agent5 wrote:The pic above illustrates again the collar issue discussed a page back. You can see how it's even with the one side of the shirt collar and the other side of the jacket collar hangs quite a bit further down.
I'll have to look at my jacket in a few days when I pick it up. The collar on the so called hero jacket could be a bit different. There was obviously no uniformity to what Peter produced (sort of like today). That’s a bit harsh I should admit. There will always be slight variation. Leather jackets are hand made products. That’s just the facts of life. But it does seem like there were big differences in the original Raiders jackets. There were no design specs. There was just “include all of the design elements and slap it together”.
Still, the hero jacket might as well be locked up in that warehouse along with the Ark. “Eyeballing” a piece of gear into screen accuracy has never done it for me. I’ll stick with the facts. What we have to work with are the Terry Leonard jacket & the Martin Grace jacket as far as I’m concerned. That’s why I’ve only ever been interested in the Expedition and the TN Raiders 1. I don’t really have an interest in the other movie jackets.
agent5 wrote:The pic above illustrates again the collar issue discussed a page back. You can see how it's even with the one side of the shirt collar and the other side of the jacket collar hangs quite a bit further down.
with his left arm raised up, the entire jacket is sloping/drooping towards his right side.
agent5 wrote:The pic above illustrates again the collar issue discussed a page back. You can see how it's even with the one side of the shirt collar and the other side of the jacket collar hangs quite a bit further down.
with his left arm raised up, the entire jacket is sloping/drooping towards his right side.
That's what I saw too, but the effect is still achieved in the other pics without the arm being raised, albeit with one side of the collar raised in both of the other pics.
all of the TN1's that i have seen, including mine and the pics of tony's himself, has a collar design that sits above your shirt collar. in extreme cases where i pull my shirt collar up as high as it can go and then drop the jacket down as low as it can go......for that brief instant, they will line up.
now the temple jacket and many other grabs that you can find show a larger opening for the neck hence the larger/longer collar, and hence the collar lapels falling below the shirt collar lapels. in TOD, the jacket collar mated closer to the shirt collar. in LC, the collar was longer and sat just below the shirt collar, but not as far as raiders (and we also know that the LC collar was longer in shape).
i discussed this with tony for a lengthy period. i finalized my collar spec as: same length as CS collar but dropped down further by 1/2" on both sides. i asked for an extra 1/4" on the size of the lapels so that it doesn't look like a uniform collar stand going around my neck. i'm excited to see what comes out of it
There is an interesting parallel to all this in the military collector’s world. During WW2 there were over 20 manufactures of the A-2 flight jacket. Each manufacturer produced essentially the same jacket, but the details of each manufacture’s jackets were different. One had small pockets, another had a really squared collar, and so on.
Today collector fervor is so much that jacket manufactures reproduce specific A-2 models (even though to the average person they’re all the same). But each of these jackets has been copied from an original. There is not a repro company out there that would copy an A-2 from pictures. Even though Tony has in essence offered to give you whatever you want, you’re still on a bit of a slippery slope if you go that route. Of course as individuals, "it’s my money and I can do whatever I want”. I’m just pointing out that once you deviate from the established specs (they’re in stone at least with regards to the Martin Grace jacket), it’s precarious.
agent5 wrote:The pic above illustrates again the collar issue discussed a page back. You can see how it's even with the one side of the shirt collar and the other side of the jacket collar hangs quite a bit further down.
Tony tells me that he keeps everyone's details on all the jackets that are ordered from him. now, what details exactly, i do not know.
i understand where you are coming from as we are in danger of 'too many gearheads in the kitchen' syndrome which would ultimately bastardize the initial design that was cloned. i am hoping that Tony's records are good enough that he can distinguish if someone wants a 001/888 style or a 618/888 style jacket. is this the route that was taken with wested? their patterns have changed over the years due to customer input.
in the end, i sincerely hope that my jacket specs do not muddy the waters of what he had originally. that would make me sad.
Tony tells me that he keeps everyone's details on all the jackets that are ordered from him. now, what details exactly, i do not know.
i understand where you are coming from as we are in danger of 'too many gearheads in the kitchen' syndrome which would ultimately bastardize the initial design that was cloned. i am hoping that Tony's records are good enough that he can distinguish if someone wants a 001/888 style or a 618/888 style jacket. is this the route that was taken with wested? their patterns have changed over the years due to customer input.
in the end, i sincerely hope that my jacket specs do not muddy the waters of what he had originally. that would make me sad.
