Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Mike, Indydawg
Indiana Holt wrote:yes that is how Todd does it.I believe Indiana G had Tony make the jacket with the ''K''stitch and the empty box on the pulling strap. G?
the jacket slydini has,the Indy jacket .the jacket that is suppose to be an exact copy of THE jacket... has two piece rec sliders and theXbox.thereby TN supports the theory about the Xbox.
Indiana Holt wrote:the same reason you got the pocketflaps like Binks and G and not forget castor.
But slydini has totaly different flaps and pocket shape..
it has also the arm seam lined up to the yolk.not below...
confusing isnt it...
yup....that was my badIndiana Holt wrote:yes that is how Todd does it.I believe Indiana G had Tony make the jacket with the ''K''stitch and the empty box on the pulling strap. G?
the jacket slydini has,the jacket that is suppose to be an exact copy of THE jacket has two piece rec sliders and the Xbox.thereby TN supports the theory about the Xbox being on the hero.
i believe that TN is taking the #010 specs and standardizing his offering with it (my first #010 jacket that IW has). this is where the water gets muddied.....if tony missed the roll on the top of the pocket flap...how much more was missed to construct the prototype? these are the superficial details as compaired to the hide, cut, and measurements. he told me on more than one occassion that the actual jacket that he sampled was a piece of junk......so how much interpretation was made in the design? how much did he have to do if the original jacket was just not that workable? we are all not 'bernie's' hammering on tony to get his stitching down to so many penetrations per square inch so did he let some details slide originally (made some artistic interpretation)?Indiana G wrote: yup....that was my bad
if these are details of concern, i recommend stating those to tony as he will give you whatever your heart desires.
and that's just it. The Ford Raiders jacket length may not be right for every body. It doesn't mean it is 'too short'Indiana Holt wrote:I so agree with you G.how can we work the jacket with the holster thingie?
it does not work with todays wested longs or maby even regs.depends on your torso..take me for example..I can not make it work with a wested that is 26.50'' or longer backlength..I get a bunched up jacket in the sides and back ..I hate it..with a 25'' jacket I could make it work...
my personal length for a jacket is 25.5'' that doesnt make it feel stupid short..like I outgrew the jacket or something..know what I mean? it feels just right on my torso..I think if I was to put on a jacket with the backlenth of 23.5'' I would feel pretty stupid in public...
TN confirmed that my first personal thoughts on the raiders jacket length is short! I am glad he came with his jacket offering...makes it all so easier in the future
It was also mentioned, I think by _, that corrections were made in areas of the prototype to make it more like a jacket should be made. That might account for the rear arm seam and back yoke seam being lined up.Indiana G wrote:yup....that was my badIndiana Holt wrote:yes that is how Todd does it.I believe Indiana G had Tony make the jacket with the ''K''stitch and the empty box on the pulling strap. G?
the jacket slydini has,the jacket that is suppose to be an exact copy of THE jacket has two piece rec sliders and the Xbox.thereby TN supports the theory about the Xbox being on the hero.
if these are details of concern, i recommend stating those to tony as he will give you whatever your heart desires.
Also though, don't forget as far as pocket size appearance goes, that's a much larger jacket.Indiana Holt wrote:when he said you get the EXACT same jacket...I believe he was talking about the pattern.the cut.the sleeves.the collar.the backpanel..
the small details like.xbox.arm seam.I believe he made standard after he made his first copy of the indy 1. which was not all that well recieved....just look 20 pages back in the TN thread...
this is why I got so confused in the first place whn I saw your jacket..I expected a smaller jacket of slydinis jacket..not what you have now..which ROCKS by the way!!!!
but I personally would pick the slydini jacket over the modyfied jacket.no matter how extreme SA it is..but thats just me...
see the Xbox. the 2 piece rec sliders. the pockets and flaps,pluss the pocket placing. and the rear arm seam lined up with the yolk....
pretty different from yours.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the irony in that a year or two ago, the consensus at CoW was that a Raiders jacket should ONLY hit 1-2 inches below the belt, and anyone else who thought Indy's jacket should be 3-4+ inches below the belt was laughed off as being un-screen-accurate.RCSignals wrote:and that's just it. The Ford Raiders jacket length may not be right for every body. It doesn't mean it is 'too short'Indiana Holt wrote:I so agree with you G.how can we work the jacket with the holster thingie?
it does not work with todays wested longs or maby even regs.depends on your torso..take me for example..I can not make it work with a wested that is 26.50'' or longer backlength..I get a bunched up jacket in the sides and back ..I hate it..with a 25'' jacket I could make it work...
my personal length for a jacket is 25.5'' that doesnt make it feel stupid short..like I outgrew the jacket or something..know what I mean? it feels just right on my torso..I think if I was to put on a jacket with the backlenth of 23.5'' I would feel pretty stupid in public...
