LLS Rabbit Raiders Project (Hat Pics Added)

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:58 am

Ok guys, enough derail.......back to topic, if you please.

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:00 pm

I think what LLS is charging is a good price for what yer' get. The felt is expoentially better than the HJ and the Christy, as it is QUALITY rabbit felt. Plus, the blockshape that LLS has worked two years on is as close as anyone will ever get for the Raiders fedora. My opinon of course. What's the price of the low quality felt HJ? I think it is more than what LLS charges, and you get a handmade hat in the process. I taught him how to stabilize felt, as well as other very important things in making a great hat, and a durable hat. And, you will get real parts instead of the cheap parts that come with the UK hats. LLS may use goat for sweats, and would never consider ever putting a cowhide sweat in a hat like the UK hats have. They use cow because it is CHEAP. But never was the traditional leather for a proper sweat. No respectful hatter would ever use cowhide. When HJ was a real hatter, they used the right materials. LLS's felt will cost him more than the entire HJ or Christy hat does, in parts and labor. You really do get what you pay for. Face it, a Christy or HJ costs the retailer around 25 bucks in parts and labor. And for that, you get a 25 dollar hat. There is no comparison between an LLS fedora and the UK fedoras. Or between John's rabbit and an UK hat. The handmade hats are REAL hats, made to be worn as a hat was intended to be worn, and not just as a costume piece. Costume pieces are generally shoddy, in every area. One day everyone will understand this.

If today I were to offer a Raiders rabbit fedora, I would ask 275.00 for them. The blockshape itself is worth that much! And each hat would be fretted over, with the customer in mind. You don't get that with a factory hat, at least not unless you order an AB factory hat. But, you pay for those details. Quality cost money. Nothing new here. Fedora

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:14 pm

BendingOak wrote:
Mulceber wrote:
How about Hat Nazi hat company.
I dunno, I get the feeling that another group has already taken the name "nazi..." -M
It was a joke. I await to see what the name will be myself.

Yeah, I know, I was just joking in return.

I'm definitely interested in one of these...now I just need to find the money...$250 doesn't grow on trees for a college student. -M

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:46 pm

RaiderZee wrote:I dunno, "Hat Nazi Fedoras" has a good ring to it. Slogan: "They're rabbit, and they're spectacular!"

RZ
Gotta lay off the Seinfeld reruns . . .

What about Geographical Oddity brand.. in tribute to Zee's location.. and O Brother Where Art Thou.. there were fedoras in that! hahaha

I am very curious about the brand name, should be fun to see what it is.

Randy

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:50 pm

Fedora wrote:I think what LLS is charging is a good price for what yer' get. The felt is expoentially better than the HJ and the Christy, as it is QUALITY rabbit felt. Plus, the blockshape that LLS has worked two years on is as close as anyone will ever get for the Raiders fedora. My opinon of course. What's the price of the low quality felt HJ? I think it is more than what LLS charges, and you get a handmade hat in the process. I taught him how to stabilize felt, as well as other very important things in making a great hat, and a durable hat. And, you will get real parts instead of the cheap parts that come with the UK hats. LLS may use goat for sweats, and would never consider ever putting a cowhide sweat in a hat like the UK hats have. They use cow because it is CHEAP. But never was the traditional leather for a proper sweat. No respectful hatter would ever use cowhide. When HJ was a real hatter, they used the right materials. LLS's felt will cost him more than the entire HJ or Christy hat does, in parts and labor. You really do get what you pay for. Face it, a Christy or HJ costs the retailer around 25 bucks in parts and labor. And for that, you get a 25 dollar hat. There is no comparison between an LLS fedora and the UK fedoras. Or between John's rabbit and an UK hat. The handmade hats are REAL hats, made to be worn as a hat was intended to be worn, and not just as a costume piece. Costume pieces are generally shoddy, in every area. One day everyone will understand this.

If today I were to offer a Raiders rabbit fedora, I would ask 275.00 for them. The blockshape itself is worth that much! And each hat would be fretted over, with the customer in mind. You don't get that with a factory hat, at least not unless you order an AB factory hat. But, you pay for those details. Quality cost money. Nothing new here. Fedora

Steve, I think you meant Beaver not rabbit. I haven't made my rabbit offering yet.