G I really don't think this is the case. I spoke with him at length last evening and he definitely knows what he had and can recreate it if no other specs are submitted. As he said, "I write everything down otherwise I forget %$#@"
Tony tells me that he keeps everyone's details on all the jackets that are ordered from him. now, what details exactly, i do not know.
i understand where you are coming from as we are in danger of 'too many gearheads in the kitchen' syndrome which would ultimately bastardize the initial design that was cloned. i am hoping that Tony's records are good enough that he can distinguish if someone wants a 001/888 style or a 618/888 style jacket. is this the route that was taken with wested? their patterns have changed over the years due to customer input.
in the end, i sincerely hope that my jacket specs do not muddy the waters of what he had originally. that would make me sad.
G I really don't think this is the case. I spoke with him at length last evening and he definitely knows what he had and can recreate it if no other specs are submitted. As he said, "I write everything down otherwise I forget %$#@"
Yeah I didn't mean to imply that Tony would eventually let his jacket morph into something else over time based on our collective input. Also I wasn't specifically targeting G's project with my comments. I was talking in generalities. Cheers
Yeah I didn't mean to imply that Tony would eventually let his jacket morph into something else over time based on our collective input. Also I wasn't specifically targeting G's project with my comments. I was talking in generalities. Cheers
come on adam.......you know i take everything personally!!!! ;-)
i don't know about you, but i'm interested to see what all these new jackets are going to look like and the customer reviews of them......the 'post-bink' jackets
Indiana G wrote:i don't know about you, but i'm interested to see what all these new jackets are going to look like and the customer reviews of them......the 'post-bink' jackets
"post-bink?" What, my jacket has become the standard now? HA! As I've said to everyone who has asked me, I just let Tony do his thing. I know I couldn't be happier with my jacket, but I also told the same folks that some wouldn't be happy if Ford handed them the jacket off his back. Tony knows what he has, and I know what I have because of it. This jacket seems to sell itself because I haven't told a single person to buy this jacket. They've just seen my pictures and contacted me based off of that. I've been willing to share my personal opinions, but it's always been up to the individual to make that decision.
I also agree with Adam about people wanting so many changes that it ends up not being the direct jacket he copied, but an idealized jacket, like the majority of Indy jackets out there. However, I don't think Tony will ever stop producing the clone, even if he still makes "better" jackets for people.
indyrocks wrote:I wonder if the secret source will ever be divulged......
Oh, the things I could tell you... but can't/won't. But as I've said before, I have every reason to believe this is THE jacket.
Oh the pain!!
How do I get to be in the club of knowers of things??!! I guess I'll just shut my mouth and wait for my jacket and just enjoy it. Maybe I should fly to the West coast and see if Tony would tell me in person. I could bring a bottle of wine.....
I vaguely remember that but don't have the patience to read through all these pages again. A producer I believe it was (not Mr Sparks) but THE producer....
binkmeisterRick wrote: This jacket seems to sell itself because I haven't told a single person to buy this jacket. They've just seen my pictures and contacted me based off of that. I've been willing to share my personal opinions, but it's always been up to the individual to make that decision.
I find this hard to believe. I'm almost sure that I felt the pull of hypnotic suggestion as I read your pm. ;-)
I'm getting a bit confused here. There seems to be a lot of talk about trusting Tony to "just do his thing" while at the same time requesting certain pocket details like the piping and placement. So, am I right in assuming Slydini is the ONLY customer who has an EXACT replica of the jacket Tony had, and all others are personalized deviations?
This has driven me crazy this evening and I, in turn, have probably driven Tony crazy (or will when he reads his inbox). I sent 3 emails to Tony trying to determine the length of my jacket. I'm right at 6' 1" with the majority of that being torso. For instance, my CS jacket is 28 inches long in back and hits between my belt and the top of my back pockets.
Chris' post on where his jacket hit him at the top of his belt line spooked me bad as I would not be comfortable in a jacket that fit there. But I look at Rick's jacket and his hits him perfectly to me and he told me he only sent his measurements, no other changes.
In the end, I ended up right where I started. I gave Tony my measurements, told him I was getting out of the kitchen and just going to let him cook up my jacket.
Bink can you post a detail of your pockets ,or are they like the shrunken lamb with the jacket group......think mine and Indy G's are what he's using as standard (per G sending KT specs)......love mine still, looking forward to seeing G's new one and all the other "post Bink jackets".....Hatch
Satipo wrote:I'm getting a bit confused here. There seems to be a lot of talk about trusting Tony to "just do his thing" while at the same time requesting certain pocket details like the piping and placement. So, am I right in assuming Slydini is the ONLY customer who has an EXACT replica of the jacket Tony had, and all others are personalized deviations?