TN confirmed that my first personal thoughts on the raiders jacket length is short! I am glad he came with his jacket offering...makes it all so easier in the future
;-)Castor Dioscuri wrote: Is it just me, or does anyone else find the irony in that a year or two ago, the consensus at CoW was that a Raiders jacket should ONLY hit 1-2 inches below the belt, and anyone else who thought Indy's jacket should be 3-4+ inches below the belt was laughed off as being un-screen-accurate.
Fast-forward to the present, where the majority of folks at CoW are confused as to why a Raider's copy is so short...
I don't know if you're agreeing with me or if you thought I was supporting the "1-2 inches" theory (which I'm not), but I did argue against the point at length a while ago here:Chris_King wrote:1- 2inches below the belt AT THE FRONT is too short in my opinion.
The length we're talking about here is at the rear.
The Nowak Ford sized jacket falls correctly at 3-4 inches at the front.
Chris
Castor Dioscuri wrote: Is it just me, or does anyone else find the irony in that a year or two ago, the consensus at CoW was that a Raiders jacket should ONLY hit 1-2 inches below the belt, and anyone else who thought Indy's jacket should be 3-4+ inches below the belt was laughed off as being un-screen-accurate.
Fast-forward to the present, where the majority of folks at CoW are confused as to why a Raider's copy is so short...
Castor Dioscuri wrote:
I don't know if you're agreeing with me or if you thought I was supporting the "1-2 inches" theory (which I'm not), but I did argue against the point at length a while ago here:
viewtopic.php?t=22195&start=0
I'd take it as yours is the way the copied jacket is, which is what you wanted.Chris_King wrote:Just to confuse matters still further. Here's Tony's reply regarding the straps:
HELLO CHRIS ! YOURS IS AS THE ONE IN THE FILM , EXCEPT THE CHANGE THAT YOU HAVE REQUESTED , WE HAVE MADE OTHER INDY ONE JACKETS WAY BEFORE MR FRANCISCO. ALSO I NOTICED THAT MANY JACKETS THAT WE HAVE MADE DO NOT GET POSTED ANY PLACE AT ALL . THE JACKET THAT MATTERS IS IN YOU HANDS BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW ,KIND REGARDS TONY NOWAK .
Doesn't really explain why slydini's jacket got the "X" box stitches and all the other differences.
Chris
I guess you fall into the 'I'll see it when I believe it' category.PLATON wrote:http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g182/ ... G_3475.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g182/ ... G_3479.jpg
Well, what I see here is that the jacket shown above looks like a modern Wested standard cut only with a worse hide.
After reading all your posts about the K seam X-Box seam and other details I find with sorrow that "those guys can't even make an exact copy of a jacket".
I probably should be the one apologizing... Even earlier morning here in the U.S! ;-)Chris_King wrote:I was agreeing with you Castor. Sorry if that wasn't clear from my post - it's early morning here in the UK.
Chris
Castor Dioscuri wrote:
I don't know if you're agreeing with me or if you thought I was supporting the "1-2 inches" theory (which I'm not), but I did argue against the point at length a while ago here:
viewtopic.php?t=22195&start=0
No offense, PLATON, but have you even spoken with Tony? You probably haven't even sent him a single e-mail at this point. It seems pretty clear to me that you will probably never get one of these jackets, which is fine, because even Tony says his jacket isn't for everybody. Same can be said of any jacket maker, including the one you favor. But if you have no personal experience with Tony, then it's rather foolish to say he's not willing to accommodate requests. To the contrary, of any vendor I've had the privilege to work with, he's been one of the very most accommodating and straightforward of them all. I'm not alone in that opinion, either.PLATON wrote:I find it hard to believe that this guy will accomodate all our requests. He's just playin' with us.
