REALLY need your help for alternative to goat Raiders

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:51 am

I've ordered a Wested but due to problems getting / and then getting poor quality skins there is still no goat to do it. I only plan on getting one jacket, POSSIBLY another in the future, but not certain, and if I did it would be from a different film (LC most likely).

If getting just one then I wanted the Raiders jacket. Again as I'm only getting one I wanted goat as it should 'wear' / 'last' the best, while still having a similar drape to the Lamb. Now if the goat does not turn up, or is still of an unnaceptable quality, then what would you suggest as the next best alternative? I want it to be tough but still close to lamb in areas like the drape. If I had a LC jacket I'ld most likely get it in horse, however would this be too 'ridgid' for a Raiders? Also is it the same deal for Cow? Would a 'thinner' horse / cow be close? If so which one is 'best'?

In summary, I like the goat for its drape, strength, water repellancy or more acurately its combination of all of them. What, of the others, is closest? If I wait for the goat it 'may' be a long wait, it all depends on the availability, quality and ability of the tanners to get it here. Its the indeterminate timescale which is getting to me. This is NOT Peters fault, he's been very open and helpfull.

Ladies and gentleman, PLEASE give me the benefit of your collective experience.

Browncoat · Post by **Browncoat** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:58 am

Are you going strictly custom/UK made? If not, you should be able to order a goat.

It is my understanding that the OTR specials are outsourced so Wested should have the OTR washed and regular goats onhand, made and ready to ship.

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:43 am

Its a custom. Their last lot of washed goat had 'bone marks' and no 'normal' goat came through. Now finally it has but is not of sufficient quality to be used (and the washed goat is either too small or of similar 'bad' quality). Obviously awaiting another shipmaent, but it takes ages to come through from Italy, I believe.

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:08 am

I was under the impression that Wested was only out of washed goat, but had regular goat in stock. And I've been reading most of these posts.

SD

MACHONE · Post by **MACHONE** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:45 am

Do a seach on some of the posts on the Wested Horsehide. I can not reccommend it enough for 'last/wear'. I got my Horsehide last spring and have been wearing it all winter. It's breaking in well and is great in all weather, including wet.
-Ben

Browncoat · Post by **Browncoat** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:49 am

Ah I see so you do want a custom. Honestly, if I were you I would wait a couple weeks and see how things develop if you really want the goat.

You may not be satisfied with your second choice of leather and may end up ordering the goat later on.

Waiting two or three weeks for the goat to come in could save you $$$ from the want of buying another jacket because the first wasn't the leather you actually desired.

Plus, you never know. Wested might just come out with their own version of the shrunken lamb or textured goat, etc. by then....something that might catch your attention.

I wonder if there is such a hide as "shrunken" goat?

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:55 am

Do we actually know that Peter's out of regular goat? If so, judging from the last time he ran out, the wait was 6 months or longer until he was able to source another good supply.

SD

Browncoat · Post by **Browncoat** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:58 am

You know that is very true. I don't recall Wested being out of the db goat or auth goat. Its the washed goat that seems to have been shipped with the flaws.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:23 pm

Just wait... If you absolutely have to order now, go with either Novapelle or Horse, but request the thinnest horse Pete has... OR check to see if Pete has any of the lambtouch - a very thin cowhide.

my2cents

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:45 pm

I concur on the NP and horse, I really don't like the lambtouch cow.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:25 pm

Kt Templar wrote: I really don't like the lambtouch cow.

Actually, it's one of my favorites.

;-)

That's what I'm wearing in this old QM photo of me standing next to Lee Keppler.

http://www.minnesotajones.com/Lee%20&%2 ... on%202.jpg

Regards! Michaelson

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:27 pm

KT

What is your take on the lambtouch?

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:07 pm

I remember the Lambtouch to be known as the "trashbag" leather as that is what it seemed to resemble a lot.

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:14 pm

Unfortunately the soft goat ran out before Christmas. Only 'small' skins left, too small for me! The washed goat was flawed before Christmas too. The new delivery was not acceptable either. May have more news tomorrow. However it never hurts to have a back up plan right?

