agent5 wrote:Platon,
That pic above is of the main hero jacket with the longer collar and rounded off storm flap corner. The corner is really what gives it away. It's not squared off like the Hawaii jacket corner is.
That would make sense, since it's the only Raven Bar picture.
That would make sense, since it's the only Raven Bar picture.
I believe he wore two different jackets in the Imam's house scene. If you look closely one, of the noticeable differences is that one of the jackets has scalloped pocket flaps and the other has not. I am pretty sure about that
and I also believe (not 100% sure) that he wore two different jackets in the Raven Bar scene as well. (need to watch the dvd again)
I'm waiting on my HD copy of Raiders to be returned to me so I can look up some things myself. The HD caps of course, show much more detail than the standard dvd.
Does the collar end in the second from the left of the lower row of the top group of photos have a squared end?
The one jacket with the mismatching collar points makes it fairly easy to identify.
In the photo you are referring to the right side of his collar is squared/pointed and the left is rounded. Watch the bonus feature of Raiders DVD, at the Raven Bar scene, it's clear as a day.
OK
How about the storm flap end. It appears squared not rounded to me. Could there have been two jackets with mismatching collar points but one with a rounded storm flap end and one with a squared storm flap end?
We all know for a fact the Raiders Jackets Ford wore were all made of Lamb and all the other films used cowhide.. Todd Coyles jacket to me is the most accurate Lost ark style jacket!
raiders: lambskin, 1 cowhide jacket in the truck drag scene.
TofD: lambskin
LC: lambskin ( but one jacket looks to be cowhide,but they are most likely Lamb.) I had this confirmed by Peter SO many times that I dont doubt this anymore. he said that the lambskin for the LC jacket where veg tanned lambskin,which gives a thicker and stiffer lamb then chrome tanned lambskin. thats why they look like cowhide...
It's a piece of veg tanned washed lamb that Peter has. It's been there for a couple of years, I've been umming and ahhing about getting a Raiders made in it. In the same batch there are smooth and lined skins, I think that's why he didn't offer it.
I would definitely be interested in a jacket made of this leather. If you throw Holt's specs into the mix I think you would have a jacket that would be hard to beat in the SA category.
Hey Planton,
As I mentioned previously in another thread, I very much disagree that the jacket in the b&w promo pic you posted is also the Banut Wind jacket. To me, they're clearly different jackets.
As you can see from the photos below, the Bantu Wind's jacket side straps has inseam attachment, the b&w promo are external. Furthermore, the Bantu Wind's sleave seam appears to line up with the yoke seam, again, unlike the b&w promo pic jacket. They have similar collars, but that's all...
That's what I see, anyway.
Cheers guys!
PLATON wrote:The only thing I can say is that this jacket
is this jacket
(notice the collar)
and we see it in publicity photos and not in the film, as far as I am aware.
Hummm. I'm not so sure. In the pic below (fromt he same photo shoot) the yoke and sleeve seam don't meet and the straps appear to be higher up and with exterior stitching on the back panel...
Hey guys. Fair enough, and thanks for the photographic examples Eric. However, there's still the issue of the inseam vs. external straps which are clearly different in these pictures. Also, I think the sleave seam lines up with the yoke seam, which -again- varies. Here's a pic, which -granted- is quite small and grainy. How to explain these differences, mainly the inseam vs. external stitching?
I think you may be on to something, that the Bantu Wind jacket was the prototype, they discovered the differences with the second order jackets, (which may have been closer to each other than is speculated especially as far as the back and seam alignment goes) so they went with second order jackets as main jackets.
The 'Bantu Wind' jacket then may well have been given to a stunt man. The other possibility is the jacket examined was an order three stunt jacket, and the order three jackets were different again from the first two order jackets except for the back panel and seam arrangement being the same as the first jacket. There is some slight indication in the current write up that these order three jackets may not have been used much.
Yet another possibility is that it was a jacket from another maker who supplied jackets such as Cooper/USWings.
I guess there are a lot of 'possibilities'
Maybe the new write up will clear some of this up.
Yeah, I think that was me that threw that out there a while back. The theory that Deb got the original, distressed it, shot the Bantu Wind scene that first day, ordered the others. The others arrived which would have quite possibly looked more like each other than the prototype, so they went with 2 of those for the heroes and threw the Bantu jacket into the costume bin.
I can't reconcile the story that the first (Bantu/distressed by the pool) jacket is the hero because of the details simply not matching those seen throughout most of the film. I'm happy to hear an explanation as to how this could be the case, however.
I'm curious about the low yoke. I don't know if _ remembers whether it had a low-yoke or not. But the resulting copies (Expo and Todd's) don't have a yoke as low as it appears in that one Bantu picture. I really don't think it's an optical illusion! Of course, checking pics of my old Expo (ordered 04/01), it's evident that there were already revisions done to the yoke/arm seam configuration.
(I THINK I remember that fake-punch picture being used at that time to revise the Expo.)
No doubt all that with revisions happened fairly quick Baldwyn so by 2001 and your jacket it's no surprise to see that back panel and seam alignment. From the archive many weren't happy with what _ was reporting.
neutronbomb wrote:It sounds like _ provided the specs, but they weren't implemented in whole by Todd's or GB.
