Has anyone tried Todd's deluxe whips???

[Puppetboy]

I think it's wonderful that folks who are not into whipcracking but who do want a decent costume prop have you to turn to.

I think those of you who are into whipcracking would be very surprised with these. I know there will always be the purists who narrowly define a "real" whip as a double belly kangaroo whip, and nothing else qualifies. As David Morgan states in his book, there are many methods of core constuction from rawhide to rope to twisted paper. And Mark Allen in his "Art of Whipcracking" video demonstrates how he can perform tons of whipcracking tricks with his $99 cheapo 4 plait cowhide whip.

We spent a full year experimenting with urethane products, formulas and casting/curing methods to come up with a core that retains the handling of a leather core, while exceeding them in power. Weight is very similar, but the rubber is far more dense.

I personally have seen a whipcracking pro pick up one of these whips and run through several routines with it, and tell me it's one of the best whips he's cracked. Of course, his is just one opinion.

I've sold around 125 of these whips last year to costumers and whipcrackers alike (I guess only a few are members of this board) and only one has come back. That particular customer hadn't read our website very carefully and he was expecting a Terry Jacka for $199. Every other customer has been satisfied with his purchase. Of course, we offer a money back guarantee if you aren't satisfied with it. Just return it in original condition - don't rip it up and then send it back.

In summary, my points are twain: don't be quick to judge a new idea, and secondly, I absoluetly stand behind these whips in performance and durability. The only shortcoming is that the finish is not up to the standards of the fine craftsmanship of some of the amazing whipmakers out there. Until I have testimony from experienced whipcrackers out there to the contrary, I will continue to stand behind these as great cracking, durable whips.

Todd

[rjallen70]

So why not put this to rest once and for all.
Send a tester to Bullwhip Borton, Adam Winrich, Canasta, or any one of a dozen other exceptional crackers on this site. Your $12 investment for shipping both ways would yield you hundreds in return if it is as you say.
Ron

[Puppetboy]

I would gladly do that under three conditions: the testers not be vendors, the testers return the whip, and that the testers forward the whip to each other when they are done. You pick the testers and tell me who to send it to first.

Todd

[rjallen70]

I would say that Bullwhip Borton would be best, as he is a mod here, and is not a vendor, and garners the most respect & familiarity. Any other testers would probably be over-kill and unnecessary.
I have directed him to this thread.
Ron

[WhipDude]

I would love to try this out and write a review on it. I'm sure Borton would give it a spin as well because he likes trying new stuff. I can't speak for Adam or Canasta as they are constantly traveling and on the move. They may like to try it but it could end up in their possession for a long period of time, but don't quote me on that.

But as all of us live in areas with lots of snow, it may be rather difficult. Borton, Canasta, Winrich and I all live in areas with lots of snow right now. Unless these are like nylons then great.

Sorry to mention myself, might seem rather rude but I am a whip and Indy enthusiast and have experience under my belt and have tried a very wide range of whips.

I'd suggest sending it to 1 whip maker as well?

It would be nice if this was a whip for costumers who just went a simple nice working whip.

[rjallen70]

As far as a whip maker...how about cracker? He doesn't vend.

[kooniu]

Puppetboy, have you any video with your whips? mayby is possible to see how your whip cracking

[Puppetboy]

Puppetboy, have you any video with your whips? mayby is possible to see how your whip cracking

I've thought about it. I'm afraid seeing me crack a whip wouldn't be all that exciting - not like Adam Winrich's videos!

A few more thoughts -
1. definitely more than one tester - I don't want opinions here based on one person's tastes and preferences. I'm sure you understand.
2. Testers who are experienced with more than just traditional Indy whips.
3. I would appreciate reviews that are more than just "It's great" or "It's a piece of @#$%". Please evaluate it on a more balanced scale like a 1-10.
4. Obviously, these testers would be comparing it with other whips (it's all relative, after all) so testers experience with the broadest range of whips would be preferred.
5. Please compare the strengths and weaknesses compared with other whips of varying kinds - from the worst to the best whips generally sold as working whips.
5. Let's define the criteria for the test. After all, what are you trying to measure? Loudness? Speed? Ease? Accuracy? What?
6. Why not invite other vendors to submit their work to the same scrutiny? Why just judge mine? After all, the general perception of the offerings from the various vendors is usually based on testimonials like "this is my first whip, but it's great!" Let's get some experts to weigh in.

