Alden's For Back Problems?

Zombie Jones · Post by **Zombie Jones** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:05 am

Without going into a long (and boring) explanation, I'm currently experiencing a condition known as Post Laminectomy Syndrome (chronic pain following surgery to repair a herniated disc in the back). While I've read several threads in which members have commented on Alden 405s ability to reduce/relieve foot pain, it hadn't occurred to me that they might also help to relieve back pain until I read J!m's post in the thread about Todd's Costumes new Indy boots:

J!m wrote:When you buy the Aldens, you get a custom fitted orthontic shoe. Wear it for 12 hours standing on concrete and tell me how your back doesn't hurt.

So my question is this--has anyone who wears Aldens regularly found they've helped to reduce or eliminate any back problems you might have? I fully realize the importance of proper fit and obtaining the correct size, and I'll cross that bridge when/if I come to it. But I would most sincerely appreciate any opinions or experience you could share.

Thanks!

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:14 am

Yes! For me they work well. I have a pinched nerve in my left leg and often have issues with stairs, etc. But, the Aldens seem to keep me more on balance and assist with comfort, especially on trips out of town and so forth where I end up on my feet all the time. So, it certainly is worth a try! W>

Scott63 · Post by **Scott63** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:16 pm

Yep, same for me. I've had back problems for several years, and spend a lot of time on my feet at work. I've been wearing Aldens regularly for over a year, and they really seem to help.

Scott

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:48 pm

Wearing Aldens for a long time gives me tired feet. After a while, they feel like bricks. Without some orthotics, I can never wear my Aldens.

Zombie Jones · Post by **Zombie Jones** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:36 am

PSBIndy wrote:Wearing Aldens for a long time gives me tired feet. After a while, they feel like bricks. Without some orthotics, I can never wear my Aldens.

If I may ask, what in your opinion is the contributing factor--the way the soles are constructed, lack of cushion, the weight of the shoes, or something else? Or a combination of some or all of the above? BTW, thank you for your response; I value well-written negative reviews (i.e., something other than "They ****!") as much as positive reviews.

And thank you WConly and Scott63 for sharing your experiences as well, I truly appreciate it!

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:15 am

I can tell you they are quite heavy, some folks who aren't used to boots, will notice it big time. Also, they have zero cushion in them. They have plenty of room for cushion insoles, which would be a must, IMO, for a back condtion. Also, the soles are quite hard as well. Inside, the bottom of the shoe is completely flat, no arch, etc., so this is where, once again, the insole comes into play. They can be made comfortable with insoles, but out of the box, they are pretty plain.

Hope this helps.

TR

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:02 pm

Texas Raider wrote:I can tell you they are quite heavy, some folks who aren't used to boots, will notice it big time. Also, they have zero cushion in them. They have plenty of room for cushion insoles, which would be a must, IMO, for a back condtion. Also, the soles are quite hard as well. Inside, the bottom of the shoe is completely flat, no arch, etc., so this is where, once again, the insole comes into play. They can be made comfortable with insoles, but out of the box, they are pretty plain.

Hope this helps.

TR

wow, this really opened my eyes. I'm looking at the Aldens for the same reason- spine injury- because I thought they were an 'orthotic' shoe, ie- cushioned, supportive shoe.

TomK · Post by **TomK** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:49 pm

I have a pair of AF64s. They have a Vibram sole so perhaps they feel different from the standard model. I've worn boots regularly over the years so I don't feel them at all heavy, but they are the most comfortable, supportive boots I've ever worn. My feet are particularly sensitive since I had surgery a few years ago and these boots are perfect for me.

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:53 pm

Kokopelli wrote:
Texas Raider wrote:I can tell you they are quite heavy, some folks who aren't used to boots, will notice it big time. Also, they have zero cushion in them. They have plenty of room for cushion insoles, which would be a must, IMO, for a back condtion. Also, the soles are quite hard as well. Inside, the bottom of the shoe is completely flat, no arch, etc., so this is where, once again, the insole comes into play. They can be made comfortable with insoles, but out of the box, they are pretty plain.

Hope this helps.

TR
wow, this really opened my eyes. I'm looking at the Aldens for the same reason- spine injury- because I thought they were an 'orthotic' shoe, ie- cushioned, supportive shoe.

They are on orthotic shoe, but only in the sense that they are built to support orthotic insoles. They are made with the trubalance last platform, LOTS of support,, but still need orthotics for any kind of spine,knee,ankle, etc. issues. Don't get turned off by this info, they are an excellent boot, they just need your custom insole added ;-)

TR

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:36 pm

You might even get your insurance company to pay for some of the total cost since they would be for medical purposes. It's worth checking out.