The "fake punch"/promopic picture(s) have been argued to be a different jacket than the bantu wind jacket. Holt holds firm that they are the exact same jacket. But, I too am drawn to the appearance of the offset yoke seam and arm seam and additionally the appearance that the strap seems to be attached differently (external vs. internal) as differences between the bantu wind and "fake punch"/promopic jackets.
The offset seams have apparently become ROLA industry standard.
Now I know this is only going to put RCSignals into an upset frenzy, but I can't help but mention that the Slydini jacket had the seams lined up. This was the first jacket posted on COW and was an early (not the first but an early) ROLA jacket from TN. I can't help but remember that right after it was posted there was an outcry from someone saying, "no......not the seams lined up". After that, all the jackets have the offset seams. NOT stirring the pot, but these things ..............
I vaguely recall issues with the seam lining up, but nothing about the yoke, but I'm not a stitch nazi so may have not followed it that closely in those days. I ordered the Expo right after they went into production, so it wasn't a running change. I don't care that they didn't copy a low yoke and lined up seams even if it isn't a direct copy of the jacket on hand, I prefer the current configuration.
The Slydini jacket doesn't have a low yoke, so it's still a puzzle to me. Here's a pic as a reminder (wow, look at it fall of the the "shoulders" of that hanger!) http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn28 ... G_3481.jpg
neutronbomb wrote:It sounds like _ provided the specs, but they weren't implemented in whole by Todd's or GB.
The "fake punch"/promopic picture(s) have been argued to be a different jacket than the bantu wind jacket. Holt holds firm that they are the exact same jacket. But, I too am drawn to the appearance of the offset yoke seam and arm seam and additionally the appearance that the strap seems to be attached differently (external vs. internal) as differences between the bantu wind and "fake punch"/promopic jackets.
The offset seams have apparently become ROLA industry standard.
Now I know this is only going to put RCSignals into an upset frenzy, but I can't help but mention that the Slydini jacket had the seams lined up. This was the first jacket posted on COW and was an early (not the first but an early) ROLA jacket from TN. I can't help but remember that right after it was posted there was an outcry from someone saying, "no......not the seams lined up". After that, all the jackets have the offset seams. NOT stirring the pot, but these things ..............
I vaguely recall issues with the seam lining up, but nothing about the yoke, but I'm not a stitch nazi so may have not followed it that closely in those days. I ordered the Expo right after they went into production, so it wasn't a running change. I don't care that they didn't copy a low yoke and lined up seams even if it isn't a direct copy of the jacket on hand, I prefer the current configuration.
The Slydini jacket doesn't have a low yoke, so it's still a puzzle to me. Here's a pic as a reminder (wow, look at it fall of the the "shoulders" of that hanger!) http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn28 ... G_3481.jpg
It DOES have rectangular rings tho. Hmm...
The Slydini jacket has TN alterations to make it more of a 'correct' jacket. That is, made with improvements he felt would make it a better jacket. He himself will tell you it was at a time he wasn't aware that what fan's wanted was an exact copy, not an improved design.
So as I've said before, ignore the Slydini jacket in comparisons with a 'real' Indy jacket. It stands alone.
Did all three jacket of the third order actually come out like the prototype?
Was the prototype actually the Bantu Wind jacket?
Is Vic Armstrong really wearing a jacket from the third order?
The current write up also indicates "As production began, this plan fell somewhat by the wayside, with only Martin Grace wearing his jacket during the Elstree shooting." This indicates that possibly only one of those three jackets made it on screen. (so it's also possible the jacket worn by Vic Armstrong is not from the third order)
Indiana Holt wrote:here is were I think the raiders jacket appears in TofD.
I mean it just looks so much like it. the color is spot on for raiders I think. it looks to have a much higher yolk then the tofd jacket. the straps points backwards like in raiders. the drape is raiders. everything with this jacket screams raiders to me...also, it looks like the jacket is being worn of the shoulders like he wears it in the begining of raiders...
but I dont think this is Ford.but a stand in, maby the stand in had a production raiders jacket? who knows? to be honest I dont care, but its fun to talk about it...
Look closely at the fake punch jacket It looks like a Temple of Doom one. Small pockets, big silver zip doesn't go to the bottom of the jacket, flat collar with a squared SF top, close fitted sleeves, pleat going into the armpit...
neutronbomb wrote:I'm a little lost KT. Are you saying that in both of these cases different jackets were used than the three orders from Leather Concessionaire's? I just didn't catch what you are trying to point out. Maybe that in both of these cases the apparent differences in these jackets are just an illusion?
I'm saying that is a ToD jacket. I can't remember when the fake punch sequence was shot, but that looks very much like a ToD jacket to me.
The one in from of the Bantu, looks like an early Wested. I used to have one and Sebas still does.
neutronbomb wrote:I'm convinced you're having fun at my expense. It's cool.