Todd

[WhipDude]

Canuck Digger isn't a vendor and his whips look pretty good. He lives in Canada however.

Looks like we should get it going. I'd be up for it as long as Puppetboy is ok with it. And that's assuming that they can be used on snow or wet grass.

I agree with what you want for reviewing the whip. If you want to see the type of review I've done in the past, check this thread here..
viewtopic.php?t=32240&highlight=simon+stock

Of course I can go more in-depth with the information in a review you're looking for.

I've handled a variety of Strains, Martin, Winrich, Nolan, Morgan, EC, Murphy and some others. Not all of those were mine but I've tired them multiple times and can tell you what I thought of them. As far as skills, I'm past using just a single whip. I'm working on lots of intricate 2 handed stuff with a pair of 5 foot stocks. You can also count on me being honest and I don't care to be overly polite (but with tact.)

Make sure Bullwhip Borton see's this thread. He's been into it since he was a young'in and has a variety of non-Indy whips as well as owning many Indy whips to.

[rjallen70]

Great ideas Todd...

We have one volunteer in Whip dude, I think he meets the qualifications well Hopefully he can chime in.
How about 2 more...??

[rjallen70]

I have also contacted Robby of Whip Basics fame, as a potential tester.
I am certain the videos from him will be tops.
Ron
So...
WhipDude...volunteered
Dan BullwhipBorton (unconfirmed)
and Whip basics "Robert Amper" to round it out. (unconfirmed)

[kooniu]

Comparing of product of different executive is always interesting for potential clients.

I compared nylon from Steve and roo from Mick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJExapdp-kE

[scavoj]

It would be nice if this was a whip for costumers who just went a simple nice working whip.

I've purchased many items from Todd and all are of very high quality...including the Deluxe Bullwhip. I purchased it as a costume piece that I could learn on. I've gone through Anthony Delongis' Whip Master video on YouTube and copied his moves using Todd's whip with great success. I've had the whip since October of 08 and have practiced with it about an hour or so a week. I have a roo whip from Paul Nolan on order (not an indy) so once that comes in, I'll be using the Todd's whip as mainly a costume piece with an ocasional crack. But in my opinion, Todd's whip is a hard hitting whip that cracks like a .22 and an excellent whip to learn on. While I don't have a roo whip yet to compare it too, as a novice I am completely satisfied.

Thanks, Todd.

Joe Scavo

Joe

[Puppetboy]

Thanks for the kind words, Joe. I'm glad you like it.

I'll go a step better - after the whip goes through a few experts (and it sounds like we have some excellent ones here) I'll open it up to anyone who wants to try it. Please, no torture tests. Treat it as if it were your own whip, please. And please grass or carpet. Everyone knows what hard surfaces do to a whip. If a list can be organized, and you'all can communicate with each other to pass it along, I'll let everyone have a "crack" at it.

Todd

[WhipDude]

I'm going to have to pass then. Since its snowing constantly and the grass is always wet around these times of month, I'd rather not destroy it. I just realized that it is indeed leather. I would like to however, sometime in the spring or summer when it's nicer. But that's of course if you want to wait.

[LemonLauren]

I think it's a great idea to pass one of these new budget-style whips around to experienced and well-rounded whipcrackers! Professional whipcrackers across the US already own and in their shows constantly use whips from Morgan, Steve Huntress, Joe Strain, MidWestWhips, several well-known Australian whipmakers, Jacka, etc. - and these whips are also made using materials and techniques passed down, proven, and fine-tuned through generations of whipmakers across decades, sometimes even centuries. Although of course I (and many others it seems) am honestly wary of your new idea for core material, it is very intriguing for use in budget whips! Truly, hats off to you for such creativity and ingenuity, and the guts to follow through with the idea, and then also to let some experienced whipcrakers test it out.