Chris_King wrote:Just to confuse matters still further. Here's Tony's reply regarding the straps:
HELLO CHRIS ! YOURS IS AS THE ONE IN THE FILM , EXCEPT THE CHANGE THAT YOU HAVE REQUESTED , WE HAVE MADE OTHER INDY ONE JACKETS WAY BEFORE MR FRANCISCO. ALSO I NOTICED THAT MANY JACKETS THAT WE HAVE MADE DO NOT GET POSTED ANY PLACE AT ALL . THE JACKET THAT MATTERS IS IN YOU HANDS BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW ,KIND REGARDS TONY NOWAK .
Doesn't really explain why slydini's jacket got the "X" box stitches and all the other differences.
Chris
With all due respect, I have to disagree. I once sent one email to Tony and never got a reply. That was more than 3 months ago.No offense, PLATON, but have you even spoken with Tony? You probably haven't even sent him a single e-mail at this point. It seems pretty clear to me that you will probably never get one of these jackets, which is fine, because even Tony says his jacket isn't for everybody. Same can be said of any jacket maker, including the one you favor. But if you have no personal experience with Tony, then it's rather foolish to say he's not willing to accommodate requests. To the contrary, of any vendor I've had the privilege to work with, he's been one of the very most accommodating and straightforward of them all. I'm not alone in that opinion, either.
I will never tell you which jacket to buy or what to ask for, but I will share when asked, and I base all my opinions off of personal experience (and not photos that are so blurry that they look like they were taken as a Bigfoot sighting) and not hearsay or uneducated assumptions of a vendor or product. I'm more inclined to listen to the views of those who have worked with Tony and gotten their jackets (whether they are happy with them or not) versus someone who may be raving about a Wested/Todd's/G&B/Nowak they have never owned or seen in person.
A5, all I can say is that I know 2 jacket makers that if we give them the laundry list will create the perfect jacket including long collar and everything and they will not charge you $1000.Perhaps what we need is someone who has some time to sit down with Tony when he has some time and create a laundry list of all the specs from both jackets to erase this confusion for us and for Tony as well so we know exactly what we're getting? There just seems to be a lot of confusion now and I think it would help both the fans and also help Tony from being sent an overly abundant list of specs for each jacket with orders. Then it can be sticky'd here for all to see.
What say you?
I kind of agree with what you're saying, A5. At the same time I'm also looking at it a little from Tony's side. Yes, a list would benefit him by reducing the clutter of unnecessary request but at the same time he has got to protect himself a little bit. There's been a little bit of talk of IP (intellectual property) around COW, and even though the design is not of his creation, he may have actually figured out some things that nobody has been ever to figure out before. He has a right to protect some of what he has figured out. Some of it is just hanging out there in the open but other are more subtle.agent5 wrote:I think you misunderstood. It would be beneficial to have Tony give us some of the specs so we will know exactly what we're getting, not us send him a requested list. Maybe not size measurements, but things like the hardware, the straps in question above, the standard collar length and width, hides, things like that. Since the jackets will change in size due to the individual it would be pointless to ask him for size measurements of the jacket itself. Since there are two jackets in question it would be nice to know what was what on each so there is no confusion and may make for an easier order experience for those who are pondering the purchase.
To hear, "It's the jacket that matters", means little to me if I don't know exactly what I'd be getting. I don't know about you but that's me. To reiterate a point I made before, Tony is not a gearhead and may not think about such small details as something that really matters such as the way the strap is attached. He is an expert jacket maker and IMO as long as we know exactly what we're getting it will help us decide better what we want and should result in a smoother transaction for everyone.
I think we were all as excited to see your jacket as you were. This was a planned highlight of my day as we all know it was yours! I'm sorry it went sour for you. But at least it'll be there tomorrow!whiskyman wrote:Yes - when he speaks too!
I'm surprised to hear of unanswered emails as he always replied to all of mine - including the general queries before I decided to buy a jacket. And he's a very pleasant person to chat to on the phone. Perhaps the odd single email gets lost in the flood.
According to the online tracking, I think all my begging over the phone has led to customs releasing my jacket. Hopefully it'll arrive tomorrow morning.
