A-2 Jacket - G&B or USW

rrhanselka · Post by **rrhanselka** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:51 pm

I'm looking for advice.
I'm interested in replacing my old A-2 with a new one. I want either a G&B in medium seal goat or the new USW Signature Limited Edition in Goat. Does anyone have a USW A-2? Is it historically accurate? I know the quality has to be great.
Your thoughts please.

Many Thanks
Randall

blueoakleyz · Post by **blueoakleyz** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:17 pm

rrhanselka wrote:I'm looking for advice.
I'm interested in replacing my old A-2 with a new one. I want either a G&B in medium seal goat or the new USW Signature Limited Edition in Goat. Does anyone have a USW A-2? Is it historically accurate? I know the quality has to be great.
Your thoughts please.

Many Thanks
Randall

I have (or will have again) a US Wings A-2. I had to exchange it so I'm waiting on the replacement. It was real nice. I have no clue if it's historically accurate though..

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:46 pm

I believe US Wings is the current supplier to the Airforce. I understand their A2 is based on historic US Government specs. Someone here will know for sure.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:54 pm

I thought Cockpit is the official A2 supplier to the military.

Anyways acejackets.com has some awesome variety of A2's I've ever seen!

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:57 pm

I have the wings A-2 it is not historically accurate, more of the modern A-2 jacket. If you historically you have to go with Eastman,Goodwear or US authentic.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:13 pm

I don't think there are two 'historic' A-2s exactly alike, and certainly not between each original manufacturer.
I thought the Wings pattern fit in there somewhere.

CM · Post by CM » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:29 pm

RCSignals wrote:I don't think there are two 'historic' A-2s exactly alike, and certainly not between each original manufacturer.
I thought the Wings pattern fit in there somewhere.

No it's a remake with a modern design and admirers of genuine A2's don't like them at all.

I'd actually recommend the G&B A2's a bit more acurate in terms of cut and features and really, really well made.

The best website for this is vintageleatherjackets.com. They'll tell you about repos and real A2's.

It's true that original A2's were made by many companies and came in a variety of subtle differences.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:38 pm

Thanks for clearing that up. I like the look of A2s but personally don't like the knit cuffs.

Browncoat · Post by **Browncoat** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:07 pm

I think Gibson and Barnes supplies the official A-2s for the USAF Thunderbirds.

If you want historical accuracy Goodwear Leather Company seems to be the top dog.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:06 am

If you want a historically accurate A-2 repro here's my advice:

For a modern, blousy fit and pattern (think varsity letterman jacket), with modern specs, go for the military issue US Wings model. Good quality, rugged and low price, but not historically accurate.

For a bargain, made in the USA, fairly accurate and quite trim fit in horse or goat go with US Authentic. For a historically accurate fit and look, this is the best bargain, IMHO.

For top notch build quality, in a more modern and roomy fit - though not as blousy as US Wings, go with Gibson & Barnes / Flight Suits.

For, IMHO, the most gorgeous leather selection (reputedly sourced from the Horween tannery in Chicago), superb customer service and a historically accurate fit (but with roomy, somewhat "slouchy" shoulders), go with Aero Leather in Scotland.

For highly accurate patterns and hardware, wonderful English attention to detail, but less choice in leather selection, go with Eastman Leather.

For THE most historically accurate repro, in a number of different patterns, custom made in the old U.S. of A., go with Good Wear Leather Coat Company.

For a rugged (heavy!), bullet-proof, outlast-your-grandchildren materials and construction, made in the US, go with Lost Worlds. I've never dealt with them, but they have a reputation for, shall we say, a "confrontational" approach to customer service.

For accurate detail, trim fit and excellent customer service, go with Real McCoy's New Zealand (especially when the exchange rates are favorable).

If money is no object, uncompromising quality is paramount, and you possess sufficient constitution and perseverance to track one down (and you're not too big - they only sell to the Japanese market), go with Buzz Rickson in Japan.

