Christy's Adventurer!

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:15 pm

your post seemed like it could only ( likely ) lead to more gas on the fire.

I wasn't reading to much into it but it seems like you did. i really just wanted to see the results of the reblock and I couldn't see the subtle changes with the pics you posted.

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:32 pm

Well, so far from what I have seen, the examples from Tremolo, Erri & Kiltie look fine to me. Fairly straight, bashed well (especially Erri's) and worn with a certain degree of pride.

Thank you folks for sharing your examples & interpretations of a famous lid. You have taken something iconic and have made it yours. Even if it may be of lesser quality materials from the original, and might not be comparable to pure beaver lids, it is still a nice little bang for the buck that seems to hold it's own. Good job guys.

Cheers!

Dan

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:48 am

Michaelson wrote:Anyone remember 'The Shadow' movie. I'm definitely that professor.

Haha my thought exactly

Daniel Jones thanks again for the compliment. Someone could explain to me why I'm not receiving email alert for this thread?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:08 pm

I am happy these hats seem to hold up so well! I am also deeply mystified. Heck, I have only held in hand a few hundred of them, and none of those would survive one month on my head in Ms, in the summer, without turning into a cone. But, that is only MY experience. Yours may differ. And going by some posts here, indeed they have!

All I can say, is either you lucked up and got an anomaly, or the hats were never really worn the way I wear my hats. It's one of the other. Of course, I could have gotten a couple hundred bad hats in......NAH, I don't think so. What are the odds of that occurring? The laws of natural occurences have been suspended. And being a very logical guy, this could drive a logical guy completely bonkers.

That's the trouble you run into when you work with various felts almost daily. You experience what these felts offer, and when you get reports that totally defy your own experience, your first thought is, this guy is lying through his teeth. Now, you can't help those thoughts, if you have a vast amount of experience regarding felt, and this particular felt. But, I don't think anyone is lying, so don't throw your hat at me! So, that leaves the point of we don't wears our hats the same way, or an anomaly is involved. I am leaning towards the anomalies. Wearing a hat in Texas is like wearing one in my State. Logically, it has to be an anomaly. And that is as deep as I am willing to think about this miraculous phenomon. I can think about it in this manner and retain my sanity, and not get folks mad at me.

I certainly don't want that to happen, as this is not THAT important in the grand scale of things. But, NOT to voice my true feelings is doing no service to the community either. Some folks actually think I know what I talk about. Some don't.

That is fine. I can live with it. At the end of the day, if folks are happy with any particular hat, I am happy for them. Puzzled, but happy. Now, regards to all of you hat lovers. You are my kind of folks!!! And, don't take what I write in the wrong way. I never want to insult anyone, but do have a habit of returning insults with insults, and I acknowledge, it is childish behaviour. From me, or from you. But, we as humans are all flawed, and I am well aware of my own imperfections, and the Good Lord is well aware of my forgiveness prayers that he gets all too often. Fedora

lazarus_arkane · Post by **lazarus_arkane** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:38 pm

well fedora, it would seem you and i have the same problem with hats. most hats i've ever had, have never lasted much longer than a couple of months before calling it quits. and I have to agree that some of these christy's are quite the anomaly, as my christy's didn't last more than a couple of months. but then i guess it really wasn't designed for someone that works outside on their horseranch all day long. that was before i found this forum and was able to learn what is and isn't a durable long lasting hat. so i want to thank all of you here at COW for everything i have learned about what makes a quality hat. if it wasn't for all of you, i would still be lost in the world of hats.

and all i have to say is, all of you that have these seem to be quite durable christy's, you are quite lucky people. as i look at my lifeless looking christy's, i'm jealous.

Jack

lazarus_arkane · Post by **lazarus_arkane** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:50 pm

and just to make something clear, as i've seen in previous posts on this thread of some getting upset when the christy's was put down. i'm not putting the christy's down in anyway. i admit my christy's didn't turn out to be worth much, but that doesn't mean all the christy's adventurers are like that. so hopefully no one gets upset with me for anything i've said. i'm still quite new to this forum and don't want to start any trouble with anyone. i'm just wanting to make friends and talk about indy, and hats etc.

Jack

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:12 pm

lazarus_arkane wrote:well fedora, it would seem you and i have the same problem with hats. most hats i've ever had, have never lasted much longer than a couple of months before calling it quits. and I have to agree that some of these christy's are quite the anomaly, as my christy's didn't last more than a couple of months. but then i guess it really wasn't designed for someone that works outside on their horseranch all day long. that was before i found this forum and was able to learn what is and isn't a durable long lasting hat. so i want to thank all of you here at COW for everything i have learned about what makes a quality hat. if it wasn't for all of you, i would still be lost in the world of hats.

and all i have to say is, all of you that have these seem to be quite durable christy's, you are quite lucky people. as i look at my lifeless looking christy's, i'm jealous.

