TONY NOWAK IS REPLICATING AN ORIGINAL RAIDERS JACKET!!

[RCSignals]

So zendragon, sounds like you're not certain the TN jacket is legit - why not start a separate post asking what evidence we have to suppost the TN jacket was based on a real Raiders jacket? Of course, you'll be hated, as this is now an article of faith with some folks.

Personally I think it probably was used film jacket. My own view is that the film jacket should inspire a jacket look, not the quest to get the utterly identical copy. The film jacket is a cool jacket but I don't really want the actual one from the film, I want something very close but properly made, with a tougher hide and a little longer in the body.

One of the great problems here is that the whole jacket pedigree was off from the begining. One manufacturer brags about having the original blueprints, when they obviously do not. I'm still annoyed that I was misled from that. So many people are suspicious about any great new find because the central jacket story has changed so many times.

'Faith' is an article in buying any of the jackets. Faith that the original maker can make an original spec jacket, Faith that makers who have specs from measurements taken from screen used (stunt if it matters) jacket have it right or the jacket was what it was said to be. It's the same Faith in believing about the jacket TN had to copy. For some reason the concentration is on the jacket TN copied.

[Yojimbo Jones]

'Faith' is an article in buying any of the jackets. Faith that the original maker can make an original spec jacket, Faith that makers who have specs from measurements taken from screen used (stunt if it matters) jacket have it right or the jacket was what it was said to be. It's the same Faith in believing about the jacket TN had to copy. For some reason the concentration is on the jacket TN copied.

IMO it all comes down to tangibility with this sort of purchase where you're not buying a box of nails and knowing "what you see is what you get". In Tony's case I think he's ticked all the right tangibility boxes in terms of customer service, quality, reliability, jacket maker to the stars, etc. I think the only chink in the armor that some people can find is the jacket source. (And to others that don't understand business, price.)

To me, it's a moot point because anyone who has done a little reading and can apply some critical thinking skills and be relatively confident in knowing that if it hasn't come from "the ranch", it's as close as we're gonna get.

[RCSignals]

.........

To me, it's a moot point because anyone who has done a little reading and can apply some critical thinking skills and be relatively confident in knowing that if it hasn't come from "the ranch", it's as close as we're gonna get.

Agreed.
To some extent that same thought can be applied for anyone who's made a choice of 'what is right' for them, to the Todd's, G+B and every other 'pattern' for the jacket out there.
Some people seem to be really 'bothered' by the TN jacket whether it's the source, the leather or something else.
It's great we have so many different choices in jackets and aren't stuck with one.

[CM]

So zendragon, sounds like you're not certain the TN jacket is legit - why not start a separate post asking what evidence we have to suppost the TN jacket was based on a real Raiders jacket? Of course, you'll be hated, as this is now an article of faith with some folks.

Personally I think it probably was used film jacket. My own view is that the film jacket should inspire a jacket look, not the quest to get the utterly identical copy. The film jacket is a cool jacket but I don't really want the actual one from the film, I want something very close but properly made, with a tougher hide and a little longer in the body.

One of the great problems here is that the whole jacket pedigree was off from the begining. One manufacturer brags about having the original blueprints, when they obviously do not. I'm still annoyed that I was misled from that. So many people are suspicious about any great new find because the central jacket story has changed so many times.

'Faith' is an article in buying any of the jackets. Faith that the original maker can make an original spec jacket, Faith that makers who have specs from measurements taken from screen used (stunt if it matters) jacket have it right or the jacket was what it was said to be. It's the same Faith in believing about the jacket TN had to copy. For some reason the concentration is on the jacket TN copied.

Yep. Youre right. Although the I'd have thought that apart for a few dissidents, Tony's jackets have been approved with huge enthusiasm. If I were a zealous Wested fan, by contrast, I'd be annoyed with all the endless problems identified, in terms of materals, workmanship, website, emails, etc. I'd say Tony does pretty well on COW and I respect that beacuse his personal charm and workmanship appears second to none.

[Zendragon]

So zendragon, sounds like you're not certain the TN jacket is legit - why not start a separate post asking what evidence we have to suppost the TN jacket was based on a real Raiders jacket? Of course, you'll be hated, as this is now an article of faith with some folks.

Personally I think it probably was used film jacket. My own view is that the film jacket should inspire a jacket look, not the quest to get the utterly identical copy. The film jacket is a cool jacket but I don't really want the actual one from the film, I want something very close but properly made, with a tougher hide and a little longer in the body.

