Slight Plaiting Separation....should I worry?

ksteryous · Post by **ksteryous** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:01 pm

Hey guys,

Some of you probably remember the issue I had with bad plaiting on an Australian bullwhip, and now I think I'm paranoid, but I wanted to post this pic on the board just to make sure.

Below is a 10ft Indy style bullwhip that I've only had for a few short weeks. Now I've cracked this thing probably thousands of times already, as I've been practicing with it every chance I could get. Below, you can see very minimal, ever so slight separation in the plaiting, just after the ring knot of the handle (where I assume most of the stress gets put on a whip). Since whips are new to me, I'm not exactly sure what I should expect. Should I expect a little daylight to appear between the strands as the whip gets broken in, or should I expect the thing to stay as tight as it was when new? Is this anything to worry about?

This is a high quality whip that's gotten good praise on the board, so this time, it's not an issue with me just buying a cheap, touristy type whip.

Thanks for your help.

Kenton

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:17 pm

Hi,

for me strands hasn't got proper width. Anyway you can't do anything with it, and for me you can use it if you want.

Regards,
Karol

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:37 am

Kenton,
as has been stated already this is the result of the strands being cut too narrow for the size of the whip. If the strands had been cut wider, this would not have happened, not even after 10 years of use. There is nothing that can be done about it now. Try contacting the whipmaker and ask if you can exchange it for another made with wider lace (though I doubt that will work). Bullwhips are tricky to make and are not as simple as they appear. The transition zone needs special attention and some folks don't appreciate that reality quite as it should.

I have whips I made years ago and while they are now well broken in, they show no such gaps in the plaiting.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:37 am

Kenton, While some minor spacing between plaits can be a normal thing even on a well-made whip, that seems a bit excessive. A few different things can cause that type of problem but I agree with Karol and Canuck Digger, the sets look like they where cut too narrow for the overlay in that spot. Unless there is more too it then just the spaces, I doubt this will affect the way the whip performs overall.

I think I know who made that whip though, and I would not hesitate to bring it to their attention. This should be something they strive to avoid on a professionally made whip. Whips do change of course as they are broken in and used and sometimes small spaces open between the plaits, especially on whips where the sets are already cut narrow to fit right next to each other to obtain a smoother look and feel to the overlay, ideally the strands should stay set tight in place next to one another but as long as the spaces between the plaits aren’t more hair or two wide its usually considered acceptable, in this case though I’d consider that unacceptable.

Dan

ksteryous · Post by **ksteryous** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:34 pm

Thanks, everyone, for the information and advice...I guess I was hoping for a somewhat different answer. What's frustrating is that I really took great time and care making the decision of where to purchase this bullwhip. This one had gotten good reviews here, and even though I imagined that it might not be as good as a Delcarpio or Morgan (and some others), I did think I was buying a very high quality whip.

Now, though, what's even more frustrating is that I just went to the maker's website, and I see the message "I have now retired from whipmaking and all things Indy related."

What?! It seems as though I'm stuck, and there's really not much I can do about it. Not very comforting knowing that I spent a little more than $450 on this whip.

Oh well, I guess the only thing to do now is use it anyway...if it gets worse, it gets worse, but putting it in the closet isn't an option. At least I'll enjoy it while I can.

One more question...is there a chance that it will level off and not get any worse? I just made a brief video yesterday with this whip (in slow motion)...would some of you whip experts watch it and let me know if perhaps I'm being too forceful or strong with it? I guess I wouldn't think you would have to 'baby' a good whip, but again, I've literally only been at this for about 3-4 weeks (I also realize you shouldn't have to force the whip either, there's a balance).

Anyway, thanks for all the help.

Here is the video....

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:04 pm

Well I don't know if it will level off as you say, but it isn't going to get any better that's for sure!

I really feel bad for you; it ***** that you should have this sort of experience with your first (or is it second) whip. Believe me, not all whips are made this way and I only hope it doesn't put you off of whipcracking as a result.

Well Bernardo is a good whipmaker who has a very good understanding of what American-style bullwhips are all about. There are others of course, and many produce fine and long-lasting bullwhips.

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:32 pm

I wouldn't get too worried over the separation of the strands at the transition. The main thing is that the bellies and bolsters under the transition don't start to break down. If the whip still feels firm at the transition, you're okay.

Also, I'd say that Indy-style whips aren't the greatest for doing multiple-cracking routines, especially since multiple cracking puts a lot more stress on the transition. That's what's causing the gaps.

If you decided to use this whip just for doing the flick, where you can still do targeting and wraps, you won't put as much stress on the transition.

-Adam

ksteryous · Post by **ksteryous** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:04 pm

Canuck Digger wrote: I really feel bad for you; it ***** that you should have this sort of experience with your first (or is it second) whip.

Canuck, it is indeed my first, that other Australian bullwhip is my sister's, so yes, this bullwhip is my first (sigh). It still feels very solid, though, so I'm going to try and not fret over the separation.

winrichwhips wrote: Also, I'd say that Indy-style whips aren't the greatest for doing multiple-cracking routines, especially since multiple cracking puts a lot more stress on the transition. That's what's causing the gaps.

If you decided to use this whip just for doing the flick, where you can still do targeting and wraps, you won't put as much stress on the transition.

-Adam

Thanks, Adam, I actually have a Joe Strain 6ft stockwhip coming soon, so perhaps that will be better for multiple cracks...I definitely agree that multiple cracks certainly is no "walk in the park" with a 10ft Indy whip, but learning on this 10ft should only make it easier when I get other whips (at least that's my hope).

Thanks again guys, for all the advice.

Kenton

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:34 pm

Now that the strands have separated if the plaiting is still tight and the belly is solid it shouldn’t get much worse. I’ve seen this happen on other whips and they still work fine.

From your video, your action might be a bit forceful but your relatively new at this so that’s expected. It's true that Indy style bullwhips are not the best types of whips to use for that type of multiple cracking, It can be hard on that junction between the handle and the thong but in my experience that type of breakdown/gaps in the overlay plating usually takes a lot longer then just a few weeks to form, I still suspect the strands where cut a bit too narrow or the hide used had some stretching or shrinkage issues.

Pagey seems to “retire” a lot, but every time he has come back and made more whips to sell. I would still contact him directly “retired” or not, but thats just my 2 cents

Dan

ksteryous · Post by **ksteryous** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:45 pm

Thanks, Dan. I have (just today) sent him an email along with the pic inquiring if this is anything I should be worried about, but the only email address I have is the one listed on his whip website.

The last I saw were the issues with his TN jacket, but I thought that got patched up...I guess I missed anything that happened after that. What tipped me off that something might be wrong was that a PM I sent him a couple weeks ago regarding the whip is still sitting in my 'Outbox'...and then I checked his website and saw that message.

Oh well, no worries. It is what it is.

Kenton