Not meaning to be harsh, I just state my thoughts. From what I can tell there was alot of effort put in to get Wings to make this jacket, and it's an admirable effort. I just don't see the point to it, that's all.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't understand your original mindset in wanted to get them to make a ToD jacket again. Was it A) because you were obsessed about having Wings make one solely because they offered some to the production of the movie? or B) you thought they would jump at the opportunity to cater to some obsessed fans to produce a jacket they allegedly made 25 years ago, or C) you thought they would actually care enough to make a replica to the exacting standards of some on this board?
Anyway, I still say Wested beat them to it, it looks spot-on, and I just don't see the motive to get US Wings to make one when you have a fantastic replica already in production by Wested, that's all. Sure , Wings' jackets are well made. However in the grand scheme of all things Indy, they had extremely little to do with the movies, ( perhaps far less than most believe as well), and Leather Consessionaires (i.e. Wested) were the originals.
As far as the work you've put in, that's cool...good job....just puzzling to me that's all.
Wings Temple of Doom jacket--now in production
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Mike, Indydawg
it almost sounds like you are talking about wested fans the way you describe your A,B, and C
us wings came out with this offer here on the board before wested did,all because sgt.Hack wanted us to have a SA jacket from the original maker. ;-)
I was not obsessed with this. non of us were...I just helped crismans out....who helped us wings out...
us wings came out with this offer here on the board before wested did,all because sgt.Hack wanted us to have a SA jacket from the original maker. ;-)
I was not obsessed with this. non of us were...I just helped crismans out....who helped us wings out...
-
Kt Templar
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 4715
- Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:32 am
- Location: London.
Very sadly, both projects seem to be born out of Noels passing. This was announced by Peter on the 10th of June 08. Within that week Peter had approached Noels relatives in view to helping them clear the remainder of Noels stock in the most timely manner that would benefit both the family and the fans.
I talked with him within a few days of the 10th and respectfully asked if he might get hold of the jacket, he said he'd try but didn't know if he wanted to replicate it.
On the 14th Peter asked any members here to contact him to clear up any un-delivered items.
On 19th July Holt got confirmation from Peter that he would be making the NH replica.
All the above dates are in these forums.
I don't know exactly the date that the Wings jacket started.
I talked with him within a few days of the 10th and respectfully asked if he might get hold of the jacket, he said he'd try but didn't know if he wanted to replicate it.
On the 14th Peter asked any members here to contact him to clear up any un-delivered items.
On 19th July Holt got confirmation from Peter that he would be making the NH replica.
All the above dates are in these forums.
I don't know exactly the date that the Wings jacket started.
Ahh. Well, if he came to *you* wanting us to have a more SA jacket, then the question surfaces....exactly why is he not interested in actually listening to you guys and making it the correct way? The answer is ...he's willing to make it SA...but only insofar as he doesn't have to put forth any more effort or money. Which is understandable, but not in line with his real desire to give you screen accuracy.
Not really a bargain. If I had approached him to do this, it would have been "make it identical to your original patterns for the film 100%, or don't bother" in a nice wording of some sort. Though I'm sure they don't have the original spec, or they would not be trying to alter a present jacket to make the look. The prototype, leather choice aside, has a long way to go.
I'm not a 'only Wested" guy, but geez...look at what Peter made! 100% SA and if some don't think so...what are you smoking so I can have some?!?
anyhow, good luck.....I just won't be buying anything Wings has to offer because Peter beat them to it with the real deal. I'll be happy with my Wested ToD's for sure....but to each his own. Enjoy them when you get them...
Not really a bargain. If I had approached him to do this, it would have been "make it identical to your original patterns for the film 100%, or don't bother" in a nice wording of some sort. Though I'm sure they don't have the original spec, or they would not be trying to alter a present jacket to make the look. The prototype, leather choice aside, has a long way to go.
I'm not a 'only Wested" guy, but geez...look at what Peter made! 100% SA and if some don't think so...what are you smoking so I can have some?!?
anyhow, good luck.....I just won't be buying anything Wings has to offer because Peter beat them to it with the real deal. I'll be happy with my Wested ToD's for sure....but to each his own. Enjoy them when you get them...
Last edited by MacGyver on Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kt Templar wrote:Very sadly, both projects seem to be born out of Noels passing. This was announced by Peter on the 10th of June 08. Within that week Peter had approached Noels relatives in view to helping them clear the remainder of Noels stock in the most timely manner that would benefit both the family and the fans.
I talked with him within a few days of the 10th and respectfully asked if he might get hold of the jacket, he said he'd try but didn't know if he wanted to replicate it.
