TONY NOWAK IS REPLICATING AN ORIGINAL RAIDERS JACKET!!

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:08 pm

agent5 wrote:
It's like I'm back at my 8th grade lunch table.
You are, complete with spilled milk, classroom bullies and all.

Quiet you, or I'll kick your ###.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:11 pm

Louisiana Jones wrote:After reading through only a third of this thread... Louisiana Jones will now kill himself. It's like I'm back at my 8th grade lunch table.

LJ

Only 1/3? Wait until you read the whole thread

Indiana Williams · Post by **Indiana Williams** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:08 am

Well tomorrow is my trip to the happiest place on earth, not Disneyland, Tony's shop. he called me up earlier tonight and said hes finished with one of the spec'ed out Raiders jackets, Im assuming its Gs. I told him on the phone that I can get a custom jacket from alot of vendors and that I would only be interested in an exact replica of the magical raiders jacket he copied.
BTW-I flat out asked him about this "3rd" jacket and he denied having access to another jacket besides the 2 already mentioned. Im going mainly to see what kind of jacket Ill be getting. If I find out some of the prestige Ill try to shed light on it if I can but if Tony tells me something in confidence then I wont betray his trust. Ill be sure to take plenty of pics.
Best Regards,
Joe

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:34 am

OK so he just had the Martin Grace jacket and the Leather concessionaires.... Interesting! thanks I W !

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:41 am

Guys, the 3rd jacket was just something that I threw out there. _ already confirmed that it was only 2 jackets.

Don't want my theory to be taken as fact!

According to _'s source - Tony got the Martin Grace jacket and the Leather Concessionaires jacket (which is reported as being THE Hero).

Chris

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:44 am

Chris_King wrote:Guys, the 3rd jacket was just something that I threw out there. _ already confirmed that it was only 2 jackets.

Don't want my theory to be taken as fact!

According to _'s source - Tony got the Martin Grace jacket and the Leather Concessionaires jacket (which is reported as being THE Hero).
Chris

HUH! than i'm even more confused because the first jakcet of 888 looked just like a leather concessionares jacket/ early wested. And the 2nd one looks EXACTLY like todd's jacket, ( details on the back and the pocket flap what I could see so far.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:12 am

_ wrote

I have to laugh my friend - the definitive statement that it had nothing to do with something... I’m gonna let that one die on its own…

My friend, are we taling about this jacket?

This is the Butterfields auction jacket isn't it?
Not definively but judging from the pics the leather doesn't look like croco to and the rest of the details seem to be off. Don't you think?

It looks like the Raven bar jacket though.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:32 am

Isn't that a Last Crusade jacket there Platon?

Regards,

Marc

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:45 am

No, it has no snaps if I well see...

Post by **Holt** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:55 am

that aint the last crusade jacket.ot looks nothing like it.

I am pretty sure its the Raiders at Butterfields

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:02 am

Holt, do you think it's the same jacket of that catalogue cover?

Post by **Holt** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:04 am

yes I am 98% sure its the saem one.

look at the corner crease on the right pocket.(left for us from here)

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:05 am

Yes, I perfectly see that crease. I'm very puzzled because the cover jacket looks a LC to my eyes...

Post by **Holt** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:08 am

no.it cant be....the wrong collar.wrong pockets.wrong cut.

but...I cant say a 100% sure..the distressing is pretty LC..but when you watch raiders some of the jackets had a little LC style distressing on them..

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:10 am

Yes, probably you're right Holt. It's only a very similar distressing and colour. I would love to have that catalogue to see good pics.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:15 am

Man, these pockets look BIG!!!

Regards,

Marc

Post by **Holt** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:19 am

look at the pockets my friend. ;-)

pretty big to.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:20 am

no.it cant be....the wrong collar.wrong pockets.wrong cut.

but...I cant say a 100% sure..the distressing is pretty LC..but when you watch raiders some of the jackets had a little LC style distressing on them..

Can I remind you that the Butterfields auction might have took place before LC was in the theaters? Anyone here remembers date?

Marc, the pockets are big, but if you watch the 4th dvd the making of Raiders take note of the pockets in the Raven bar, they are very big like these.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:48 am

It's just my opinion that the pic above posted by Holt is a victim of perspective. I don't think they're that big but the placement and angle of the camera is making it appear bigger.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:03 am

It's just my opinion that the pic above posted by Holt is a victim of perspective. I don't think they're that big but the placement and angle of the camera is making it appear bigger.

Can't be my friend, can't be. Notice how close to the storm flap is the pocket located. This can't be a result of perspective. Also the width of the storm flap seems more than what we are used too.

I think this is another jacket, not the hero, not the one he's wearing at the dock in front of the Bantu Wind, but another...

