Indy jacket choice?

Gobler · Post by **Gobler** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:13 pm

Since the news from Wested about the authentic and perhaps reguler goat being disscontinued for the time being, what would make a good alternitive? I read the post about US Wings new goat http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2107 which is why I got excited about the new goat skins. I am looking for a hide that drapes well, has a lighter weight and has the toughness to stand up to some abuse and has a good color. I'm not a fan of cow so to me that's not an option. The US Wings sounds like a good buy except for the sizing. I need some custom fitting done due to my frame and mesurments. Also I don't know if USW can put on the new sliders. I do like the FS as well but again, I was looking forword to the "lighter weight" goat. So, what are the options??

Cheers,
Jeff

zohar · Post by **zohar** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:43 pm

I've never thought my FS dark brown chrome goat was that heavy, but I've only compared it to my brother's original G1.

Lee Keppler · Post by **Lee Keppler** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:35 pm

Call for a sample of the FS seal chrome goat. It's almost bullet proof and quite light weight.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:41 pm

Go for the FS Expedition. When I first got back into collecting Indygear in 2000 (after finding this site), the first jacket I tried was a US Wings goatskin jacket. It was stiff and came with a liner that was unwearable. I had to have it replaced just to be able to wear the thing. With that said, I will say that I believe that most of their Indy jackets now have cotton linings. I also believe that they changed their goatskin source. From what I’ve heard, their new skin is pretty nice. You’ll have to do your homework on their current jacket. I can show you the old one if you’d like. The FS goatskin Expedition on the other hand is the best all round Indy jacket bar none, in my opinion. Everything about it is first class, from the workmanship and materials, to it’s screen accuracy. A case in point would be the collar. Study the pictures on the web of the Raiders jacket and then look at the Expedition’s collar. It’s the only one that has the right proportions. Cheers

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:33 pm

I happen to have the opposite view of Mr. Rundquist. My first jacket was a chrome goat Expedition (nobody talks about those anymore -- did the seal goat replace the chrome goat?), and since getting a Raiders Wested in the authentic lamb, I can hardly bring myself to wear the Expedition anymore. Now admittedly, I chalk a lot of that up to novelty, since I had the Expedition for 2 years. But one of the things I like so well about my new Wested is... the collar! It has a subtle curve to it that the Expedition lacks, which to me is visible in the still of Marion grabbing Indy by the collar. The Expedition collar is very straight and without character, like a dress shirt. And it has a layer of something within it that makes it really stiff. Some complain that the Wested's collar is too big for Raiders, but I don't notice it, and I'm fairly particular. I happen to like a decent-sized collar -- the purpose of a collar is to shield the neck from wind and keep you warm. You can't do that with a tiny polo shirt-type collar.

I very much prefer the working handwarmer pockets on my Wested. They actually work. My Expedition's handwarmer pockets were nothing more than a flat, narrow space between two rigid pieces of leather. Not comfortable. Also uncomfortable are the Expedition pull tabs, which dig into my back while driving. Not so with the Wested.

I'm really reveling in the luxurious feel and drape of lambskin. It's even showing signs of wear already, which is unheard of with goat -- unless you attack it with sandpaper or chemicals.

I realize you probably aren't considering lamb, and I also admit that I haven't tried the new FS seal goat, which has both Rundquist's and Lee Keppler's seal of approval. High marks indeed. I'm speaking only of that of which I know, which is the old chrome goat from Flight Suits and the new authentic lamb from Wested. But based on my limited experience, I prefer the Wested.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:10 am

I guess Swammy and I will have to agree to disagree big time (that’s alright). I will point out two things though. First, there is a huge difference in feel between goatskin and lambskin jackets. I like the way lambskin jackets feel over goatskin jackets as well. Second, Gobler asked about how goatskin jackets compare (keeping in mind that he wants an authentic color, which he can no longer get from Wested). I only told him what I thought between an FS goat and a US Wings goat (which I have no idea if you can get in an authentic color, I’ll point out). Cheers

Gobler · Post by **Gobler** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:27 am

Arrrrggg!!! It's so frustrating that when I was just a week from ordering my first jacket this happens. Perhaps if I beg Peter to reconcider the authentic goat he might? Oh please, oh please, oh pleeeease!!

I just want the color from the (or as close to the) film as possable and can hold up against some abuse. Is that too much to ask for?

