A dedicated leather jacket for expedition use...

[JimL]

Hello all you gear heads.

I am the happy owner of a custom Wested ROtLA jacket, and am pleased to report it is quite a nice jacket- very nice for the cost in fact.

But, that is not the reason for this post.

After the first of the year, I am planning to work more strongly on the design phase of a new, purpose-designed expedition jacket. This jacket will be loosely based on some of the design elements of the Indiana Jones jacket, but it will have real-world useabe features and specifications based on my experience and needs in global exploration and vehicle-based expeditions. (It will be exclusively available through www.drivetheglobe.com)

The reason for this post is to gather as much 'intelegence' as possible on exactly what features you love and hate about your Indy, as well as other, jackets you may have, or just have been exposed to throughout your lifetime. I want to make a timeless design, where form totally follows function.

Some design elements to be employed MAY include:
*removeable liner- likely a nylon zipper arrangement- it might have full sleeves too, rather than the typical vest style.
*Reinforced shoulder top area for carying a back pack
*Reinforced elbow patches
*Secret passport storage pocket (with zipper- I might patent this idea too...)
*Action back of course, possibly using denim for the 'moving' parts to make the motion more free and fluid. I have a total re-design of the action back, but it may be too complicated...
*two-way zipper; the ones you can 'unzip' at the bottom while the top is still zipped. (important while driving)
*all zippers will be 8-gage brass (except liner due to chilyness of metal)
*Larger (than on my jacket- more like my Barbour) cargo pockets (with hand-warmers), and likely a zippered left outside breast pocket (like my Schott, possibly wider)
*MAYBE some internal vent zippers- open them inside the liner to allow air flow out the back of the jacket- very nice in the more humid climates...
*Fastenable collar, for wind/sand protection (like my Barbour has) which may include a provision to 'snap' the colar down so it doesn't flap in the wind (like the A-2)
*Adjustable waist/hip straps- like the Indy design (sort of) but more secure and more useful. Like my Carhart jacket, but using a slider of some sort and not a couple snaps to choose from.
*Internal waist cinch strap to keep the drafts out (like my Canada Goose has)
*snap-fastened and/or a double wind flap (one inside and one outside) to really stop the wind- snap fasteners will be hidden in the flap to prevent scratches
*arm pit gussets on high-cut sleeve holes
*arm pit vent holes (like my Schott)
*I think I'll stick with the cotton body / satin sleeve idea. That is really nice in my opinion.

Other possible features include another hidden cash pocket, small firearm pocket, and a few other design elements too. I will be running this by my best friend who happens to be one of the heads of design for Reebok- I think he will like the change from 'drawing shoes' as he puts it...

None of the elements will be "for show"; the pockets will be useable size, rivets may be used to strengthen high-stress points (like on many Jeans) around the pockets for example...

Wested Leather will likley be doing the work, as Peter's prices seem to be most reasonable for custom design work of this type, but I am certainly open to ofers from other vendors as well.

So, that's it! Please feel free to list features you would like to see, as well as things you DON'T want to see, so I can do the best possible job on this.

Thanks to everyone who contributes!

[Don't Call Me Junior!]

No immediate feature ideas come to mind but I love this idea of a real-world expedition jacket - not that I normally engage in frequent world expeditions myself (though I did stay in a Holiday Inn once) - I just love great jackets. I'm curious as to what you were hoping the real-world cost range of this jacket will be once things get under way.

[JimL]

That is a good question; however I could not even begin to speculate at this point.

I am collecting design ideas now, and then trying to incorporate them in such a way that the jacket doesn't end up looking like Michael jackson's Thriller jacket...

So, honestly, I don't know.

I will say that with the proper forethought, it will be worth it... ;-)

[CM]

My view is keep it simple. Really simple. For instance, no need for an action back if it is well designed. They just get caught in things. The less stitching, the less features, the less likely things will go wrong.