I just want the benefit of your experience / knowledge so if needed I can make an informed choice. How does the horse compare for texture (against the goat)? I ordered at the start of December.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:15 pm

coronado3 wrote:KT

What is your take on the lambtouch?

Michealson that looks great.

The stuff I have seen is too thin for my taste, thinner than the 'too thin lamb' otrs from mid last year.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:21 pm

Understood, but for those of us who have purchased and owned jackets made from this material over the years have been VERY satisfied with the results.

Maybe his current stock/supplier isn't meeting past quality, if what you're seeing now is different that what I've shown with my pictured jacket. Have you personally handled any jackets made from the material, or just seen and handled the hide? It could be how it reacts after being made into a garment that makes it 'work'. I don't know. Mine have always been great. Check out the drape in that photo!

Next time you talk to Peter, would you mind asking?

Regards! Michaelson

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:30 pm

Agreed.

As for the horse, it starts off with a very regular, very small grain, if you treat it with hot water you can sometime get some nice grain to pop up.

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:59 pm

Kt Templar wrote:Agreed.

As for the horse, it starts off with a very regular, very small grain, if you treat it with hot water you can sometime get some nice grain to pop up.

I'm loving my new HH. Even with cold water you can get some nice grain to pop up (and not risk shrinkage). It's quite astounding. My horsehide is thicker, and is fine. Drapes well enough that you can notice the inside pocket slits from the outside when it's zipped up. Reminds me a lot of my old G&B goat jacket, but without the pebbly texture.

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:27 pm

Well the HH looks really nice, however without a side by side comparison I'm still not sure. Essentially what are the real differences between HH and goat? I mean if Holts jacket had been HH how would it have 'effected' it?

What are the 'tells' for HH, as opposed to goat?

RaiderZee · Post by **RaiderZee** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:50 pm

Wested has OTR Special ROLA Goat in stock. I ordered one Monday and it's en route.

RaiderZee

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:36 pm

RaiderZee wrote:Wested has OTR Special ROLA Goat in stock. I ordered one Monday and it's en route.

RaiderZee

Yeah I know. However if you want / need a custom then there is a problem, at the moment (so to speak).

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:38 pm

I thought Holt's jacket WAS horsehide

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:40 pm

Ah, my mistake - it's goat.

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:42 pm

whiskyman wrote:I thought Holt's jacket WAS horsehide

I'm sure it's 'soft goat'

Post by **Holt** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:49 pm

yeah, soft goat.

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:26 pm

I've read your waiting for a custom are they out of the regular otr goats too. I have that and I love it. I wear mine daily and it's great.So point of the thread it's a good choise if you really cannot wait.

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:41 pm

Weeks ago, Gemma told me that they would have goat in. They didn't'....then last week she said they would for surely have it in this weekend! I haven't heard an update since, but I hope it truly will be in this weekend as I ordered goat myself.

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:06 pm

UPDATE

Well Peter has standard goat coming in in 10 days time. So if any of you are waiting, that's the score. However here is my dilema. I've been looking at some HH Raiders jackets and they look REALLY nice. I ordered goat as I want it to be tough and last (as I really only plan to get one Raisers jacket)

Horse is tough too, it is also heavier although that doesn't bother me. It has less of a grain, but I'm not sure if that should be an issue or not. Old like it close to SA lamb, but tougher. I thought I knew what i wanted, but now I'm not so sure. Old get the HH quicker to, although I'm trying to not let that influence me.

Can anyone point me in the way to go? What would you do? PLEASE let me know.

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:15 pm

Man, I'm a BIG fan of horse. Plus I love the look (grain if you want to call it that) of it as it breaks in.

serrecuir · Post by **serrecuir** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:16 pm

Goat is the way to go! I always believe that you should go with your first choice. If goat was what you originally wanted, stick with it.

Kind regards,
Craig

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:27 pm

There isn't anything wrong with goat and like the man said.... If that's your first choice, go with it.