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:42 pm

Captain Tarples say "Start it up, the block!"
Surveyor Gungun say "Mesa back!"

I was working on my blocks today and just thought I would give everyone a look at what it takes to get a single block to my specs. Now of course I won't reveal any secrets, but I'll give the Reader' Digest version.

First I start out with a blank block from my block maker.
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43 ... GE_248.jpg

Next I take various readings with my instrument to align the block.
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43 ... GE_243.jpg
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43 ... GE_242.jpg

Next, I mark my various catch points and transition spots always referencing my trusty field book that has ALL my important formulas in it.
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43 ... GE_244.jpg
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43 ... GE_245.jpg

I hope you enjoyed that little insight. Wouldn't share all that with just anybody.

This is a shot of my Indy Gear.
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43 ... GE_241.jpg
Hat - AB (4 years old)
Jacket - Todd's Standard
Shirt - Todd's (first run)
Stap -TAG
Bag - reproduction (I use it every day)
Web belt - local surplus store
Leather utility belt - old one of mine (Suveyor accurate)
Pants - Wested (current run)
Boots - Aldens (4 years old - wear them every day)

"Hat Nazi's. I hate these guys!"
The jacket folks have the patent on "Stitch Nazi's". "Hat Nazi's" is ours. ;-)

LLS

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:47 pm

Not ours, just yours. ;-)

Dave

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:04 pm

WOW LLS that jacket of yours got a real TOD look to it ! Really cool

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:17 pm

Thanks, Dutch,
I have had my jacket for a year. It has held up very well. I wear it every day at work. I love how thin and soft this leather is. Definitely not a cold weather jacket. I just wear a heavy jacket over it.

LLS

Ohio Jones · Post by **Ohio Jones** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:20 pm

LLS,

I KNEW IT!!!!!! My method of block making is WAY off! Thanks for the info. I thought the way I was going about it was to easy. I never thought about starting outside, actually in the woods.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:24 pm

What a hoot!

You are a funny guy! Still gonna call your company, "The Laughing Hatter"?

Wait, let me retract that!! We already have(had) a hatter with a similiar name, but we can't talk bout HIM here! But he was always GLAD to take your money(at least a grand for his hats) and he laughed all the way to the bank.

Great stuff, and it got me to laughing this morning. Fedora

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:28 pm

have had my jacket for a year. It has held up very well. I wear it every day at work. I love how thin and soft this leather is. Definitely not a cold weather jacket. I just wear a heavy jacket over it.

LLS wore this jacket when he visited. I was impressed that it was still together, with no torn stitches in the areas that usually tear. It completely changed my mind on Todd's jackets too. So much so, that I want one. A really light jacket, and not as weak as I had been led to believe. And the price was great! Plus, it looks great in person. Fedora

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:35 pm

Steve, I think you meant Beaver not rabbit. I haven't made my rabbit offering yet.

Oops! Just got my hatters confused John. Either that, or I dreamed you were offering rabbit. I just have these little rabbits running through my head is all. Sorry I missed your call too. Hopefully we can hook up this week. Fedora

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:37 pm

Fedora wrote:
Steve, I think you meant Beaver not rabbit. I haven't made my rabbit offering yet.
Oops! Just got my hatters confused John. Either that, or I dreamed you were offering rabbit. I just have these little rabbits running through my head is all. Sorry I missed your call too. Hopefully we can hook up this week. Fedora

No worries Steve. I will be offering rabbit soon but not yet. I'll give you a call monday.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:45 pm

Still you're (re)creating a generic fedora block that has been around for ages. I still think had the Fed IV been spec'd correctly there'd be no need for another "indy hat" in rabbit.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:01 pm

Why not? Those that would have been happy with the Federation IV wouldn't have had to buy this rabbit hat. There is always room for a new hat and hatter. How many different jackets are available? And how many different models from each jacket maker? This hat will probably be closer to the Raiders hat than any other hat we've seen, even if the FedIV had been speced the way you say. Thats not the point though. It wasn't speced that way, so it is not even closer than most of the other rabbit offerings here. Lets also not forget that these hats will be custom. Why does everyone try to compare factory hats to custom.