[hocfutue]

I recommend a "Poacher's Pocket", a pocket inside the back of the jacket. Great place to keep stuff out of the way.

Like the firearm pocket idea, too. Trick there is providing enough support in the structure of the jacket so it doesn't sag out, and that it has sufficient structure that the pistol doesn't "print" through the jacket.

[JimL]

My view is keep it simple. Really simple. For instance, no need for an action back if it is well designed. They just get caught in things. The less stitching, the less features, the less likely things will go wrong.

I was going to try that, but the problem is, if you don't allow for movement, the seams are heavily stressed, or the jacket has to be made much more baggy in design. Many parkas don't have the action back because the down compresses and allows the movement.

I want to keep it simple and clean so things don't get caught; however in order to get a trim fit (bulky coats don't work well in a Recarro driving seat) and still allow freedom of movement, AND have hiugh durability, certain things have to be done. The action back will not be like the Raider's jacket- that is not a very good design in my opinion (but I love it anyway). I will more likely go with something like my carhart design, but allow additional material. The stiffer leather over the softer denim should allow good movement without excess bulk. Elastics do a far better job taming denim bellows than horse hide bellows for sure...

There has to be seams. No getting around that. Where there are seams that are highly stresed, there willbe rivets to keep things together.

Thanks for the input!

[JimL]

I recommend a "Poacher's Pocket", a pocket inside the back of the jacket. Great place to keep stuff out of the way.

I have one in my Barbour (Beaufort model) and it is neat, but rarely used. I was thinking something similar, but on the inside (and not a big) for bills and important papers you might want to keep close...

Like the firearm pocket idea, too. Trick there is providing enough support in the structure of the jacket so it doesn't sag out, and that it has sufficient structure that the pistol doesn't "print" through the jacket.

If I did this, it would be small- maybe for a .25 or .32 ACP. Nothing like a 9mm would fit in there. Some .380's perhaps, like the old Walther... I may just scrap this idea as it will add a lot of cost and will only be apprciated by a few buyers.

[Long John Tinfoil]

A feature of a now worn-out Eddie Bauer jacket that I really liked was a hood in the collar. This meant that the collar was square-ended and always "up", and 98% of the time I wore a hat with it instead of using the hood, but when the wind and ice are howling around you, there are times when a hood is a great thing to have.

LJ

[JimL]

Good idea; however incorporating that into a leather collar may be a bit tricky... What might be more plausable would be a detachable hood.

I'll add that to the wish list.

Bear in mind this is not a 'winter' jacket per se, but rather for protection from thorns and dirt while expoloring, much like Indy's is intended to do.

So, the liner could be added when the desert temps drop to 50 or so at night, but you will have it out when it hits 115 or so during the day...

I am quite alergic to Poison Ivy, and will need something like this (with a smooth, easy to clean finish) to keep me from breaking out while hiking in thickly wooded areas,or on little-used trails that can get overrun with thorns.

Keep those ideas coming!

[CM]

My view is keep it simple. Really simple. For instance, no need for an action back if it is well designed. They just get caught in things. The less stitching, the less features, the less likely things will go wrong.

I was going to try that, but the problem is, if you don't allow for movement, the seams are heavily stressed, or the jacket has to be made much more baggy in design. Many parkas don't have the action back because the down compresses and allows the movement.

I want to keep it simple and clean so things don't get caught; however in order to get a trim fit (bulky coats don't work well in a Recarro driving seat) and still allow freedom of movement, AND have hiugh durability, certain things have to be done. The action back will not be like the Raider's jacket- that is not a very good design in my opinion (but I love it anyway). I will more likely go with something like my carhart design, but allow additional material. The stiffer leather over the softer denim should allow good movement without excess bulk. Elastics do a far better job taming denim bellows than horse hide bellows for sure...

There has to be seams. No getting around that. Where there are seams that are highly stresed, there willbe rivets to keep things together.

Thanks for the input!