One of the great problems here is that the whole jacket pedigree was off from the begining. One manufacturer brags about having the original blueprints, when they obviously do not. I'm still annoyed that I was misled from that. So many people are suspicious about any great new find because the central jacket story has changed so many times.

In all honesty, I have seen nothing to support the claim that TN is making. Have you? But at the same time, I am not going to argue that point because there is also nothing to support that it is not true. I am a firm believer though, if you are going to say something is an exact copy of something, you should be able to support your claim.

Do I believe that TN got his hands on an original hero jacket? I honestly don't have an opinion, but would he know if he did? He himself wasn't really all that familiar with the films prior to making the CS jacket. If someone told him it was screen used, what reason would he have to question it? Especially if it came from a reliable source? But what if the source was wrong? This would not be the first time someone was given something believed to be an original when it turned out later that it wasn't.

Funny enough, if TN decided to make an awesome Raiders functional replica that was based off of his observations in working on the film, and made it a limited run, we would not be having this conversation. For me I prefer a "screen accurate" jacket over a copy of a hero anyway.

I saw no reason to make yet another thread to apparently ask a question that many have asked before me, so it made sense to put it into this thread.

On a side note though, this is less of a "faith" in that you will get what you ordered and that it will meet your expectations. From everything that I have seen and read TN makes a fantastic jacket. With the right leather it really looks the part. Limited run, customer service, custom vs off the rack, etc... make it a jacket that is probably worth the asking price. For those who don't like the price they don't have to buy it. Let's face it, there are those who are cool with the price and those who aren't. I DO have concerns about the limited run part. Imagine you buy a $1000 jacket that is limited and then something happens to it. I personally would be worried about using it just because I could never replace it. What would be cool is, if TN said something like "If anything happens to your jacket, because you are on the original run list, I will make a jacket to replace it for you (course you got to pay for it). At least then, one might feel a little safer about taking it out and wearing it lol.

If I ordered a jacket from TN, I have "faith" that he would take care of me and that I would get what I ordered. There are enough people to support that based on their own experience.

But having "faith" into the original of a jacket... something different all together.

[binkmeisterRick]

For me I prefer a "screen accurate" jacket over a copy of a hero anyway.

Um, aren't they the same thing? If it's a hero jacket, then it was on the screen, thus making it screen accurate.

[Zendragon]

For me I prefer a "screen accurate" jacket over a copy of a hero anyway.

Um, aren't they the same thing? If it's a hero jacket, then it was on the screen, thus making it screen accurate.

Kinda sorta. When something is screen used, that doesn't make it screen accurate. Example. In Empire Strikes Back, Han Solo's jacket is a greyish blue and if you saw it in person, you would say that color looked nothing like what you saw on screen. With the lighting and what not, the jacket ends up looking blue, which is how most people perceive it. That is what makes it screen accurate, vs screen used.

[binkmeisterRick]

Maybe "screen perceived" would be a better term? While it's true that lighting, camera angles and lenses and any other number of variables will affect how a prop/costume translates on the screen, it seems most would consider a hero prop/costume and screen accuracy to be one in the same. Besides, depending on how the screen or television itself is calibrated, that could also affect what you see on any given screen, meaning that the same movie on three screens would mean you have to buy three different jackets.

[Zendragon]

Maybe "screen perceived" would be a better term? While it's true that lighting, camera angles and lenses and any other number of variables will affect how a prop/costume translates on the screen, it seems most would consider a hero prop/costume and screen accuracy to be one in the same. Besides, depending on how the screen or television itself is calibrated, that could also affect what you see on any given screen, meaning that the same movie on three screens would mean you have to buy three different jackets.

I have worked with many costume replicators, most would agree that when they make a custom costume for someone based off of film, they have to ask that question. Maybe the term screen accurate and screen perceived are from the same camp. I won't argue that point, but when something is screen used, it will often be different than what you expect it to be.

Costume replicators usually will ask, "What scene do you want us to base your item off of?" Just like the Leia Metal Bikini, depending on the scene, the skirt and metal (mostly the skirt) will vary color wise.