"Hey, if I had am extra 300 ft. lbs. of torque, my Camaro might beat your Aston Martin!"

"Find the power and then come see me."

Dave

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:06 pm

Because the Fed IV was spec'd by Fedora. Who better to offer the hat in the correct specs to the fans?

What was the purpose of making the Fed IV if only to make it another close but not quite right hat again. Of all the factory hats that SHOULD have had the right specs, it's the Fed IV.

Don't know. Seems the majority of the factory hats keep getting the wrong specs. Who knows how they might turn out with the Raiders specs on them.

DR Ulloa wrote: This hat will probably be closer to the Raiders hat than any other hat we've seen.

Says who?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:15 pm

Because the Fed IV was spec'd by Fedora. Who better to offer the hat in the correct specs to the fans?

You got it wrong. I sent Ron a CS hat. He then took that hat down to Akubra to see if they had a block that was like it. They did NOT! So, he used what they thought was the closest. That is the way it came down.

Still you're (re)creating a generic fedora block that has been around for ages. I still think had the Fed IV been spec'd correctly there'd be no need for another "indy hat" in rabbit.

Generic?

Dutch, I have at least 8 different fedora blocks in my shop. All vintage. Each one made a particular style of fedora. That may come as a surprise to you.

The elusiveness of the Raiders fedora was due to the block used to create the hat. It was different than the 8 vintage fedora blocks that I have in the shop. Each of those 8 fedora blocks that I have are different, and one will not yield the hat that another one will. Each make a different fedora. Maybe you have to be a hatter to understand this stuff, but I don't think so. It is elementary stuff, these different blocks.

An example would be what I used for the gray CS fedora. It was a vintage fedora block. The number I won't share. But, if you use another fedora block to make it, you won't get it exact. It may be close, but it won't be exact. You might not be able to tell the difference, but many could and would. You may need to question your own sensitivity of perception Dutch. ;-) Fedora

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:21 pm

My perception is that all you've done with this latest batch is lower the crown height. than what your previous Raiders accurate hat was.

Sorry LLS for hijacking your thread.

Post by **Dr. Nebraska S.** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:40 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:Still you're (re)creating a generic fedora block that has been around for ages.

For a discussion about nuances of various fedora blocks, you might want to look into this thread instead: viewtopic.php?p=541546#541546

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:27 pm

Still you're (re)creating a generic fedora block that has been around for ages. I still think had the Fed IV been spec'd correctly there'd be no need for another "indy hat" in rabbit.

Dutch, what I have done is to replicate a block style of the old hat that Fedora sent to me. The one I have posted in various threads. When this hat was bashed, it was a dead ringer for the Raiders hat. That sent me on the quest. Just for my own sake. I wanted that crown on my hats. The problem was how to replicate it. I had never worked with wood in my life. Let alone a hat block. I just used what best came to me how to replicate the block style.

After working to replicate this block for the last 2 1/2 years, I have learned many things about blocks and how they create a crown effect for a hat. I have concluded that block making was ever bit the artistic creation as a hat was. Block maker had to be very creative individuals. Blocks were very purposeful and mathimatical item. I disallowed the theory that crown shapes were accidental and that all you had to do was to adjust the bash of a hat to get it to look a cartain way. If a few variations a a generic block shape produced every bash style in the world, mine, Fedora and 3thou$ quest would have ended a long time ago. It is my belief that a block style defines a hat line as much as the name that is applied to the hat. For example. The Poet is a name of a style of hat made by Herbert Johnson. If Herbert Johnson made a hat called the Wonderer, it would have used a different block. The difference would not just have to be limited to crown height. Many other factors can be changed on a block that will produce completely different results when bashed. Examples would be: taper variations around the sides, radius diameter, flat on the top, roll on the top, and none of these have to be the same on the front or the back. Endless variations. Just like hat making itself.

