I need help! Goat Skin or Cowhide?

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:38 pm

I am thinking about getting a new Indy jacket for christmas, and i can't decide wheter or not i should go with the cow hide or the goat skin. I need help!!!!

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:17 pm

Depends. Cowhide for warmth, goatskin for toughness. -M

EchoSix · Post by **EchoSix** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:36 pm

Well, even though it's not an Indy jacket, I have an old Avirex cowhide flight jacket I got YEARS ago and it kept me no warmer than the current Wested goat I've got now. It's their regular goat, not their washed goat, which is a bit thinner.

AND it's the toughest freaking thing. I'm a carpenter and I've been whaling on this thing and each time I think I've done something of harm to it (the sleeves usually), it looks no different.

It's like the doors of thes plastic mini-vans on the market now.

You can't dent 'em!

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:51 pm

moooo. The best looking I've had personally, over time, is the moo cow. Wears in great, distresses nicely. The billy goat I've owned is a tough leather, but always looks dry to me.
I vote moo cow. Even my Horse Wested, which I like, I would trade for moo cow if I could.

Gunk · Post by **Gunk** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:00 pm

how does goat age...does a 1 year well worn goat jacket look nice and beat up?

IndyFalco · Post by **IndyFalco** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:10 pm

Gunk wrote:how does goat age...does a 1 year well worn goat jacket look nice and beat up?

Goat naturally distresses very well. After a year I'm sure it won't look "beat up" unless you artificially distress the jacket.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:13 pm

and that'll require a LOT of natural distressing. -M

CM · Post by CM » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:13 pm

Go the goat. One of the toughest leathers going and ages gently but beautifully. Cow may actually be lighter than goat - it all depends on the grade of the leather. For me Goat is the ultimate leather - if it's a good grade and not thin like some makers use. G&B and Wested do excellent skins - especially the G&B. I have both.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:16 pm

Personally, I agree - go with goat. Cow can be very nice (like for example, TN's IndyIV cows), but goat will take everything you throw at it and keep on trucking. -M

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:25 am

I would personally go with Cow because it seems to be tougher. In the end, it's really a personal preference

NIBS

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:43 am

knibs7 wrote:I would personally go with Cow because it seems to be tougher. In the end, it's really a personal preference

NIBS

???? Cow tougher than goat? Lamb maybe, but goat is really more resilient.

Jakob Emiliussen · Post by **Jakob Emiliussen** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:08 am

Assuming that you do not have one in horsehide, the only thing you should be thinking is: "Why have I not included Horsehide in my considerations yet"

- horsehide is the ONLY way to go

. I have one in HH myself, and it's soooo nice. Further, I've never heard of anyone who didn't like their HH better than any other jacket they have.

Well, that's just my two cents

... Hope you find a hide you like - it's all about taste anyway!

Regards
Emiliussen

Post by **Holt** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:52 am

well first I think by reading you thread is who will be the maker? wested.todd.GB.TN.Magnoli.

knibs you have a TN cowhide.we all know that the leather Tony uses is top shelf.creme de la creme.so yeah that cowhide would be one tough hide.it screams ''bring it on'' to me. thats why if I get a TN Indy1 I will get it in his new finish cowhide.

when it comes to Goat you know you get one tough skin.it will outlast you I am sure..I have seen 50 year old goatskin jackets and they look and feel just as tough but looks like a Indy jacket would look if it was idtress by deb.the goat wested uses is wonderfull and really a good quality skin.it will outlast you.th GB I dont know anything about but it looks motuwatering.and I'll take CM's word for it.if I get a GB would get it in goat.

Falco.I beleve you have a washed goat right? the washed goat will look 30 years old in just about 2 months of wear I am sure..distresses to quick in my opinion.but still a wonderfull hide..

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:06 am

Since you live around LA, probably wouldn't need a heavy, bulky jacket, much. To some degree, we face the same situation here in the SW. I'd go with a lighter weight hide, just mho.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:09 am

Get goat because the cow doesn't drape at all.

Post by **Holt** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:12 am

true..but if you had gotten a TN cowhide I am sure it would drape just as nice as the goat.it sure looks like that when looking at the pictures of the TN new cowhide

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:17 am

From my experience, they are both great, tough hides. It boils down to how you like your jackets to feel on you.

The goat is a lighter, thinner hide which is nice but feels lightweight, whereas the cowhide is a thicker, heavier hide that feels like a leather jacket should!

I have both and it is a toss-up... Sorry, this doesn't help at all, does it?

Post by **Holt** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:20 am

well C.I am very interrested to see some pics of your cowhide jacket.

pm me if you like.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:24 am

Holt

I'll pm some pics tonight.
Mine is the older predistressed cowhide (not novapelle) which to my eyes looks just like the TN Indy 4 hide - But it is not too heavy like some cowhide jackets I have handled.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:12 pm

After reading all of the above, let me point out the obvious. This is a very subjective thing.