Zombie Jones · Post by **Zombie Jones** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:47 am

Wow, the information you've all shared is extremely valuable as far as I'm concerned, and it's exactly what I was looking for! A few comments I'd like to address:

Texas Raider wrote:I can tell you they are quite heavy, some folks who aren't used to boots, will notice it big time. Also, they have zero cushion in them. They have plenty of room for cushion insoles, which would be a must, IMO, for a back condtion. Also, the soles are quite hard as well. Inside, the bottom of the shoe is completely flat, no arch, etc., so this is where, once again, the insole comes into play. They can be made comfortable with insoles, but out of the box, they are pretty plain...They are on orthotic shoe, but only in the sense that they are built to support orthotic insoles. They are made with the trubalance last platform, LOTS of support, but still need orthotics for any kind of spine, knee, ankle, etc. issues. Don't get turned off by this info, they are an excellent boot, they just need your custom insole added.

I have no problem with "heavy" boots with flat insoles and little or no cushion. I've worn steel-toed work boots and/or motorcycle boots that typically have no cushion and no arch support for more than two decades now (long before I developed my current back problems), so I'm used to this type of footwear; in fact, I find shoes with anything more than a minor amount of arch support to be extremely uncomfortable.

As far as orthotics or custom insoles, at this point I have neither. At one point it was discovered my right hip is 1/4" lower than my left, so the only "orthotic" I have is a 1/4" pad in the heel of my right shoe/boot. It's one of those "Try this for a couple of months to see how it works" issues that has become a long-term requirement for me.

Kokopelli wrote:I'm looking at the Aldens for the same reason- spine injury- because I thought they were an 'orthotic' shoe, ie- cushioned, supportive shoe.

I can understand why Alden would design shoes that would accomodate orthotics rather than incorporate them, as each individual's orthotic requirements are unique. Alden would have to know the wearer's specific requirements in order to create shoes that meet those needs, so every pair of shoes would have to be custom made. Also, with the way our bodies change, a tailor-made pair of shoes with built-in orthotics could become unwearable in a few short years. It makes more sense for them to create shoes/boots that allow for orthotics that could be replaced as the wearer's needs change.

agent5 wrote:You might even get your insurance company to pay for some of the total cost since they would be for medical purposes. It's worth checking out.

My wife and I are members of an HMO, so who knows. But it's definitely worth looking into, and I appreciate the suggestion!

RichardSK · Post by **RichardSK** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:25 pm

I have degenerative disk disease and arthritisin my feet, knees and hips. I wear an 11 1/2 EEE in my 405's. I wear my Alden's at every opportunity that I can and I am able to do 5 miles hikes more easily in my Alden's than if I were to wear running shoes. I prefer the support and solid comfort of the boots for my back and feet.

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:33 pm

Here are some really good insoles for Aldens. They have a lot of cushion, very good arch and are thin enough in the toe area to not take up too much room, but still have some cushion. AND they look pretty dang good in the boots, as they are suede like material with NO logos on the top, so they look like proper ;-) I like them. They are for back issues, they also make them for knee problems- Good ol' Dr. Schols- LOL,,took pictures of the package in the store, and my smelly old ones at home ;-)

[img][img]http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5597/insolesmagazines001bp3.th.jpg[/img][/img] [img][url=http://img515.imageshack.us ... .jpg[/img][/img][/url]

[img][img]http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4708/insolesmagazines003vt3.th.jpg[/img][/img] [img][url=http://img515.imageshack.us ... .jpg[/img][/img][/url]

[img][img]http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8223/insolesmagazines006lo1.th.jpg[/img][/img] [img][url=http://img515.imageshack.us ... .jpg[/img][/img][/url]

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:22 pm

agent5 wrote:You might even get your insurance company to pay for some of the total cost since they would be for medical purposes. It's worth checking out.

I checked with my insurance -Anthem Blue Cross/Shield, and I have coverage for orthopedic shoes, they pay 80% of the cost! I just have to submit the receipt with a claim form and they reimburse me.
-Not bad.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:31 pm

It's been done for many folks in the past.

Regards! Michaelson

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:23 pm

Hey all, I was pointed to this thread by a member I will leave nameless (he can certainly identify himself if he wishes). But I want to talk about Aldens, arch supports, and body ailments. First off, I am NOT a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, but what I am is a guy who has been selling shoes for a lot of years, with a LOT of focus on back and joint problems and foot ailments. It is not my intention to open any proverbial cans of worms here, I am only offering my knowledge of feet and footwear. That being said, here I go.