Mine will be a "replica" done in my size. Tony made sure to ask if I wanted one done like the one he saw/copied (with all it's shortcomings). The shortcomings are what make the jacket cool, and Tony agrees. One of these “shortcomings” is how the back panel rides up.
Hatch, as I mentioned a page or so back, the shrunken lamb shown in the Nowak comparison thread IS my jacket, so the pockets shown are from my jacket.
crismans, if you are ordering Ford's measurements, that is what you will get. If you are ordering a jacket to fit YOUR measurements (like I did) you'll be fine.
;-)
Rundquist, I think you've got it right, ordering a replica done to your size.
I think from the photos and film we see a jacket that is not too short. Sometimes it makes us wonder if Wested makes them too short (shorter than the film) so, for the jacket to appear long on HF, then his torso had to be too short.
From his speedo photos I don't think this is the case.
Also, if you compare photos of the Raiders jacket with photos of TOD jacket (i.e. the NH jacket which we know is 1 inch longer than Wested's Raiders 40) then you will see there is no great difference which makes the length of the TN jacket way off.
On the other hand, I think Bink's jacket has OK length, but the collar is not as long as it should be and perhaps as a result the storm flap length is too large.
I'm hoping to get exactly what Slydni got, pockets and all. I made NO REQUESTS whatsoever and asked for exactly what he had in his hands, except in a different leather.
This has been discussed somewhere before, but... Could it just be a matter of the costume making Ford into literally a Harry Highpants in terms of his belt height? Thus the "short torso" issue is part illusion.
Maybe he does have a slightly short torso (though not much judging by the nudie pics), but if the belt was worn at waist level, the second belt actually creates the illusion of a more modern look.
This has been discussed somewhere before, but... Could it just be a matter of the costume making Ford into literally a Harry Highpants in terms of his belt height? Thus the "short torso" issue is part illusion.
Maybe he does have a slightly short torso (though not much judging by the nudie pics), but if the belt was worn at waist level, the second belt actually creates the illusion of a more modern look.
Satipo wrote:I've always been under the impression Ford was slightly long in the torso.
Some of that has to do with how low his trousers were in Raiders. (This was discussed somewhere a while back.) If it were period correct, his trousers would've been high-waisted.
He just looks like a normal dude (to 2008 eyes), though it would be handy to see shots of him in the full garb with belts and the jacket. He could be dressed here to look "deflated" given the point in the plot.
Tony told you, you will have your jacket in 11 days ??
I asked for a guesstimate and he said 12 (my mistake on the 11) days or so. It's not written in stone by any means (I ordered mine last Friday).
crismans, if you are ordering Ford's measurements, that is what you will get. If you are ordering a jacket to fit YOUR measurements (like I did) you'll be fine.
That's what I ended up doing. Tony emailed me back and said he'd call (I'm sure to give me the telephone equivalent of Zanex. And yes, I now get what you're saying, Sir. I've gone and done what I try my hardest not to do which is read something and fly off the handle without thinking about what I've read. Just imagine this to infinity and you'll get what I'm feeling once I remembered the specs used for Chris King's jacket. ;-)
And allow me to muddy the waters further. It was always my impression that Tony had 2 jackets to look over. I thought Slydini's was a copy of the Leather Concessionaires jacket that Tony got from Sparks and the jacket that Hatch, Bink, etc. own was a copy of the Hawaiian jacket, the one Tony refers to as "the jacket that matters". I'm guessing I'm way off base here. Let me know by how much. ;-)
Indiana Williams wrote:Wow, not one comment about the photos I posted I gotta say folks Im really suprised. Tony was very adamant that I get these posted ASAP so you all could see.
Great photos. Just seeing them now.
Terry is wearing a CS jacket I presume
If Tony say 11 days per jacket that's mean I will get mine next week
I doubt it at this point. He's starting to get a lot of orders, not to mention all the time that he spends on the phone talking to gearheads. I'd go by whatever he told you and be thankful if it doesn't end up taking longer. ;-)
{waiting for _, michaelson and rundquist to drop the torches and pitchforks and go home}
Oh well, I'll just shut my mouth and wait the jacket.....
he realy looks baggy here
to infinity and you'll get what I'm feeling once I remembered the specs used for Chris King's jacket. ;-)