Re-Tightening the Braid???...with pics

ksteryous · Post by **ksteryous** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:14 am

This is an Australian style bullwhip, and after cracking this whip thousands of times, the braiding near the handle is loosening up quite a bit. Do I need to worry, or is this just making the whip better/more broken in?

Is there any way to re-tighten the braid...maybe by wetting it and letting it dry in the sun?

What can be done, or should I even be worried?

Thanks,
Kenton

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:40 pm

Hi,

those are mistakes in plaiting, and you can do nothing ecxcept re plait your whip.

Wetting will make this leather dry, and easy to broke. Nothing more

Regards,
Karol

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:52 pm

Pretty much what Kiscien said here.

It could have happened for numerous reasons. Cracking your whip too hard, long handles usually have that issue, transition wasn't stiff enough, and or the whip was poorly made. You can't fix that and don't try. You'll loosen it up putting water on it and then you'll end up drying it out. You'll have to have it re-plaited and that will cost ya and it's not really worth it.

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:08 pm

Unless you can get the original manufacturer to recognize that it is an error in plaiting and offer to redo it for you for a smaller fee.

I would try that first.

ksteryous · Post by **ksteryous** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:56 pm

Well, finding the original maker probably isn't an option....my sister picked this whip up in Australia when she visited there about 8 years ago.

Am I safe in assuming that continuing to use the whip is only going to make it worse? And so should I put the whip up, and not crack it anymore, or just keep using it until if falls apart?

Indiana Williams · Post by **Indiana Williams** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:09 pm

looks like the whip has some pits in that area. Have you been cracking it on rough surfaces? Yes, if you continue to crack it will make it worse. Get in touch with some of the whipmakers around here(like Joe Strain or Bernardo Del Carpio) and see what they would charge you for a replait. Then you can decide if its worth it or not.
Best Regards,
Joe

ksteryous · Post by **ksteryous** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:15 pm

Indiana Williams wrote:looks like the whip has some pits in that area. Have you been cracking it on rough surfaces?
Best Regards,
Joe

No, only my grassy backyard...not sure how the pits got there. Those pics are up close to the handle. It's actually my sister's whip, and it is 8 years old, but I've had it for the past few weeks, and it's been cracked more in the last few weeks than it has in the last 8 years combined.

Thanks for all the input, guys.

Kenton

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:50 pm

Kenton,
Oooh boy! I feel for you.

If I'm right, this happened because the strands were cut too narrow for the belly of the whip, and as such, it isn't so much a PLAITING mistake, as it is a MANUFACTURING mistake. Again, if I'm right, there is nothing re-plaiting will fix here, at best it would buy you time before this happened again. It's just plain 'ol math here.

My advice to you is to keep the whip well maintained; grease it every so often, keep it clean and out of direct sun but not in a cold, damp place so that mildew won't set in. But I would definately stop using it. Consider it's working days as over and offer it a place of rest worthy of it's faithful years of service. After all, it's not the whip's fault, it was made that way.

Time to get another...
Cheers,

Franco

ksteryous · Post by **ksteryous** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:00 pm

Canuck Digger wrote:Kenton,
Time to get another...
Cheers,

Franco

Well, fortunately, I've got a 6ft stockwhip coming from Joe Strain in a week or two, and I've got a 10ft Indy that's loads of fun...it just wears me out!

Canuck Digger wrote:After all, it's not the whip's fault, it was made that way.

Is there any way it could have been the whipcracker's fault? Now, what to tell my sister....hmmm.

Kenton

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:01 pm

Hi,

I think you can use this whip without boring yourself. Those mistake are made by the maker not by you.

First two pictures are showing you bad tighting and bad wide of laces, third is only bad tight. It happens sometimes, when you left unfinished whip for a night or another brake. When start plaiting again you can tight it bad in place when you finished before. Or you simply hit something with whip(on the surface are quiet "nice" damages

. You could hit something, and laces were tug out a bit(pic. 3).

