Revenge of the Flying Squirrel

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:33 am

Guys, Holt made an interesting discovery in another thread regarding the infamous and annoying 'flying squirrel effect'.
For those not familiar with the term, it describes the rather amusing appearance some of our jackets take on when they are zipped up and our arms are raised. Under each arm, fabulous 'wings' appear, allowing us to glide from tree to tree.
Seriously though, check the other thread for pics; the clearly identify the problem.
I've had three Wested Last Crusade jackets, and they have all had this problem. I've since sold two. My Temple of Doom jacket did not have it. That jacket looked and fitted just fine.
Holts pics show an OTR jacket and a custom jacket.
OTR looks fantastic, and has almost no flying squirrel. The custom looks plain silly zipped with the arms raised. My jackets looked the same.
Great with your arms at your side; but raise them up with the jacket zipped and you're ready for takeoff. It restricts arm movement too, I found.
What are your thoughts on this? Can other owners of both OTR jackets and customs do a comparison? Has this been a problem forever, or only with Wested's newest jackets?
And other manufacturers, do their jackets have a similar problem?
I'll continue to refer to it as a problem by the way; I can't imagine anyone liking the look.
I had thought it was an inherent characteristic of the design, but Holt's pictures show this is not so. It's all in the cut, it would seem.
How to fix it? Higher armoles? Smaller armholes? I don't know, but I'd love to know how, as I won't consider ordering another until I could be assured that I'd be getting a jacket without this problem.

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:39 am

And I just ordered another OTR before seeing the flying squirrel debate. I had heard of it, but never put together that it was the custom jobs that had the flying squirrel funk going on. I guess I never thought or assumed it would not be the more expensive wested offering that was exhibiting that "phenomenon". I think I'll post a shot of me stretched out horizontal with arms extended in simulated flying mode with my squirrel jacket.

Cheers.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:26 am

IIRC the 'ROLA' version that Peter made about 2 years ago had smaller armholes to combat the issue. For some it feels too tight under the armpits for comfort, but it does remove any excess leather.

Is you jacket a "Rola' or a "Raiders' pattern, the 'Raiders' had been adjusted to allow for larger frames.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:29 am

I'd considered a ROLA, KT, as I've been informed in the past that they have smaller higher armholes. But then I realised I'd probably get odd sized pockets are a funny collar or some such which would be as off-putting as an incorrectly fitted jacket.
I just wish the custom jackets didn't have this issue...

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:39 am

Kevin Anderson wrote:I'd considered a ROLA, KT, as I've been informed in the past that they have smaller higher armholes. But then I realised I'd probably get odd sized pockets are a funny collar or some such which would be as off-putting as an incorrectly fitted jacket.
I just wish the custom jackets didn't have this issue...

It's not a custom issue and people shouldn't make such a blanket statement about them.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:44 am

Alright then, I wish MY three custom jackets didn't have this issue.
It shouldn't be an issue, period. If these jackets don't have to look 'squirrely', why do they?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:55 am

Are you LC's (the new CS inspired ones?) if so they are a totally different pattern to both the Raiders and the ROLA. I've not noticed if mine has a tendency to do that... I will take a look.

I do know that I have to 'shrug' it up when taking stuff out of the shopping trolley in the supermarket to get room in the arms to stretch down, something that I don't have to do with my UK made Raiders, but I thought that was down to the CS being a thicker leather. No harm no foul but it's just a feature of that jacket to me, same thing happens to me when I'm wearing a suit jacket.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:55 am

And I wonder how Wested would explain Holt's comparision pics, KT?
I mean, Holt is someone who knows how to order a jacket, and that is what he received? What is the difference in the cut that makes that custom jacket do that? It's obviously not meant to look like that.
I'd be delighted if all my jackets looked like that OTR though.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:06 am

Kevin Anderson wrote:And I wonder how Wested would explain Holt's comparision pics, KT?
I mean, Holt is someone who knows how to order a jacket, and that is what he received? What is the difference in the cut that makes that custom jacket do that? It's obviously not meant to look like that.
I'd be delighted if all my jackets looked like that OTR though.

This is kinda old ground. AFIK The 'Raiders' jacket has had a bit more leather added to the chest and under armpit area over the years. To be perfectly blunt it's because fatter fans have needed the extra wiggle room under the armpit.

Holt's 'squirrel' pic also has the straps done up a bit too tight exaggerating the effect. The Rola OTR in 44 should have a couple of inches less chest room than the Raiders custom 44, and it's showing that.

Eric has also stated that the LC pattern (in the film0 had something of this effect due to the bigger armholes, the jacket's just not as snug.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:15 am

Well, It'll be interesting to see what others say about this. Is it widespread? How many custom Wested's have this problem?
Maybe just Holt's and mine? Although, yes, mine are LC's, but I don't remember asking for wings when I ordered them. I don't think the cut of the LC is different enough from the Raiders film jacket to make me accept that the wings are part of the design. Zipped up, all three of my LC's look just like Holt's custom Raiders. Sorry to keep throwing your name around Holt, it's just that you pictures so excellently illustrate what I'm talking about.
If I wasn't tired of ordering these jackets and being disappointed eventually every time, I'd love to try a ROLA OTR. If it looks like Holts, I'd be happy.