I realise there have to be seams but good jackets have few of them. You really don't need an action back. A2 jackets don't have them and most well designed bike jackets don't have them. They do look good however.

[Ken]

Ok I would love a pen pocket on the sleeve and maybe a small pocket there too like on this US Wings B15



I am VERY interested to see how this will look!! I will always have the use of a good expedition jacket!

Ken

[interbak]

Hey Jim,
It's always hard to find a jacket with a large interior map pocket, big enough for a road map or an airline ticket, preferably on the right hand side. The gun pocket is a neat feature, but unless you're doing all your exploring in the US, you won't likely get much use out of it. Most of the countries I've been in wouldn't take to kindly to strangers walking around with concealed handguns.

Brian

[norton]

I like the concealed handgun pocket.

Leather, even with vents, really doesn't work well if it's too hot or wet. If it's going to have a liner for winter it would need to be a pretty baggy jacket without the liner.

I'd recommend a heavy weight waxed cotton, like a Filson tin cloth. I have their field jacket and its as rugged and versatile as any jacket I've seen. I love the front pockets, they're large bellows patch pockets with an internal divider so that each is like two full size pockets inside. The snap for the flaps is on a separate loop so that you can fasten them one handed with gloves on. It also has wool lined hand warmer pockets on the chest. It has a zippered poacher pocket and you can snap on a hood which can be stored in the poacher pocket. The collar is faced with wool and can be snapped up and you can put in either a vest or a jacket made in several thicknesses of wool. The jacket is lined in cotton and has a internal chest pocket, I think it zips but I can't remember off hand.

The waxed tin cloth is extremely tough, maybe more so than leather, and it is more water repellant and breathes better too. It takes a year or so of wear to loosen up. It also is less likely to look out of place than leather.

The only things I'd add that you mentioned are the hidden passport pocket, pistol pocket and the zip up vents. Check out the Filson coats and use them as the start of your design.

http://www.filson.com/product/index.jsp ... age=family

[JimL]

Ok I would love a pen pocket on the sleeve and maybe a small pocket there too like on this US Wings B15



I am VERY interested to see how this will look!! I will always have the use of a good expedition jacket!

Ken

I was thinking about this too... If I do it, it will have a provision for ONE pen (a space pen of course) and a small write-in-the-rain pad, and that's it. The pocket you show here has complications for the sake of complications. Those smallest pockets don't look terribly useful to me (but correct me if I'm wrong)

The pad and pen are needed quickly sometimes, but should be out od the way and at the same time accessable right away- like when a jack#$$ cuts you off and you need to jot down a plate number...

Keep 'em coming!

[Michaelson]

J!m, I hope you don't mind, but I made the 'e' in Expedition lower case in your subject title, as evertime this thread title catches my eye, I think it's one on a G&B jacket, as theirs is the 'Expedition'. I'm sure I'm not the only one. ;-)

Regards! Michaelson

[JimL]

Hey Jim,
It's always hard to find a jacket with a large interior map pocket, big enough for a road map or an airline ticket, preferably on the right hand side. The gun pocket is a neat feature, but unless you're doing all your exploring in the US, you won't likely get much use out of it. Most of the countries I've been in wouldn't take to kindly to strangers walking around with concealed handguns.

Brian

Excellent idea... My Canada Goose has several insode pockets, one big enough for a radio!

A zippered (or velcroed) map pocket ( somewhat narrow, but about 12" deep-maybe more if space allows) would be quite useful...

A dedicated inside pocket for one of these:



(Surefire A-2 aviator) would be a cool idea as well... My favorite light at the moment...

[JimL]

I like the concealed handgun pocket.

Leather, even with vents, really doesn't work well if it's too hot or wet. If it's going to have a liner for winter it would need to be a pretty baggy jacket without the liner.

