till I looked at your location. I can see why now. The Henry's seems to be having troubles. I've heard/read/talked with several owners who've voiced frustration over the hat's tendencies.

MY left on the hat is distorted, and tapers worse than the right. I keep fiddling with the bash but seems to get accentuated with each handling.

[Restless Dreamer]

Hmm. I was wondering why you were apprehensive about BendingOak's shipping till I looked at your location. I can see why now.

sending it to marc would allow me to avoid taxes, but who knows how much I'll have got to wait before he sends me back, with all the work he's got to do. so I've got to try an ordinary hatter, hoping to find one who have a block at least similar to the henry's one

[BendingOak]

Here's a photo with the bash popped out.


Thanks for chiming in everyone. I still see it with the bash popped out..

Randy

P.S I know the difference in bashes will create a different profile but it still looks distorted to me.

Now looking at it this way give a bit more information. i might have to change my mind on this. A side shot ( open crown), would help.

[bigrex]

I think there is a slight amount of taper as you have mentioned, not a lot, but as much or less than was in LC for plenty of shots.

[theinterchange]

Ask and ye shall receive.

[BendingOak]

Did you crease the hat your self. I don't know enough about the blocks beaver brand uses. It could be that the block has built in tapper.

[theinterchange]

No, Lee did the bash job. The hat was fine till it got wet about a month ago, then I noticed what I thought was taper. When I got the other hat, it jumped out at me.

Randy

[BendingOak]

Is the other hat the same Keppler/beaver brand?

[theinterchange]

yep. but, like I said, it was sold.

[Fedora]

Did Lee not change his blocks? I was under the impression that he did, using what I sent his factory as a model. Fedora

[theinterchange]

He was supposed to have, I know the new version is taller. But, oddly, I suspect my hat to be an old model because it was obviously shorter than the new one when comparing them side to side. I did plenty of looking them over and concluded the felt is different, and the crown height is different. I think I got an old model when I was supposed to have waited all that time to be the first "new" one.

Randy

P.S it's hard to tell the height difference in the photo but in person, you can see it clearly.

Edit::

Oh yeah.. the first one is 5 1/4. I just measured.. why I never did before, I have no idea.

[jones the whip]

Some taper here I think
Time for a re-block?
Cheers,
JTW.

[theinterchange]

Yep, I see some taper going on there. What make of hat is that?

Randy

[BendingOak]

A side shot will tell more.

[Restless Dreamer]

JTW, I think that if you raise the front pinch a tad taller, you'll decrease side taper

[BendingOak]

I think it could be the crease. What is the hight of the front and back of the center dent.

[jones the whip]

Here is the side view.
The hat is a HJ bought in person from Swaine Adeney Brigg, London.
At the time, I was unable to be as specific as I now could be, regarding the shape specs.
I must say though, when it was originally blocked, the stove pipe shape was there.
I've messed around with it for months, which is why it's now experiencing taper.
JTW.

[BendingOak]

yes, your hat shrunk alright.

[theinterchange]

ok, I've been thinking about my Keppler and came up with something out in left field. I'm going to try a SOC bash and turn on it. Worst comes to worst, I'll send it off for a reblock but want to try this first.

Anyone have any thoughts after seeing the pics I posted above? I think it'd work.

Randy

[theinterchange]

Here we go, I have it turned and bashed. Still tweaking and would appreciate critique!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/th ... C_1620.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/th ... C_1621.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/th ... C_1623.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/th ... C_1627.jpg

I had a bugger of a time getting the / angles to set on the pinch.. and am still trying to get the pinch sharper. Also, you can't see how defined the center dent is in this photo.

BUT what do you think?

Randy

[Fedora]

Most blocks have front and back taper, but it creases out when you put the top crease in. If there is too much, it will not crease out.

Also getting any fur felt hat wet, today, will cause it to taper, if the core gets wet. Basically water nulls and voids the original block shape. Some felts will last longer, but all will shrink and taper, over time. It is just the nature of the beast.

This is why if you are gonna wear a felt hat as a rain hat, you must keep it treated with a water repellant treatment. If you get up and it is raining, take the time to re treat it again before you go out. This will add longevity to the hat.

When you buy a hat, try to buy one that can take countless reblocks, if you want it to become an old friend. Not all hats are capable of this though. Rabbit tends to shrink the fastest, so there is a trade off here. But a good quality rabbit felt can be reblocked many times. The more porous the felt, the quicker it will shrink and taper, and become less porous by doing so. A porous felt is a felt that has not completely felted down, and there are spaces between the fur fibers. So, common sense tells us that, that felt is not finished with its felting, and will do so while on your head. Fur wants to close up, and it will inevitably do so. Sooner or later.

The only exception are high quality vintage hats. These seemed immune to taper and shrinkage, and I don't think it has anything to do with how the felt was made. I think it is the age factor, and live fur, versus dead fur. Dead fur does not react to the elements in the same manner as live fur. None of my vintage hats have ever tapered at all. The trouble with vintage hats though, is you can't find one with enough brim for an Indy fedora. Well, you can, but they are rare, and generally are the homburg type hats, with the bound brim. I bought one years ago and took the binding off, and cut the brim down. It was almost 3 inches all the way around prior to cutting down the sides. I don't mind screwing up a vintage Homburg, as I never liked the looks of these hats to begin with. And they do make dandy Indy fedoras, once you take off the binding and trim the brim. And the block shape is generally very nice as well.

So if you want the best rain hat, buy a vintage Homburg in brown, and fix her up. And wear it on the rainy days. Fedora

[jones the whip]

This information is most enlightening.
Thank you so much.
JTW.