15/888

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:18 pm

As from the first pictures posted of the Indy I, the leather appears to be the main sticky point. Some people that have seen it personally love it, some not as much. I don't know that statistics play into it other than those concerning leather preference (which I believe Newton did the first serious work with).

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:37 am

crismans wrote:As from the first pictures posted of the Indy I, the leather appears to be the main sticky point. Some people that have seen it personally love it, some not as much. I don't know that statistics play into it other than those concerning leather preference (which I believe Newton did the first serious work with).

I'm just wondering what is different from how they imagined it since they have pictures to look at, was it stiffer than they imagined? softer than imagined? Darker than they figured? Too bumpy in person? etc. Was the drape different than they had imagined in their mind, etc.

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:38 am

Apparently, it was purpler than he imagined.

SD

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:41 am

St. Dumas wrote:Apparently, it was purpler than he imagined.

SD

The color, ok, interesting...hadn't thought of that one. Thanks. St. D I should have done a more thorough reading...

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:49 am

It's cheaper to have the Raiders I done in cowhide, Tony graciously quoted approximately $750.

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:57 am

I'm with you, Nick.
Really sorry to hear it wasn't your cup of tea after the big expense.
(Especially with the economy the way it is!)

CM · Post by CM » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:10 am

whiskyman wrote:Here's the jacket being worn.

Whisky: that's by far the best jacket I've seen on you, albeit a little short in the back for my taste. Sorry... I don't even own a TN jacket.

hey look so much more genuine that most Westeds I've seen.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:15 am

This shot is the best I've seen so far. Much better than Chris King's.
It does look like the film jacket here. (I guess you have more SA body type than Chris' Mannequin)

From the pictures the leather looks stiff, how is it in life?

Can you make a photo with your arms straight down so we can see the relation of body length and sleeve length? Please?

Also, what size did you say you ordered?

Post by **Holt** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:18 am

people need to do more reading in the threads...

what Nick is personally feeling about the quality in the hide is all there in theis very thread..

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:26 am

binkmeisterRick wrote: Actually, Strones, if you like statistics, do a count of how many jackets Whiskeyman has purchased only to sell later on. (Sorry, Nick, couldn't resist.) ;-)

Hehe... he's not the only one!

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:55 am

That's right! Norway has had more than its fair share of jackets lately for example! ;-)

Two last pics before I package this one up for a new home. Black and white this time just for a change - and no huge pullover underneath.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:08 am

It's the eternal search for the perfect jacket. The search for ourselves!

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:57 am

Okay, very last pics - this time with some more gear.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/p ... CN2457.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/p ... CN2452.jpg

Post by **Holt** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:03 am

why do you keep posting pictures of the jacket if you are getting rid of it??

its the best jacket I have seen on you.why are you getting rid of it again? the purpulish tones? c'mon man..keep it.

I dont get it Nick.

bests
Holt

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:27 am

I like that jacket.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:02 am

I'm still trying to get used to mine.
Here's the issue (and this applies to most screen accurate vs accurate in person) observations.

The jacket looks PERFECT in photos. Definitely the best looking jacket I've seen photographed. However, in person, the leather really does take some getting used to. I STILL haven't decided if I like it in person yet, but there's no doubt that it looks spot on in pics.

The same thing can be said for Chris Reeve's Superman the movie costumes. In person, they are quite green but in pics and in the movie, it looks blue. Also, there's a very distinctive and "heavy" weave texture on the real Superman costume fabric which doesn't show up in pics.

More than ever before, I'm convinced that the customer has to decide if they want a jacket that looks in person like the jacket appears ON SCREEN or alternatively, do you want your jacket to have the same appearance in person as if you were to visit Ford on set filming Raiders.

Chris

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:52 am

Whiskyman, I know you've been at this game much longer than I have but I really would wait a little while. Keep the jacket a week or so and see if it grows on you like IG and others have said. If not, then you can always get rid of it. Or you might grow to love it and be thankful you didn't sell it.

It looks simply amazing (in pictures). The B/W grain looks almost identical to the B/W publicity photos we've seen.