So when I say "I would rather have screen accurate (perceived) over a copy of a Hero, well that is not a true statement. If the Hero looks like what I see on screen, then fine. Give me the hero copy ) But if people see it in person and go "that's not what the jacket is supposed to look like", then we have a problem

[binkmeisterRick]

I see where you're coming from. Yes, it's true that the real deal will frequently disappoint fans when they hold it in their hands. I was an extra in a small movie (which I think went straight to TV) and it was amazing the simple things they did to props to change how they'd be viewed on screen. Regarding the jacket, it goes back to those who want 100% the real deal and those who want it to look screen accurate, but want it to be a better garment than the original ever was. (There are those who want something between the two.) I think some find it hard to understand that a costume piece is seldom meant to outlast the production of the movie. To a degree, it's a throwaway piece, just like the countless uniform shirts Kirk tore every time he got in a scuffle. There's a reason why they made 30 copies of a single costume.

[Raider S]

Zen, I'm not sure what you're talking about at this point. Someone did Tony a favor. Simple.

There was a big brew-up over who was going to make the jackets for Indy IV and the job sort of fell into Tony's hands - he didn't go looking for it. Because he's who he is and because people were so impressed with the work he did and his style of working he was given an opportunity to copy a jacket and sell it to fans. It's simple, there's no black magic, and there's not much intrigue, actually. And it's no big deal he was told not to give his source nor images of what he copied.

If people aren't convinced or it's not good enough they don't have to buy anything. But there's nothing sinister in any of it.

[Raider S]

And of course Nowak will make jackets to be durable as well. He has no problem giving people what they want. If they want an exact copy he'll do his best to give just that. If they want something to wear daily he most certainly will do that, too. The man really wants to make jackets people wear and enjoy, my opinion is that he'd prefer people to go out and really love the things to death. That's not trying to get people to buy more, either, I think with his background he really enjoys functional items.

[Zendragon]

I see where you're coming from. Yes, it's true that the real deal will frequently disappoint fans when they hold it in their hands. I was an extra in a small movie (which I think went straight to TV) and it was amazing the simple things they did to props to change how they'd be viewed on screen. Regarding the jacket, it goes back to those who want 100% the real deal and those who want it to look screen accurate, but want it to be a better garment than the original ever was. (There are those who want something between the two.) I think some find it hard to understand that a costume piece is seldom meant to outlast the production of the movie. To a degree, it's a throwaway piece, just like the countless uniform shirts Kirk tore every time he got in a scuffle. There's a reason why they made 30 copies of a single costume.

Absolutely

[Zendragon]

Zen, I'm not sure what you're talking about at this point. Someone did Tony a favor. Simple.

There was a big brew-up over who was going to make the jackets for Indy IV and the job sort of fell into Tony's hands - he didn't go looking for it. Because he's who he is and because people were so impressed with the work he did and his style of working he was given an opportunity to copy a jacket and sell it to fans. It's simple, there's no black magic, and there's not much intrigue, actually. And it's no big deal he was told not to give his source nor images of what he copied.

If people aren't convinced or it's not good enough they don't have to buy anything. But there's nothing sinister in any of it.

I understand... I really do. I respect that TN is honoring an agreement between the owner of the jacket and himself and I would do the same.

My point is simple though and I am kinda shocked that some people don't get it. There is nothing to support the claim that's being made. So if you (not you per se) are trying to convince me that this story is true and that this jacket is copied from an original, I ask for proof. Plain and simple. It's all fine and good if TN wants to say it's based on an original, but if that is one of your selling points, you should be able to somehow back it up. Just my opinion. If I buy one of Tony's jackets, and I am seriously thinking about it, it won't be because it is supposedly copied from an original. It will be based on just the jacket and the company who made it, along with reviews from owners. Let it stand on it's own merit rather than clouding it with a story that we can neither confirm or refute.

[crismans]

There is no absolute proof at this time. There may never be absolute proof. There is compelling evidence with the overall cut/look of the jacket itself and various stories have lined up to demonstrate some pretty substantial circumstantial evidence. But as far as absolute proof? There's not any (at least to the majority of us, maybe some for those in the know). You have to read through and decide whether you believe it or not, at least for the time being.

[Hatch]

Yeah Zen, at some point it takes that "leap of faith" but for a lot of us it's been the feel,drape, cut, fit, dare I say ambiance we've been looking for over 25 years....plus the quality, customer service that's worth the price......you do get what you pay for

[Yojimbo Jones]

To me, if you were to add up all the circumstantial evidence, context, relationship Tony has with the filmmakers, jacket DNA in the form of accuracies that have only come to light since Tony's involvement, it adds up to a LOT of evidence.