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:38 am

I believe that side of the jacket is pulling over a bit, causing it to look as thought the pocket is close to the storm flap when it really isn't. Look at the giant crease caused by the drape coming down from the shoulder to the top of the pocket. It's being pulled over. I think it's all an illusion. Could be wrong, of course, but this is how I see it.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:43 am

My thoughts as well Jason!

Heck, Ford's HEAD would fit into that pocket if it truly would be that big

Regards,

Marc

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:48 am

PLATON wrote: Can I remind you that the Butterfields auction might have took place before LC was in the theaters? Anyone here remembers date?

The catalogue cover is from a 1994 auction.

Entertainment Memorabilia: Highlights from the Western Costume 'Star Collection' Part III. December 3 & 4 1994.

866 lots.

Featured Movies: Batman, Indiana Jones, The Last Starfighter, The Sound Of Music.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:20 am

Dutch_jones wrote:
Chris_King wrote:Guys, the 3rd jacket was just something that I threw out there. _ already confirmed that it was only 2 jackets.

Don't want my theory to be taken as fact!

According to _'s source - Tony got the Martin Grace jacket and the Leather Concessionaires jacket (which is reported as being THE Hero).
Chris
HUH! than i'm even more confused because the first jakcet of 888 looked just like a leather concessionares jacket/ early wested. And the 2nd one looks EXACTLY like todd's jacket, ( details on the back and the pocket flap what I could see so far.

Hatch's jacket was made the same as slydini's with customer requested specifications.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:25 am

And I'm greatful for your help in realizing what we want and Tony's ability to listen to customers....Hatch

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:29 am

Still the jacket on the pictures LOOKS very different from the TN 1st because the pockets on that aren't that big.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:51 am

I wonder what specs Hatch gave him for the pockets.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:58 am

Hatch wrote:And I'm greatful for your help in realizing what we want and Tony's ability to listen to customers....Hatch

the pocket design that i sent to tony came from here actually. i think KT may have done the schematic on it.....yes KT, i've used your wested knowledge for evil!!!

.....you know i owe you more than one my friend. ;-)

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:07 am

And was used for mine I believe also, so we both owe you.......Hatch

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:33 am

Indiana G wrote:
Hatch wrote:And I'm greatful for your help in realizing what we want and Tony's ability to listen to customers....Hatch

the pocket design that i sent to tony came from here actually. i think KT may have done the schematic on it.....yes KT, i've used your wested knowledge for evil!!! .....you know i owe you more than one my friend. ;-)

I think we may have to rename you Indiana Vader.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:41 pm

So judging by the picture of the butterfields auction jacket I still cannot see this dino hide texture... What is up with that?

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:12 pm

PLATON wrote:
It's just my opinion that the pic above posted by Holt is a victim of perspective. I don't think they're that big but the placement and angle of the camera is making it appear bigger.
Can't be my friend, can't be. Notice how close to the storm flap is the pocket located. This can't be a result of perspective. Also the width of the storm flap seems more than what we are used too.

I think this is another jacket, not the hero, not the one he's wearing at the dock in front of the Bantu Wind, but another...

Yes and Ford's face really is that long and fat in real life and in other pics. Anyone without tunnel vision can see that there's funky stuff happening in that picture. It should not be referenced again.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:56 pm

Rundquist wrote:
PLATON wrote:
It's just my opinion that the pic above posted by Holt is a victim of perspective. I don't think they're that big but the placement and angle of the camera is making it appear bigger.
Can't be my friend, can't be. Notice how close to the storm flap is the pocket located. This can't be a result of perspective. Also the width of the storm flap seems more than what we are used too.

I think this is another jacket, not the hero, not the one he's wearing at the dock in front of the Bantu Wind, but another...
Yes and Ford's face really is that long and fat in real life and in other pics. Anyone without tunnel vision can see that there's funky stuff happening in that picture. It should not be referenced again.

okay,

lets outline all of the differences between this jacket and the expedition:

{from rundquist}

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:24 pm

PLATON wrote:_ wrote

I have to laugh my friend - the definitive statement that it had nothing to do with something... I’m gonna let that one die on its own…

My friend, are we taling about this jacket?

This is the Butterfields auction jacket isn't it?
Not definively but judging from the pics the leather doesn't look like croco to and the rest of the details seem to be off. Don't you think?

It looks like the Raven bar jacket though.

It might just be the pictures but those pockets and flaps look different side to side.

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:58 pm

Again, it goes to show that the older 90s Westeds were indeed a lot more SA than most gearheads care to admit, folks. The cargo pocket size are a good indication.