On the 14th Peter asked any members here to contact him to clear up any un-delivered items.
On 19th July Holt got confirmation from Peter that he would be making the NH replica.
All the above dates are in these forums.
I don't know exactly the date that the Wings jacket started.
I OBJECT YOUR HONOR
Last edited by Holt on Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
RCSignals
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3665
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:32 pm
- Location: Twin Galaxies
Holt already answered your questions. Also if you look back, and not too many months, through the threads the whole story is there. You don't need to be confused.MacGyver wrote:Not meaning to be harsh, I just state my thoughts. From what I can tell there was alot of effort put in to get Wings to make this jacket, and it's an admirable effort. I just don't see the point to it, that's all.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't understand your original mindset in wanted to get them to make a ToD jacket again. Was it A) because you were obsessed about having Wings make one solely because they offered some to the production of the movie? or B) you thought they would jump at the opportunity to cater to some obsessed fans to produce a jacket they allegedly made 25 years ago, or C) you thought they would actually care enough to make a replica to the exacting standards of some on this board?
Anyway, I still say Wested beat them to it, it looks spot-on, and I just don't see the motive to get US Wings to make one when you have a fantastic replica already in production by Wested, that's all. Sure , Wings' jackets are well made. However in the grand scheme of all things Indy, they had extremely little to do with the movies, ( perhaps far less than most believe as well), and Leather Consessionaires (i.e. Wested) were the originals.
As far as the work you've put in, that's cool...good job....just puzzling to me that's all.
There is no 'allegedly' to Cooper having made the ToD jackets.
This wings version exists. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I suspect a fair number of people here will buy both, and be happy that these jackets are available and they can.
Last edited by RCSignals on Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've posted this before but maybe it needs repeating. I stumbled onto this totally by accident. I posted in a thread that I thought it would be nice if US Wings made a Temple jacket since they made (through Cooper) some jackets for that movie. We were able to get a jacket from the other original vendors so I thought that it be nice to have the set. ;-) Hack (through a member here) posted a reply to me and a few other people who commented. I couldn't tell through his message if he had misread me so I emailed him to clarify. Through emails, he offered to make 100 jackets if I could get him a prototype.
I had reservations on doing it since I was a new member but finally decided to put my money where my mouth was and began the project. Holt apparently heard my drowning gasps and (also due to the fact that he really loves the details of these jackets) offered to help. Neither one of us knew how far Wings wanted to go so we went as SA as possible. As as been said numerous times, Wings isn't a custom shop so I'm pleased they worked with us as much as they did.
KT and I have compared dates before and from that, determined that Peter was negotiating with Howard's family before I started the project. But I didn't know about that until later so the two projects began pretty much independently of each other.
And really what does it matter? How many different companies now produce Raiders jackets? We've went from zero Temple jackets to two good selections, each offering something different. I plan on getting both. If one or the other doesn't appeal to you, my advice would be not to buy it.
I had reservations on doing it since I was a new member but finally decided to put my money where my mouth was and began the project. Holt apparently heard my drowning gasps and (also due to the fact that he really loves the details of these jackets) offered to help. Neither one of us knew how far Wings wanted to go so we went as SA as possible. As as been said numerous times, Wings isn't a custom shop so I'm pleased they worked with us as much as they did.
KT and I have compared dates before and from that, determined that Peter was negotiating with Howard's family before I started the project. But I didn't know about that until later so the two projects began pretty much independently of each other.
And really what does it matter? How many different companies now produce Raiders jackets? We've went from zero Temple jackets to two good selections, each offering something different. I plan on getting both. If one or the other doesn't appeal to you, my advice would be not to buy it.
Yep, I have my share of Westeds. Love em. Yep, they ARE 100% screen accurate....they look just like they do on film. Whether this one or that one does not have an X-box stitching or has 1/16th an inch less pocket flap width is the realm of the super-obsessed, which I am just not one.Indiana Holt wrote:MacGyver wrote: "make it identical to your original patterns for the film 100%, or don't bother". ...
I'm going to bet you dont have a wested raiders right?
cuase that one for sure is NOT 100% SA...
so why bother getting one of those? ;-)
Life is just too short to worry about stitch count, pocket flap width, collar
stands millimeter measurements, etc. That's "chasing the dragon".
It's a prison of your own making. You have the key...just let it go....breathe...
)
You seem to be digging yourself into a hole with your comments. You trash this Wings prototype for not being as accurate as the Wested ToD but yet accuracy isn't as important to you as it is to others? Um, okay...