The 405's ARE designed as ORTHOPEDIC shoes. What does that mean? They are built up in areas where MOST shoes are not, to offer greater support. What are these areas you ask? First, they are VERY heavy, by heavy I mean stiff (well, weight too, but this time I mean stiff) a stiffer shoe offers more support. Why? You may ask, and I will answer that later. Secondly, they have what are called Extended heel counters. A heel counter is the solid piece of leather or fiberboard around the back of the heel. On most shoes, they don't go very far out, on the 405's they go out much much farther. Or further? Well, which ever, they are longer. That helps keep our heel in place and gives us more HEEL SUPPORT. Thirdly, if you flip them over, you will notice that the heels are shaped kinda curvy like Heidi Klum

(sigh, I love her)...Anyhoo, the curve goes more under the inside of your foot, this is to keep you from pronating or rolling your ankles (and consequently your arches) in, hence giving you more stability.

Now on to the subject of Arches...you hear the word, most people think of fast food that is moderately tasty and will eventually kill you, unless you live in St. Louis, then...well, nevermind. What I am talking about are shoe arches and foot arches. And what they do for you.

Foot Arches: We have several arches in our feet, but we will be discussing the metatarsal arch, and the longitudinal arch. The first one, goes side to side under the ball of your foot, the other one is the one that runs front to back. Our feet are designed (more or less) to take the weight of our body, and distribute it over a few square inches. The weight comes down the backs of our legs, to our heels, where it is then shifted forward on to our longitudinal arch then across our metatarsal arch. Now, you may be asking yourself "what does that mean exactly?" well, people with higher arches are generally better off. Better off meaning their feet (generally) get tired a lot less faster than someone with low arches or flat feet. Now, I happen to have low arches and I am horizontally gifted (read:overweight) so my feet should be killing me after a 15 hour sale of running up and down stairs and dealing with incredibly stupid people and their bratty screaming snot nosed kids...oh sorry, got off topic ;-)

Anyway, I can run stairs for 15 hours a day for a week and other than being physically and mentally exhausted my feet are more or less OK. Now I will agree that the cushioning thing for some can be a problem which brings me to my next topic...

SHOE ARCHES

The first thing I want to do is clear up a very common misconception about "shoe arches". Because you look inside a shoe and don't see a giant foam rubber hump in the shoe, doesn't mean it doesn't have arch support. REAL arch support in a shoe comes from the way a shoe is constructed. If you look at a shoe and see a welt on it ( not a welt like a nun would give you when she smacked you with the sharp side of a ruler) but the thig around the side of a shoe where it is stitched together, that offers support, the fact that a shoe is as stiff as a board (but not necessarily light as a feather) gives it support (and I will explain why in a second, Promise) The fact that a shoe TIES as opposed to being a slip on gives it support. And Here's the explanation.

The Welt: The stitches pull the leather underneath your foot, making a little "arch" or cradle of sorts.

The laces: The better a shoe fits, the more support it offers, a tie shoe has better fitting properties as there is more control over the way it fits, and also, the lacing draws the leather under your foot up, adding to the "cradle" effect mentioned above.

Thirdly and perhaps the most important thing is the stiffness of the shoe. This is difficult to explain...imagine the underside of your foot like a bridge.

if it's not on something solid, it wobbles and there goes the bridge (I'm also not an engineer, so bear with me) but if you look at that bridge, and imagine it bolted down to a 2x4, it's not going anywhere. A welt makes a shoe stiffer, and when it's stiffer, your foot is supported more. If that makes sense. Now, you may be asking me "Then why do my New Balance, Nikes, K-Swiss, Addidas, Converse, Reeboks, Kangaroos, Zips, what-have-you's, have a big ol foam rubber arch in them?" Take your athletic shoes, and try and twist them, go on, grab the toe, and the heel and wring them like you would a sponge...the twist quite a bit probably. This is because they are built on a cement construction ( i.e. glued together) contrary to what the advertising folks at the athletic shoe companies would have you believe, their products are not the end all be all in arch support. The foam doo-dads are put in there because the shoes don't have a heck of a lot of support otherwise. But they DO have cushioning. Which I will admit the 405's lack. So can you run in the 405's. Sure Indy did. But would I recommend doing the Boston Marathon in them...probably not. Yes, support will help with your back and your knees and everything else (provided your shoes fit properly Not Too Short) and regardless of what you may hear otherwise Do NOT buy the 405's a half size down. I can almost guarantee that the ball of your foot will be sitting to far forward in the shoe rather than at the spot it was designed to sit at and you will end up uncomfortable. But to each his own. I am also not necessarily saying "don't wear orthodics" if your physician has prescribed them, it's for a reason. By all means use them. But just be careful when getting shoes as you are putting a foreign object in your shoe, it will take up space away from your foot, so if you were a 10 D before, with orthos, you may be a 10 E or a 10 1/2 D...there is no such thing as a standard size, so play around with it until you are comfortable. And if you need "Dr. Scholls" cushions in your 405's...crybaby!! Just kidding. That's all for tonight class, I want to see if my candidate is closer to becoming president of this country, AND I have to check my myspace page!! any questions, please PM me, I will do my best to help you.