Jack

got any pics of her? i'd like to see how yours turned out

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:14 pm

Its very hot and humid here in Miami as well. I've been in Mississippi during summer time and I can tell you that South Florida summer is just as bad. I wore my Christy's throughout the summer and it only seems to look better. I didn't wear it all the time; I had my Penman on most of the time, but I wasn't afraid to wear it all day long in the blazing heat and drowning humidity. I would say that it is possible that the run of felt that most of us got, and most of us here bought our Christy's a round the same time so it is very possible, is better quality than what normally comes out. Maybe Christy's requests a better quality felt. Just becuase HJ and Christy's are produced in the same factory with similar materials doesn't mean its exactly the same. I'd venture to say that the quality of each Christy's varies. The overall outcome of these hats has been a positive one though. Only very few of them have been bad...to be continued in a second post. The PS3 wont let me post more than this.

Dave

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:19 pm

Look at all the problems people have with Wested. I hear more complaints about Wested than any other jacket and yet people generally have a good opinion of Wested. Many swear by Wested. I see the same issue with Christy's. A few have not stood up to the elements but the vast majority have faired very well. In my opinion, this is the second best factory hat you can get to replicate the Raiders look, the Henry is the first. And as far as pure rabbit goes, I'd say this is best. Also, Hornets has worked to correct any bad hats that have been purchased. I personally think this is way to go for a factory rabbit Raiders hat.

Dave

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:22 pm

DR Ulloa wrote:Look at all the problems people have with Wested. I hear more complaints about Wested than any other jacket and yet people generally have a good opinion of Wested. Many swear by Wested. I see the same issue with Christy's. A few have not stood up to the elements but the vast majority have faired very well. In my opinion, this is the second best factory hat you can get to replicate the Raiders look, the Henry is the first. And as far as pure rabbit goes, I'd say this is best. Also, Hornets has worked to correct any bad hats that have been purchased. I personally think this is way to go for a factory rabbit Raiders hat.

Dave

what about akubra?....besides the fact that their brims are too short?? ;-)

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:38 pm

Indiana G wrote:
DR Ulloa wrote:Look at all the problems people have with Wested. I hear more complaints about Wested than any other jacket and yet people generally have a good opinion of Wested. Many swear by Wested. I see the same issue with Christy's. A few have not stood up to the elements but the vast majority have faired very well. In my opinion, this is the second best factory hat you can get to replicate the Raiders look, the Henry is the first. And as far as pure rabbit goes, I'd say this is best. Also, Hornets has worked to correct any bad hats that have been purchased. I personally think this is way to go for a factory rabbit Raiders hat.

Dave
what about akubra?....besides the fact that their brims are too short?? ;-)

Their crowns are way too tall

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:41 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:Their crowns are way too tall

fed iii's maybe, but not the fed iv. i find it hard to get a deep center crease in her. i find the side dimensions of the brim to be too short. the folks that snap the brim down on both the front and back however look great.....not raiders, but a great fed none the less.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:52 pm

Fedora,
I will throw you this bone ;-) ,

As hats go, I'm a "pinch grabber". Between my original shaping, the rain leading to further shaping, then the reblock leading to even more futzing, I have noticed some adverse effects. The Raiders style creasing in and of itself is already taxing, so with the additional fooling around, I do think the front of my hat is tired of being messed with, and I've had to make myself aware of taking it off by the brim edges. The felt has developed what I can best describe as - a looser quality. I suspect this is an open door to a number of other problems, but right now I'm primarily concerned about pinching a hole in the front of my hat.

This, of course, is a problem that any hat would have after SOME degree of abuse; it's just a question of what degree that is. The primary problem I'm having with this debate is not the screen accuracy issue, but what people are expecting out of a hundred dollar dress hat. It's roundly agreed by anyone who wears a hat beyond the Indy styles that, "they just don't make 'em like they used to." Of course, that's barring custom, and then ensuring that the person doing the custom job is scoring some quality materials from the get go. Anywho... You don't walk behind the plow in your Sunday shoes, right? You don't run the Baja 5000 in your Camry, right? This hat IS NOT made for alligator rasslin'. Why, for a hundred bones, would you expect it to be? That said, it does hold up. It holds up well. If you can do it in a Wested, you can do it in this hat.

