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Ok, after making a few paracord bullwhips, I've been dying to try my hand at a leather bullwhip. I know kangaroo hide is the best to get, but it's a bit out of my current price range, so I'm gonna have to settle for lower quality hide.
While searching around for sources, I found this site (this page in particular): http://www.kyleatherandhide.com/hides.htm
I'm hoping that some of you in the know might have a look at the site and tell me if this would be a good place to start for the leather...if so, how much whould you recommend I get..and of which kind? I really know NOTHING about leather and hides and all that (too much of a city boy, I guess) and I want to make sure I don't waste alot of time and effort and money on the wrong thing.
Thanks in advance!
PS...another page from the same sitehttp://www.kyleatherandhide.com/bulk.htm refers to bulk leather..showing 15 - 18 lbs rolls and 25 lb bundles (and laces at the very bottom of the screen)...any opinions as to wether or not the bundles, rolls or laces would be a good choice? Would there even be enough to work with?
Last edited by Ramsey37 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't know if it a language barrier, but you do not want splits here. On a split in the U.S. it will usually have 2 suede sides.
This should do pretty well be advised it is pretty strechy.. One hide sould get you 1 whip. http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/prod ... er=9155-00
Ron
One hide should work for one whip, huh? That sounds great for a beginner like me. *lol* Any suggestions on what size hide (how many square feet, that is)?
Ramsey, the link that Ron gave you is good leather for a whip. I have made several whips using it. But it will frustrate you some because of breakage when plaiting (but that's all part of the learning experience ) I use it for bolsters now but it will also make a nice looking overlay.
Kyleather can be a good source also, but I would recommend you calling him and telling him what you are looking for rather than just ordering off the site. He may have some kip in stock and if he does that price may be better than Tandy. I have ordered leather from him in the past and if I remember correctly, Adam has also bought from him before. He may have some veg tan leather other than kip that would work for a whip, just to practice with. Switching to leather can get expensive fast if you aren't careful.
rjallen70 wrote:That is what I thought Kiscien...translators dont always work.
If he ordered a split here he would have gotten suede.
It is side. 50% of a cow.
Ron
Your both right, Karol is correct in that a split in Europe has one flesh side the leather is split to create even hides, side it would appear is the same ie:- half a cow/calf...Suede in Europe is just called that *Suede*...tis like speaking two languages sometimes sheeesshhh
Ron is absolutely right pointing you towards Kip to learn with, it's good leather the other one you may want to consider is goat skin this is very very cheap here in Europe at abour 75pence per sqft which at todays exchange rate equates to 1 dollat 22 cents...
Kip is from adolecent cows. Not so small as a calf.
Ron
Also...My Tandy is willing to negotiate sometimes. Be sure to ask for the "sale" price from a while back.
Ron
Hi I thought my recent experience in this matter might prove helpfull.
Kip can work but you can't buy any cheap or second grade hide if you use kip. Cowhides heal over from bites and scratches and they are harder to see, but unfortunately are not as strong. So what this means is that unless you chexk for EVERY single bite mark and tick mark, you run a very high risk of having one on a lace at some point, and if you plait tight like I do, as you pull on the strand, it will stretch the leather and where the tick bites are, it will cause a micro-tear which, if you don't stop pulling and cut the tear out, will continue to tear until the strand just breaks appart.
My advice to you is spend the money. Buy the best side of kip you can find. Don't bother with any second-run or third grade sides, these WILL break and this will end up being more hassle than it's worth. Just get yourself prime leather and spend the time at the store examining it. Bend down, get your nose in there and really LOOK, don't just pass it over quick. Look at every square inch of that hide before you buy it. Turn it over look for discoloration, knife marks, scratches, tick marks, uneven thickness, holes etc. Run your hands over it, FEEL it with your hands, they will tell you just as much as your eyes can. Don't be shy about it, after all you are spending hard-earned money on it and you should be as sure as you can that it will fit your needs.
4-5oz is a good weight for kip for plaiting. I use slightly thinner ones for bolsters, but you don't want it too thin for plaiting, this is after all cowhide, not kangaroo.