Simple fact is that if you rewind to about May/June, there was no ToD. The ToD that Wested had previously sold was just a Raiders in a Tall/Long version.
Now you have two vendors to choose from. And one if not both of these vendors will not offer these jackets indefinitely.
If the Wested version had not come out as it did, members here would be chomping at the bit to get in line to order one of these before they were gone.
I think there's been a greater effort to make a SA ToD in the past 3 month then there has been in the last 10+ years if not longer.
Simple fact is that if you rewind to about May/June, there was no ToD. The ToD that Wested had previously sold was just a Raiders in a Tall/Long version.
Now you have two vendors to choose from. And one if not both of these vendors will not offer these jackets indefinitely.
If the Wested version had not come out as it did, members here would be chomping at the bit to get in line to order one of these before they were gone.
I think there's been a greater effort to make a SA ToD in the past 3 month then there has been in the last 10+ years if not longer.
Not digging into any hole. The fact remains that looking at a good Wested, then looking at the movie, you can see that it's the same jacket all around. If you go much deeper into what your eyes THINK you see on a DVD or film, you're chasing a figment of your imagination which may or may not be true. Only Ford, Spielberg, the wardrobe masters, or someone in possession of the original jackets would know the real truth.Browncoat wrote:You seem to be digging yourself into a hole with your comments.
Where I draw the line, and some do not, is that I will not count stitches, ask for 1 mm more length here or there, etc. Noone has ever came up to me and said "WOW thats a Temple of Doom jacket, isn't it?? Oh, wait it's about 1/16th in. too short in the yoke, and the collar's a bit off".
Just saying there is a difference between a healthy desire for screen accuracy and a...non-healthy obsession with screen accuracy down to nanometer scales... these images some have posted of pocket flaps and jacket shot of Ford with photoshop lines drawn on them showing the *exact* length from one point to another is ....beyond comical.
And remember the 'screen accurate Harrisons boxer shorts reproduction' thread? Let's not even go there LOL
Remember, there IS a cure for OCD.... easily fixed with simple pills
All in good fun guys.
-
Chewbacca Jones
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3878
- Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:17 am
- Location: Somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse
- Contact:
Mac, I own a Wested Raiders, and I'm looking at a photo of somebody else's in comparison. Mine looks similar to the screen used jackets, but far from accurate. The picture (and I've seen that one is person) is almost perfect, except the pockets are too big in relation to the rest of the jacket. I can tell that just by eye, no measuring. Having been to three summits and seeing numerous Wested Raiders jackets, I can tell you, no two look the same. I am very nearly the opposite of a stitch nazi, so I'm confident in saying these things. All I want is a nice Indy jacket, but my ocd (for real) goes well beyond gear, and I just tend to notice little differences. They don't bug me, I just see 'em.
That said, I've ever seen one Wested I didn't like, and I can't recall who's it was. But it actually looked like a cheap nock-off to me.
The point is, 100% accuracy in an single jacket is an impossibility. Every jacket on screen was slightly different, even! We have official word on that. As for ToD, there are so many inconsistencies in that movie's gear, it's amazing nobody has found an actual A-2 in a wide shot yet!
That said, I've ever seen one Wested I didn't like, and I can't recall who's it was. But it actually looked like a cheap nock-off to me.
The point is, 100% accuracy in an single jacket is an impossibility. Every jacket on screen was slightly different, even! We have official word on that. As for ToD, there are so many inconsistencies in that movie's gear, it's amazing nobody has found an actual A-2 in a wide shot yet!
MacGyver wrote:
If I had approached him to do this, it would have been "make it identical to your original patterns for the film 100%, or don't bother" ...
MacGyver wrote:
Where I draw the line, and some do not, is that I will not count stitches, ask for 1 mm more length here or there, etc. Noone has ever came up to me and said "WOW thats a Temple of Doom jacket, isn't it?? Oh, wait it's about 1/16th in. too short in the yoke, and the collar's a bit off".
.
let me get this right.....
you said you are not obsessed by details,but still you want us wings to make the tofd jacket down to the last stitch..if not,then dont bother with it.....
if you are not super obsessed the just get the us wings temple jacket and be happy with it then.you just said yourself you dont look for an inch less pocket flap or whatever.........they look just like they do on film. Whether this one or that one does not have an X-box stitching or has 1/16th an inch less pocket flap width is the realm of the super-obsessed, which I am just not one
geez man,your arguing with yourself..just take a good look about what you just said above....
carry on...Im out of this discussion..it gets TOO confusing..
Last edited by Holt on Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.