And let he who has not went through a 1000 of these jackets, throw the first rectangular slider.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:53 am

My theory is that if it was a $400-500 jacket, he would keep it. Because of buyer's remorse, he feels guilty of keeping such an expensive jacket. I find it rather strange that he didn't get a sample of the hide that Tony would be using before make such a big investment.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:15 am

More than ever before, I'm convinced that the customer has to decide if they want a jacket that looks in person like the jacket appears ON SCREEN or alternatively, do you want your jacket to have the same appearance in person as if you were to visit Ford on set filming Raiders.

The story of our lives.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:16 am

Guys, again, he said the leather was not to his liking. I'm not understanding why people aren't reading that. We judge too much by photos alone, but when wearing our own jacket it's almost 100% tactile.

With jackets, I have some belief in the love at first wear theory. And if not first wear, at least second wear.

cj610 · Post by **cj610** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:20 am

Regardless of the keep/sell debate, thanks for the pictures and your candid opinion Whiskyman.

It does look great in the pictures.............

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:28 am

Indiana Holt wrote:why do you keep posting pictures of the jacket if you are getting rid of it??

its the best jacket I have seen on you.why are you getting rid of it again? the purpulish tones? c'mon man..keep it.

I dont get it Nick.

bests
Holt

He doesn't like it, should be reason enough to sell it;)

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:36 am

We know, Dutch. Folks are just trying to understand WHY!

The main thing that everyone in these threads has tried to obtain is the most SA accurate looking jacket available. He got one, and has proved it again and again in his photos. It's absolutely dead on target....but he doesn't like the leather. Ok. So what DOES he want? As absolutely SA as one can get, or owner friendly? So far in the past 27+ years, no one has achieved the absolute SA part......so where does it stop? We've read some love the leather AND the look equally.

He's always been all about the appearance. He got it. He doesn't like the jacket. Folks are just wanting to understand the reasoning now. That's what a discussion site is about, especially one as tight a community as this one. We just want to make sure that if and when he sells it, we don't start reading posts later in the game of 'sellers remorse' due to this quick decision just after receiving the jacket. That's all.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:40 am

RCSignals wrote:
Indiana Strones wrote:What I see here is that there are two guys selling their brand new TN Indy I jackets, just five minutes after the bag/box opening, and NOT because of a wrong size problem. Does this mean something?
It means nothing.

Exactly. ;-)

Surprised, IS? There's an old joke in the business world that said there are 3 kinds of liars in the word....liars, @#$% liars, and statisticians. ;-)

Regard !Michaelson

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:33 pm

And my reasoning (again, let me add my normal caveat that I'm not an expert--hmm, wonder when I actually become one?

) is that there have been a few people who own one of these that have said the leather, being different from what they were used to, was off-putting at first. After spending some time with the jacket, they have grown to really like the leather. I'd hate for anyone to sell it and then regret it later when you could wait and, if the love still isn't there, sell it without regret.

To be honest, the shortness of the Raiders jacket really threw me at first. I normally like a longer jacket (we're talking car coat length is great by me). But I wanted a more SA Raiders look and have been going with the shorter length. It's still throwing me some, but the more I wear it, the more accustomed I become to it.

But, hey, I'll be first to admit that my opinion is frequently worth less than 2 cents.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:54 pm

You shouldn't have to "grow" to like a $1,000 jacket.......like one doesn't buy a $250K Ferrari so that you can grow to like it.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:48 pm

I agree, PSB. I don't see how letting the leather form to your body over a series of weeks will allow you to enjoy the leather any more if you didn't like it the first time you laid eyes and hands on it. Either you like it or you don't.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:17 pm

PSBIndy wrote:You shouldn't have to "grow" to like a $1,000 jacket.......like one doesn't buy a $250K Ferrari so that you can grow to like it.

Sorry, but I've personally known people who have, so that doesn't wash.

Regard! Michaelson

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:52 pm

Michaelson wrote:
PSBIndy wrote:You shouldn't have to "grow" to like a $1,000 jacket.......like one doesn't buy a $250K Ferrari so that you can grow to like it.
Sorry, but I've personally known people who have, so that doesn't wash.