Cheers,
Jeff

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:28 am

Gobler:

U.S. Wings will not make any alterations to their jackets for
you at all.

If you want the sleeves shortened, you will have to go to
a local person to do it.

If you want different hardware, you are out of luck.

And god forbid you have a problem with your order, you
will have a very hard time getting a hold of them to make
a return. And then if you do, they make it a real hassle
to do it, and they will take for ever to get you your money
back. It could literally take MONTHS!

Plus, the people who answer the phones don't know anything
about the products, they just take phone orders. If you
have ANY questions, you are again out of luck in getting any
answers.

A Flightsuits jacket is only about 70 dollars more than the
Wings jacket. I, and just about everyone else can say that
for the money, its worth it because Flightsuits will alter the
jacket to fit you.

Lets look at an example. A Wings Indy jacket costs $339.00.
When you get it, you will need the sleeves altered, so you
bring the jacket to your local leather man, and he charges
you 40 bucks to fix the sleeves.

Then you order different slides, and it costs you 10 bucks for
them, if you can get them. Then you take the jacket back
to the local guy, and he charges you another 40 to 50 bucks
to take the jacket apart and install the slides.

So it now costs you MORE after all of this than if you had ordered it
from Flightsuits from the start. Plus, you can't get your
exact size from Wings. So if you get one that is too big, and
then try to have it altered to fit you, you will be WAY over
the price of a custom made Flightsuits!

Plus, if anything happened to the jacket that was not your
fault, and you have it altered in anyway, you are stuck with
it. Period.

Something to think about if you can't get a Wested.

Flathead

SHARPETOYS · Post by **SHARPETOYS** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:29 am

I would order a FS and see how you like it. The great thing about is you can send it back and you don't have to pay any duty.Try it you might like it.

The_Edge · Post by **The_Edge** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:12 pm

The Expedition from FlightSuits is the absolute best Indy jacket on the market today. Allow me to address Schwammy's concerns.

schwammy wrote:My first jacket was a chrome goat Expedition (nobody talks about those anymore -- did the seal goat replace the chrome goat?)

Chrome refers to the tanning process of the leather. The two processes that I know FS uses is Chromium (Chrome) and Vegetable (Veg.) tanning. "Seal" refers to the color of the leather. Just like Dark Brown. For example I own Chrome, Seal Expedition. (i.e. Chromium tanned, Seal brown)

schwammy wrote:The Expedition collar is very straight and without character, like a dress shirt. And it has a layer of something within it that makes it really stiff.

This is true. The Expedition does have a layer of interfacing with in the collar. However, I have had my jacket for well over a year now and the collar on mine is very supple and flexable.

schwammy wrote:Some complain that the Wested's collar is too big for Raiders, but I don't notice it, and I'm fairly particular. I happen to like a decent-sized collar -- the purpose of a collar is to shield the neck from wind and keep you warm. You can't do that with a tiny polo shirt-type collar.

This is very much personal preference. The 'Raiders' collar is the smallest of the three films. Schwammy prefers a larger collar which would be more of a LC collar. The Expedition is modeled after the 'Raiders' jacket so its collar will be smaller. I have not found this to be a problem though. I turn my collar up in the wind and have not found it to be lacking.

schwammy wrote:I very much prefer the working handwarmer pockets on my Wested. They actually work. My Expedition's handwarmer pockets were nothing more than a flat, narrow space between two rigid pieces of leather. Not comfortable.

This is true of the older Expedition models. After some discussion at the QM 2002 Summit Dave Marshall instituted a change in the handwarmer design making them much less stiff and more comfortable. They are no longer two leather pieces. My Expedition has fabric inside against the pocket side.

schwammy wrote:Also uncomfortable are the Expedition pull tabs, which dig into my back while driving. Not so with the Wested.

I have never encountered this problem with the Expedition. This is the first I've heard of it. I actually find the fit and finish of the Expedition to be superb.

schwammy wrote:I'm really reveling in the luxurious feel and drape of lambskin. It's even showing signs of wear already, which is unheard of with goat -- unless you attack it with sandpaper or chemicals.