- Mac

tym · Post by **tym** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:42 am

Mac wrote: For, IMHO, the most gorgeous leather selection (reputedly sourced from the Horween tannery in Chicago), superb customer service and a historically accurate fit (but with roomy, somewhat "slouchy" shoulders), go with Aero Leather in Scotland.

I've heard good things about this maker from militaria collectors. Pricey, though.

CM · Post by CM » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:57 am

Mac wrote:If you want a historically accurate A-2 repro here's my advice:

For a modern, blousy fit and pattern (think varsity letterman jacket), with modern specs, go for the military issue US Wings model. Good quality, rugged and low price, but not historically accurate.

For a bargain, made in the USA, fairly accurate and quite trim fit in horse or goat go with US Authentic. For a historically accurate fit and look, this is the best bargain, IMHO.

For top notch build quality, in a more modern and roomy fit - though not as blousy as US Wings, go with Gibson & Barnes / Flight Suits.

For, IMHO, the most gorgeous leather selection (reputedly sourced from the Horween tannery in Chicago), superb customer service and a historically accurate fit (but with roomy, somewhat "slouchy" shoulders), go with Aero Leather in Scotland.

For highly accurate patterns and hardware, wonderful English attention to detail, but less choice in leather selection, go with Eastman Leather.

For THE most historically accurate repro, in a number of different patterns, custom made in the old U.S. of A., go with Good Wear Leather Coat Company.

For a rugged (heavy!), bullet-proof, outlast-your-grandchildren materials and construction, made in the US, go with Lost Worlds. I've never dealt with them, but they have a reputation for, shall we say, a "confrontational" approach to customer service.

For accurate detail, trim fit and excellent customer service, go with Real McCoy's New Zealand (especially when the exchange rates are favorable).

If money is no object, uncompromising quality is paramount, and you possess sufficient constitution and perseverance to track one down (and you're not too big - they only sell to the Japanese market), go with Buzz Rickson in Japan.

- Mac

That's pretty good advice Mac - Id go along with that except the stuff about Aero - overrated. A number of A2 enthusiasts don't feel all that much better about Aero than they do US WIngs. But this, I guess, is opinion.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:09 am

Mac wrote:If you want a historically accurate A-2 repro here's my advice:

For a modern, blousy fit and pattern (think varsity letterman jacket), with modern specs, go for the military issue US Wings model. Good quality, rugged and low price, but not historically accurate.

- Mac

True, with the exception of their limited edition 'vintage' leather A-2. It's made from old sourced 1940's goatskin. It's like nothing else I've ever seen or felt to date. The patterns are based on military sizing rather than the usual oversizing experienced with their jackets. Military correct 'no side entry pockets' too. I just wish they had departed from the correct pattern and added an inside pocket.

Otherwise, a VERY nice jacket. Yes, I own one.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:30 am

Hey! I LIKE the big brass zipper on my USW jacket!

Regards! Michaelson

interbak · Post by **interbak** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:58 am

My A-2 collection consists of an Aero, a US Authentic, a current issue Cockpit, and an old Flight Apparel Industries from the mid '80's. I've been to US Wings and have several of their jackets, but not one of their A-2s. I've tried them on, but wasn't particularly impressed. A lot of A-2 collectors have issues with Aero's details, but I don't think any of them would put Aero and USW in the same category. US Authentic makes a really nice heavy horse A-2, I have the Seal Brown, which is too gray in color for my taste, and the knits are too long and wimpy, if it had come with better knits, and a nicer brown I would have stopped looking right their. My Aero, in russet brown, is a beautiful color, not too rusty, the knits are great, the overall quality of the jacket is superb. My only complaint as far as details goes is the epaulets are too narrow making them look extra long. The modern Cockpit is a great all around beater that I wear to work, it has inside pockets and hand warmers and all the details the purists despise. I actually like the old Flight Apparel Ind. that I picked up at a flee market for under $100.00 best of them all. If you're after a decent repro, in the medium price range I would lean heavily towards the G&B, if you want greater detail and don't mind spending the cash and waiting a few months go Goodwear. Aero is excellent quality, not as accurate as GW, price is a little less (but not much, you have to check current exchange rates,and factor in overseas shipping, duty etc.) and delivery is quicker. Eastman has a really good reputation, but the ones I saw at the GoM the other year didn't impress me all that much. It all depends on what you're looking for, and how much you want to spend. But back to the original question, I would take a G&B over the USW, one more opinion for the pile.