I think it's great that there's another source for a TOD jacket. TOD jackets aren't my favorite style, but I know many prefer them or like to have the variety. I was hard on US Wings for a delivery problem in the past, but I've seen some great stuff come out of their shop. Having them make a TOD is just plain good for the buyers. Wested's looks terrific too - I particularly like that they're starting to get a bit more grain.
I think someone said we're living in the golden age of Indy jacket availability. Lots or makers, each with their own strengths and we can each indulge our personal preferences for pockets, collars, pleats, gussets, grain, etc. The more the better from that point of view.
I think someone said we're living in the golden age of Indy jacket availability. Lots or makers, each with their own strengths and we can each indulge our personal preferences for pockets, collars, pleats, gussets, grain, etc. The more the better from that point of view.
I wholeheartedly agree with you.Tibor wrote:
I think someone said we're living in the golden age of Indy jacket availability. Lots or makers, each with their own strengths and we can each indulge our personal preferences for pockets, collars, pleats, gussets, grain, etc. The more the better from that point of view.
-
Andymac84
- Expeditionary Hero
- Posts: 2066
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:08 pm
- Location: Vilshofen - Germany
- Contact:
Hey guys,
does it came in the authentic brown lambskin like the prototype or with the leather from the sample?
Antique lamb sample: http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q421 ... 150094.jpg
does it came in the authentic brown lambskin like the prototype or with the leather from the sample?
Antique lamb sample: http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q421 ... 150094.jpg
-
DR Ulloa
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3257
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:28 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
- Contact:
This jacket looks awesome. I have been very happy with my USW Blue Label but have been wanting another Indy jacket in a darker brown also. This more than fits the bill. Its also nice to get it in lamb as the Blue Label was in the antique cow that this prototype is made from. Don't get me wrong, I love the cowhide, but the lamb just looks right.
Is $300 the set price or is that what Sgt. Hack was is estimating? Something in that ballpark is great.
Holt, Crismans,
. Very good work.
Dave
Is $300 the set price or is that what Sgt. Hack was is estimating? Something in that ballpark is great.
Holt, Crismans,
. Very good work.Dave
Crisman/Holt
So, is there anything else besides the zipper and hide that will be different on the production model?
Also, do you have any indication from the SGT of a time frame for the availability of this jacket?
I like the look of the sample hide. can't wait to see this jacket in that hide....
C3
So, is there anything else besides the zipper and hide that will be different on the production model?
Also, do you have any indication from the SGT of a time frame for the availability of this jacket?
I like the look of the sample hide. can't wait to see this jacket in that hide....
C3
The zipper placement and hide are the only things that are changing (well, through a miscommunication on my part, the prototype didn't have an inside pocket, but the production model will have one ;-) ).coronado3 wrote:Crisman/Holt
So, is there anything else besides the zipper and hide that will be different on the production model?
Also, do you have any indication from the SGT of a time frame for the availability of this jacket?
I like the look of the sample hide. can't wait to see this jacket in that hide....
C3
As for a time frame, I haven't heard anything yet. I did send the prototype back to Wings today so hopefully production will start soon. I agree on the hide. I think the "wow" factor of this jacket will really increase once it's in the antique lamb.
-
DR Ulloa
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3257
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:28 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
- Contact:
This may have been touched upon earlier, but will the sizing be the same as the Blue Label? I don't mean Small, Medium, Large, etc... I mean will it be a roomy fitting jacket or will it be a more snug fit?
Dave
Dave
Last edited by DR Ulloa on Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Chewbacca Jones
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3878
- Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:17 am
- Location: Somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse
- Contact:
Cannot wait to get my hands on it... 
-
Dutch_jones
- Museum Curator
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:59 pm
- Location: Holland
- Contact:
-
Kt Templar
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 4715
- Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:32 am
- Location: London.
-
ReturningSon
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: Fullerton, CA
-
RCSignals
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3665
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:32 pm
- Location: Twin Galaxies
Kt Templar wrote:My sleeve length is usually between 22" and 23" and as you know I'm 5/6th scale!jacksdad wrote:wha tis normal in sleeve length, I'm 5"8 182 pounds, and I measuredmy wested and my sleeve length is 23" and fits right.oDo I have short arms ?
You sure you are not 2/3 scale? 
just kidding ;-)
Smaller pockets, different collar stand/storm flap configuration, European zipper placement, tapered fit in the body and sleeves, the back panel now meets the shoulder seam instead of the normal "gap", and more SA strap placement.Dutch_jones wrote:I'm wondering, what exactly a part from the pocket placement is different to the regular USW jacket ?
-
blueoakleyz
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 628
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:57 am