Yes, Lambskin is more "luxurious" and thin. The Chrome Seal goat that my Expedition is made from is actually very thin itself though yet very tough. After a year plus of wear my jacket drapes very well. Unlike a lambskin jacket, though, I have been able to wear my jacket out into the woods of the Pacific Northwest and not experience any snagging, tearing or any noticable damage at all. I also find the FS goat to be very comfortable in warmer weather. It is not heavy at all. Lamb is a nice dress leather and if that is all you want your jacket for then by all means. The goat, on the other hand, will handle medium to heavy everyday wear and come out looking better for it.

So in conclusion, I agree with Rundquist.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:26 pm

Just to say about the FS handwarmer changes....Dave did indeed discuss this in detail with me at the '02 QM summit, and used my jacket as the prototype (as it was in for other 'adjustments' at the time), and made the changes to the pockets. Mine is now fully functional, and due to the new thinner pocket, the front of the jacket now drapes perfectly. As to weight....if you don't put standard Pecards dressing that adds more weight to it, it's not a whole lot heavier than my authentic lambskin Wested, and I even used the Pecards jell (they call it creme

) to help mine relax, and mine is the old dark brown original chrome that was mentioned above, as mine is one of the first of the Expedition production run. Yes, I have 3 jackets at the moment...my cloth Wested, my authentic lambskin, and my old FS. Jackets come and go from my closet, but I have to admit, my one and only FS stays and serves as my cold weather jacket. Regards. Michaelson

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:27 pm

I don't have a Wested yet, but as to the USWings and the FS....

I have both in Goat. The USWings is their regular goat and the FS is the Seal Chrome Goat that Lee got us all nuts on.

The USWings is quite heavy and makes a great early and late Winter jacket. Cotton lining is nice. But it is lighter than their Disdressed Cowhide. I did have to have the sleeves brought up by a local tailor thou.

The FS Seal Chrome Goat is incredibly light. I'd swear it WAS Lamb. But I know it's not. Extremely light and thin compared to the USWings and it's that "perfect" color people want. Tough as nails, right color, and nice and light/thin for warmer weather. You pay a little more, but get a LOT more....

Gobler · Post by **Gobler** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:01 pm

I sent for a sample of the chorm goat and the dark goat from FS. It was a toss up between Wested and FS. Heck FS is only an hour drive from where I live. Thank you all for your input.

Cheers,
Jeff

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:47 pm

Dumb Question: What is the difference between "chrome tanned" and "veg tanned"?

Chamorro · Post by **Chamorro** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:20 pm

The answer is four posts up.

As to which one to get ... Flightsuits.

Why is this even a question?

Gobler · Post by **Gobler** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:58 pm

OK, I give up. When I get the $$ I would like the LA tribe to take a trip to FS with me. Sounds good? Good.

Cheers,
Jeff

junior · Post by **junior** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:22 am

Gobler,

You have chosen...wisely.

junior

The_Edge · Post by **The_Edge** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:13 pm

Gobler wrote:OK, I give up. When I get the $$ I would like the LA tribe to take a trip to FS with me. Sounds good? Good.

Cheers,
Jeff

You won't regret it. FS is an awesome place to do business with.

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:18 pm

That's the great thing about going there (or any place for that matter) in person. A personnal fitting, you know there shouldn't be any problems. That's why I waited until the QM Summit to get mine. Plus Dave's a sweetheart of a guy to boot. You'll get the tour, a great jacket, and if you're real nice, he'll tell ya the best spot for lunch.....

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:30 pm

Just to add a little bit more to Schwammy's post on his experience 2 years ago with his FS jacket. To be fair, both Wested and FS had inaccurate pocket placements 2 years ago. I have 2 year + Wested jackets (2) and the handwarmers are not useful, because you have to be a contortionsist to roll your shoulders all the way back, just to slip in your hands into the warmers. So Schwammy you are comparing the new Wested to the FS from 2 years ago , which is not an "apples to apples" comparison. Right now, I have a FS that has the correct pocket placment and I could make the similar criticism against my 2 year old Wested. But that would be hardly fair.

The collar on the FS does have the interfacing, but the collar does relax.

-Sergei

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:34 pm

In retrospect, this whole string has sort of puzzled me. Speaking for myself, I live just to the right of the middle of the U.S., so for me, distance is a problem to get to ANY vendor. Now here we have a fine fellow who only lives an hour from FS, is surrounded by FS fans and friends, and just NOW gives up and recognizes what he must do?