Brian

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:13 am

_ wrote:
Michaelson wrote:Hey! I LIKE the big brass zipper on my USW jacket!

Regards! Michaelson
Yep - They're superior! The big brass zipper illustrates the caveat one always needs to keep in front of them when working with the Sarge. You could be agreeing verbally to be making this "magnum opus" reproduction. You may spend months going over details ad nausea. And when Hack walks through the door with an ear-to-ear grin with the end product in hand, he will not understand why you have a problem with the big brass zipper. Why would you want a cheap flimsy zipper like they used back then? Why would you want OD thread on a brown jacket?

Technically? I think he's right and we're the ones with a few loose screws...

Well, yeah to all that....I just like the zipper.

;-)

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:30 am

LOL!

Well, with that said, the zipper on the authentic '40's leather I mentioned above is a small toothed YKK antique brass version.

http://www.uswings.com/ta2.asp

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:30 pm

This jacket has the rectangular YKK pull.

Regards! Michaelson

Last Crusader · Post by **Last Crusader** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:42 pm

Just want to add one more thing. The FS A-2s do all have cotton knit cuffs and waistbands. The USW have synthentic knit cuffs. The cotton ones are much more durable and can still be in good shape after years. The synthetic cuffs begin to fuzz after only weeks of wear and lose their tensibility. That´s what I experienced with the USW A-2.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Once again, I can only speak to the one I've posted about in this thread...I've worn it for over 2 months now, and have not experienced this myself with the knit....so I'm wondering if they pulled out all the stops to make this one 'right'.

The knit back and cuffs appear to be cotton to me.

Regards! Michaelson

Last Crusader · Post by **Last Crusader** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:08 pm

Oops, I confused USW and FS! Sorry

The FS A-2 has nylon cuffs and waistband.
USW jackets have cotton cuffs.

CM · Post by CM » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:10 pm

Last Crusader wrote:Oops, I confused USW and FS! Sorry :[

The FS A-2 has nylon cuffs and waistband.
USW jackets have cotton cuffs.

Shoudn't that be wool? Cotton is pretty flimsy as a knit, I think. I think the best ones are probably a poly/wool mix (65% Wool).

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:15 pm

I don't believe they're wool, but they sure aren't synthetic either....at least to MY eye. I honestly don't know.

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:15 pm

I'd think they should be wool too, especially if they are mil-spec

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:15 pm

They must be wool then.m This USW is mil-spec.

Regards !Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:17 am

Understood.

Regards! Michaelson

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 pm

I have a wings horshide A-2 and the jacket has held up very nicly,but the cuffs and waist band pilled up and strectced out in a month. Got wool knits from G&B put havn't put the on yet.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:13 pm

Wow! I must be easy on my stuff! Mine still looks like new!

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:44 pm

Michaelson wrote:Wow! I must be easy on my stuff! Mine still looks like new!

Regards! Michaelson

But yours is specifically mil-spec. Some of the others from Wings might not be, and those may get different knits.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:02 pm

True, but almost all the A-2's that USW sells are touted as being mil-spec, so I don't think mine is that different than the rest of their A-2 offerings.

Regards! Michaelson

tym · Post by **tym** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:03 am

^ Which one do you have, specifically? I'm considering taking a drive to their retail shop (about 30 miles from my current location) and having a look at the A2 2000. I want the extra pockets.

blueoakleyz · Post by **blueoakleyz** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:23 am

tym wrote:^ Which one do you have, specifically? I'm considering taking a drive to their retail shop (about 30 miles from my current location) and having a look at the A2 2000. I want the extra pockets.