Just as you don't need footage of an actual crime to convict someone, I don't think you need a name / photos to confirm this one well beyond the realms of possibility / probability.

Besides, it's kind of like poker. You just have to make a call based on the way things feel TO YOU. If you can't afford to gamble, you shouldn't be sitting down at that table. Worst case in this scenario, even if you can't be 110% sure, you still end up with a nice jacket...

[Imahomer]

I try to not get caught up in that storm. I've decided to go to Tony because I like the look of his jacket, although I honestly don't see a lot of differences between all the jackets, his quality is up there and his customer service is the best.

[Hatch]

Ima , do you mean you don't see a lot of difference in the different movie jackets or in the different vendors jackets??

[Zendragon]

There is no absolute proof at this time. There may never be absolute proof. There is compelling evidence with the overall cut/look of the jacket itself and various stories have lined up to demonstrate some pretty substantial circumstantial evidence. But as far as absolute proof? There's not any (at least to the majority of us, maybe some for those in the know). You have to read through and decide whether you believe it or not, at least for the time being.

Yea I am not holding my breath on the proof. Honestly though, based on some of the early TN jacket shots, I am not going to go the route of compelling, but that's just my opinion. Maybe I am not seeing what you guys are seeing.

Yeah Zen, at some point it takes that "leap of faith" but for a lot of us it's been the feel,drape, cut, fit, dare I say ambiance we've been looking for over 25 years....plus the quality, customer service that's worth the price......you do get what you pay for

The more photos I see and buyer feedback I read, it helps me with my decision. If I buy one it will be because I will get a high quality jacket that is going to fit me better than my others. Customer service is a bonus! I very well know that you often get what you pay for. I am not new to this hobby, like many of you, I own my Alden's, 3 jackets, NH and Wested Shirts and Pants, 6 fedoras, etc... and through all of that I appreciate many of the finer items I have acquired.

To me, if you were to add up all the circumstantial evidence, context, relationship Tony has with the filmmakers, jacket DNA in the form of accuracies that have only come to light since Tony's involvement, it adds up to a LOT of evidence.

Just as you don't need footage of an actual crime to convict someone, I don't think you need a name / photos to confirm this one well beyond the realms of possibility / probability.

Besides, it's kind of like poker. You just have to make a call based on the way things feel TO YOU. If you can't afford to gamble, you shouldn't be sitting down at that table. Worst case in this scenario, even if you can't be 110% sure, you still end up with a nice jacket...

There is no doubt in my mind that everything that is being said is "possible", even probable isn't out of reach.

But you use a crime as an example, a good investigator is always asking questions.

Other thoughts...

1. "Accuracies that have only come to light since Tony's involvement". Which ones are we talking about and what makes Tony's opinion on the issues worth more weight than someone who has been following Raiders since it came out? Like Lee Keppler for example? What is it about what Tony says he discovered that makes a person go "OMG, that must be true!"

2. Something to remember is that when it comes to evidence, hearsay is just that... if it isn't eye witness, then it doesn't count much.

3. Keep in mind, I have come to this late, so I don't get to share in that initial excitement that many did when all of this started out, so I am really coming in as an outsider, reading questions and responses, seeing photos, reading testimonials, etc... my take on it may be slightly different than some of you.

4. And yes, it does look like a nice jacket. But for those of you who spent your $800 to $1000 on the jacket, did you buy it because you wanted a nice jacket? Was it because TN made the Indy 4 jacket and you thought that it would be cool to have a Raiders jacket from him, or did it have something to do with the whole "copied from a hero jacket"? I am curious...

I like the jacket I see, not sure if I like the shrunken lamp (a couple jackets looked real nice, but others... wow that's a lot of texture) and if I think that matches the look I see on screen, but fortunately, TN offers other leather choices. I think it would be awesome to have a jacket that wears like my old bomber jacket.

[Indiana G]

4. And yes, it does look like a nice jacket. But for those of you who spent your $800 to $1000 on the jacket, did you buy it because you wanted a nice jacket? Was it because TN made the Indy 4 jacket and you thought that it would be cool to have a Raiders jacket from him, or did it have something to do with the whole "copied from a hero jacket"? I am curious....

.......all of the above. bottom line is, the only thing closer to an actual raiders jacket (cut and measurements) is the expo.....and g&b doesn't offer customization.

wested can do TOD, LC and CS with the patterns they have. they have yet to master the cut of a raiders jacket in their current offerings.......