Regard! Michaelson

that is a very strong point when i think about it. you dump $1K on something and you're not ga ga when you get it......it is hard to say, maybe i'll like it tomorrow. that is tough for some and tis 'a leap from the lions head'.

the last time i dumped that much money for a jacket, i looked at it.....loved it.......looked at the price and thought, maybe i'll just put it on to see how badly it fits me, cuz then i won't want. then it fit me perfectly.......after that i didn't care what the price was.

i understand that now but i guess i had to get my grey matter stimulated by you fine folks

Indiana Williams · Post by **Indiana Williams** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:58 pm

Nick, I really feel like I missed the boat on this one. Sorry to hear that the Nowak wasnt your cup of tea. I hope whoever bought your jacket enjoys it. Im loving mine and everyday I wear it, it just gets more and more comfortable. It really is like the 'black spidey suit' minus the emo haircut ;-)
Best Regards,
Joe

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:00 pm

Chris_King wrote:I'm still trying to get used to mine.
Here's the issue (and this applies to most screen accurate vs accurate in person) observations.

The jacket looks PERFECT in photos. Definitely the best looking jacket I've seen photographed. However, in person, the leather really does take some getting used to. I STILL haven't decided if I like it in person yet, but there's no doubt that it looks spot on in pics.

The same thing can be said for Chris Reeve's Superman the movie costumes. In person, they are quite green but in pics and in the movie, it looks blue. Also, there's a very distinctive and "heavy" weave texture on the real Superman costume fabric which doesn't show up in pics.

More than ever before, I'm convinced that the customer has to decide if they want a jacket that looks in person like the jacket appears ON SCREEN or alternatively, do you want your jacket to have the same appearance in person as if you were to visit Ford on set filming Raiders.

Chris

I think you answered your own question. They were picked or made to look good on film. I think we build this stuff up in our minds to be bigger and better than what it is.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:01 pm

I think whiskey has only given one reason for not wanting to keep the jacket - the LEATHER! Why are we getting mixed up about this?

I too think it looks good on him.

Indiana Williams · Post by **Indiana Williams** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:02 pm

BendingOak wrote:
Chris_King wrote:I'm still trying to get used to mine.
Here's the issue (and this applies to most screen accurate vs accurate in person) observations.

The jacket looks PERFECT in photos. Definitely the best looking jacket I've seen photographed. However, in person, the leather really does take some getting used to. I STILL haven't decided if I like it in person yet, but there's no doubt that it looks spot on in pics.

The same thing can be said for Chris Reeve's Superman the movie costumes. In person, they are quite green but in pics and in the movie, it looks blue. Also, there's a very distinctive and "heavy" weave texture on the real Superman costume fabric which doesn't show up in pics.

More than ever before, I'm convinced that the customer has to decide if they want a jacket that looks in person like the jacket appears ON SCREEN or alternatively, do you want your jacket to have the same appearance in person as if you were to visit Ford on set filming Raiders.

Chris
I think you answered your own question. They were picked or made to look good on film. I think we build this stuff up in our minds to be bigger and better than what it is.

That right there is the 'Smoking Gun'!

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:49 pm

I really like the look of Whiskey's jacket in the pics, and also think it looks great on him,.....BUT he has to like it. If it's not what he expected, we shouldn't expect him to keep it. Whether it cost $1000 or $100. Why keep what you don't like.

I just want to say that it was great to see more pictures of the jacket (some of the best shots so far I might add), and it makes me want one even more.
Thanks Whisky for giving the jacket a shot, and sharing all the great pics.
Wish it was my size.
Mike

CM · Post by CM » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:52 pm

PSBIndy wrote:You shouldn't have to "grow" to like a $1,000 jacket.......like one doesn't buy a $250K Ferrari so that you can grow to like it.

With respect, I totally disagree. The price of the item is irrelevant to whether one can grow to like it. How many times have people taken time to get to know and like something? And once they do, they often end up loving it.

A friend let me borrow his $180,000 car which I thought stunk at first. I was really disapointed. Three weeks later, once I got to know it better, I decided it was fantastic.

The same thing can happen with movies. I thought Raiders was okay when I first saw it. I thought it was brilliant the second time. Astonishing by the third viewing.

And what about Holt and his custom HH LC jacket? He even put it up for sale at first. Now he loves it.