You will be pleased, Jeff. Believe me. Regards. Michaelson

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:41 pm

Michaelson wrote:In retrospect, this whole string has sort of puzzled me. Speaking for myself, I live just to the right of the middle of the U.S., so for me, distance is a problem to get to ANY vendor. Now here we have a fine fellow who only lives an hour from FS, is surrounded by FS fans and friends, and just NOW gives up and recognizes what he must do? You will be pleased, Jeff. Believe me. Regards. Michaelson

Yeah, but Michaelson the last time I checked you don't have to pay customs on jackets coming from California. Unless, Arnold has done something I am not aware of.

)

-Sergei

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:46 pm

Hummm. Well, I guess I'll stop watching for the bill from PBB for the box you mailed me a couple of weeks ago then. (grins) Regards. Michaelson

Gobler · Post by **Gobler** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:33 pm

It has been a tough choise.

I know FS is a great jacket no question. And to be fair, Wested makes a mighty fine jacket as well. My initial choice was based on three factors. 1st I liked the idea of a goat hide that was authentic color and had a nice drape to it. 2nd A jacket made by the the origanal company is cool. And 3rd, money is a factor since I just orderd a PB hat and am still recovering from that. I was hopineg to have both items before December. So if I go the FS route, I will need to save some more money which is tough since Christmas is around the corner

Oh the woes of living in a state that will drain you dry.

Cheers,
Jeff

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:50 pm

Gobler wrote:Oh the woes of living in a state that will drain you dry.

I hear you on that one.

Luke

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:35 pm

FLATHEAD wrote:
..... A Flightsuits jacket is only about 70 dollars more than the
Wings jacket. I, and just about everyone else can say that
for the money, its worth it because Flightsuits will alter the
jacket to fit you. ..... Flathead

Keep in mind you pay more money than you would ever want if you decide to custom fit your Expedition. For example, I just wanted to lengthen the zipper---$200 extra! I asked about a map pocket instead of the standard wallet pocket---$68 extra---just for an additional two inches of depth for the inside pocket! The catalog says it's a least $150 extra to make a jacket to your measurements.

Anyway, Ehren explained that the company is wanting to get away from custom jobs so they have put very steep prices on modifications. BTW, all the extra money is to pay for the pattern-maker, who is the highest paid person there. Again, per Ehren. And, they don't keep the patterns! So, the $28 map pocket pattern in my seal chrome goat from last year was disgarded so now it would be $68 to put it in my cowhide Expo because they would have to re-design the pattern for it. They refuse to keep the patterns! The Expedition is a great jacket but extremely expensive to modify it.

I.J.

Gobler · Post by **Gobler** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:45 pm

I just wanted to lengthen the zipper---$200 extra! I asked about a map pocket instead of the standard wallet pocket---$68 extra---just for an additional two inches of depth for the inside pocket! The catalog says it's a least $150 extra to make a jacket to your measurements.

I had no idea it might cost that much. Well, I may just have to wait till Wested can source out another place for there goat.

Not so Cheery,
Jeff

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:59 pm

Sorry, Jeff. I didn't mean to pop your balloon.

Funny thing is, when Ehren was telling me some of those prices, I thought he was kidding. Like to switch to another leather (other than the two base skins ---lamb or goat) for your Expedition, you not only pay the difference for the leather (base Expo is $408) but also a $28 alteration fee. So, you can see how even ordering an Expo in an other-than-standard leather can begin to raise the total rather quickly. But, you get an amazingly well-built military-spec jacket that will last (hopefully) a lifetime.

I.J.

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:19 pm

You can safely order a stock Expo and be very happy with it. I did. The only mod I did was add the ID tag on the inside pocket. I am extremely happy with it.

-S

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:29 pm

I totally agree. I just don't want anyone to think they can get a made-to-order jacket like Peter offers at Wested unless they are willing to fork over some serious extra moola. I've owned the standard lamb and goat Expos and they were great. The only mod I had was change the wallet pocket to a map pocket.
I.J.

The_Edge · Post by **The_Edge** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:36 pm

Gobler,

Don't let Joe freak you out. There is really no need to have an Expo. custom fitted. Mine is off the rack and it fits better than my custom fitted Wested.

Things that radically alter their design are going to cost more and that should be expected. People like Joe who are incredibly picky and feel the need to alter every little thing are going to get charged extra. Why should they keep every special order pattern when 99% of Expo orders are for the standard pattern and only about 1% of FS business involves the Expo?