People who work with whips all the time as their profession I believe would be the best "testers" for you. It's people like Chris Camp (Canasta), Adam Winrich, and some full-time whipmakers who will be able to feel (and describe) the subtle differences in handling. Chris and Adam have handled scores of whips - good, bad, great, budget, fancy, cowhide, roo hide, nylon, and so on. If I were you, I would go out of my way to convince these two to help out in the review process, as there are few people (if any) in the US who use whips better or more often than these two. Bullwhip Borton would also be an excellent choice, since he has handled such a variety of whips and also is much better than average with his whipcracking abilities.

Even though Paul and I are vendors, we are not at all your competition (assuming that's your concern with vendors?), so I'd also like to throw our names into the hat if you're willing. At this time, we don't really have any budget whips to offer that we make, and so we are constantly needing to direct customers with inquiries about budget whips to a good source (and have done so often). Both of us would happily include your whips in our recommended budget whips shortlist if we had the chance to test one and felt confident about its durability and handling. Both of us, though Paul even moreso than me, have handled literally thousands of whips of all types, and are well beyond a beginners level with cracking whips. Add to this we know the insides of whips as well as we know the outsides and how both relate to how each individual whip handles, and I honestly think that between the two of us, our review(s) would be useful for yourself and anyone who is looking into a budget whip.

Anyways, I just want to say again how I think it's great that you want to run this new core design through some additional professional and public trials. Getting some very experienced folks to test it at the beginning will give us all a good idea on how it handles, and then as more and more people with varying styles and skill levels handle it, we'll be able to better judge its durability over the long haul. And like I said before, this new core material choice was a truly creative and brave thing to try out, and Paul and I are both rooting for it to turn out to be a great new idea in the realm of budget whips.

Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com

[hollywood1340]

Lauren, all good points! I'll throw my hat (Fedora of course) into this. I offer an indoor arena year round so weather is not a problem in testing. If I can offer my students something of quality , I'm willing to shake paradigms to do so Again I am pleased so see a company willing to not only put it's money where it's mouth is, but listen to it's customers.

[IndyWhips]

Just to play devils advocate

If you have confidence in your product why on earth would you even consider sending it off to someone to review it for you...If you send a brand new whip off on the rounds for various people to review it and crack it all you'll get back if you get it back at all is a second hand whip, can't think why you'd even consider that

I'd say stick to your guns and keep going forwards as you are, if your product is good, if it's priced fairly and if you provide good customer service (which it would appear you do) then eventually your whip will find it's way onto the quality budget whip list in the same way the budget whips on that list already got their place there.....

Tell them your prices are on your site and your waiting list is *X* long.....thats what I'd do

My very best wishes

Tony

[Bernardodc]

I think all are good ideas, but in my opinion, we are missing an important point: we already know that Todd's Deluxe whips crack (and based on a few reviews they actually crack well). If a sample whip is sent to someone like Chris Camp (Canasta) who's really skilled and has handled hundreds of whips, he might be able to provide a more accurate description of how it handles, its balance, etc. However, since the basic difference between other high end whips and Todd's Deluxe whip is the polyurethane core, we want to know how it holds up to extended use. We already know it's dense, and that it has the same weight as an all-leather core. We know the whip cracks. We need to know its durability. Does it break over time? how about stretch? One of the great benefits of a braided belly is that it holds it shape longer than say a core made of strips of leather. How the polyurethane core compares?

To get the answer, we need a tester with experience (and time) that uses the whip heavily and extensively, so that in a few months time we can simulate a few years of regular use. Someone like Chris Camp (who performs all over the States and cracks whips for a living) KNOWS what works and what doesn't.

We should not forget that even though this Deluxe whip current price is within the budget level ($200), Todd offers it on his website as an alternative to high end whips when he says "If you have done any shopping at all, you know that most whip makers charge 400+ for an 8' 12 plait bullwhip."

So if we pay $400 to $500 for an all-leather plaited belly kangaroo from any maker WE KNOW it will last many years with proper care and common sense when using it. How about Todd's offering? Is it going to last a similar amount of time? What's the durability of a goat hide overlay compared to a kangaroo one? They both are thin leathers, and the kangaroo has the edge in tensile strength.

A guy from Switzerland contacted a while ago saying he needed a new whip, since he had gotten Todd's deluxe whip, and the whip had broken at the handle-core junction (the transition zone) after a little use. He said he needed a real whip, made out of leather in the conventional and proven methods. Now, I don't know if that story is true or not, as I haven't seen the whip in person or any photos, but it illustrates the point of the durability issue in Todd' offering.