My theory is that this block is closer than we think. It is my belief that the wrong turn was made before Temple of Doom. Maybe it will surface on day. Focus has been on the hat. Not the block. Time will tell.
If the right block had been found for the Federation to use, I wouldn't have even tried what I did. If they had used the Austrailian model for Temple of Doom, we'd be much better off.

'Tis not for man to wonder why.....
LLS

hp · Post by hp » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:44 am

Hi LLS,

we learned in the past from various hatters here in COW that the look of a hat is determined not only by the block but also by the felt and how skillfully it is bashed.

Does your block work with your felt only or could it be a different felt also, i.e. would your block yield the same look reblocking an AB beaver for example?

Kind regards
HP

TomTom · Post by **TomTom** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:10 am

LLS,

I'm sure you will do (have done) a great job. 2 1/2 years for recreating an old style is much more than just a passion. Maybe it will be another close enough, maybe a dead on Raiders hat. Whatever, you created your own imagination of the raiders fedora. So did Steve, Marc, 3thou and others. Some people will like, some others will not jump on the train. But it is no Fed IV (for me it's nothing more than a caricature of the CS). It will not be an "I choose a close enough block and throw out a cheap hat". You made this block by yourself. Giving us probably a real alternative.

The Fed III was a good hat. Done with the help of COW members. Making the crown a little smaller would make good results. Don't understand me wrong. I like Ron. He has a hat shop and have to make money. But if I want a CS I go to Fedora or Marc.

Same to Herbert Johnson. But in this case to sell a cheap hat for 300 bucks is not just making money. That's why I like the Christy's. You get what you pay for. Nothing more and the price is okay. Blockshape also if you like a LC hat or a slight tapered Raiders.

What I want to say, 250,- $ for a handmade rabbit with all the research in the beginning is a good price. If I had the money I had ordered one already. But in the moment I'm jobless and can not afford the money (so, if you screw up a hat in size 22 1/8, send it to me. Holes, crinkles or bleached out hatbodies are welcome

).

Btw. I like your sense of humor. You will need it as a vendor. Sometimes I've noticed bad feelings against Fedora or Marc when they introduced in some discussions. Some people forget that they're not only vendors like PetersBros. or Hatsdirect. They are fans of the Raiders fedora and joined the forum to discuss the hat. I don't know why they should stop it just because they are now vendors. Not every criticism against another hat is a comercial spot for theire own.

So with that I wish you all the best as a vendor and fedora lover. (The hat not the vendor).

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:23 am

Btw. I like your sense of humor. You will need it as a vendor. Sometimes I've noticed bad feelings against Fedora or Marc when they introduced in some discussions. Some people forget that they're not only vendors like PetersBros. or Hatsdirect. They are fans of the Raiders fedora and joined the forum to discuss the hat. I don't know why they should stop it just because they are now vendors. Not every criticism against another hat is a comercial spot for theire own.

So with that I wish you all the best as a vendor and fedora lover. (The hat not the vendor).

I have notice that myself. Some, not all just some forget that Steve and Marc are fans and gearheads way before they had the label of venders.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:06 am

Well, a lot of us were not here before they became vendors and some of those have not read up on the history behind Adventurebilt

Heck, I bet there are even a lot of people here now who weren't here when you first started selling hats.

I do hope people will do some research though and see where you, Steve, Marc and LLS are comming from.

I've set myself a goal to own a hat made by each of you as I realy apreciate what you guys have done. You guys realy got this 'for the gearheads, by the gearheads' thing going that I realy like.

I'd love to see more hats that were made on LLS' block, though judging by the pictures I've already seen and Steve's praise I already know they are going to be great.

Regards, Geert

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:03 am

And, again, there is no reason why they should stop posting about the hats they love just because they are vendors now. Steve's and Marc's posts are geared toward exploring and pushing the boundaries of what we know about these hats. Not bashing, pardon the pun. I've never read of either one of them putting down another hatter's hats.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:37 am

My theory is that this block is closer than we think. It is my belief that the wrong turn was made before Temple of Doom. Maybe it will surface on day. Focus has been on the hat. Not the block. Time will

Wow, what took you so long. Some People around here have been saying that for YEARS but were called crazy for it!

called crazy for it "by some of the" very hatters who are now doing just that.