Very few hats are going out the front door with a screen accurate Indy bash on a bona fide adventure and coming back totally SA, and even then you'd have to do a little fussing. This hat is not going over a waterfall, then getting shaped good as new. It's not beaver. It's not even the best rabbit hat. HOWEVER, I fully expect it would survive the fall, and come back with some character and/or survive the reblock when you got back to civilization. What's everybody's big deal about, "...will it do this.....will it do that...???" If you want that, first off, you need more that a hundred bucks. Secondly, you wouldn't even do those things in a good vintage, because you'd want to take care of it ( at least, I would ). I KNOW there are people who baby their ABs, regardless of whatever claims about their endurance are made ( and there's plenty of reliable testimony to that effect, including the resident adventurers ), because hey, that's a heck of a lot of scratch to drop on a hat and a hella long wait, to boot! Thirdly, and as illustrated by the second point - you gotta find the guy who's gonna make it, be it Mr. Delk, PB, JPD, whomever... It's not coming off a rack.

I can already hear it..."Well an Akubra will hold up..." Yeah it will. In spades. I love my Adventurer. But this hat ( the Christys' ) LOOKS like an Indy hat the way no other OTR does. That's what you get for a hundred dollars. That, and a hat that holds up pretty well under a variety of conditions.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:29 am

Indiana G wrote:
DR Ulloa wrote:Look at all the problems people have with Wested. I hear more complaints about Wested than any other jacket and yet people generally have a good opinion of Wested. Many swear by Wested. I see the same issue with Christy's. A few have not stood up to the elements but the vast majority have faired very well. In my opinion, this is the second best factory hat you can get to replicate the Raiders look, the Henry is the first. And as far as pure rabbit goes, I'd say this is best. Also, Hornets has worked to correct any bad hats that have been purchased. I personally think this is way to go for a factory rabbit Raiders hat.

Dave
what about akubra?....besides the fact that their brims are too short?? ;-)

There is nothing wrong with a Federation, I just think that the Christy's pulls off the Raiders look better. The Federation will hold up better, sure, but I didn't buy the Christy's to go on hiking trips in the Andes.

Dave

RaiderZee · Post by **RaiderZee** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:54 am

Howdy,

I have a Fed IV Deluxe. Love it, but yeah I think the Christy's pulls off the Raiders look better. I ended up doing an LC bash with the Fed, which I think the Fed pulls off in spades.

If I knew I'd get a GOOD Christy's, I'd have bought one by now. As it is I went with a JPD Raiders (on order). Still, I'll probably get a Christy's down the road.

RaiderZee

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:40 am

DR Ulloa wrote:I'd venture to say that the quality of each Christy's varies.

Now that is a scary thought

Your example with Wested is dead-on though. Same thing going on here.
By the way I bought my two hats several months a part and they are both just as good, I don't know how long a "run" of felt goes on for and when all of you bought your hats but, although I can agree that not all the hats are perfect, hey afterall these are all handmade, I still believe that the few hats that arrived in bad conditions are just exceptions and I still don't understand why people didn't return them instead of experimenting (mod edited for language) home-made reblocks, steaming, lousy bashes and then sending them to Steve as last resort, I'm not referring to anyone in particular but these are the cases which I have witnessed till now from the people who received Christy's hats in bad conditions.

About "what's wrong with the Fed"... well as many other people already noticed, Christy's can give a better raiders look and in a previous old discussion (a heated one I'm sorry to say) it already came out the fact that the Fed is not strictly an Indy hat... it just has a generic vintage look that will make happy plenty of fans either from Indygear and the Fedora Chronicles without being exclusively indy-orientated.
I think if they took the old fed and made it shorter perhaps we woudln't be here saying how the christy can pull a better raiders bash than the fed

but I do not wish to start that argument again. Only now there is (finally!) a revisionism on how tall an Indy hat should be and believe me, just one year ago everyone would have sworn that a height like the Christy's one is too short for the job. (Useless to point out that I was with very few others claiming that it was never 6" tall or thereabouts, but that's another story).

As for the federation holding better, don't know about the new one (has anything changed in the felt aswell? I honestly don't know) but it is sure fresh in my mind the fact that most of the people around here were sending their old feds all to Steve for reblocking, that's why I never bought one and instead I saved money for an Adventurebuilt rabbit when I bought my very first hat.

By the way I am still not getting alerts for this thread!

The funny thing is that even the people who dislike these hats still have intention of purchasing one eventually, if they haven't done it already. I guess that's a good thing

lazarus_arkane · Post by **lazarus_arkane** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:48 am

kiltie wrote: Anywho... You don't walk behind the plow in your Sunday shoes, right? You don't run the Baja 5000 in your Camry, right? This hat IS NOT made for alligator rasslin'. Why, for a hundred bones, would you expect it to be? That said, it does hold up. It holds up well. If you can do it in a Wested, you can do it in this hat.

I agree you wouldn't do those things, or try working outside in a dress hat. When i bought my christy's it was before i knew very much about hats. I was a newbie to this kind of thing, and assumed that any furfelt hat was a good one and that could take a bit of a beating and last a while. It wasn't until i found this forum that i found out how much i really didn't know about hats. oh boy was there so much i didn't know.

TomTom · Post by **TomTom** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:51 am

I would never compare a beaver hat with a rabbit. Never!