Lastly, I think Todd has a point when he mentions that another whipmaker should not be the tester. Those of us whipmakers do have an opinion about other whipmakers' whips. But, I think it wouldn't be ethical to publicly review someone else's work. As a whipmaker, I have found that it is better to keep my opinion to myself to avoid trouble.

Just my 0.8 cents to the discussion.

Regards,

Bernardo
www.delcarpiowhips.com

[WhipDude]

I'm not against Chris trying the whip out at all as I would trust what he has to say. But honestly, can you expect Chris to give a review when he hates to type on the computer? His posts show it and the man has said it himself. Not to mention, he's extremely busy and the states that he travels around most commonly all have snow right now. I honestly think it would be best to hold off until the next season to give it a go.

Until then, I still say Bullwhip Borton is our best shot. He's got many whips and has dealt with other whips. He can handle a whip super well and is a fountain of technical information and has always been one to give honest reviews of other peoples work.

And so far, we only know of 2 sources who complained about the whip. 1 kid supposedly swung on it, and the other person was some random guy. Let's face it, majority of whip crackers are hard on their stuff and can't finesse it like the handful of us around here. So I think we should hold off until somebody reviews it. But another thing to note is, I would agree with Bernardo. We need to use it for a long period of time. 1 week isn't enough to see if it's going to hold because the snapping point, if there is one, could be maybe 2 weeks of continual use. If we have multiple people try it out for a good 2 months, then we'll have several reviews from different experienced users and we'll know how well it held up.

[Puppetboy]

If you have confidence in your product why on earth would you even consider sending it off to someone to review it for you...If you send a brand new whip off on the rounds for various people to review it and crack it all you'll get back if you get it back at all is a second hand whip, can't think why you'd even consider that

I'd say stick to your guns and keep going forwards as you are, if your product is good, if it's priced fairly and if you provide good customer service (which it would appear you do) then eventually your whip will find it's way onto the quality budget whip list in the same way the budget whips on that list already got their place there.....

That's been my attitude since the beginning. But it seems that my whip is not gaining much ground with this hard-core bunch (no pun intended). That's why I am considering this.

We should not forget that even though this Deluxe whip current price is within the budget level ($200), Todd offers it on his website as an alternative to high end whips when he says "If you have done any shopping at all, you know that most whip makers charge 400+ for an 8' 12 plait bullwhip."

I will re-word that. I didn't mean for it to be taken that way. This whip is not as good as a $400 whip in finish and appearance. My intention was to let the inexperienced know that whips are expensive. The most common reaction I get is shock at the high price. As a former English teacher, I should know that it's always good to have someone else proof-read your work...

Which brings me to this point. This whip costs $199. It's not meant to compete with whips twice the price. It is a screen-accurate looking whip that is also functional. If comparisons are to be made, it should be with whips in the same price range.

A guy from Switzerland contacted a while ago saying he needed a new whip, since he had gotten Todd's deluxe whip, and the whip had broken at the handle-core junction (the transition zone) after a little use. He said he needed a real whip, made out of leather in the conventional and proven methods. Now, I don't know if that story is true or not, as I haven't seen the whip in person or any photos, but it illustrates the point of the durability issue in Todd' offering.

Actually, that was one of my "prop" whips. The confusion is that when I introduced them I called them "deluxe" whips. Of course, he was given a full refund as he obviously had a defective one. Has no one ever gotten a bad leather core whip?

Also keep in mind that not all whip makers use kangaroo for the bellies or bolsters. You're basically getting a cowhide whip with a kangaroo overlay. How many whip makers use solid kangaroo?

We need to know its durability. Does it break over time? how about stretch? One of the great benefits of a braided belly is that it holds it shape longer than say a core made of strips of leather. How the polyurethane core compares?

Very good point. How long does a leather core whip last? Don't tell me "forever" because I know that's not true. I'm sure it varies with the quality of the leather, but leather does not last forever, no matter how you care for it. Some of you whipcracking pros that have had whips for 20, 30 years, can you tell us how long the average whip performs well before it begins to deteriorate and needs to be replaced? No anecdotes about the best whip you ever had, just the "average" low-priced whip.