Is that the fake punch picture you're talking about. I thought your were referring to a different one. I also thought the picture you just posted with HF and Armstrong was with Armstrong wearing his stunt jacket from the order of 3 from Raiders. Is this the jacket you think looks like the TOD.
This is the one I thought you were referring to:
When I mentioned the fake punch picture, it's this picture that I was referring too (sorry for being so vague!) It's obvious in this photo that the seams aren't lined up, and with that evidence staring at us in face, the Expo was designed not to have the seams lined up despite it being that way in the jacket _ handled.
Kt Templar wrote:Look closely at the fake punch jacket It looks like a Temple of Doom one. Small pockets, big silver zip doesn't go to the bottom of the jacket, flat collar with a squared SF top, close fitted sleeves, pleat going into the armpit...
that needs a photo, because I'm not seeing a jacket that fits that description in teh scene you mention
Kt Templar wrote:
neutronbomb wrote:I'm a little lost KT. Are you saying that in both of these cases different jackets were used than the three orders from Leather Concessionaire's? I just didn't catch what you are trying to point out. Maybe that in both of these cases the apparent differences in these jackets are just an illusion?
I'm saying that is a ToD jacket. I can't remember when the fake punch sequence was shot, but that looks very much like a ToD jacket to me.
The one in from of the Bantu, looks like an early Wested. I used to have one and Sebas still does.
Why would there even be a ToD jacket available for use in Raiders?
I'm not sure what you are suggesting.
How often do we actually see the Bantu Wind jacket in the movie? The one we see in the dockside photo which isn't a movie shot.
neutronbomb wrote:Dude you have completely screwed me up. I need to drink a jolt, smoke a pack of cigarettes, make a pot of coffee, and reread the 400,000 posts I've spent 4 months going through.
I thought the fake punch picture was from the Raiders movie/set/whatever. How could a temple of doom jacket be there when ToD hadn't been made yet. Did they have the TOD jacket completed before/during the Raiders movie and used it in the fake punch picture. Is the fake punch picture from TOD movie? What......
If the Bantu Wind jacket looks like the early Wested with straps attached to the inside, etc. then how could it be one of the three orders of jackets from Leather Concessionaires where the specs are different from what we see through out the movie including the hawaii scenes. Was the Grace jacket specs made differently than all the other jackets. How could this be so. The stunt jackets were supposed to be a carbon copy of the prototype. Was the prototype and the grace jacket made like the bantu wind jacket, but all the other jackets made differently.
God I'm dense or something.
I know what you mean I think. If the dockside Bantu Wind jacket is the Grace jacket it can't be the same jacket as used by Ford in the Hawaii sequence and copied by TN. It's just too different.
It may be possible that the Dockside photo jacket was not the only jacket used in the Bantu wind scenes? But was it not also said in previous discussion the jacket in those scenes was destroyed when they simulated a bullet hole in it?
Kt Templar wrote:Guys before you start jumping up and down. The pics are of Ford sitting next to Vic Armstrong, there is a mock punch.
Wait for them to load, Imageshack is a bit slow tonight.
This sequence was taken on the set of LC. You can clearly see jacket Ford is wearing is an LC.
[/quote]
OK yes in those photos Ford is wearing an LC, and the jacket Armstrong is wearing could be a ToD. Even though it was previously attributed to being his jacket from Raiders.
But are those photos not from the making of LC? I don't get the Raiders and Bantu Wind connections
RCSignals wrote:I've asked too, where in the actual movie do we see Ford (or anyone else) wearing the same jacket we see in that dockside photo?
The one "with the arm sleeve and yoke sleeve seams aligned and the straps attached to the inside" ?
I do not ever remember seeing the Bantu Wind jacket anywhere else in the movie. There are at least a couple of jackets that were interchanged through the movie (Platon has a thread that does a good job of going through this) perhaps more. But I have never seen the jacket with that low yoke on another jacket that appears in the movie.
And I don't see how the Bantu Wind jacket can be the same jacket as the one Tony copied. There are far too many differences for them to be the same jacket. The Bantu Wind jacket is an enigma. The other movie jackets (while having some "superficial" differences) are close in pattern. The Bantu Wind jacket has several different features to it.
I think it's more likely the Bantu wind jacket is the jacket examined in 2000 and in sometime of it's life has some alteration done to it.
It was stated by _ at one time that Ford only wore one jacket in Hawaii. That doesn't mean it was not the Grace jacket, however if the Grace jacket was the same Bantu Wind jacket we are talking about here the jacket Ford wore in HI couldn't have been the Grace jacket.
The only thing I know is my TN looks pretty much exactly like the "fake punch" photo and nothing like the Bantu Wind photos. The general look, esp. the yoke, is all wrong.
My (admittedly baseless) pet theory is still: They sneakily distressed another (unsuccessful) vendor's submitted jacket and used it for that one night while waiting for the jackets to arrive from the U.K.. But that's not the public story. I know, cue X-Files music. And I don't even like conspiracies!
It's cool.
[/quote]
I stand corrected yes the LC jacket was cowhide. TOD only difference was the length and some minor style adjustments from Raiders..
In the same batch there are smooth and lined skins, I think that's why he didn't offer it.