I know Steve's intention for a quality hat. Today I have a CS AB and an AB Dlx Raiders style. That's enough. I don't need more quality hats. If one of these is saturated by a rain storm and it rains the other day too I grab the other one. So, no need for a third beaver.

But I want other lids, rabbits and other block shapes.

A few years ago I bought a HJ from replix (the german site). I thought I bought the real Indy hat with an outstanding quality. After a few months it was tapered. And only COW told me the meaning of taper. I was very dissapointed and went for an ABD.

Then Aeris Canon post the first pics of the Christy's. When it came to the fact, the Christy's would be the same hat than HJ, I knew I must have get one. Why? Because the price and my experience. Now I know the Christy's/HJ ist meant for. Wear it in a nice whether and it will last more than a couple of months. Is it tapered like a dwarfs cap, throw it away and buy a new one.

A reblock by Marc would cost 50,- Euros. New sweat, lining and ribbon excl. A new Christys costs 70,- Euros. So what?

Saw an old movie last days with Spencer Tracey and Katherine Hepburn (Woman Of The Year). Tracey wanted to impress Hepburn. He bought a new fedora and put his old one in the trash bin (and it was a well worn hat with an accurate Raiders pinch).

What I want to say: The Christy's isn't the best hat. But for price and block shape and THE FEEL OF THE FELT, you can get a nice hat for dry weather. It's floppy from the beginning. No break-in-time needed like an akubra. I love this hat the same way I love my AB's they will last me propably the rest of my life. The Christy's will not. But for that there will be the Online-Shop hornets hats.

So don't compare a rabbit to a beaver. You wouldn't compare a vw-beetle with a hummer, would you? Because both are good cars in their own way. ;-)

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:47 am

Thanks for your post TomTom, it's curious to know this from a previous owner of a HJ replix

TomTom · Post by **TomTom** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:53 am

Because I love the Christy's felt.

The question ist what do I expect from my hat. If you want a perfect straight sided? Buy an AB. If you want high quality felt wearable in any weather? Buy a beaver. If you want an authentic Raiders felt hat bashed like Raven Bar or Well of Souls, buy a Christy's. You will get a floppy hat that serves you very well. But do not try to see more in the hat than what it is. Just a dress hat. Worn by nice englishmen with coat and umbrella.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:27 pm

I can only agree Tom ;-)

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:45 pm

Just a dress hat. Worn by nice englishmen with coat and umbrella.

Makes sense to me.

And really, at the price of a Christy from Hornets, makes it a very desirable hat.

Of course, if Indy was a real person, he would not being wearing an HJ or a Christy. Not if he wanted the hat to make it through his adventures. Which, I would assume that he would. Wait, I will have to take that back!!!! The HJs back in the 30's and 40's etc, would have held up. So, I reverse that statement.

Ok, he would not wear a modern HJ or Christy.

Some info on the felt from HJ and Christy. This factory makes their own rabbit felt. And, they have the ability to make high quality rabbit/hare. They just use that felt on their upper drawer hats, which the Christy and HJ are not in that category. And one reason I said in one post that if they would use their top of the line rabbit, I would buy one today, even if it cost more than my own beaver hats. But, understand, I am a durability/quality kind of guy. A hat snob. And, proud of it. So, this keeps me from buying many hats. But heck, I have spent 7500 bucks on hats, prior to making my own. I think that is enough!

Once I found a felt that can outlast me, I pretty much stick with it. But then, everything that I own is really high quality stuff, as the low quality stuff doesn't stay around me very long. I get rid of it. Use to just give em away.

On the Christy pulling off those Raider looks mentioned, well, not to me. Some look close, but you can pretty much tell the radius's are not quite right, but for many, close enough is good enough. Nothing wrong with that either. All of us are not afficionados. I think JPD's number 52 block looks more accurate. And several blockshapes will get you close enough for many. I am just not in that category. The small details matter to me. I do think the block used on the current crops of Hjs and Christys are the LC block. It is a dead ringer, especially the profile shots. The profile shot of a Raiders HJ, (and you don't really get but one) is totally different from the LC profile shot. Not the same blocks. When you realize that many different blocks can pull off the Raiders look, not perfectly, but close enough for some, you will then understand a bit more about the block itself. But, I realize and understand that many of us just can't see it. Back when I was in cabinets and counter tops, we had a saying in the trade. "A trained eye." A trained eye can see differences in cabinets and tops, that the regular Joe can't see. A great cabinet maker has a trained eye. A lessor one doesn't. I was always looking for employees that had the ability to develop a trained eye, because every now and then you had a customer who had one as well. And, you had to satisfy that customer. The other 99 per cent who would not notice the small things just got better installations, without ever knowing it!