Let's just be comparing apples to apples here. Will my $199 whip be cracking strong long after other $199 whips have turned into noodles?

This is a new idea. I sourced the best material available - the toughest industrial urethane with the longest life and the best mechanical properties from a company that is 125 years old and the industry's leader in liquid plastics. They estimate that the urethane should last 20 - 25 years based on my application before it's mechanical properties begin to degenerate. This product is usually used for bumpers, rollers, and stamping pads in heavy machinery, and in those applications, of course, the life-span is shorter. A light string to swing through the air should be childs' play for this material. Since I haven't used one for 20 years, I can't confirm that. But that the information I have been given and I put this product out in good faith based on that information. I'm not sure that a three month test will put this issue to rest.

And remember - a leather core usually ends several feet short of the end, so the outer plait is getting the brunt of the stress anyway. (am I wrong about that?)

Is this the best whip in the world? No. Is it worth $199? I think so, but ultimately that is up to the individual to decide.

And speaking of apples to apples - are there other vendors of whips in this price range that are willing to have their products compared? Or am I the only one?

[bigrex]

I've been waiting for someone with some whip experience to give a review of Todd's deluxe whip after some extensive long-term use, but I keep hearing, "I've heard this about them..or I think that with that kind of construction..." yadah yadah. So, if this does happen I will be happy to read the results, I'll definitely just be an onlooker since my whip knowledge and experience is mediocre to say the least. I guess those with more experience just prefer not to buy one and so they never try one, hence we don't really have any first-hand accounts to draw real conclusions from on this board.

Maybe someone should run it against a new leather core whip as a counterpart and list descriptive differences or similarities in specific categories of performance, wear, etc.

I agree that since we don't want to wait 20 or so years to see which core wears out first that probably won't be resolved.

[Canuck Digger]

"And remember - a leather core usually ends several feet short of the end, so the outer plait is getting the brunt of the stress anyway. (am I wrong about that?) "

Well yes and no. Yes, the plaited belly section of most buwhips does end several feet before the tip of the whip

BUT

since the inside of the rest of the whip is made up of several strands from both the belly and the dropped strands of the overlay as well as a bolster for most of the remainder of the whip, and in the case of a roo hide whip, those dropped strands ARE made of kangaroo, they do take up their fair share of the stress in the second half of the thong.

I do feel awkward that you are getting a lot of scrutiny that could almost be called criticism. I don't think that was the innitial idea or intent. However, this IS a small community and you know that EVERYBODY new goes through this. The Ebay guy did and he failed miserably and keeps on failing with each and every whip he sells, and I for one would have no problem calling his whips useless pieces of @#$% to his face if I ever met him. Why do I care? After all, it's not my money that is being spent. Because he CLAIMS his whips are a LOT better than they really are, and is thus not only deceiving the general public who don't know any better, but is also causing harm to REAL whipmakers by giving his dissapointed clients a bad image of whipmakers as a whole, that's why.

Do I think you are the same? No. Not for a second, and that's why I feel bad you're getting all this flack. However, you are in a peculiar position of being half-way between a prop that is meant ONLY as a visual accessory, and half-way between a conventionally-made whip with all the expectations that are attached to that type of item. It's unfortunate, but there you have it. Hopefully having someone competent give your whips a decent run will put these fears to rest and will demonstrate that your whips are good and decent and actually are a new approach to whipmaking and in the end, proves beneficial to you. Yes, you may be in the spotlight at the moment, but if things go well, this will end up being the type of promotion money can't buy...

Has anyone else gone through a similar testing request? I don't think so, but then, asside from nylon whipmakers, everybody else works with leather and we all know what to expect from that material. If a whipmaker behaves badly toward clients or if his product is sub-standard, it will eventually come out here, and in that way at least, there is a comparable degree of scrutiny. Even the venerable David Morgan has had one or two moments here if I remember correctly. Whoever you are, newcomer or accomplished master, in the end, you are only as good as your last run.
Cheers and all the best to you )

Franco

[rjallen70]

"but if things go well, this will end up being the type of promotion money can't buy... "
That was my point exactly...
I for one, am rooting for Todd.