I'd recommend a heavy weight waxed cotton, like a Filson tin cloth. I have their field jacket and its as rugged and versatile as any jacket I've seen. I love the front pockets, they're large bellows patch pockets with an internal divider so that each is like two full size pockets inside. The snap for the flaps is on a separate loop so that you can fasten them one handed with gloves on. It also has wool lined hand warmer pockets on the chest. It has a zippered poacher pocket and you can snap on a hood which can be stored in the poacher pocket. The collar is faced with wool and can be snapped up and you can put in either a vest or a jacket made in several thicknesses of wool. The jacket is lined in cotton and has a internal chest pocket, I think it zips but I can't remember off hand.

The waxed tin cloth is extremely tough, maybe more so than leather, and it is more water repellant and breathes better too. It takes a year or so of wear to loosen up. It also is less likely to look out of place than leather.

The only things I'd add that you mentioned are the hidden passport pocket, pistol pocket and the zip up vents. Check out the Filson coats and use them as the start of your design.

http://www.filson.com/product/index.jsp ... age=family

That is a nice looking jacket, and CHEAP too! I paid $100.00 more for my Barbour (same material) and then extra for the liner and hood...

Anyway, here's the pic of that (by the way the pockets sound excellent)


But, having lived with my Barbour for several years now, I can say these things:
It does not breathe that well
It does not wear that well- far less durable than quality hide
The wax coating slowly rubs off- I can't wear it in my BMW, because it makes a mess of the seat.. (and it's a pain to remove by the way)

Cool material, and honestly I may get that Filston myself as I think it is a better looking jacket than the traditional Barbour it is based on...

How often are you re-treating the Filston? I usually re-treat mine every other year or so... That "worn-in" (lighter color) look means it is not waterproof in those areas any longer.

Here's a pic of the original: the Beaufort

[Rundquist]

Yeah I have to agree that there are many jackets on the market (some posted above) that already fit your requirements and none of them are leather. Cheers

[JimL]

Yes, that is sort of the problem.

I want to offer something similar to above, but in leather.

I called Filston a few minutes ago actually, and they can make the jacket above in tal size for me, at a 30% over retail up-charge, or $357.50. They can start it mid February, and it will take them 10-12 weeks to complete.

Or, I can ask Peter to make me one, to my size, in leather and have it long before Filston completes it, and (probably) for less money out of pocket.

So, I am still moving forward with this, and welcome any additional comments.

And, for the record, I am planning to use the Filston-style cargo pockets, with a leather face and flap, but Denim bellows to keep them more flexible, like the action-back design.

Keep those ideas coming!

[Rundquist]

Yes, that is sort of the problem.

I want to offer something similar to above, but in leather.

I called Filston a few minutes ago actually, and they can make the jacket above in tal size for me, at a 30% over retail up-charge, or $357.50. They can start it mid February, and it will take them 10-12 weeks to complete.

Or, I can ask Peter to make me one, to my size, in leather and have it long before Filston completes it, and (probably) for less money out of pocket.

So, I am still moving forward with this, and welcome any additional comments.

And, for the record, I am planning to use the Filston-style cargo pockets, with a leather face and flap, but Denim bellows to keep them more flexible, like the action-back design.

Keep those ideas coming!

I hate to say this, but Wested's are not particularly known for durability. Not every jacket has to be built like Fort Knox, but it sounds like you would like this one to be.

[norton]

Yes, that is sort of the problem.

I want to offer something similar to above, but in leather.

I called Filston a few minutes ago actually, and they can make the jacket above in tal size for me, at a 30% over retail up-charge, or $357.50. They can start it mid February, and it will take them 10-12 weeks to complete.

Or, I can ask Peter to make me one, to my size, in leather and have it long before Filston completes it, and (probably) for less money out of pocket.

So, I am still moving forward with this, and welcome any additional comments.

And, for the record, I am planning to use the Filston-style cargo pockets, with a leather face and flap, but Denim bellows to keep them more flexible, like the action-back design.

Keep those ideas coming!