RaiderZee · Post by **RaiderZee** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:20 am

Howdy,

Sorry for my ignorance, but KT, are you saying that the ROLA (i.e. 80s fit) custom doesn't have the FS problem as much as the Raiders (i.e. larger fit) custom?

RaiderZee

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:27 am

RaiderZee wrote:Howdy,

Sorry for my ignorance, but KT, are you saying that the ROLA (i.e. 80s fit) custom doesn't have the FS problem as much as the Raiders (i.e. larger fit) custom?

RaiderZee

The Rola is cut tighter so will not have the effect. I am not saying the standard pattern definitely does do it as on some people it doesn't.

Take a look at this jacket it's an older made in the the UK jacket, the armholes are high and small, it also has gussets. ZERO squirrel.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:04 am

That's a good pic, KT. I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of this, nothing more. I'm not causing trouble for no reason.
I just wouldn't order another jacket from Wested until I knew for certain I could get one with the FS effect, be that as a result of higher armholes or whatever. A jacket that looks good but is restrictive is useless in my opinion, except to hang on the wall perhaps.
Once I have a few answers, I may go for it, and fingers crossed I end up with something more like Holt's OTR.
And yes, I'm aware in another thread I'd finished with Indy jackets, but I've sold a few since then so I can start over!

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:58 am

Another question KT; and I know I should ask Peter, but I'll ask here first.
If one is to order an OTR jacket, a ROLA lamb for example, are they stored at Wested? Is Peter able to check it before it's sent? I'd like to ask him to find one with the best looking pockets and other details.
Do you think such a thing could be done, or are they simply grabed off the rack and shipped?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:58 am

They are dispatched from the barn, I'm sure if you ask him he will look one over for you. They do seem pretty consistent.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:33 am

Thanks KT. Whiskywan's washed goat ROLA in his thread looks spot on. If I could get one of those, I'll be happy. Might even place an order tonight.

Post by **Holt** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:45 am

KT, the straps on the UK jacket are quite loose,I should know.I had it on.its an 80's cut with the tapered wasit.but a HUGE chest.

the photos of the 2 together show on of the rack 44 REGULAR raiders jacket and the one to the right shows an 44 UK made 80's cut.

in my head an 80's cut should be a slimmer fit,not only slimmer in the lower torso,but all around. if they only taper the wasit and leave everything else as it is(full cut) the jacket will get a funny look.and it does,its called the flying squirrel.

what aslo is incredidle funny is that,and this may be one of the reasons why it is alittle bigger...

the 80's cut UK jacket chest measures 25'' armpit to armpit.it should be at least 24'' ,if not slimmer,23.5'' like the special offer rolas.which peter calls an 80's cut.and he should,casue that in my head is an 80's cut,becasue it is slimmer all around.

the of the rack 44 regular has the armpit to armpit of 24'' which is perfect for a regualr full cut.

the 44 UK made jacket is not for a person with a 44 chest.it will be to big.the 44 OTR regular IS for a person with a 44 chest.I have ALLWAYS had the perfect fit with the OTR jacket.I have yet to discover a perfect fit with the 44 UK made jackets.funny aint it.it should not be any problem.they should fit the same...

Post by **Holt** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:47 am

Kt Templar wrote:

Take a look at this jacket it's an older made in the the UK jacket, the armholes are high and small, it also has gussets. ZERO squirrel.

PERFECT!

now why can not ALL the UK made jackets look like this.higher armholes and slimmer body all around.

why do we have to buy of the rack special rolas offer to get this look.take a look at my specail rola offer.I cant see any difference between your UK made and my Indian made. why are they different today???

Indiana Blooze · Post by **Indiana Blooze** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:59 pm

Holt,
Is the flying squirrll jacket your "SA Holt Spec" jacket?

Post by **Holt** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:57 pm

no it is not.that picture of that jacket is from way back.before I got the ''Holt'' jacket.

Don't Call Me Junior! · Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:24 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:no it is not.that picture of that jacket is from way back.before I got the ''Holt'' jacket.

"The Holt Jacket". Coming from it's architect that's got a really good ring to it...

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:47 am

For what it's worth, I received my OTR ROLA Washed Goat today, and I can happily say it's got very minimal squirrely stuff going on.
The smaller armoles that don't go halfway down to the the hem make all the difference.
Otherwise the jacket was not to my liking, so I've sent it back.
It was not slim fitting or tapered.
It arrived in only 5 days though, so that was fantastic. And the washed goat is the nicest leather for an Indy jacket I've seen.