[RaiderZee]

Howdy,

Not much a whip guy, but I've just gotta give props to Todd. I've ordered a number of items from him, and they have been exactly what he stated them to be. He's swimming with sharks here (no offense), but has thrown down the gauntlet. A durable, functional, reasonably SA whip for $200 fills a big niche in this hobby, especially for gearheads whose prime focus isn't the whip. I hope his Deluxe gets a fair shake and comes through with flying colors.

RaiderZee

[IndyWhips]

If you have confidence in your product why on earth would you even consider sending it off to someone to review it for you...If you send a brand new whip off on the rounds for various people to review it and crack it all you'll get back if you get it back at all is a second hand whip, can't think why you'd even consider that

I'd say stick to your guns and keep going forwards as you are, if your product is good, if it's priced fairly and if you provide good customer service (which it would appear you do) then eventually your whip will find it's way onto the quality budget whip list in the same way the budget whips on that list already got their place there.....

That's been my attitude since the beginning. But it seems that my whip is not gaining much ground with this hard-core bunch (no pun intended). That's why I am considering this.

It is of course your whip so your choice, but if as you stated you sold 125 of them in a year then I'd say you must already be on that that list of whips on a budget that are acceptable....

There are people posting on this thread who would be lucky if they've made 125 whips in total let alone sold that many in a year....

Tony

[BullWhipBorton]

I really appreciate all the kind recommendations and faith many of you have in my ability and impartiality, Thanks for that.

Todd really has nothing to prove to me with his whips, but if wanted me to do a product review of one for Club Obi-Wan he is welcome to ask. I have done these types of whip tests/reviews before and try to be as fair, impartial and honest in my observations as possible. My references in the world of whip cracking and the whip arts probably speak for themselves but I am pretty sure I would meet his criteria and then some ;-) .

Dan

[Whip Basics]

I have also contacted Robby of Whip Basics fame, as a potential tester.
I am certain the videos from him will be tops... and Whip basics
"Robert Amper" to round it out. (unconfirmed)

Thanks for bringing me into that. But - honestly - I'm not the right guy. Because I think it's not neccessary
to review it. Todd says it's a good looking costume whip which can be cracked now and then. So what?
A review could say: "Well, it looks nice on the belt, makes a great piece for my costume, and I cracked it.
No competition for my 600.00 Dollar roo whip, but..." I think, Todd said everything right away that matters.
Why send whips through the country and back just to confirm that? Or - when did Paul Nolan send one of his
whips around? Or Bernardo? Or Joe Strain? Don't get me wrong, I'm really honored to be mentioned here,
but again - I'm not the right guy for this.

Thanks and take care,
Robby

[hollywood1340]

Todd,
This brings up the crux of the issue I guess, is it still considered "A nice costume piece which can be cracked now and then" or as I've read and understood contender in the whip, just plain whip, marketplace, to be used as we all use our whips, no matter what the construction?

[Puppetboy]

A review could say: "Well, it looks nice on the belt, makes a great piece for my costume, and I cracked it.
No competition for my 600.00 Dollar roo whip, but..."

Yes, I would suspect that is what would be said - which is what I've been saying. It is not a $600 whip for $199. No pretense about that.

is it still considered "A nice costume piece which can be cracked now and then" or as I've read and understood contender in the whip, just plain whip, marketplace, to be used as we all use our whips, no matter what the construction?

Yes and no. I'm saying compare apples to apples. You can't compare these with whips made by the real whip artisans. Yes, you may consider it a "real" whip. A 12 plait whip for $199. Not for performers, not for whip afficianados, but for the average guy who wants something to round out his costume, doesn't have a screen-accurate whip, doesn't want to spend more than $199, and would like to get into the whip cracking hobby. I think for them, it represents a very good value. The leather is pre-finished, so it looks like a tanned whip right out of the box. If you already own a fine whip, there is no reason you would be interested in buying one of these.

THAT is the audience this product is geared toward, let me be VERY clear on that. That is the audience I designed this product for, and this is the audience I would recommend this product to.