[Hatch]

Zen, One of big features in fitting is back and front lengths being the same and "off the shoulders" draping making it more "Raiders look " fit......

[Indiana G]

Zen, One of big features in fitting is back and front lengths being the same and "off the shoulders" draping making it more "Raiders look " fit......

the big thing is the drape as well. the only other hide that comes close is todd's washed lamb......but it's waaaaaaaaaay too soft. gives a nice drape but at the expense of the weight and texture of the leather. NB hit it home when he wrote that nothing else drapes like shrunken lamb. i thought about it for a while and compared my TN to the other jackets i own and i pretty much have to agree with that statement.

[gwyddion]

ok, moving to this thread now

Maybe because Zendragon wasn't here for all of that. and also because the way some of us talk (myself included sometimes) might sound like we forgot about that.

Regards, Geert

as explanation to my quote: What we may sound like we forgot about is that we have no real facts.

I think it is because we are so darn enthousiastic about this jacket that we may come over as having lost track of that, and I can understand that this would raise som concerns with the more cautios people.

I don't think it is a bad thing that someone drives this home every once in a while, as it helps to inform those who will not read the entire thread because of it's huge size.

For me personaly what I've read is proof enough, but I agree we have no facts. The only thing I know for sure is that I realy like these jackets, and that's all the fact I need on this

Regards, Geert

[CM]

Well, there's not a lot of point spending hundreds of words on constructing proofs of whether TN had an original hero jacket or not. There is no proof that he did. And there is no proof that he didn't. It works both ways. What we have right now is a simple narrative that involves certain "hidden people" manking an "original" jacket available. No wonder there are skeptics.

The jackets look so good, appear so accurate and TN's credibility is high so no wonder there are believers.

That said. Proof is a strange thing. Look at the inaccurate jackets produced by Peter over the years. You'd almost take that as proof that Wested had nothing to do with the movie jacket. My Wested LC looks like it was made by someone who saw a poor video copy of the film and drew up some close enough details on a scrap of paper. Nice jacket and well made, but it doesn't look like the original patterns were anywhere around when it was made. So, as an Indy fan friend of mine said on seeing the jacket for the first time - "So how do you know this guy made the originals?"

[Kt Templar]

It's been said again and again, but some of the older jackets has better features than some of the newer.

[Hatch]

Well, there's not a lot of point spending hundreds of words on constructing proofs of whether TN had an original hero jacket or not. There is no proof that he did. And there is no proof that he didn't. It works both ways. What we have right now is a simple narrative that involves certain "hidden people" manking an "original" jacket available. No wonder there are skeptics.

The jackets look so good, appear so accurate and TN's credibility is high so no wonder there are believers.

That said. Proof is a strange thing. Look at the inaccurate jackets produced by Peter over the years. You'd almost take that as proof that Wested had nothing to do with the movie jacket. My Wested LC looks like it was made by someone who saw a poor video copy of the film and drew up some close enough details on a scrap of paper. Nice jacket and well made, but it doesn't look like the original patterns were anywhere around when it was made. So, as an Indy fan friend of mine said on seeing the jacket for the first time - "So how do you know this guy made the originals?"

Why just show him your nifty 'Certificate of Authenticity'

[CM]

Well, there's not a lot of point spending hundreds of words on constructing proofs of whether TN had an original hero jacket or not. There is no proof that he did. And there is no proof that he didn't. It works both ways. What we have right now is a simple narrative that involves certain "hidden people" manking an "original" jacket available. No wonder there are skeptics.

The jackets look so good, appear so accurate and TN's credibility is high so no wonder there are believers.

That said. Proof is a strange thing. Look at the inaccurate jackets produced by Peter over the years. You'd almost take that as proof that Wested had nothing to do with the movie jacket. My Wested LC looks like it was made by someone who saw a poor video copy of the film and drew up some close enough details on a scrap of paper. Nice jacket and well made, but it doesn't look like the original patterns were anywhere around when it was made. So, as an Indy fan friend of mine said on seeing the jacket for the first time - "So how do you know this guy made the originals?"

Why just show him your nifty 'Certificate of Authenticity'

You're right.. I had the proof all the time!

[RCSignals]

a lot of 'what ifs'

But. What "Hawaii" jacket with a B+N label? The "Hawaii" jacket TN had reportedly did not have a label

[Yojimbo Jones]

a lot of 'what ifs'

I'm sure I'll log in one day and someone will have posted "Did you hear about NB? Its terrible. Apparently his head just exploded."