The Expedition as it is currently designed is a dang fine jacket and the most authentic 'Raiders' jacket on the market right off the line. There isn't the need to mix and match and write long overly specific letters in order to get what you want and then hope that you get it. I urge you to call Dave Marshall at FS and talk to him in person about what you want. Visit the shop with the SoCal gang and they'll help insure you get exactly what you want as well.

The_Edge · Post by **The_Edge** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:32 pm

I would like to state that in my previous post I was not slamming Indiana Joe for his personal preferences and custom options regarding his FS jacket. I realize I may have come across that way and I am sorry. Please accept my apologies, Joe.

Plynck · Post by **Plynck** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:43 pm

Lao Feng wrote:Dumb Question: What is the difference between "chrome tanned" and "veg tanned"?

I have the same question myself. I don't know the first thing about the tanning process, and I'm curious as to whether folks here have a preference as to one method over another.

From the sound, it would seem that chrome tanning would be more stable over the long run (being a metal), whereas vegetable tanning implies some bio-degradation over time. Perhaps that's not the case, but it does lead to other questions, such as whether one tends to run more in the rain, whether there is color transfer to one' s clothing, whether the chrome is more toxic, etc.

Best to all,

plynck

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:45 pm

Ok, the short course!

All leathers, except rawhide, go through a tanning process. The main tanning processes (probably as far as Indy fans are concerned) available are chrome tanned and vegetable tanned, the vegetable tanned being the longest process in use. Chrome tanned leather is tanned using soluble chromium salts, primarily chromium sulfate. Vegetable tanned leather is tanned using vegetable materials derived from tree bark and various other plants. Chrome tanned leathers are generally dyed during the tanning process and are available in a huge variety of colors. Vegetable tanned leather is usually left the natural flesh color to be stained or dyed after tooling. Staining or dying is a whole other process.

Chrome-tanned leather tends to be usually softer and more pliable than vegetable-tanned leather which is typically thicker and stiffer, in general. The trend for now is for G&B, for example, as well as for others is to use Chrome-tanned leather. If your interested in how this affects artificially aging your jacket, check:

http://www.regular-guy.com/jacket.htm

Since no hard-core experts have yet to chime in, let it be known that this is what I’ve come to learn. Of course it gets much more detailed than that. Also, for those really fascinated by this, there is also a brief step by step explanation in the new G&B catalog, each step being crucial to a quality process.

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:34 am

Hi Folks, it me Peter.
Let me clarify re goatskin. I have the dark brown which is OK but we did have a problem with the last authentic brown( seal brown) delivery.
A new improved batch is in work and should be with me shortly so do not worry.
As to veg tanned or chrome tanned, we basically have all our leathers chrome tanned as the chroming agent is the thing that seals the skins to resist water and dirt penetration.
The easy test is to wet the finger and put it on the skin if it is veg tanned it will soak in and leave a mark. Not suitable for our wet climate.
As for FS or Wested it is your call but I would hesitate to rely on certain persons posts who are obviosly have a close association with Dave Marshall and FS who are of course in CA,USA and not England, something I can do nothing about.
From the rip off prices quoted for the alterations it is not hard to work out why their jackets are so expensive.
As for authenticity may I remind you again that they copied my jacket in the first place. I do not want to start a war but facts are facts.
Cheers to all
Peter

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:02 am

I know we have some FS fans here, but my position has always been why should I go anywhere else when the guy who made the originals still sells the jacket? Hats are a different animal though. If HJ had provided the thin felt of the Raiders fedora and a consistent block and crown height, and you could actually get one, then most would be wearing HJs in my opinion. Of course you know the old saw regarding opinions.

Fedora

Kilgour Trout · Post by **Kilgour Trout** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:11 am

What a relief Peter! As I have been deciding to buy my first jacket, the priority of durability has been extremely important. Farn54 can attest to the workout any jacket gets when plowing through the bush looking for auto and aircraft wrecks. I've seen Peter's cowhide and am very impressed with the quality and durability but I will be even happier when I can order an authentic goat. I only hope that with all the excitement of the next Indy movie, the deluge of jacket orders on Peter's plate won't derail bringing the goat back.

P.S. Peter, your care and customer service is second to none! You could give courses to the British retail trade!!!Thank you for responding to our concern. I wish I had known where to visit you when I lived in the UK for 2 1/2 years, back in the 80's!