Awwwwwww I wish I got a chance to pick mine out. The first one I got had a pocket discrepancy so I had to send it back and the second one I got had a spot on it.. but I still love it, it's SOOOOO nice. (I have the A2 2000)

I think Michaelson has this one
http://www.uswings.com/ta2.asp#LEVGA2

maybe another as well?

tym · Post by **tym** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:27 am

^ For something like this, being able to try before I buy is huge. That's especially true as I'm a definite thin and tall size (somewhere between a 36L and 37R). Plus, $250 for a nice US-made jacket is a great price.

I'll have to drive out there this weekend or the next, provided that it stops snowing!

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:47 am

blueoakleyz wrote: I think Michaelson has this one
http://www.uswings.com/ta2.asp#LEVGA2

maybe another as well?

Correct. That's what I also posted on the 8th. ;-)

I'm still very pleased with this jacket too!

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:18 pm

How is that 60 year old goat hide Michaelson ?

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:40 pm

VERY nice. I've been surprised at how light weight it is in physical weight, and yet supple in feel too, if that makes any sense. The closest thing I've ever owned to this was a VERY old Avirex A-2 military contract surplus jacket from the early 1960's. Had the same feel. Tight grained too.

I've worn it in this really cold weather with a layered sweater underneath, and it's been perfect during the cold ride home in the unheated Plymouth.

I'm very impressed and pleased to date.

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:43 pm

That's good to hear Michaelson

I was really wondering how 60 year old hides would have kept.
I'm tempted now.

interbak · Post by **interbak** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:31 pm

Hey Michaelson,

Are you sure about the Avirex Military A-2 from the '60's? I don't think Avirex was in business in the '60's, and the A-2 didn't renter military service until the late '80's. Wrong decade maybe?

Brian

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:32 pm

You're right. I double checked, and the tag reads 1977, and is a military contart tag.

Keep in mind that even though the A-2 was not an official military issue again until the 80's, airmen could order one privately for use during the entire period of the Viet Nam war up until reissure by the military. You didn't have to have one issued.

Regards! Michaelson

interbak · Post by **interbak** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:50 pm

That sounds more like it. The very early Avirex's had a good reputation as a decent A-2 copy. Later on they got into flashy rapper gear, and their A-2's got all baggy and ugly. Their "Cockpit" label is now their line of historical jackets. They don't have much of a reputation these days with the avid collectors, I use one as my daily work jacket and it holds up great. I have others for more authentic accuracy.
Side track ended, back to the topic at hand.

Brian

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:51 pm

Yeah, I liked mine (it was technically my first 'Indy' jacket), but 'outgrew it.

My youngest daughter now owns it.

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:02 pm

interbak wrote:That sounds more like it. The very early Avirex's had a good reputation as a decent A-2 copy. Later on they got into flashy rapper gear, and their A-2's got all baggy and ugly. Their "Cockpit" label is now their line of historical jackets. They don't have much of a reputation these days with the avid collectors, I use one as my daily work jacket and it holds up great. I have others for more authentic accuracy.
Side track ended, back to the topic at hand.

Brian

The Avirex name was sold, Cockpit is the new name being used by the original Avirex owner. There is no connection between current Cockpit jackets and current Avirex clothing.

I think you can find the story on the Cockpit web site.

Indiana Bones · Post by **Indiana Bones** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:02 am

I've owned Eastman and US Authentics A-2 but for the money go US Authentics. As far as details and accurate spec for the money, I know they also have made improvements on more accurate details and the wool around the cuffs and waist are now heavier on the recently make. As far as eastman they make a beautiful jacket but spendy unless you get lucky and get a good price on eBay for a used one..

A-2 Jacket - G&B or USW

A-2 Jacket - G&B or USW

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