I just think its weird that they held on to their beliefs for so long and now all of a sudden made a 180 and try this. Why this sudden change?
Especially when others explained this to them a while ago

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:47 am

But at least the hatters have taken the actual time and money from their pockets to built and experiment their way through the process to get to their conclusions and have even noted where they've changed their minds, unlike some who just talk about it. Why are you so constantly negative, Dutch?

Post by **Dr. Nebraska S.** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:53 am

Dutch_jones wrote:Wow, what took you so long. Some People around here have been saying that for YEARS but were called crazy for it!

called crazy for it "by some of the" very hatters who are now doing just that.

I just think its weird that they held on to their beliefs for so long and now all of a sudden made a 180 and try this. Why this sudden change?
Especially when others explained this to them a while ago

Dutch, your statements are quite vague and rather contradictory to your statement in this thread that:

Still you're (re)creating a generic fedora block that has been around for ages.

So we have LLS and Fedora both describing how they are focused onrefining their blocks, but you have been responding as if they are using a generic block and are only making adjustments to the specifications of the hat:

My perception is that all you've done with this latest batch is lower the crown height.

Who are these "others" to whom you refer? Where are your own statements about alterations needing to be made to the block? If these hatters are making a "180", then where is your quotations of them from before and after?

I will just say in general that as a scholar I don't give much consideration to bold statements without methodological demonstration of said statements.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:55 am

explained what exactly? I'm not sure i understand what you are saying Dutch

Regards, Geert

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:00 am

binkmeisterRick wrote:But at least the hatters have taken the actual time and money from their pockets to built and experiment their way through the process to get to their conclusions and have even noted where they've changed their minds, unlike some who just talk about it. Why are you so constantly negative, Dutch?

Not trying to be negative, I only want to point out that the this is nothing new it has been said for years.
It's the talking that has spawned other hatters to change the styles of their own hats after many years.

Yes, just imagine where these hats would be if others had NOT only talked about it.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:10 am

You are making the assumption that they would've settled and never continued to refine their craft. Again, these guys have been working on refining them from the beginning.

LLS wrote above:

After working to replicate this block for the last 2 1/2 years, I have learned many things about blocks and how they create a crown effect for a hat. I have concluded that block making was ever bit the artistic creation as a hat was. Block maker had to be very creative individuals. Blocks were very purposeful and mathimatical item. I disallowed the theory that crown shapes were accidental and that all you had to do was to adjust the bash of a hat to get it to look a cartain way. If a few variations a a generic block shape produced every bash style in the world, mine, Fedora and 3thou$ quest would have ended a long time ago.

Where does it say that these guys ever stopped refining and working on their blocks and hats in trying to replicate their desired effect? Where does it say that it was only because others were talking that they continued forward? You treat them as if they have no ability to think on their own. It comes off as sounding negative because you seem to be repeating the same arguments over and over, as well as singling out a "select few" hatters in your opinions.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:30 am

gwyddion wrote:Well, a lot of us were not here before they became vendors and some of those have not read up on the history behind Adventurebilt

Heck, I bet there are even a lot of people here now who weren't here when you first started selling hats.

I do hope people will do some research though and see where you, Steve, Marc and LLS are comming from.

I've set myself a goal to own a hat made by each of you as I realy apreciate what you guys have done. You guys realy got this 'for the gearheads, by the gearheads' thing going that I realy like.

I'd love to see more hats that were made on LLS' block, though judging by the pictures I've already seen and Steve's praise I already know they are going to be great.

Regards, Geert

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:45 am

What I like about LLS's revision is the hat from that angle.

And even the hat from this angle.

I of course can see the improvement over my old blockshape.

From the back shot, there is no change as most of his work concentrated on the back radius and breaking points. This defined area is where my own block was weak, and you can see it only from the profiles of the block.

In so far as Dutch, I give up!