The thing is, many people can never develop a trained eye. I know this from experience of hiring many folks over the years in the cabinet shop. The ones who could develop a trained eye, got raises, the other ones did not, which made them leave me in search of a job with better raises. Man, way off topic, cabinets and all, but it is an illustraton, and an explanation how one guy can say, "dead on Raiders hat" while another will say, "nah, not even close". Some folks just are born with the trained eye I guess. And probably become artists. Fedora

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:58 pm

I said that the Christy's makes a better Raiders hat than the Federation, not that it is a dead ringer. If I have offended you, then I am sorry...sorry, I say Temple last night. I can tell that this block is not the same block. Close, yes, but not exact. I spoke about that a few pages back. I do think this is the closest felt we can get to the Raiders felt, though. I've been wanting to make my own block for a while now and am sure that what I would make would be closer to the film hat than anything we see here. No offense Steve, but when I first joined these boards and I saw most of these hats, I knew what was wrong with most of the, right away and it was the back...on some, it was more than that. Don't know why it took you so long to figure out the back radius of the Raiders hat. I'm not flinging mud here. I'm just saying that if a person new to hats in that respect could point out what was wrong, you could have. ;-)

Dave

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:58 pm

Steve you certainly are a living anti american-stereotype example, leaving no space to consumerism, good for you. By the way I'm sure people just said a "good raiders look" Steve, even "great raiders look" if you fancy but not "dead on" there is a big gap to that and we would never steal that definition from your creations. ;-)

Fedora wrote:When you realize that many different blocks can pull off the Raiders look, not perfectly, but close enough for some, you will then understand a bit more about the block itself. But, I realize and understand that many of us just can't see it.

Makes you wonder about those hats which are considered even less accurate

TomTom · Post by **TomTom** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:06 pm

Steve, I saw when I bought the HJ six years ago this block shape is not the raiders block. It's close when you see the hat in front. But from the sideview there is too much back taper. That's why I bashed my Christy's (and the long gone HJ) as an LC.

But some people love the rabbit felt and the slight taper which works for the Raven Bar or Well Of Souls bash. The Quality is okay with it's price and you get the authentic felt (not the same used in 1980 of course). Maybe LLS will fix that: a good quality raiders felt with the right block for an affordable price. But if so, I would buy a Christy's either, because there is something on this hat. I don't know what it is, but I like this hat.

I know your philosophie, Steve, your passion about hats and quality. That's the reason I purchased two hats from you. I agree 100% with you. But the Christy's thing is something special. Maybe only rabbit afficionados can understand. Maybe it's the block, maybe the price. For me, I think, it is the feel of the felt and the colour. This shades of different brown is pure magic. There are all nuances in one hat like in raiders. You have the deep brown, in the sun the light brown, it flows in a reddish tone, sometimes in a green tone. Never saw this before.

You needed years to create the right block. And after I build my own block, I know how many work you put in. But see it on this way, if you could offer the real raiders hat, from Mr. Swales original block, there would be some people say, "no, that's not what I want." I think there is a lot of personal taste. How looks the hat on my head. You said it in a post before, the slight taper fits better to most peoples headshape. Maybe this is the success for the Christy's.

Whatever, I am a fan of you. Of you and Adventurebilt. And I give a lot to your experience and craftmanship. I like the CS Fedora. It has charakter. Also have the Christy's. More than every hat of hatters who try to replicate the AB block. Go with the originals and you will be pleased. That goes for AB and for Christy's.

Amen

Sorry for my bad english. School was long ago.

lazarus_arkane · Post by **lazarus_arkane** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:17 am

from what I can see, all of this boils down to a topic that everyone will have to agree to disagree. Some like the christy's, some don't. Some will say it is of a good quality and SA and will stand by it, and others will believe the opposite.

Like the christy's i have, I don't think its hardly worth anything at all as far as wearing it. but would i ever get rid of it, no way, because even though the crown has died on me, the brim is in good enough condition which i use to practice my brim shaping on. and once i get around to it, i plan to attempt making my own hat block once i can learn enough about it, and the christy's will be my practice hat on that as well. Hopefully by doing so, i will be able to save it and return it to its original condition and from then on, will be a dress hat only.

so i guess in a way, my christy's did turn out to be something quite wonderful. because of my luck in getting a bad christy's, it has pushed me in the direction of learning how to reblock my own hats. which if i had never bought the christy's i may have never come to the decision of learning this craft. so i have the christy's hat company to thank for that.

yay, go christy's

Jack

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:30 am

Indiana G wrote:
Dutch_jones wrote:Their crowns are way too tall
fed iii's maybe, but not the fed iv. i find it hard to get a deep center crease in her. i find the side dimensions of the brim to be too short. the folks that snap the brim down on both the front and back however look great.....not raiders, but a great fed none the less.