I AM saying (in addition) that whip hobbyists would probably be surprised by the performance of these whips CONSIDERING THE PRICE. As far as longevity - I believe (based on the best information I have) that they will last as long as most other whips, but only time will tell. But the same could be said of many of the whip vendors we know - they haven't been making whips long enough to judge the long-term performance of their work. Don't expect miracles just because it's made out of leather.

And I DO believe that my core techinique, if done properly, may be an alternative to leather cores for basic whips. Consider the advantages - no handle to thong transition, no transitions from belly to belly, a taper you can set and reproduce perfectly time after time, and a continuous, single piece core from end to end. Of course, very advanced whip artisans can manipulate their core construction to change it's performance characteristics. But of course, those artisans' work does not come cheap. And that is not the clientele I am selling to.

[Indiana Bones]

I'm new to the forum but not to Indiana Jones and WWII gear. I'm an avid collector of not only Indy gear but WWII origianal and reproduction items. Todds Costumes puts out some high quality real life heavy clothing, Raiders Jacket, shirt, gloves and Boots. Don't let the word costiume fool you! Todd's whip is like everything else its nice. Looks the part and works for an attractive price. Nothing wrong with innovative ideas that allow fans and collectors to afford a SA Indy whip thaty functions! Not many aside from whip performers can justify spending $400 + for something made that is time consuming old world methods and then only use it for recreation. I'm that guy! ;-)

[blueoakleyz]

Hey Todd can you give me more info on your $99 prop whip? I just want it as a screen accurate prop/costume piece

[Puppetboy]

The $99 prop whips were designed to be carbon copies of our deluxe whips, but the product delivered was not up to our deluxe whip quality. They were screen accurate in appearance except for the knobs, which were not shaped as I specified.

The factory has promised to fix the quality issues and the knobs (and from the preview photos they have sent, they have done a good job), and they are working right now on filling my order. I can tell you that they have gone to a great deal of effort to improve the quality in many areas.

Their workmanship was actually very good, and they were very nice-looking whips. The problems were with their materials.

I expect the new shipment to be exactly what you describe - a screen accurate, full sized, 12 plait, leather overlay whip that will behave like the real thing. They just won't tolerate the extreme stress of actual cracking use (not for long, anyway).

I think it's a great product for someone who wants that MOST IMPORTANT costume accessory, but wants the real-deal authentic look, not one of those awful scrap-leather whip-in-a-bag things from the costume shop. If you're not planning to learn whip cracking, it's the way to go.

[Indiana County Jr.]

As a side note, you run the risk of getting an accidental injury by using a "cheaper" or "lesser" quality whip. I have seen it first hand. Just my .02 cents.


Allen

[Indiana Bones]

I have to disagree with that comment!
That would be like saying you can't shoot yourself with an expensive gun only a cheap one. An since when has 199.00 become cheap, affordable "yes", cheap "no!"

I've heard talented musicians make a cheap guitar sound like an expensive one and bad musicians make an expensive guitar sound cheap. Same goes with guns, guitars or bullwhips its all in the talent of the hand whom wields it!

[Indyzane]

I want to but one of these whips. Does anyone have a current photo on how they look after having them for a while? Thanks!

Indyzane

[DarenHenryW]

Here is my "Deluxe whip" (Though I think they accidentally sent me a "prop whip"--regardless, I exchanged it!)



Not made for cracking.

DHW

[Indyzane]

Here is my "Deluxe whip" (Though I think they accidentally sent me a "prop whip"--regardless, I exchanged it!)



Not made for cracking.

DHW

Thanks Daren looks nice!

[Puppetboy]

DarenHenryW,

The picture you show is of a prop whip, and you are correct, they are not great for cracking. The deluxe whip is made for cracking. Have you tried your deluxe whip yet?

Todd

[DarenHenryW]

Sorry, Todd. I had actually exchanged it for some other gear: (holsters, bags, strap, shirt, etc--ALL GREAT GEAR!!!)

For whips, I stepped up and bought a Joe Strain whip!

But the hat in this photo is the HJ I got from you! (and you can't see it, but I'm wearing your holster!)

Thanks!



DHW

[Ranger36]

What happened to the testing?

[Puppetboy]

Nobody followed through. It would require a lot of organization. If anyone wants to put it together, I will send a whip for review. Again, it should be compared with other whips in a $150 - $250 price range. I think the comparison part is the difficulty, as it would require other vendors to offer whips for review. Unless its a comparison with other similar whips, a review comparing with $300+ whips is not really useful or fair.