It's like talking to a brick wall. Nothing sinks in.

It is no big secret I have refined my blocks over the years. I was never satisfied with it 100 per cent, or even 99.9 per cent. Finding the time to do these tweaks was hard to do. So hard in fact, that I would let it slide when I knew I was still not completely there in so far as the Raiders fedora was concerned. But, I was after perfection. Whereas I looked to the film, LLS just went after replicating a vintage HJ that I had sent him to peruse. Once he nailed that blockshape, it lended the looks of the Raiders fedora. So, we put two and two together and figured the vintage HJs I had were the same blockshape as used on the Raiders fedora. Not rocket science.

Look, being infactuated with the Raiders fedora causes a guy to go on a quest. But, if the right blockshape had already been out there, no quest would have been needed. I saw it years ago, that nothing came close. Others saw this as well. I just did something about it, and it really surprises me when someone sees this quest as a waste of time. I don't get it, and never will. It is nonsensical, to me, personally.

LLS's work has me 99.9 per cent pleased. In fact, I would not know how to improve anything on this new block. I think any changes would take it away from, and not get any closer to the Raiders block. So, for me personally, the quest is at last.........OVER. LLS satisfied me, and I am a hard guy to please.

If you place my old block and LLS's block side by side, they look the same from the front. But not the sides, and certainly not on the backside, with the breaking points and radius. So, there is a difference in these blocks Dutch. Trust us. Or not, it really does not matter.

Fedora

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:28 pm

Wow, that is great, Steve, I can't wait to send my AB in for its next reblock...or for that matter to try one of LLS's forthcoming creations. I have to admit that as much as I love beaver, I've got the itch to try a nice, thin, floppy rabbit felt. -M

Indiana Kev · Post by **Indiana Kev** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:26 pm

Wow, Steve that first pic looks great!

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:50 pm

that is a nice looking hat

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:16 am

The fruits of your labors; very nice pics.

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:35 am

So Dave, do you have a Benchmark & Elevation for that block or is it just an assumed datum? ;-) Plus, are you using least squares or compass adjustment for the side closures?

Cheers!

Dan

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:08 am

Morning DanielJones,
I always run a closed loop and adjust by using the compass rule. Just old fashioned that way. The benchmark I use is the one I have on the bumper of my truck. That way I'll never be without one. ;-)

Other wise, I let my GNSS system establish one, unless one is provided, of course. Don't get me started!

Back on thread (on line for a surveyor ;-) ), I got my samples of sweatbands in and they are terrific! Instead of calling them sweatbands, I call them SWEET BANDS.

'Till next post,
LLS

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:39 am

Careful with those sweetbands. I hear they are bad for your tooth enamel. ;-)

Dave

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:31 am

Back on thread (on line for a surveyor ), I got my samples of sweatbands in and they are terrific! Instead of calling them sweatbands, I call them SWEET BANDS.

I am assuming these are from the same guy that we talked about. Brad uses them as well, and they do make a great sweatband. Feels more like a jacket leather, but man are they luxurous! If I was not stuck with what I used for the film, I would have changed myself, but probably would have went with Singer. I think John uses them. Singer that is.

Hey LLS, in a survival situation, one could just pull one of those sweats from the hat, and make a thin soup from it! Fedora

Local Land Surveyor · Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:19 am

I am assuming these are from the same guy that we talked about.

Yes. It is the guy. I am not revealing who the supplier is at this point. I recieved overwhelming approval from my R&D department.

This next week is going to be very exiting to me. $\:D/$ That is all I'll say for now.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:06 pm

Fedora wrote:
Back on thread (on line for a surveyor ), I got my samples of sweatbands in and they are terrific! Instead of calling them sweatbands, I call them SWEET BANDS.
I am assuming these are from the same guy that we talked about. Brad uses them as well, and they do make a great sweatband. Feels more like a jacket leather, but man are they luxurous! If I was not stuck with what I used for the film, I would have changed myself, but probably would have went with Singer. I think John uses them. Singer that is.

Hey LLS, in a survival situation, one could just pull one of those sweats from the hat, and make a thin soup from it! Fedora

I'm not saying where I get my sweats from.