People change. They sometimes need to take a few days/weeks to settle on a view.

Oops.... long post about a simple idea... sorry.

Cheers ;-)

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:52 pm

Chris_King wrote:I'm still trying to get used to mine.
Here's the issue (and this applies to most screen accurate vs accurate in person) observations.

The jacket looks PERFECT in photos. Definitely the best looking jacket I've seen photographed. However, in person, the leather really does take some getting used to. I STILL haven't decided if I like it in person yet, but there's no doubt that it looks spot on in pics.

The same thing can be said for Chris Reeve's Superman the movie costumes. In person, they are quite green but in pics and in the movie, it looks blue. Also, there's a very distinctive and "heavy" weave texture on the real Superman costume fabric which doesn't show up in pics.

More than ever before, I'm convinced that the customer has to decide if they want a jacket that looks in person like the jacket appears ON SCREEN or alternatively, do you want your jacket to have the same appearance in person as if you were to visit Ford on set filming Raiders.

Chris

In that case for you it would seem 100% suitable for your mannequin display, which you said you bought it for.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:54 pm

BendingOak wrote:
Chris_King wrote:I'm still trying to get used to mine.
Here's the issue (and this applies to most screen accurate vs accurate in person) observations.

The jacket looks PERFECT in photos. Definitely the best looking jacket I've seen photographed. However, in person, the leather really does take some getting used to. I STILL haven't decided if I like it in person yet, but there's no doubt that it looks spot on in pics.

The same thing can be said for Chris Reeve's Superman the movie costumes. In person, they are quite green but in pics and in the movie, it looks blue. Also, there's a very distinctive and "heavy" weave texture on the real Superman costume fabric which doesn't show up in pics.

More than ever before, I'm convinced that the customer has to decide if they want a jacket that looks in person like the jacket appears ON SCREEN or alternatively, do you want your jacket to have the same appearance in person as if you were to visit Ford on set filming Raiders.

Chris
I think you answered your own question. They were picked or made to look good on film. I think we build this stuff up in our minds to be bigger and better than what it is.

Yes. The search goes on for some people because the 'imagined' jacket does not exist.

Post by **Holt** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:55 pm

its as easy as this..

you have to grow to like coffe.then you love it and cant live without it..

exepct Michaelson...I am sure he had coffe in the milkbottle as a child..so its all natural to him..

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:59 pm

Michaelson wrote:We know, Dutch. Folks are just trying to understand WHY!

The main thing that everyone in these threads has tried to obtain is the most SA accurate looking jacket available. He got one, and has proved it again and again in his photos. It's absolutely dead on target....but he doesn't like the leather. Ok. So what DOES he want? As absolutely SA as one can get, or owner friendly? So far in the past 27+ years, no one has achieved the absolute SA part......so where does it stop? We've read some love the leather AND the look equally.

He's always been all about the appearance. He got it. He doesn't like the jacket. Folks are just wanting to understand the reasoning now. That's what a discussion site is about, especially one as tight a community as this one. We just want to make sure that if and when he sells it, we don't start reading posts later in the game of 'sellers remorse' due to this quick decision just after receiving the jacket. That's all.

Regards! Michaelson

Very well stated

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:25 pm

CM wrote:
PSBIndy wrote:You shouldn't have to "grow" to like a $1,000 jacket.......like one doesn't buy a $250K Ferrari so that you can grow to like it.
With respect, I totally disagree. The price of the item is irrelevant to whether one can grow to like it. How many times have people taken time to get to know and like something? And once they do, they often end up loving it.

A friend let me borrow his $180,000 car which I thought stunk at first. I was really disapointed. Three weeks later, once I got to know it better, I decided it was fantastic.

The same thing can happen with movies. I thought Raiders was okay when I first saw it. I thought it was brilliant the second time. Astonishing by the third viewing.

And what about Holt and his custom HH LC jacket? He even put it up for sale at first. Now he loves it.

People change. They sometimes need to take a few days/weeks to settle on a view.

Oops.... long post about a simple idea... sorry.