Regards,
Karol

ksteryous · Post by **ksteryous** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:14 pm

BullWhipBorton, I think you hit the nail on the head with relation to the transition of the handle to the thong just not being able to hold up. I would also bet that this whip was geared more for the tourist than the rigors of thousands of cracks.

Anyway, as you requested, here are a couple more pics...one that shows the whole whip, and a couple more that show the stress points of the handle/thong transition which is where the loose plaiting is occurring.

edit: my eyes must be fooling me...there really was a post by BullWhipBorton with a lot of good information...

JMObi · Post by **JMObi** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:11 am

If you keep using it the belly leather will probably break down even more. I agree that the strands are too narrow. That's an interesting point made above about long-handled bullwhips.

If your cracking style results in a lot of flex at the transition you could try a bullwhip with a heavily reinforced transition.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:33 am

I double posted, I thought I only deleted one of the replies before I logged out but I must have gotten them both

Here is the post again.

Hi Kenton, Can you post a photo of the whole whip? I’d like to see it if possible.

Unfortunately wetting the whip and letting it dry in the sun will only dry out the leather, weaken it and possibly cause the individual strands to shrink, widening the gaps even more.

Do you notice if the the whip flexing sharply at the point where the plaiting is separating? While I can’t say for sure what’s going on with that bullwhip with out actually seeing it in person, based on my experience and from the photos and what you have described, I strongly suspect what’s happening is that the transition from the handle to the thong is being overstressed from the sharp flexing that occurs in that area of the whip and that this is causing the plaiting to separate and pull apart. It’s more then just poor plaiting, although that is a part of it. I wouldn’t blame yourself what’s going on, its more how the whip was made then what your doing with it, unless you’re really beating the #### out of it, which after seeing your previous videos I don’t think you are.

While I don’t know where your sister bought the whip, I strongly suspect that this bullwhip was made more for the tourist trade, then as a professionally made bullwhip built to stand up to the constant rigors of use. Like in the U.S. and Mexico, many Australian bullwhips that are sold through the mass-market outlets, are made basically as souvenir whips by anonymous whip makers. While they look nice enough on the outside, and even crack fairly for the most part to those who don’t know better, in order to cut down on cost, the “whip makers” making them cut corners on the construction. They use lower quality kangaroo hides for the overlay, (thin, stretchy, riddled with blemishes). The laces will often be cut unevenly with some noticeably wider then others and they are left un skived to save time. They are mass produced so they pretty much just knock one out after another.

The worst part is these types of whips just don’t have it where it counts, in the belly construction. There is an old Australian saying, “A whip is like a man, no guts no good” and I think that’s what’s really going on here. I have a feeling the handle foundation and transition zone between the handle and the thong on that whip wasn’t built up properly. This is one of the most stressed areas on a bullwhip and the sharp flexing that naturally occurs there is just wearing the transition down.

Now this is not always intentional as in many cases these “whip makers” just don’t know how to make a bullwhip, they are trained to make stock whips, which are a very different animal and when they apply those techniques to making a bullwhip, they run in to trouble.

Unfortunately ( at least as far as I know) there is little can be done. You can continue to use the whip but the problem will continue to get worse over time, then again Some people really like that loose thong right off the handle. Re-plaiting the whip would probably not be practical or effective, as even if you where to have the overlay re plaited as tightly as possible, you’d still run into the same problem eventually with out rebuilding the guts of the whip, the belly, in which case your better off just buying a new whip all together. Sorry I don’t have better news for you, in the mean time just keep it well dressed and looked after wheather you use it or not, and on the bright side though you won’t run into this with Joe Strains whips.

Dan

Thanks for the added photos.

In general most would consider the stress between the handle and thong greater on short handled bullwhips, in comparison with longer handled bullwhips which is one of the reasons it’s not usually recommended to do heavy volley work with Indy style whips.