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:05 pm

Local Land Surveyor wrote:Morning DanielJones,
I always run a closed loop and adjust by using the compass rule. Just old fashioned that way. The benchmark I use is the one I have on the bumper of my truck. That way I'll never be without one. ;-) Other wise, I let my GNSS system establish one, unless one is provided, of course. Don't get me started!

'Till next post,
LLS

Very good, on line again then.

Cheers!

Dan

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:35 am

I'm not saying where I get my sweats from.

Ah, in the truest tradition of the craft! I hear you my friend.

For those that wonder what sweats are in the film hat, Fern and Thatcher. Out of St Joe Mo. The folks I have used since almost day one. I had originally used Tandy, or American leather, and while the sheepskin was nice and soft, the reeding tape was horrendous! I wasted about a grand on these inferiour sweats, and then found F and T. And have used them ever since. The film hats for the new film have basically kept me from changing, as I am tied in with F and T from here on out. But, I like what I use. They bell out nicely, are sheepskin and I am used to them.

I had heard that they had changed to cowhide, and called them immediately. I knew that my last shipment was not cow, and was elated to find that they were still using sheep. But, they did change their supplier of leather, and I can't tell any difference in them and what they used prior. Looks the same to my eye. If they did not, I would have changed, but only to get a softer leather. The reeding tape on the F and T is outstanding. As well as the reeds. Fedora

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:04 pm

-bump-

Just thought I'd see if there was any 'new' news on this project?

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:27 pm

Just an update on the project:
Since the post Fedora made of his time tested rabbit hat block on my Raiders block, I thought I would give an update on my status. I have been burning a lot of midnight oil. I currently have felt on the blocks and am conducting the stabilizing process test. So far, so good.

This rabbit is a bit different than the beaver I have grown used to in regards to handling. But it is going to be great!

With suppliers it has been like this:

. Some have been good. Some have been...... not so good. I have some field trips lined up. A good surveyor always goes to the field, you know.

I like to see things first hand, so I am looking forward to these field trips. Much like Indy's experiences, learning about different aspects of hat making has taken me to several places on the globe. Not all of them literally, but journeying none the less. Domestic places like Wyoming, Pennsylvania, New York, and California. International like France, Italy, Germany and China (nice try Lao Che). Great learning experience.

To those who have placed a pre order, I will work to complete by the end of the month, but some snags are delaying parts of the hat. I'm working on it. (customer says: What ever you do, do it faster!)

Pre-orders at this point can still be arranged by PM's to me.

Fedora's hat looks great. I viewed this hat back when I visited him. This hat has charatered well! Street of Cairo, here we come!

Also been doing a lot of

. Starting this business seems like I am swimming upstream while everyone else is going down stream considering the economy. Be that as it may, I am really enjoying working on these hats. I wonder if somewhere up my family tree there was a hatter. Seems surreal at times.

'Till next time. I'll update again. Got to get my arms in shape for all this pouncing I'll be starting. Does anyone have Pattersons number? Now where did I put those Karate Kid tapes?

LLS

Caber · Post by **Caber** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:35 am

I cant find where you posted the price in the Cairo Bazaar section. I clicked on the tab below and is said does not exist.

Local Land Surveyor · Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:25 am

......O.K a little to the left.............Back right a tenth............Steady there..............Line is good.........checking the distance............Go out 1.78 feet.........

Oh Hey, Just getting in some surveying. Laying out some building corners. Noticed you had some questions. I'll address them before I set the next building corner point.

I have updated some information in the Cairo Bazaar section. You can contact me via PM. I'll give you my address and payment types. Check it out. As a reminder, when taking your head measurement, give it like this: (22-1/4", 23-7/8"). Take it 3 times.

$\:D/$

Hope this clears up the many PM's I have received.

If you have any more, feel free to PM me.
Well, back to surveying for now...... O.K. let's check that last point again............ good line........... checkin' distance................looks good. Dead on......... next point is............

LLS

LLS Rabbit Raiders Project (Hat Pics Added)

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