The Filson tin cloth is much heavier than the barbour, I actually can't imagine it wearing out. The web site says that it's "oil finished" I'm not sure how that is different from the barbour's waxed cotton, but I have'nt had any pieces flecking off. I've had the coat two years and have'nt needed to refinish it, although I have a jar of the stuff on the shelf. Filson been around since the california gold rush so I doubt its a copy of the Barbour, I think waxed or oiled cotton duck used to be much more common.

Filson does carry the packer coat in extra long. The packer coat is similar but I haven't seen it in person. I'm 6'1" with long arms and usually get a long coat, but the x-large fits me fine. I bought from a dealer where I could try it on.

You're right about it not breathing real well, but it has to be better than leather. The neat thing about the bellow pockets is that they are really two pockets in one, I'm not sure if I described them well enough.

[Browncoat]

Orvis has a jacket called the Ranger jacket that it sells. I've actually been eyeing it for a while but after reading the reviews regarding its durability (stitching and construction) I passed.

Anyway, the actual design of the jacket seems to incorporate a lot of what has been posted above as "wants".

Not sure how it would look in leather though; most field jackets that I have seen in leather weren't all that attractive.

[JimL]

I know, but with double and (in some cases) triple stitching to reinforce the stress points, and rivets in places like the pocket corners (I hope Peter can do this) it should be fine.

The single-needle tailoring of the Wested Raider's style leaves no room for error- if it is not stitched and finished perfectly, there is a chance of failure. with double ot triple stitching, this failure rate is reduced a bit.

I was also thinking of specifing Kevlar thread, but I think that will rip through the horse hide.

If it was to be a single-needle design, I agree that it is just too fragile. But, among other problems witrh the Raider's design for real world practicality, I hope to address the durability problems as well.

Another problem is the fact that it will be very short-run. In other words, most makers won't even touch a custom design like this (read: entire new pattern) without a lot of cash outlay and/or a huge order being placed. I can work with small quantities (a dozen at a time) and I think Peter is easier to work with like this than other potential jacket makers.

However, if you know of another more durable jacket at the same price point as is typical for Wested, that is willing to do small lots, I am all ears...

Good stuf! Keep it coming!

[JimL]

Orvis has a jacket called the Ranger jacket that it sells.

I'm going to look into this now...

[JimL]

Looked into the Ranger- I have sen that before, and like you, nearly bought it!

I think I may incorporate that Yoke design into my design, as the idea of pack straps not digging in is a good one...

I DON'T like the buttons in place of snaps. That is a bad idea (to me) and one that would quickly anoy if I bought this...

Thanks for making me look at that again however!

[JimL]

The Filson tin cloth is much heavier than the barbour, I actually can't imagine it wearing out.

No, I wouldn't expect it to wear out- the wax treatment actually makes the fabric stronger, and I do beleive it is substantially heavier (closer to a Carhart) than the barbour material, which I would equate to a 300+ thread count sheet material. The Barbour wax is a wax blend, that you heat up and soak into the cloth. It's a pain to re-treat the material actually; it takes about 8 hours to do an entire jacket.

The web site says that it's "oil finished" I'm not sure how that is different from the barbour's waxed cotton, but I have'nt had any pieces flecking off.

They are both an oil/wax blend...

I've had the coat two years and have'nt needed to refinish it, although I have a jar of the stuff on the shelf. Filson been around since the california gold rush so I doubt its a copy of the Barbour, I think waxed or oiled cotton duck used to be much more common.

Yep. It looks like Barbour only started in the 1800's...

http://www.barbour.com/index.cfm?fuseac ... rm=history

Filson does carry the packer coat in extra long. The packer coat is similar but I haven't seen it in person. I'm 6'1" with long arms and usually get a long coat, but the x-large fits me fine. I bought from a dealer where I could try it on.

You're right about it not breathing real well, but it has to be better than leather.