[Yojimbo Jones]

What if Deb's whole poolside story is told in a streamlined way that makes sense to the average listener to make them go "ooooh" but omits that they switched "heros"?

[RCSignals]

What if Deb's whole poolside story is told in a streamlined way that makes sense to the average listener to make them go "ooooh" but omits that they switched "heros"?

What if Deb over distressed the jacket and it fell apart when HF tried to put it on?

[Raider S]

What if Deb's whole poolside story is told in a streamlined way that makes sense to the average listener to make them go "ooooh" but omits that they switched "heros"?

This is what I was hinting at in an earlier post about the timeline. When people are recalling these events we may be talking about decads old memories and it's not courtroom testimony. Sometimes people embelish a little. They compress times and events. They forget to add certain details or add details that might not be quite correct.

Many of the details people are trying to work all this out with may be incorrect themselves. The jacket may be a big deal here but 30 years ago the people working on a movie weren't thinking about it that way - it was just another part of their work and not some sort of cult icon.

Even now the Indy jacket isn't that much of an icon as few people would be able to differentiate it from an A2 or any other number of similar jackets.

[bigrex]

Just read the free beer thread. For the love of Indy, all will become clear

Yeah, politics, at times it seems half of what is said is diplomacy the other half they try not to let become propaganda. My one cent, and back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress...sounds like we could come up with a thousand "what if" combos, but of course some of them would be . What if the "Hawaii" jacket is a completely different jacket with the "leather concessionaires" label? What if, what if...the Bantu wind jacket is the "prototype" jacket with the B&N label?

[gwyddion]

a lot of 'what ifs'

I'm sure I'll log in one day and someone will have posted "Did you hear about NB? Its terrible. Apparently his head just exploded."

Hopefully, I'll be able to avoid that untimely occurance once the write up is complete. It's been nice not trying to struggle through working all this stuff out over the last couple of days. "bright guy on tv". Apparently not, since I was blind and allowed myself to get thrown off track by the trolling of a very select group working in concert with each other. It's clear that being a chump is very funny to a few based on their comments yesterday, however it's cool, live and learn. How I was operating under the assumption everyone is operating soley on their good faith opinions is a mystery to me, but it's time to laugh at all the false rabbit holes they sent me on and the enormous amount of time I spent on what I believed at the time were honest opinions with no hidden agenda. It's funny when it's not YOUR wasted time. Anyway, since everything is sanitized, I hope new members who weren't here for yesterday can somehow be smarter on all this than I was.

Though some might possibly have agenda's here, I doubt it that anyone sent you down rabbitholes Neutronbomb. I don't even think anyone was laughing at you either. Some of us are a bit cynical and some of the cynical tend to use "laughing it off" as a means to make things feel more positive.

Because of your search I have learned a great deal of things about the jacket I never knew and I would hate to see you stop. In all honesty though I have to admit that I'm not sure you will find the absolute truth on this subject, but who knows? I might be wrong as you seem to be someone who was made for solving mysteries.

Regards, Geert

[Holt]

so NB have you decided on which style you are going for?


also what hide?

[Holt]

ahh.. now your talking my language


I think itis really cool that you are thinking about getting the bantu style jacket. I have thought about it myself too.. but the problem is that we dont see thats much of the details on that jacket. so it would be hard to recreate.

[RCSignals]

ahh.. now your talking my language


I think itis really cool that you are thinking about getting the bantu style jacket. I have thought about it myself too.. but the problem is that we dont see thats much of the details on that jacket. so it would be hard to recreate.

I'll bet if it were the slydini jacket with the straps attached to the inside of back flaps further down that'd maybe be as close as I could come. That's of course IF TN didn't have the "bantu wind", prototype jacket.

Slydini's first jacket had a high yoke, the back sleeve seam was adjusted up to meet it. The alterations from #000 were all Tony.

If he had the "Bantu Wind" jacket, #000 would look like the Bantu wind jacket.
We still don't know for sure what jacket was the prototype. I don't think Peter has ever said.
Maybe _ has it in his new write up, we'll see.

[Holt]

actually.... no... no guesses here....

[gwyddion]

Neutronbomb, if I were you, and I'm clearly not, I would go for the Hawai jacket. Why? there are just too many uncertainties regarding what the actual prototype jacket was and I fear that wanting to replicate that would be too much of a unicorn.... With the Hawai jacket you are on slightly more solid ground and you know he can replicate that pretty good.