Warm Regards and Waiting for the goat to come home!
Kilgour Trout

Gobler · Post by **Gobler** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:10 pm

So Peter you are not banning the authentic goat?

Let us know when the new batch arrives. Still very confussed.

:

Cheers,
Jeff

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:11 pm

Many Thanks to Rixter and especially Peter for answering my question about chrome versus veg tanning. Fascinating. Glad Peter uses the chrome.

Question for Peter:

Why do you not use the poly/cotton blend jacket lining that is used in the US by folks like Cooper and Avirex? It seems it would be a good compromise that would be less binding than the 100% cotton (which is excellent, by the way) and the satin. Just curious....not complaining. Cheers--Feng

Chamorro · Post by **Chamorro** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:33 pm

The Wested is an inferior quality jacket compared to the Expedition. Bottom line.

So they made the jacket for the movies. Big freaking deal.

If you want to wear @#$%, be my guest but they are not even in the same league. I want a real jacket, not a costume.

Yeah, we DO have a close association to Dave Marshall. He cashes our checks.

Tollan · Post by **Tollan** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:42 pm

Easy tiger!!!!!!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:03 pm

The Wested is an inferior quality jacket compared to the Expedition. Bottom line

I don't doubt that statement at all. The original Raiders HJ is inferior to the Optimo. If I were given a choice between the inferior HJ(original) and the Optimo, I would take the HJ in all of its inferiority.

Perhaps the FS will outlast the wearer, but then what is the point if it does? You could be buried in it of course.

Like I said, we have our FS fans here, but when I look at the price difference, it don't make sense to me at all. Unless, you are planning on being buried in it. OK, fire away.

Fedora

PS I never understood where the extra 200 bucks of quality was. The skins that the jacket is made of apparently came from inferior animals. The thread used for the stitching must be subpar as well. The zippers must be inferior on the Wested. And the person that does the sewing for Peter must not be able to operated the sewing machine properly. Perhaps the sewing machine is inferior too. Am I the only one that has not had their 3 Westeds self-destruct with wear? I have been wearing mine for years and for some reason, the darn things still are together and look better for the wear. Should I feel bad because I am wearing inferior jackets, made by the same dude who made Ford's? Some folks act like Peter sells trash.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:37 pm

Ok, let's take a deep breath again folks. Man, there have been some touchy goings on around these parts this past week. Let's start the new week on a higher note, how 'bout it?

Regards. Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:48 pm

Well, I took a deep breath and darn it, my new Wested ripped.

OK, I have had my say so I will shut up. Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:19 pm

Humm. That sounds more to me like one to many trips to the buffet bar than a vendor material problem, my friend.

High regards. Michaelson
p.s. Humm. I think I just figured out what the 'action pleats' are REALLY for now!

Boy, if that's right, I'm glad MINE work!!!

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:41 pm

Not to harp on about this one - at at the risk of having this thread locked - I don't understand why some people get so aggressive over Wested vs Flightsuit?

As I see it - if you like FS then buy FS, If you like Wested's then buy Westeds. Simple as that. There is room for everyone after all.

But slagging off a product, particularly from a vendor like Peter who....LET US NOT FORGET.......made Harrison Ford's jackets from the films (ie the jackets which started all this off in the fIrst place) is uncalled for, in my opinion.

I have a Wested and think it is an excellent jacket. I couln't wish for better, frankly. I am happy with my choice. I am sure others feel the same way about their FS jackets, also a good product I believe, and I have absolutely no problem with that.

Both jacket manufacturers have their pluses and minuses, it's about whatever works for each individual fan and we should respect each others choices.

Anyway, I don't want to enflame anything, so that's it.

Al

PS - sorry to the mods - have a great

DVD

week everyone!

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:56 pm

Michaelson’s right! Also, coming from Wisconsin, never, ever take those deep breaths when wearing your Wested, or any other jacket after those ‘all you can eat’ Friday Night fish fries. ...at least for several days afterwords.

ooO, a horrible image just popped into my mind, something I once saw in 'The Meaning Of Life'. eeh!

SAB · Post by **SAB** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:49 pm

I'm awaiting my first Wested.
I'd just like to say that Peter and Co have been nothing but gracious and accommodating to me. Its easily the best customer service I've ever seen.