Fedora said not too long ago the raiders hat was between 5 1/4 and 5 1/2 so that makes the Fed 4 TOO tall;)

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:25 pm

Too tall for Screen Accuracy...but some paople need a taller hat as a 5 1/2 doesn't look quite right.

Cheers

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:37 am

Dutch_jones wrote:
Indiana G wrote:
Dutch_jones wrote:Their crowns are way too tall
fed iii's maybe, but not the fed iv. i find it hard to get a deep center crease in her. i find the side dimensions of the brim to be too short. the folks that snap the brim down on both the front and back however look great.....not raiders, but a great fed none the less.
Fedora said not too long ago the raiders hat was between 5 1/4 and 5 1/2 so that makes the Fed 4 TOO tall;)

I suppose so, but all of the fed 4's posted here on people's heads appear shorter than the hat on Mr. Ford's head when he's sitting at the Cairo bar with the monkey. They all look like Last Crusade heighth hats to me. The fed III is a tall hat though and looks more the part to me even if somehow the measurements are in fact too tall.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:42 am

Okay,
I've got two hats coming in the mail: A vintage Christys' and ( I finally broke down to see what all the hubbub was about ) a Federation. That means I'll have two hats to play with. That said, I decided to mess with my Christys' ( the one posted on this thread ) some more.

I decided I wanted to take some of the flanging effect out of the back of the brim, so i started ironing it. I noticed that in addition to the stiffener being reactivated, it was also taking on an obviously "ironed" look; pressed, if you will. As you may have seen, I described a "loose" look to the felt composition at the front pinch in my last post. I figured, "Hmmm... maybe I can just iron that out." So I did. I pushed out the creases and stuffed a sweatshirt into the crown and ironed away. Well, the felt took on a newer look with the stiffener having been reactivated, and I assume the felt sorta shrank back together. I figured as long as I was at it, I'd do the whole crown

. So I ironed around the crown real quick, then took the shirt out. I tried my best to push the crown out symetrically with my hands, while the felt was still at it's most pliable ( before the stifferner started to cool ). Then I put the creases back in, being insistant in a few key places, and set it down to, uh, set in.

So far there hasn't been a radical change beyond to way the felt looks ( like it just came off the block ). I figured there was no point in posting pictures just yet. Tomorrow I'm going to get after my front pinch, which is a tad unsatisfactory right now, and after I do, I'll post some pictures.

So how's that for something else you can do fairly guiltlessly with a hundred dollar hat? Also, a testament to the fact that I knew the felt would stand up to the ironing and the aggressive pushing from the inside of the crown ( took the liner out BTW... maybe to stay out for summer - we'll see ). Sort of a backhanded compliment. So I'm hoping I don't wake up to a size 48 hat in the morning. Either way, pictures to come.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:37 am

Kiltie my curiosity is indeed aroused... I don't usually abuse of this but I must say... ;0

and that's what I have to say

LOL, just kidding but I'll be curious to see your two new purchases. How vintage is the Christy's hat you just received anyway?

bigrex wrote:but all of the fed 4's posted here on people's heads appear shorter than the hat on Mr. Ford's head when he's sitting at the Cairo bar with the monkey. They all look like Last Crusade heighth hats to me. The fed III is a tall hat though and looks more the part to me even if somehow the measurements are in fact too tall.

Try measuring the height with the ribbon and you might get results that don't match the visual effect that you are getting. Try.
Judging just by the look only, one can get deceived.
Do also the same then with Last Crusade hat, it might be educative.

Anyway if I am not mistaken the new fed is 5 3/4 or a bit shorter. So slightly less than the previous (6") and yet not 5.5. The new height works on many more heads than the previous 6" version did, that's my opinion, (and I'm still of the thought that the old block at a pure height of 5 1/2 would have done the trick).
Anyway, there will always be people who want "top hats" for indy hats and nobody can say anything about personal taste as long as personal taste of the most doesn't turn into an incontroventible "Truth" like it used to be a while ago.

Post by **Dr. Nebraska S.** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:49 am

Erri wrote:Anyway if I am not mistaken the new fed is 5 3/4. So slightly less than the previous (6") and yet not 5.5.

Just to jump in here for a moment--it's actually a little shorter than 5 3/4. According to HatsDirect website, the actual crown height of the Federation IV is 5 5/8 inches--meaning that it's closer to 5.5 than to 6 inches: http://www.hatsdirect.com/federation/sp ... tions.html

Anyway, sorry for the tangent.

We now return you to discussion of the Christy's. ;-)

Best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:52 am

Yep, I was just correcting myself ;-)

... and yes I hijacked it into a Federation thread myself, sorry about that.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:49 pm

I think I killed my hat

!!!