A good trick if you do spot any tick marks or scratches, is to circle them with a pen. this way you are sure to not miss them when you cut your strands and can cut around them.
Now cowhides or sides, have weak points just like kangaroo hides, but they are in slightly different spots. Once you've trimed your hide of the rough edges, you should cut a test strand around the hide, or at least as far around the side as you think you are going to be cutting strands, and test it out for weak spots by stretching it between your hands, or by tying one end to a solidly anchored hook and pulling. Pull firmly, but don,t tug or jerk. You want your test pull to be at least as strong as the pull you will be putting on the lace during plaiting, otherwise the expercise is pointless isn't it?
Once you've trimmed out all the weak spots, start cutting out your bellies.
Once you've stretched and skived your strands, give the entire set of strands a good going over with your plaiting soap. Kip this thickness will take some time to absorb the oils in the plaiting soap and if you just put it on prior to plaiting, it may be wet on the surface, but it will still be dry on the inside and this will help in causing tears. Now when I say wet, I don,t mean water wet, I mean grease wet. If you don't have any plaiting soap, you can always use leather conditionner like Fiebing's Aussie Leather Conditionner, but I really encourage you to make yourself a batch of plaiting soap; it makes all the difference in the world when plaiting and is nothing like conditionner. It's just magical is what it is! Anyway the point is that in my experience with kip, you are better off taking your time and properly pre-greasing your strands before you start plaiting.
As you plait, keep an eye out for micro-tears and if you see any forming on the strand's edges, cut them out as soon as you notice them forming.
That's about it for now.
There is always the option of using a thicker leather like latigo or redhide. This will mean you may have to alter tyour approach to construction (you may not be able to use 2 plaited bellies AND 2 bolsters), but the leather is stronger than thin kip...
Good luck,
Excellent info, thanks Franco. What would 4-5 oz equate to roughly in mm thickness of the leather? I can get 1.2-1.5 mm thick kip here in Australia that comes from Spain. I haven't made a whip with it yet but it seems great leather - very clean and free of blemishes.
JMObi wrote:Excellent info, thanks Franco. What would 4-5 oz equate to roughly in mm thickness of the leather? I can get 1.2-1.5 mm thick kip here in Australia that comes from Spain. I haven't made a whip with it yet but it seems great leather - very clean and free of blemishes.
Sounds like you have the right stuff JMObi on the very very rare occasions I'm talked into making a Kip whip I use Grade A english Kip that is 1,2 to 1.4 thick, I even split it to even it out after I've stretched it with no problems.........
Come a good 18 inches up from the belly and cut this off in a straight line parallel with the cut at the top, round the corners off and then this is the section you should use to cut your lace....the other bit use for building cores and cutting out bolsters.....nothing will go to waste.....
I'll be taking the lazy man option after christmas and dropping Skip over at Handmade Whips an email, I want a Latigo whip and it doesn't seem I'm ever going to get time to do myself one
Thanks Tony for this advice. If you cut the lace from the rectangle of good kip leather remaining (after cutting 18" above the stretchy part), this would mean that soon you will be cutting around fairly tight corners once you have gone round the hide a few times. Is it difficult to cut the strands neatly when going around the tight spots? This is why I've been wary of attempting to make a whip from kip so far.
In the past when whip making I've always tried to cut strands beginning with an approximate circle or egg shape (with roohide), but with kip I suppose it is different.
JMObi wrote:Thanks Tony for this advice. If you cut the lace from the rectangle of good kip leather remaining (after cutting 18" above the stretchy part), this would mean that soon you will be cutting around fairly tight corners once you have gone round the hide a few times. Is it difficult to cut the strands neatly when going around the tight spots? This is why I've been wary of attempting to make a whip from kip so far.
In the past when whip making I've always tried to cut strands beginning with an approximate circle or egg shape (with roohide), but with kip I suppose it is different.
You just keep rounding the corners off as you go if they become a little tight the same as you do with Roo or any leather.....
. I'm not using translators 