Schmidty

Zombie Jones · Post by **Zombie Jones** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:55 am

That's all well and good, Schmidty, but do you know anything about shoes? ;-)

Wow, that's a wealth of information! I know more now about shoes than I ever thought I would. With all the information you've all shared in this thread, I'm considering a pair of Alden's now more than ever before. At this point the only deterring factor for me is the price, since (because of my back) I've had no income for nearly two years. But I think it's time to talk to my doctor to get his opinion on the matter. Regardless of whether my insurance will help defray some of the cost, I think a pair of Alden's would be a good investment; they certainly couldn't make things any worse.

Again, my most sincere appreciation and thanks to each and every one of you for sharing your opinions and experiences!

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:47 am

Schmidty is a great guy who really knows his product, and always goes out of his way to be sure you get the best fit.

I think his 'epic' (and beautifully illustrated) post will help some people understand why the Aldens came with a premium price tag...

As always, if there are questions, just ask Schmidty!

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:13 am

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:24 am

schmidty612 wrote: First off, I am NOT a doctor, nor do I play one on TV......
Schmidty

I did hear he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.....

Excellent explaination, my friend. Thanks!

HIGH regard! Michaelson

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:40 am

Michaelson,
I was laughing at your post so hard, I couldn't even calm myself down to read it to my wife!! What a great morning laugh! Thanks, my friend.

I wanted to be thorough without going in to too much detail and putting you folks to sleep. Should I have added more pictures (Heidi Klum for example?)

Seriously, I hope this helps everyone. But I am happy to go over parts of it again if necessary (emoticon blowing his brains out).

Schmidty

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:43 am

Heidi's photo is always welcome...

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:45 pm

schmidty612 wrote:Michaelson,
I was laughing at your post so hard, I couldn't even calm myself down to read it to my wife!! What a great morning laugh! Thanks, my friend. Schmidty

We're here to serve, my friend! ;-)

Regards! Michaelson

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:06 am

Schmidty,

That was GREAT information. Not to mention entertaining....have you considered writing a book? Especially an informative book. You make things much more interesting..normally I would've skipped reading most of all that but you kept my attention. Bravo!!

Thanks again,

Jack

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:59 am

J!m, FTFY. Now the post is Heidi-centric!! Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to find a picture of her on the internet that is suitable enough for a family-friendly forum? A challenge indeed.

backstagejack, I don't know that I have ever received such a complement in my life. Thank You, Sir!!

Schmidty

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:02 pm

schmidty612 wrote: backstagejack, I don't know that I have ever received such a complement in my life. Thank You, Sir!!
Schmidty

I take it us saying your mother was a hampster and your father smelled of elderberries was not well received.....

Regards! Michaelson

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:00 pm

"Oh... He must be the king."

"How do you know that?"

"well, he isn't all covered in ####!"

"Ohhhh..."

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:02 pm

Luke Warmwater · Post by **Luke Warmwater** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:39 pm

Now that I think on it, I haven't been to my chiropractor since I satrted wearing my Aldens daily.

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:12 pm

Michaelson, Go and boil your bottom, son-of -a-silly person, I blow my nose at you!! Once again, Michaelson, I am laughing at your post to the point I have to wipe tears from my eyes!! One of my favorite Non-Indy Movies!!!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:12 am

Python's 'Holy Grail' and 'The Princess Bride' are the official shadow favorites of this site, I'm happy to say.

It's been interesting to note that most all Indy gearheads who come here are always familiar with those two films too!

We should probably make those two films required viewing as requirements before joining this site. ;-)

"And I blow my nose in your general direction, you silly K-nig-it!:[

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:53 pm

schmidty612 wrote:
Schmidty

uh...I thought I had something to add....now I can't remember.

Zombie Jones · Post by **Zombie Jones** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:28 pm

Michaelson wrote:Python's 'Holy Grail' and 'The Princess Bride' are the official shadow favorites of this site, I'm happy to say.

It's been interesting to note that most all Indy gearheads who come here are always familiar with those two films too!

We should probably make those two films required viewing as requirements before joining this site. ;-)

As you wish. As long as you remember strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. ;-)

Ni!

whipitgood · Post by **whipitgood** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:37 pm

I totally forgot what this thread is about as I went straight to the Heidi Klum picture. Hubba hubba

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:51 pm

It's about quoting Monty Python and the Holy Grail and looking at a fabulously hot German Woman, I think...I know I wrote some something about Aldens and back problems, but with Heidi, does it really matter?

These are the topics of worth though

and

if you can glean any information after that. You have a stronger will than I.