In regard to Flightsuits, I'm sure they do make a very nice and durable leather jacket, they should for that price. They were the first website I looked at when thinking about getting an Indy jacket, but I just laughed when I saw their prices. I may be in the minority here, but I'd never pay that much for a jacket, no matter how good it is. I don't need an Indy jacket that bad.

Henry Jones Sr. · Post by **Henry Jones Sr.** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 8:26 pm

Man, it must have been the full moon this week!

Perhaps just not enough fiber in everyone's diets?

Maybe a little too much fiber?

There may not be a lot in this life that I truly understand, but I do know that one of the strengths of this community is that we all have our preferences...in hats, whips, and jackets, amongst many other things. When did it stop being a wonderful thing that we have so many fine-quality products from which to freely choose? How many here remember a time (not too terribly long ago, from what I understand...) when there was little or nothing of any real quality gear available out there?

From the past couple of weeks here, I'm beginning to wonder what's in the water supply.... Light-hearted jokes and jabs are fine (the usual fun fare, in fact!).... But taunts, verbal personal, character, and product assaults, broad generalizations, and other exaggerations are not why I first started coming here, and I'm pretty sure that goes for most of the rest of us.

I guess I'm done with my own personal rant (maybe this isn't even the place for this?!). I'm pretty sure we all have enough stress in our daily lives, jobs, etc. to not have to endure more when we come here. Agree to disagree. Present your point fairly and equitably, and move on. Let the rest of us make our own calls.

Just play nice in the sandbox, eh?!

Regards,

Henry Jones, Sr.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:19 pm

PETER wrote::
As for FS or Wested it is your call but I would hesitate to rely on certain persons posts who are obviosly have a close association with Dave Marshall and FS who are of course in CA,USA and not England, something I can do nothing about.
From the rip off prices quoted for the alterations it is not hard to work out why their jackets are so expensive.
As for authenticity may I remind you again that they copied my jacket in the first place. I do not want to start a war but facts are facts.
Cheers to all
Peter

Absolutely the Flight Suits started from a film used jacket that was made originally by Peter Botwright. They tinkered with the design slightly to make it better suited for the real world (like adding elastic bands between the pleats and adding pleats to the liner to help enable the outside pleats), but other than that, essentially the jacket design was derived from a screen used jacket. It’s supposed to be a copy of a film used jacket. That’s a bad thing why?

I take issue with Peter alluding to the So Cal gang as having agendas beyond giving their personal opinions about products. I’ve bought three Westeds. I’ve based my opinions off of the multiple Westeds and other types of Indy jackets that I’ve owned. Most of the So Cal Indy fans have in fact purchased multiple Westeds in the past. By virtue of picking one jacket over the other we’re biased? I don’t have any stake in this.

I’m not going to comment on the authenticity of a current Wested beyond asking why the LC jacket still has the wrong collar configuration.
I do realize that many fans get a kick out of having a jacket made by the man that made them for the films, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’ll also say that a Wested is worth the money, I never said that it wasn’t.

Fedora wrote: Perhaps the FS will outlast the wearer, but then what is the point if it does? You could be buried in it of course. Like I said, we have our FS fans here, but when I look at the price difference, it don't make sense to me at all. Unless, you are planning on being buried in it. OK, fire away. Fedora

PS I never understood where the extra 200 bucks of quality was. The skins that the jacket is made of apparently came from inferior animals. The thread used for the stitching must be subpar as well. The zippers must be inferior on the Wested. And the person that does the sewing for Peter must not be able to operated the sewing machine properly. Perhaps the sewing machine is inferior too. Am I the only one that has not had their 3 Westeds self-destruct with wear? I have been wearing mine for years and for some reason, the darn things still are together and look better for the wear. Should I feel bad because I am wearing inferior jackets, made by the same dude who made Ford's? Some folks act like Peter sells trash.

Peter certainly does not sell trash. However, many FS fans are saying that an Expedition is worth the extra money (including me) and they’re in the position to best make that assessment since they own the jackets and are satisfied. A person that is after super high quality should not be chastised for it (and neither should somebody that is after a lower cost product). The Wested and the Expedition are two different jackets for two different markets. I would speculate that there will always be heated debate over the virtues of each. The beauty of this place is that everyone is free to express their opinions. Cheers

Indy jacket choice?

Indy jacket choice?

A tough choice

Re: A tough choice

Thank you Peter!