To remove that problem, my main questions for this decision would be these;
1. Do you want it to get naturally distressed easily, or stay newer looking? (Cow distresses beautifully, Goat will look newer much longer)
2. Do you want something that will handle rain really well, or is that not much of a concern? (Goat is less porous, and thus more water resistant)
3. How warm do you want it? (Heavier cow hide is best for the cold. Light cow and most goatskin are about equal, but I find that cold wind cuts through goat like it's not even there. If you want warmer goatskin, get a cotton lining!)

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:57 pm

Goat is more resilient tthan both cowhide and horsehide. There are A-2 flight jackets from WW2 made out of all three hides. The goatskin ones are invariably always in better condition than the others. Of course, I doubt that you’ll care about what your jacket looks like in 50 years. Goatskin has the best strength to weight ratio as well. It’s lighter and stronger than the other two. The only thing negative that I could say about it is that some would say that it’s “too good”. Most modern tanned hides are not easy to distress.

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:03 pm

moooooooooooooooooooo

[img][img]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/ ... 00/cow.jpg[/img][/img]

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:49 pm

I vote goat, I've been wearing mine and and it's one tuff jacket. Plus with a sweater it's very warm.

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:32 pm

the maker is U.S. wings

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:20 am

Here is a pic of my cowhide wested:

It is one of their pre distressed cowhides. The hide is pretty similar to the vintage cowhide that US wings uses... The wested may be a bit darker than a us wings.

Post by **Holt** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:30 am

wow..that looks pretty adventureish to my eyes..how old is it?

what can you tell me about the quality of the hide?

has it stretched or shrunken? if so by how much of you now..I mean is it noticeable?

Holt

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:35 am

EchoSix wrote:Well, even though it's not an Indy jacket, I have an old Avirex cowhide flight jacket I got YEARS ago and it kept me no warmer than the current Wested goat I've got now. It's their regular goat, not their washed goat, which is a bit thinner.

I also have an old Avirex cowhide and a G&B Goat. I like the Avirex but I love the goat. It is much lighter and is much more comfortable because of that for me. The cowhide is warmer though but the goat is better in the rain which for me is pretty important.
best
Canada

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:47 am

wow..that looks pretty adventureish to my eyes..how old is it?

what can you tell me about the quality of the hide?

has it stretched or shrunken? if so by how much of you now..I mean is it noticeable?

I don't know how old it is... I picked it up second hand from a forum member.

The hide feels like it is a very high quality hide. It is extremely supple yet has that feel of toughness.

I don't think it has had any shrinkage... It hasn't been in a swimming pool yet!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:34 am

You have a beautiful jacket Coronado!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:46 am

The washed goat gets great reviews from most all who get one.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:25 am

I have a custom washed goat raider on order right now! I'll post some pics when i get it.

C3

AdaminNYC · Post by **AdaminNYC** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:14 am

My advice would be to go down to the local leather merchant and look at examples of both types of leather.

I was in the same boat as you a year ago. A trip down to Cockpit USA and the decision was clear. I don't remember what it was that I didn't like about goat. I think I didn't care for the surface texture: too pebbly. But I went with cow.

There are not a ton of fans of cow on this forum, but you can count me among them.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:37 am

There is a place for both, and reasons for owning them.

I favor goatskin, but own, and HAVE owned more cowhide than any other material.

It's warm, and with a good treatment of the dressing of your preference, it will also be water resistant....but it's heavy. In winter, who cares? In the late Fall or early Spring, though, it's noticeable.

I tend to wear goatskin more as it's lighter, naturally water resistant, and when it gets colder, I can just layer underneath it. It's also a GREAT wind breaker when those icey north winds blow without adding extra weight.

Either way you go, you'll be happy. If weight is an issue, give goatskin some thought, as otherwise they tally up pretty evenly when it comes to our needs.

Regards! Michaelson

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:10 pm

I'd have to add my vote for goat as well. The drape of goat is closer to the jacket drape of the first three films (it that's a consideration for you). Cow is very nice but goat has a larger array of pluses to it.

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:39 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:well first I think by reading you thread is who will be the maker? wested.todd.GB.TN.Magnoli.

knibs you have a TN cowhide.we all know that the leather Tony uses is top shelf.creme de la creme.so yeah that cowhide would be one tough hide.it screams ''bring it on'' to me. thats why if I get a TN Indy1 I will get it in his new finish cowhide.

Creme de la creme? I think we tend to exaggerate. Tony's hide is superb, it really is, but outside of Indy jackets it's not hard to find equally nice leathers. Heck, just recently, I handled some pre-distressed cowhide jackets at Red Wing shoes that I think were softer! I have a Triumph motorcycle jacket that's predistressed in black that's similar too. As for tough hide...I don't think we've substantiated that the Indy IV cowhide is tough quite yet.