I have both and I dissagree with this. The Barbour (which aparently is even lighter material) gets VERY clammy inside after 10 hours or so outside...

The neat thing about the bellow pockets is that they are really two pockets in one, I'm not sure if I described them well enough.

Oh, the pockets are awesome! I am planning to use these for sure! The front will be leather of course, but the side bellows and divider will be denim material to cut weight and bulkiness... I'm all over those pockets!

[lantzn]

I recommend a "Poacher's Pocket", a pocket inside the back of the jacket. Great place to keep stuff out of the way.

Like the firearm pocket idea, too. Trick there is providing enough support in the structure of the jacket so it doesn't sag out, and that it has sufficient structure that the pistol doesn't "print" through the jacket.

A good spot for that would be inside behind the pocket so you have a couple layers of leather between the gun and outside. It would be cool to have it as a built-in holster made to the gun model.

[lantzn]

Hey Jim,
It's always hard to find a jacket with a large interior map pocket, big enough for a road map or an airline ticket, preferably on the right hand side.
Brian

The optional right hand pocket in the CS jackets from Nowak have a vertical opening and are great for this.

[lantzn]

I like the concealed handgun pocket.

Leather, even with vents, really doesn't work well if it's too hot or wet. If it's going to have a liner for winter it would need to be a pretty baggy jacket without the liner.

I'd recommend a heavy weight waxed cotton, like a Filson tin cloth. I have their field jacket and its as rugged and versatile as any jacket I've seen. I love the front pockets, they're large bellows patch pockets with an internal divider so that each is like two full size pockets inside. The snap for the flaps is on a separate loop so that you can fasten them one handed with gloves on. It also has wool lined hand warmer pockets on the chest. It has a zippered poacher pocket and you can snap on a hood which can be stored in the poacher pocket. The collar is faced with wool and can be snapped up and you can put in either a vest or a jacket made in several thicknesses of wool. The jacket is lined in cotton and has a internal chest pocket, I think it zips but I can't remember off hand.

The waxed tin cloth is extremely tough, maybe more so than leather, and it is more water repellant and breathes better too. It takes a year or so of wear to loosen up. It also is less likely to look out of place than leather.

The only things I'd add that you mentioned are the hidden passport pocket, pistol pocket and the zip up vents. Check out the Filson coats and use them as the start of your design.

http://www.filson.com/product/index.jsp ... age=family

My first leather jacket (non Indy) which I bought in the early 90s and a zip in vest liner. That liner was awesome and extremely warm here in the Pac NW. I removed it in early summer and was able to wear the jacket year round. Our summers can be in the 80s to 90s and drop 30 to 40 degrees at night so this option was very nice.

[JimL]

A good spot for that [firearm pocket] would be inside behind the pocket so you have a couple layers of leather between the gun and outside. It would be cool to have it as a built-in holster made to the gun model.

I have abandoned this idea. I think it will be too complicated to satisfy everyone's need for difering handgun models.

I may put in an extra pocket, that could be used for this purpose, but if it gets too complicated/expensive, this will be the first thing to go.

[JimL]

The optional right hand pocket in the CS jackets from Nowak have a vertical opening and are great for this.

Can you post a picture of the pocket location/configuration?

I think this is a good idea- a pocket about 4-6 inces wide and 12 or so deep, on the right hand side. I think it will be zippered for security too (no point loosing a map!)

[Jens]

Wow, this sounds like you really did some homework on this subject. Interesting ideas you came up with.
I hope you don't mind me asking that kind of expeditions you are going to do? A lot of the features you mentioned above sounds very technical and "gadget"-esque.

Unfortunately I can't provide any idea, but from my personal experiences in travelling and as a member of expeditions, I learned that sometime "less is more". The more equipment you carry (and the more detailed and complicated it becomes) the higher are the chances that something fails ...