Cheers ;-)

I know what you're saying....but what it essentially means is that you're just trying to find ways to justify/defend your purchase. Nothing really wrong with that......but not the same thing as loving something right when you get it. The problem with taking time to like something is that in this day and age when we are constantly bombarded with new stuff all the time, things get ignored and later becomes a waste of money. If I'm lukewarm with a certain jacket that I just got in the mail, it goes into the back of the closet and collects dust, and I end up wearing the Indy jacket that's always been my favorite from the start.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:37 pm

PSBIndy wrote:
I know what you're saying....but what it essentially means is that you're just trying to find ways to justify/defend your purchase. Nothing really wrong with that......but not the same thing as loving something right when you get it. The problem with taking time to like something is that in this day and age when we are constantly bombarded with new stuff all the time, things get ignored and later becomes a waste of money. If I'm lukewarm with a certain jacket that I just got in the mail, it goes into the back of the closet and collects dust, and I end up wearing the Indy jacket that's always been my favorite from the start.

No other jackets for me. After buying this baby, I'm broke. I'm wearing the thing even if it makes me break out in a hideous rash and appendages start falling off like clothes at a college kegger!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:14 pm

crismans wrote: I'm wearing the thing even if it makes me break out in a hideous rash and appendages start falling off like clothes at a college kegger!

If you'd stop drinking that cheap stuff, that wouldn't happen!

Oh, you were talking about the jacket! My bad.

Regard! Michaelson

CM · Post by CM » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:43 pm

PSBIndy wrote: I know what you're saying....but what it essentially means is that you're just trying to find ways to justify/defend your purchase. Nothing really wrong with that......but not the same thing as loving something right when you get it.

No, I'm saying that you need to get familiar with some things before you like them (it's a relationship) and that jumping the gun or making a snap decision can be a bad thing. So it's nothing at all about justification - it's about getting to know something before you diss it. But I quite agree with you that in this day and age people make silly rush decisions (not referring to Whisky here) they often come to regret.

Cheers

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:11 pm

Chris_King wrote:I'm still trying to get used to mine.
Here's the issue (and this applies to most screen accurate vs accurate in person) observations.

The jacket looks PERFECT in photos. Definitely the best looking jacket I've seen photographed....More than ever before, I'm convinced that the customer has to decide if they want a jacket that looks in person like the jacket appears ON SCREEN or alternatively, do you want your jacket to have the same appearance in person as if you were to visit Ford on set filming Raiders.

Chris

I had a little of that experience with the darker novapelle, to me it looked kind of a grey-brown black in person, in photos it looked more brown than in person. As it wears and is distressed more of the black/grey comes off though.

Tyderium · Post by **Tyderium** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:44 pm

I think Chris hit the nail on the head with the individual needing to make a distinction between a replica of the jacket as it looked on set and therefore acknowledging the fact it will contrast to expectation, as opposed to emulating a perception of a jacket rendered by light and shade on film.

The photographic evidence alone, especially the black and white images posted earlier, provide a compelling argument for this jacket. My end purpose is a static life size costume display so the fact the jacket being offered is purported to be an exact replica of one of the screen used jackets is a significant factor for me. ‘In the flesh’ assessments aside, I have to say that photos of this jacket being worn by their owners or mannequins alike have appeared nothing less than striking.

I’m new by the way, good to be here and hi to all.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:16 pm

crismans wrote:
No other jackets for me. After buying this baby, I'm broke. I'm wearing the thing even if it makes me break out in a hideous rash and appendages start falling off like clothes at a college kegger!

.....sure no other jackets (when have I heard that before?)......maybe for 2008......better start saving up for 2009.....Tony's surprises for next year will really make your wallet scream.

CM · Post by CM » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:40 pm

Yeah, apparently Tony has an original TOD jacket that he's going to copy just for us, how great is that!

Sorry, Peter, bad joke.

;-)

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:23 am

How dark is the Nowak Raiders, anyway? From what I've seen it looks VERY dark brown, almost black. Does anyone have a shot of say it vs. a Wested dark brown lamb in the same frame to compare?

moses · Post by **moses** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:30 am

There's a comparison with an authentic brown Wested earlier in this topic.

moses · Post by **moses** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:32 am

Come to think of it... if Peter's "authentic brown" is an exact match to an original hide, and Novak's jacket is an exact replica of an original jacket - why aren't they the same colour???