I will say this. Goatskin doesn't absorb water like cowhide. I wouldn't want to be standing out in the rain for hours in the TN jacket, but have in my old G&B Goatskin without it being too bad (very very wet day at an aidstation for a 50k race)

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:50 pm

I just received a washed goat this evening, and as others have commented, it really lives up to its reputation. Both the authentic lamb and the washed goat are very good products and have been made with a high degree of quality. What is the difference? The washed goat leather is somewhat thinner, drapes better and most nearly replicates the SA look in Raiders. Arguably these jackets are made better than the lamb I received back in '01. Not that it was no good quality, it's just that these newer versions are made better than before. Either one is recommended, and a lighter weight hide is favored for mild weather conditions, with the occasional "surprise" of course. The fit and feel are well worth it, and due to current exchange rates, around $200 for a custom. Nobody makes a better Wested than Wested. ;-)

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:56 pm

is the goat skin warmer than the lambskin?

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:15 pm

Generally, yes. I think that would hold true for most Indy vendor offerings. I'm just not sure if the washing process would impact the relative warmth of goatskin or not.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:26 pm

IndianaJack91 wrote:is the goat skin warmer than the lambskin?

We're basically talking about a minute difference here, but the washed goat appears to be slightly thinner than the authentic brown lamb. The authentic brown lamb is shiny, and has a new, undistressed look, while the washed goat appearance of the leather gives it a pre-distressed look.

CM · Post by CM » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:42 pm

Texan Scott wrote:
IndianaJack91 wrote:is the goat skin warmer than the lambskin?
We're basically talking about a minute difference here, but the washed goat appears to be slightly thinner than the authentic brown lamb. The authentic brown lamb is shiny, and has a new, undistressed look, while the washed goat appearance of the leather gives it a pre-distressed look.

Well as has been stated before, it all depends on the goat or the lamb in question. My G&B goat is warmer than most of my cow hide jackets and warmer than any lamb I have ever seen. In fact this goat is a winter jacket most of the time, with some spring days okay too. Goat can be heavy and very, very warm.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:20 am

The Todd's Standard is lamb and the hide is the thinnest of all leathers used for Indy jackets, yet it is made this thin to replicate the SA look in Raiders. Next, in terms of thickness would be the washed goat and authentic brown lamb. The USW Blue Label, colorwise is lighter, distressed cowhide and what you might consider a medium jacket in terms of thickness of the leather and weight of the jacket. The G&B goat hide is thicker leather, a medium to medium-heavy weight jacket. The USW VIP cowhide jacket is possibly the heaviest Indy jacket.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:54 am

[quote="Texan Scott"]The Todd's Standard is lamb and the hide is the thinnest of all leathers used for Indy jackets, yet it is made this thin to replicate the SA look in Raiders. quote]

No, it's thin so it can be made cheaply. The Todd custom is thicker, as is the TN Raiders, even more SA...

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:55 am

The Todd's standard is a light weight jacket, but the one I received was not cheaply made. Some have questioned the quality of Todd's standard in the past, but like others have proven when it was field tested, it has held up. Thickness of leather doesn't necessarily have anything to do with cheap, although it was clearly not made to compete with high end jackets, as it is not in that category. Yet for $150, you get a jacket that closely replicates the SA look, without destroying the wallet. In fact, Todd told me himself that a friend of his who owns a screen used Raiders jacket said that he couldn't tell the difference between a Todd's jacket and his screen used Raiders jacket. The Todd's is an option for the budget conscious, and a light weight hide for those of us who live in milder climates. There are other viable options available as well.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:12 pm

When I say cheap, I don't mean bad. Todd's whole thing was to give fans a cheap - affordable - jacket. Let's not hide from this... The better jackets are thicker. And remember the movie version was cheap and shoddy...

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:16 pm

CM wrote:When I say cheap, I don't mean bad. Todd's whole thing was to give fans a cheap - affordable - jacket. Let's not hide from this... The better jackets are thicker. And remember the movie version was cheap and shoddy...

Remember this is the jacket we all fell in love with. The quirks are all part of the character. It was a costume jacket for a movie, the ones that came after, many have survived 10 years of more of distressing and wear. Not to bad.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:04 pm

Kt Templar wrote:
CM wrote:When I say cheap, I don't mean bad. Todd's whole thing was to give fans a cheap - affordable - jacket. Let's not hide from this... The better jackets are thicker. And remember the movie version was cheap and shoddy...
Remember this is the jacket we all fell in love with. The quirks are all part of the character. It was a costume jacket for a movie, the ones that came after, many have survived 10 years of more of distressing and wear. Not to bad.

Sure Kt - my point has always been , I want one like the film jacket only better made and not as worn out. I want one to wear with jeans, not with a costume...