Very valid points here. I fear that if too much fan "input", whatever that means, is given to Tony he will really end up with a bad taste in his mouth regarding this stuff. Don't get me wrong, a lot of people here who have ordered jackets have very valid questions and the customer should know what he/she is getting. Still, I think too much prodding and poking will lead us down a path we don't want to be on...just my two cents.Don't Call Me Junior! wrote:I kind of agree with what you're saying, A5. At the same time I'm also looking at it a little from Tony's side. Yes, a list would benefit him by reducing the clutter of unnecessary request but at the same time he has got to protect himself a little bit. There's been a little bit of talk of IP (intellectual property) around COW, and even though the design is not of his creation, he may have actually figured out some things that nobody has been ever to figure out before. He has a right to protect some of what he has figured out. Some of it is just hanging out there in the open but other are more subtle.agent5 wrote:I think you misunderstood. It would be beneficial to have Tony give us some of the specs so we will know exactly what we're getting, not us send him a requested list. Maybe not size measurements, but things like the hardware, the straps in question above, the standard collar length and width, hides, things like that. Since the jackets will change in size due to the individual it would be pointless to ask him for size measurements of the jacket itself. Since there are two jackets in question it would be nice to know what was what on each so there is no confusion and may make for an easier order experience for those who are pondering the purchase.
To hear, "It's the jacket that matters", means little to me if I don't know exactly what I'd be getting. I don't know about you but that's me. To reiterate a point I made before, Tony is not a gearhead and may not think about such small details as something that really matters such as the way the strap is attached. He is an expert jacket maker and IMO as long as we know exactly what we're getting it will help us decide better what we want and should result in a smoother transaction for everyone.
I know that Tony has expressed to me a little concern that he himself might be taken advantage and undercut by possible competitors by giving away too many details. He is the one who spent his own time on his own dime to come up with what he believes (and so many others now) is the de facto Raiders jacket. On certain questions I asked he very politely but firmly said that he intentionally would like to leave out certain specifics of the jacket so that it would lessen the chance that someone steal his template (I'm paraphrasing here). There were certain details he saw in the jacket that he is pretty sure that most other people haven't and wouldn't initially pick up on that give the jacket some of the certain signature characteristics it has and that other makers have not picked up on. I read into his statement as: even if someone amongst us at COW were to give him an accurate listing of those characteristics, he would still neither confirm nor deny them in their entirety. Maybe he would smile and nod or even throw you some bones but he's not giving it all away - no way, no how. And I don't blame him. I would almost be disappointed on a certain level if he did.
He is quite confident and quite clear: As other have quoted him before (and this is paraphrasing from some of our phone conversations, "My Indy I jacket is not for everyone. It's simple. I think I have figured out how to make the best copy of the Indy I jacket currently available. Hands down. Even still, I will customize it however you would like if that would make you happy. If you like it buy it, if not, then that's OK too." Some things might just have to come down to faith. I guess the question for some is, are you Mulder or are you Scully?
That is so true !! thanks for that!agent5 wrote:
To hear, "It's the jacket that matters", means little to me if I don't know exactly what I'd be getting. I don't know about you but that's me. To reiterate a point I made before, Tony is not a gearhead and may not think about such small details as something that really matters such as the way the strap is attached. He is an expert jacket maker and IMO as long as we know exactly what we're getting it will help us decide better what we want and should result in a smoother transaction for everyone.
You are right. Except that technically the back and the front of the Raiders jacket are the same length. The back actually needs more length (because it needs to clear your shoulder blades) to appear to be level with the front. The Crystal Skull jacket is actually longer in the back. Again, the original Raiders jacket was an improperly made piece of junk (and that’s why we dig it).Indiana G wrote:cool! hey rundquist........can i have it???
perhaps there should be a clarification made.....the front looks about right, but the back is shorter than the front, which is the way its suppose to be. i think there is a large population gauging the length of the jacket due to pics/images of what the jacket looks like in the front....very wrong as these are different lengths.
From a previous discussion with Tony, that second jacket was the one with the Leather Concessionaires label, was from Mr Sparks, and wasn't copied at all.Indiana Holt wrote:Chris_King wrote:Just to confuse matters still further. Here's Tony's reply regarding the straps:
HELLO CHRIS ! YOURS IS AS THE ONE IN THE FILM , EXCEPT THE CHANGE THAT YOU HAVE REQUESTED , WE HAVE MADE OTHER INDY ONE JACKETS WAY BEFORE MR FRANCISCO. ALSO I NOTICED THAT MANY JACKETS THAT WE HAVE MADE DO NOT GET POSTED ANY PLACE AT ALL . THE JACKET THAT MATTERS IS IN YOU HANDS BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW ,KIND REGARDS TONY NOWAK .
Doesn't really explain why slydini's jacket got the "X" box stitches and all the other differences.
Chris
also..come to think about it..
from what pattern was the jacket slydini has taken from?
I guess it was the second jacket Tony had.