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:59 pm

Thanks guys, hopefully more will chime in. My concern is that I may have made the 'wrong' choice to start with. Which is the closest to lamb in terms of drape and grain. I understand they are almost equal in terms of strength, water replancy and resisting scuffs. With maybe goat edging it. Am I right?

serrecuir · Post by **serrecuir** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:41 pm

Raider Of The Lost Ark wrote:Thanks guys, hopefully more will chime in. My concern is that I may have made the 'wrong' choice to start with. Which is the closest to lamb in terms of drape and grain. I understand they are almost equal in terms of strength, water replancy and resisting scuffs. With maybe goat edging it. Am I right?

Raider,

I don't think you've made a 'wrong' choice by ANY means. All of Wested's hides make great jackets. IMO, the goat is the closest to the lamb in terms of drape and grain. Goat is more durable than the lamb, even more durable than the HH, I believe.

But I would also throw in a word of caution about overthinking and second-guessing yourself. You are certainly wise to explore your options and get feedback from members here, as we've owned and critiqued every jacket characteristic to come out of Wested. God knows I've read through a thousand jacket threads about the hides and SA specs and Platon's pockets and Holt's collar. But that information can also cause a severe overload if you're on the fence.

;-)

My best advice would be to create a list of what you MUST have in your jacket and the conditions in which you'll be wearing it. In reading through these threads, you'll find that most of us have owned several jackets over the years, in the search for THE jacket. We all have our favorite hides and desired specs. Every jacket looks different on every body, and what's good for one may not be good for others. Don't be afraid to take the plunge with the goat Wested. This is a great time to be a part of this hobby. There are more choices now than ever. I think when I bought my first Wested, lambskin and cow were the only hides available. Good luck with your purchase, and make sure to post pics here of your jacket when it arrives.

Kind regards,
Craig

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:18 pm

thanks Craig. I real like I've finished my exam, and found I've still got time. Now I'm reviewing my papaer and am considering changing a few answers. I appreciate the danger in doing this. If it had turned up when expected I'm sure old have been very happy and thought no more about it.

I'm not sure how to really evaluate my needs. I want a Raiders jacket that I plan to 'live' in. So all weathers. I'll also wear it as part of a costume. I hope the goat won't bar me from membership of Indys 501st

I also want it to stand up to wear and tear. Hence thinking of goat over lamb. Problem is I look at the picture posted of HH jackets and Holts soft goat and think Wow I want one like that! I appreciate though their exact jackets would look very different on me. It's all so difficult and I totally understand why folks have more than one

I think I'll stick with the goat, unless the new batch turns up with problems. Then I may have to change, but then again.....

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:36 pm

Lamb is a fantastically soft and comfortable leather.

BUT...

If you want something that will take some beating look towards the horse goat and even the NP.

Horse generally is thicker than the goat. Weight for weight goat is stronger than horse. The novapelle is lighter than horse, probably heavier than goat and has a worn in look right off the starting line and just keeps piling on the character.

The goat drapes closest to the lamb, people have complained that the normal goat takes forever to age on it's own, hence the washed goat which looks worn in right from the start.

Post by **Holt** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:30 pm

I can tell you the soft goat feels incredible soft but yet very strong,if you get it you will know that you are wearing a very drapy jacket that you can punish with everything.the goat is a all year around jacket.I have seen goatskin jacket that are over 30 years old and look and feel better then ever.pluss they look almost new

you can allways get another jacket later in a different hide,cause I know you will sometime down the road,we all do. that is as certain like a kid wanting candy.

If I got a dollar everytime someone says this will be my last jacket,then I would be Donald Trump today. ;-)

look at the soft goat.look how it drapes like lamb.if this is not Indy then I dont know...

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:44 pm

Thanks Holt. While I do adept the possibilty of another jacket in the future ( my other half won't like it). I'd like it to be a different film I'm thinking a HH LC (was that also lamb in the film?). Is HH the best for LC?