Regards, Geert

[Holt]

actually the bantu jacket pattern/style looks much more like the 80's cut wested's today.so recreating that jacket with wested would probably be easier I think...

the TN looks like the hawaii jacket cuz it is that jacket, so recreaitng the TN into the bantu style jacket would mean much more work becasue the bantu pattern looks way different then Tony's hawii jackets........


just thinking out loud...

[RCSignals]

Neutronbomb, if I were you, and I'm clearly not, I would go for the Hawai jacket. Why? there are just too many uncertainties regarding what the actual prototype jacket was and I fear that wanting to replicate that would be too much of a unicorn.... With the Hawai jacket you are on slightly more solid ground and you know he can replicate that pretty good.

Regards, Geert

That makes most sense I think

[CM]

What I personally want is something "rock n rolla". Something, "that's sick, dude". Something you wear with rad jeans, and the cowboy boots worn in "Kill Bill" with the red tips.

That's just me. I think most of the vendors have taken the jacket and modified it so it appeals to the "nice jacket", "well built", "well constructed", "can wear it to dinner, looks good with nice clothes", "smooth, perfect, elegant leather" crowd, but in the Indy "style" of jacket. I'm not knocking that, it probably makes a lot more sense for everyone to go that route.

I want a much more unique "ill constucted", "smokin' cigarettes at the grunge bar" type jacket, custom made based on the "worst" condition jacket with ALL the particular nuances and mistakes and the furthest thing from fashion looking leather you can get.

But, that's just me.

That's funny - I don't think I'd wear any kind of Indy jacket to a hard drinking, booze and fistfights bar. "Nice jacket there, son," "Yeah - it's just like the one worn by Indiana Jones in the Speilberg film.. why are you pointing that knife at my throat?." I think an Aero Highwayman or similar might be more appropriate. I guess it depends on the bar. But as NB said, that's just me...

[PLATON]

Is there any chance that Tn used the jacket that _ measured?

[Kevin Anderson]

And since all the jackets made were the same size....

[Kevin Anderson]

Platon raises a good point though, and if all the jackets were made to the same size, the 'Hero' Tony viewed would have measurments matching what
_ measured, give or take a bit for shrinkage/stretchage(!) over the years.
Were those measurments ever posted or made public here?

[PLATON]

I frankly don't believe that an man of the caliber of Frank Marshall would play the role of the jacket(s) delivery boy.
Man, Frank has produced more than 40 movies, doesn't he have anything better to do than delivering jackets to jacket maker TN? for what reason? friendship? money (don't think so). There's no reasonable explanation.

It sound's more reasonable to me that a stunt guy brought his jacket to TN.
Guess who? We have seen photos of him with TN.

I maybe wrong. Maybe it was Frank Bruton of the art department who made the delivery.

[PLATON]

Platon raises a good point though, and if all the jackets were made to the same size, the 'Hero' Tony viewed would have measurments matching what
_ measured, give or take a bit for shrinkage/stretchage(!) over the years.
Were those measurments ever posted or made public here?

That could be right, if there wasn't one little detail in the way.

The G&B jacket (result of _ measurements), the Todd (same) and the Wested all have the back longer than the front.

In TN's jacket, back length = front length. And if TN had the real "jacket that matters" then this equals to TN calling the walking hulk a liar, because if all the jackets were made to be the same, and the jacket the walking hulk measured has long back, then someone is not telling us his story right.

Wested on the other hand, even if they lost the original pattern as some people claim, I think Peter could re-create it right, be it with long or short back. They made 14 freaking jackets, wouldn't they remember if they made them with normal (long) or unusual (short) back?

Pattern making has some mechanics and rules. One of those rules is that ALL jackets have longer back than front.
Look at all jackets that you can find and you will confirm that.
Maybe 1 in a million don't, but don't you think that if Peter used this peculiar, unusual design of back = front he would have remembered it?

Actually, Peter denied that the leather had anything to do with what TN used and even gave names of the people who supplied the leather.

All the above is one more question mark as to whether the jacket TN used was the real thing.

[Kevin Anderson]

I'm sure there's some relevance in that song somewhere, but anyhow..
I should ask _, I guess; what were the measurements of the jacket you measured that became the
model for the excellent (or so I hear, and will soon discover) G&B Expedition?
If they've already been given, I apologise, but I couldn't find them in the jacket write up or by searching here at COW.

[agent5]