I'm sure there are a few owners of my whip on this forum. We've sold a good number of them.

Todd

[Ranger36]

Ahh, okay!

[Puppetboy]

BullWhipBorton, you had offered back in this thread to do the testing. Have you tested the $150 - $250 offerings enough to make a good comparison? Do you think you could get some of the other vendors to lend you a whip in that price range? Let's get samples of their current products.

[bigrex]

BullWhipBorton, you had offered back in this thread to do the testing. Have you tested the $150 - $250 offerings enough to make a good comparison? Do you think you could get some of the other vendors to lend you a whip in that price range? Let's get samples of their current products.

Pardon my exceeding ignorance, but what other $150-250 range whips are there? Three-plait rawhide and nylon whips? I'm exaggerating and being rather facetious of course, but not too many come to mind, now that I think about it I guess Mr. Caicedo does make a good 8-plait 8 ft. cowhide Indy whip for $160, that would be one, and his 8 ft. 12-plait for $240.

[BullWhipBorton]

Pardon my exceeding ignorance, but what other $150-250 range whips are there? Three-plait rawhide and nylon whips? I'm exaggerating and being rather facetious of course, but not too many come to mind, now that I think about it I guess Mr. Caicedo does make a good 8-plait 8 ft. cowhide Indy whip for $160, that would be one, and his 8 ft. 12-plait for $240.

There are good whips available in that price range. The Winrch 4 plait IOAB cowhide bullwhips and Mike Murphy’s AWS 12 plait Kangaroo hide budget bullwhips both come to mind. Price aside though, a well made whip will perform like a well made whip should, no matter what the price tag says.

BullWhipBorton, you had offered back in this thread to do the testing. Have you tested the $150 - $250 offerings enough to make a good comparison? Do you think you could get some of the other vendors to lend you a whip in that price range? Let's get samples of their current products.

Todd, Yes I have a great deal of experience working many whips, including several of those whips with in the same price range as yours. I doubt that other whip makers would be willing to submit examples of there work for comparison though. Mostly because many have already been scrutinized and reviewed, so they have nothing to gain from it.

As I said in my previous post earlier this year, you have nothing to prove to me and since you stand behind your product, I personally don’t think you need my opinion or any type of seal of approval. If you still want the opinions and input of credible whip handlers though, bring one of your whips with you to the Queen Mary Summit in November. I’ll be there this year along with several other skillful whip handlers, let us try it out there and maybe we can give you some feedback.

Dan

[HowardCarter23]

Hi all, I'm a new member who has been reading along for few months now. I purchased a Todd's Deluxe in June and I have to say it is a gorgeous prop and I love that fresh leather smell. As an Indy enthusiast, but not a whip expert, I found this to be exactly what I needed. After having played with really inexpensive whips (under $50...lol), I felt that Todd's Deluxe had great feel, balance, and great style in appearance, so this was a big step Up for me, personally. It also makes a beautiful cracking sound. Having read the description on Todd's website, I understood going in, that I would not be receiving a David Morgan, but comprehended that I would be getting something that would take at least average use and not come apart. Being primarily used as a high-end prop (imo), I treat it as such and I couldn't be happier with it and value it the most among my other Todd's items(Raiders holster, gun belt, web belt...boots and gloves on the way). Besides my Penman AB Henry... to be pryed from "my cold, dead hands" ;-), and my Wested Raiders Lamb(otr), Todd's whip is a favorite and really adds to my costume for a bargain price. Thank You and Kind Regards.

[DarenHenryW]

Great review, Howard!

Todd has a lot of fantastic products, and he has wonderful customer service!

[Indyzane]

Howard, hey echoing Henry here but nice review! Welcome to the club! You are starting of right with all the gear you listed. I need a "good" whip and it's been killin' me to make up my mind.

Indyzane

[DarenHenryW]

Howard, hey echoing Henry here but nice review! Welcome to the club! You are starting of right with all the gear you listed. I need a "good" whip and it's been killin' me to make up my mind.

Indyzane

Don't get a "good" whip. Get a good whip.

DHW