More like negligent homicide. Actually, the body doesnt look too, too bad. Between the body wanting to shrink and my distorting it from the inside while it was setting, well... let's just say it's asymetrical:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_0816.jpg

It's not so much taper, but the hat is actually leaning. Sorry about the crummy picture, but I tried to illustrate the way the front pinch and bow side are fighting each other. That lean was always a bit of a problem with this hat, right from it's original block, as far as getting an ideal Raiders look from my less experienced hands...

Here's the back brim, which came out okay, and was the reason I got out the iron in the first place:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_0822.jpg

"That's funny, the damage doesn't look as bad from out here...":

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_0819.jpg

Anyway, I'm not really especially put off by the shape of the hat; it's what I expected after all. No...my problem is, I think I scortched the stiffener - maybe even melted it or otherwise caused it to bind to the felt. Whatever the case, I've been messing around with it for the last little bit here, and it's just not getting soft again. Plus, it's maintaining that fresh blocked sheen. I'm pretty sure I burned it, but could not say what chemical process took place, exactly.

Yes, I will be getting another one of these, and I think I came up with a good adjective to explain, for me, why I will - I'll get another Christys' because they're FUN hats.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:23 pm

I may have posted a tad prematurely. I just got finished beating the ever-loving snot out of my hat ( sat on it, rolled it lengthwise and crosswise, etc...), and this is what I came up with:

Getting better. Lots of the sheen came off, but still not quite the floppy Christys' we've come to know and love. If something really radical happens, I'll put up more pics.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:31 pm

So do you suggest NOT to iron it?

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:38 pm

Yeah, if you wanna relax the back brim ( and, of course, I'm not necessarily talking to you Erri - I know you've got things WELL in hand ;-) ), I'd suggest just spritzing it with distilled water on the brim.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm

I asked a while ago how to straighten the brim and Indiana G was very helpful on this matter but at the same time terrorized me about ironing the brim... so I haven't tried anything yet really. Taking my time here with experiments

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:16 am

I ironed the brim of my Christy's witha very heavy towel on over it and it left just the right amount of curl to the back of the brim. IO didn't iron for too long either. Might be something to consider.

Dave

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:26 pm

I can still get some good results just by pulling down the back brim for now... but I'll keep your method in consideration Dr Ulloa.

This is what I get by pulling down the brim on the back

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:44 am

Here's a quick aside:

I got that old Christys' in the mail yesterday. Christys', by Biltmore. Beaver blend. This hat is PRISTINE! For those interested, here are a few shots.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_0835.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_0838.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_0839.jpg

Anyone unfamiliar with vintage ( and I'm no expert ): This hat is extremely soft, but not "floppy". It has a Cavanaugh type edge at the brim like they just don't make anymore. When you want to shape it, you take it out of the box, form it up the way you want it, put it on your head, and tweak it; the bash stays put. When you're done for the day, take it off and push it back open. OR, you can leave it as is, and eventually it will get trained. I have a very similar Stetson Twenty.

The ribbon is like the newer Christys', save for the fact it doesn't look like an escaped maniac patient did the sewing. Otherwise, TOTALLY different hat. Not just because it was made under a different umbrella ( Biltmore ), but because, well, they just don't make 'em like the used to. Neat block-shape, though, huh?

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:56 am

Very nice purchase kiltie, I'm not a fan of that kind of brim edge but nonetheless a sweet hat. Thanks for the pictures. I like the fact that you put a bash in it and then "unbash" it again at the end of the day.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:36 pm

Nice, kiltie! I used to have a hat identical to that one a long time ago. I could write a book called "Hats I Have Known" to chronicle all the lids I've owned at one time or another.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:58 pm

Erri and Bink -

Thanks a lot. Not quite Indy, but I can call it my close enough "Seaplane/Train" hat ;-) .

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

It's a beaut as it is. I wouldn't change a thing. ;-)

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:59 am

Hey thats really cool , but how about a pic of you with the thing on

its a shame we see so many hats on table shots already

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:03 pm

You don't walk behind the plow in your Sunday shoes, right? You don't run the Baja 5000 in your Camry, right? This hat IS NOT made for alligator rasslin'. Why, for a hundred bones, would you expect it to be? That said, it does hold up. It holds up well. If you can do it in a Wested, you can do it in this hat.

Your right, I don't plow in my Sunday shoes, but would plow with a 600 dollar set of Aldens. What else would I do with the Aldens? Put them on display? They are a pair of boots for gosh sakes. Boots are made for work and or hiking, backpacking, etc. Back in 1975, I spent 250 bucks on a pair of Pivetta hiking boots. They are still with me today. I think I got my money's worth, although back in 75, 250 bucks was alot of money. But, with many things, you get what you pay for. That has been my experience.