This is not meant in an offending way - I'm still impressed by the ideas and features you've chosen for this jacket and maybe your special kind of expedition requires a bit more high technological equipment. I'm curious how the final prototype will look! Good luck and outcome with its development!

[Raider S]

Unfortunately I can't provide any idea, but from my personal experiences in travelling and as a member of expeditions, I learned that sometime "less is more". The more equipment you carry (and the more detailed and complicated it becomes) the higher are the chances that something fails ...

I agree with Jens on this one. Really agree. I spend a couple months a year traveling in fairly remote 3rd world places related to work and have done so for a number of years now. At this point I now carry so little and have learned how much easier things are to deal with.

Kind of like carrying a wallet. When I first had wallets I can remember how big the became with photos, library cards, a subway map, etc., etc. At some point I looked at that and realized it was crazy. From that I went to a simple money clip or a money clip that also holds a couple credit cards. So much better because really, why do you need to carry a graduation photo of a college girlfriend 24/7?

So it's the same with travel. I find I don't need more than could fit in something the size of an Indy bag. But as much as possible I want to leave home anything I absolutely don't need like complicated phones, PDA's, etc.

I'd rather something be made tough and bullet-proof (why not add some kevlar for shrapnel?) than simply have a lot of room for things.

[lantzn]

The optional right hand pocket in the CS jackets from Nowak have a vertical opening and are great for this.

Can you post a picture of the pocket location/configuration?

I think this is a good idea- a pocket about 4-6 inces wide and 12 or so deep, on the right hand side. I think it will be zippered for security too (no point loosing a map!)

The pocket only goes in about the size of your spread out hand just passed the wrist. He could easily build the pouch to fill out all the way to the bottom of the jacket for more room.

[AdaminNYC]

You know, as long as we're talking about Filson, Barbour and oil-skins... I stopped in to Orvis yesterday to look at the Barbour jackets. After flipping through them on the racks for a little while, my hands were oily from their finish. Seems like that would get all over everything.

Anyway, the big thing in an expedition jacket is waterproofing. I know waterproofing leather is a topic of much discussion. I don't know whether lining the thing in Gore-Tex would make any sense. How about just making some of the pockets waterproof. A safe place for my Blackberry when it starts to monsoon.

[interbak]

I'd prefer to see the deep inside pocket cut straight across the top, rather than a vertical "wallet", G-1 style. I've had jackets with deep wallet pockets and it's a pain to reach in around the corner, especially with something long like a map, which is what the pocket is designed for.
As for oilskins/wax cotton, they are very greasy when new, especially in warm weather, but do dry out in time. I bought my Belstaff during Bike Week in Dayton years ago, and it was slimy in 85 degree weather.

Brian

[Holt]

LOL.


just wear this under the Iny jacket and your good to go ;-)

[RCSignals]

I'd prefer to see the deep inside pocket cut straight across the top, rather than a vertical "wallet", G-1 style. I've had jackets with deep wallet pockets and it's a pain to reach in around the corner, especially with something long like a map, which is what the pocket is designed for.
As for oilskins/wax cotton, they are very greasy when new, especially in warm weather, but do dry out in time. I bought my Belstaff during Bike Week in Dayton years ago, and it was slimy in 85 degree weather.

Brian

The nice thing about that pocket on the TN CS is that it is a second pocket. The 'regular' pocket on the other side is top entry and deep. I'm assuming the suggestion for this new adventure jacket is to add it as a secondary pocket. There could even be other purpose inside pockets added, or a zip out utility pocket thingy utilising Holt's suggestion ;-)

[norton]

I recently read something I had to add to this:

"The heaviest Barbour is equal to the lightest Filson."

[AdaminNYC]

I was wandering down Madison Ave yesterday and I saw a Barbour shop, so I stopped in. I asked the guy about the heaviest, warmest coat they had. He kind of looked down his nose at me and said they don't really do heavy, warm coats.

I guess I was looking a little scruffy for Madison Ave in my battered old Schott nylon parka.