I'd just rather get the one for the film(s) I chose. I suppose that's why I'm suddenly getting 'windy'

Post by **Holt** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:49 pm

you see! I like your other half ;-)

yes the HH is a very good choice for the LC. the original jackets are said to be made out of Lamb from the maker himself.but I will risk my neck saying that at least one or 2 are made from cowhide.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:32 pm

IF you like goat and you like the raiders jackets, why not just go with G&B? I know it is more money, but it is tough as nails.

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:50 pm

You mean within 10 days they will have goat or anytime within the next 10 days? Either what, I don't think I'd trust them. They told me a while back they would have it, then they said this weekend, and now 10 more days possibly?

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:12 pm

Goat shipments are really out of Wested's hands. I mean, the second-to-last batch of goat was quite a bit thicker than the last batch (and a fine hide too, in St. Dumas's opinion). And when Peter ran out, we weren't even sure he'd ever even offer goat again. When he finally managed to source a goat hide he liked, it was something like 6-8 months later. So if the word you're getting is that Wested is likely to get another batch of goat skins in a mere four weeks after they ran out, that's something to be thankful for.

SD

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:25 pm

I'll agree that its out of their hands. But telling a customer to sit tight because goat will be in and then its not...then do the same thing again and then possibly again! I don't care if it's out of their hands or not, they still told me something that wasn't correct. They need to get their information correct.

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:25 pm

WhipDude wrote:You mean within 10 days they will have goat or anytime within the next 10 days? Either what, I don't think I'd trust them. They told me a while back they would have it, then they said this weekend, and now 10 more days possibly?

It's being flown in in 10 days time. They had a delivery this week, probably the one they told you about. However Peter said it was of very poor quality and would not accept it. They have now got more skins and I assume it takes the time to rocess it. He will get enough to do all current orders. Even more will then arrive a week after that. He's been very open and fair I'll stick with it.

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:22 pm

Now that's news I like. That puts a different perspective on things. Now that I have the full story..... I think I'll wait it out for a while longer and see.

serrecuir · Post by **serrecuir** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:40 pm

From my experience, Peter has a very high standard for the skins he uses for his jackets - as he should. I certainly don't fault him for rejecting certain batches that are substandard. It results in a much higher quality product that we get to enjoy, on our very backs. If that means waiting a bit longer, I'm happy to stand in line.

Kind regards,
Craig

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:33 pm

I agree with all of those and I want the highest quality goat too! I'm just saying that if they told me that they would be be getting goat in when they told me the few times, I would have expected it instead of misleading information. Otherwise if they gave me a general idea of when it could arrive but tell me that they aren't 100% I would have known and either waited or possibly switched hides.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:27 pm

I'm sure Wested is likely dealing with the same issue, between being told of expected dates that aren't met, and then receiving hides that are not acceptable.

Raider Of The Lost Ark · Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:19 am

Sorry was a bit rushed on my last post. Peter has been told things by the supply company that never happened. The tanners closed down over christmas and did not re open untill January. He was told his order was loaded and would be with him by the end of the week (09/01/09) it wasn't. Then he was told it would be leaving the start of the next week, it didn't. Later he was told it was on its way again, it did arrive but much later than expected (possibly more drop offs before England, who knows). The quality however was not acceptable.

I'm sure they were only saying what they had been led to believe. It IS frustrating, but not their fault. Fingers crossed this next delivery will be as perfect as perfect can be.

Browncoat · Post by **Browncoat** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:13 am

It's news like this that would make me switch from goat to horsehide in a heartbeat. I mean if the tannery cannot even get the hides colored correctly and unmarked what else about the goat hides are they willing to cut corners just to process orders?

Might end up with a goatskin jacket that looks the part superficially but ends up rotting away later down the line.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:31 am

Looking at the way goathides seem to differ during the year, ie. smaller at certain times than others. Makes the theory that the countries where the goatskins come from have a seasonal trend for the age at which the animals are slaughtered.

It would appear that summer is the better time, for our needs, to order goat than winter. Vendors take note and stock up!

BTW, there is a programme on TV here called 'Kill it. Cook it, Eat it", seeing kid goats, being slaughtered was pretty galling.

It makes me respect my food and appreciate the leather that comes from it a lot more.