You know, the old cowboys used to spend a months salary on a beaver hat. And then they would wear them until they literally fell apart. That is the same way I feel about hats. If a hat is not durable, I really don't want it, but I am a durable type of guy. Only because durablity equals quality. I am a quality nut, always have been. All of my backpacking equipment is the best that money can buy. You don't want failure when you are several days away from civilization. That is my mindset with everything that I buy, and own. So, I basically detest low quality products. Even my irons in the hat shop were made back in the 40's and 50's. I have to go back that far to find quality irons. I drive a Nissan because I have owned two other Pathfinders and they were good for over 300,000 miles, each one of them. I seek out the high quality stuff, regardless of what it is. Not just hats. And my biggest problem with HJ or Christy is the quality. Now, to many the quality may be ok, but I would submit that this is only an uninformed person's opinion. Take one into any small hatmaker, and I think you would get the same opinion. Or let one of these vintage hat collectors give an opinion. They would agree with me. I would bet on it.

But with that said, the price is very cheap for a Christy. And, the price sells things. I understand that. And you are getting exactly what you paid for it, in terms of longevity and durabiltiy. This is not anything new, a new concept. But, this sort of hat will never become an old friend. I like old friends. And I am not one bit surprised that some could care less about a hat lasting for 25 years.(my own modern HJ lasted almost two years) We don't live in that sort of society today. But, I grew up in a durabilty society. Back when we made our own toasters, and shoes, and all of the other stuff. Today, even my apple juice come from China, and I go through hand steamers at the rate of one every 2 months. Stuff does not last like it used to. I buy disposable steamers, and it irks me. In the same way, disposable hats irk me. But, that is just me! I don't expect everyone to feel the same way. But if they did, we would have an easier time pulling ourselves out of the economic woes we are in today. But it seems the masses of Americans would rather buy cheap Chinese made goods to save a buck, at the detriment of their neighbors who used to make these products, and made them better with some longevity in the equation. So, this cheap hat deal certainly does not surpries me at all! It fits in with what is going on today with Globilization and cheap labor. Just another cheap product in price and materials used. But, heck, if you love it, you love it! But, don't flame me if I don't. I am too old, and too set in my ways to change now. If I were to buy a hat, I want one that will outlast me. But only because I can't see buying something that I already know is not up to the challenge. Why would I just waste that money! But, my parents were of the Great Depression, and that influences me. So, when I started making hats, I sought and found high quality bodies and parts to use. Heck, I could have used a 5 dollar body, but in good conscience, could not do so. I guess I don't like it that many hat factories really don't care to produce high quality headwear. That's my biggest gripe. And the Christy, HJs, Stetsons, Resistols, etc all fall into this category today, in the dress hat market. They are but a ghost of what they used to be. And, I don't' have to like it! Fedora

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:14 pm

Steve, pardon moi, I think you have been making your point very clear for a long time. I'm sure everyone has understood by now. It appears that this thread is for appreciators of cheap stuff only, I don't understand why are you still attracted by posting your fairly-well-argumented opinion in such a thread. I thought the point of quality has been already well covered about these hats

havershaw · Post by **havershaw** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:30 pm

Fedora wrote:And my biggest problem with HJ or Christy is the quality. Now, to many the quality may be ok, but I would submit that this is only an uninformed person's opinion. Take one into any small hatmaker, and I think you would get the same opinion. Or let one of these vintage hat collectors give an opinion. They would agree with me. I would bet on it.

I am one of those vintage hat collectors. I have close to 50. And Fedora is 100% right - the quality of the Christy's doesn't even come close to touching the felt quality of even the cheapest, lowest rung vintage hat I own.

And I've gone to the fancy-pants hat stores here in AZ and looked at their $500 hats...not even close to anything vintage I've purchased on eBay for $35.

Now on the other hand...I have a Christy's and love it. It looks like the screen hat, in terms of color (at least in the two middle films).

But as I've mentioned...I own close to 50 hats. If it's raining, I'll wear something else! The Christy's seems to have aged OK for me, but I haven't put it through all that much.

If all my hats were suitable for the same purpose...why would I need 50 of them?

The Christy's is my INDY hat (at least, until my AB arrives or the Magnoli HJ I just picked up!). But it's my Indy dress hat. My Akubra Fed Deluxe is my rugged Indy hat.

If I were smart enough to only own one hat (well, my wife would think it was smart, anyway), it'd probably be vintage. Haven't handled an AB yet but I know that Fedora knows vintage felt, and I believe his hats are probably made to a similar standard. So if I were only going to own one NEW hat, it would be an AB, because I know it would last (and look good well into its old age...like a vintage hat).

Thank heavens it's never come to that...

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:56 pm

Erri wrote:Steve, pardon moi, I think you have been making your point very clear for a long time. I'm sure everyone has understood by now. It appears that this thread is for appreciators of cheap stuff only, I don't understand why are you still attracted by posting your fairly-well-argumented opinion in such a thread. I thought the point of quality has been already well covered about these hats

Please don't chase him away.