The newer Wested's (as are Todd's) pockets are much smaller and squared off. Notice the Martin Grace jacket has no piping either, like the Wested. The collar is another example of this.

Conclusion? This must be another one of those Bantu Wind 'early' jackets without the subsequent modifications. If TN got two jackets: from the start and the other from the middle of filming, he must be really confused!

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:02 pm

This photo of the Martin Grace (Butterfield auction) jacket clarifies something - TN obviously didn't copy the jacket otherwise the leather type, pocket shape, placement and details of jacket #001/888 would match this photo from the Butterfield auction.

That must mean that he DID use the Leather Concessionaires (Hero) jacket so I can only assume that the details on the hero are the same as we can see on his jacket #001/888?

I don't understand why he told people that the Leather Concessionaires jacket was discounted when in fact it was THE hero jacket and obviously different to the Martin Grace jacket.

Hopefully _ or Indiana Williams will be able to shed some light on this when they've spoken with / visited Tony.

Chris

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:23 pm

I just found the text from the Butterfield & Butterfield auction catalog. Interesting to note that the jacket is sized at 38-40

Here's the text:

Item #5562
Harrison Ford Jacket from "Raiders of the Lost Ark"
Paramount, 1981
Deep brown kid leather bomber jacket with flat pockets with scalloped detailing on front left and right. Zipper closure, buckles on lower slits and inside right breast pocket. Jacket has intentional distress. Harrison Ford's leather jacket has become a trademark of the swashbuckling adverturer Indiana Jones in the Indiana Jones Trilogy. From the first film in the trilogy. Together with photograph still and letter of authenticity.
Size: 38-40
Estimate: $6,000/$7,000

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:29 pm

Right breast pocket?

Like the LC jacket...

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:34 pm

if it were $7K now, there'd be a bunch of us fighting for it.

...and if i won it. i'd send it to tony to have it replicated....

....with some of my personal specs to make it more SA ;-)

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:38 pm

Hehe...

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:44 pm

But HOW do we know the Leather concessionaires jacket is the "hero" jacket? What proof is there on that?

The way I see it, that first jacket 001/888 was copied of an earlier wested jacket, pretty similar to Sebas's jacket ( the Leather concessionaires jacket). I don't know I still don't get it, the story changes so many times.
The 2nd jacket looks like the same pattern on a todd's standard jacket, but not at all the Martin Grace jacket.

And I still don't get the leather thing.

junior · Post by **junior** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:03 pm

i thought this particular jacket, from Butterfield, was once talked about years ago.....and it was determined to be a Crusade, not from Raiders and that the people who did the text goofed it up. Am I off on this? One of you Hall of Famers care to express your thoughts?

junior

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:08 pm

_'s source - "Frank - the delivery boy" told him that he hand delivered the Leather Concessionaires "Hero" jacket AND the Martin Grace jacket personally to TN.
No photographic evidence to go on at the moment - just the conversation that _ had with his source "Frank".

As discussed earlier, it seems that the Leather Concessionaires jacket was THE hero on loan from Lucas and the reason it's got a Leather Concessionaires label in it is because it never went through Bermans and Nathans before being delivered. Apparently, it went straight to Deborah Nadoolman before it was tagged with a B&N label, then Deborah distressed it and gave it to Ford for the first day of filming at La Rochelle.

That's my understanding of the "facts" that we know so far.

Something just occurred to me which would be interesting to hear an answer for. Why would this source deliver 2 jackets to TN? You'd think that if the hero was going to be made available, it pretty much rules out the need for using a stunt jacket.

Dutch_jones wrote:But HOW do we know the Leather concessionaires jacket is the "hero" jacket? What proof is there on that?

The way I see it, that first jacket 001/888 was copied of an earlier wested jacket, pretty similar to Sebas's jacket ( the Leather concessionaires jacket). I don't know I still don't get it, the story changes so many times.
The 2nd jacket looks like the same pattern on a todd's standard jacket, but not at all the Martin Grace jacket.

And I still don't get the leather thing.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:16 pm

It certainly looks like a Last Crusade jacket but it doesn't have any snaps on the top or bottom of the storm flap. Also, it's sized at 38/40 but we know Ford wore a size 44 for Last Crusade.

One of my friends thinks he's got the Butterfield & Butterfield auction catalogue in his collection - he's going to check for me tonight. If he has got it, he's going to scan the colour photo from the front cover and the black and white photo from inside for me. I'll be sure to post them here when I get them.

Chris

junior wrote:i thought this particular jacket, from Butterfield, was once talked about years ago.....and it was determined to be a Crusade, not from Raiders and that the people who did the text goofed it up. Am I off on this? One of you Hall of Famers care to express your thoughts?

junior

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:17 pm

No photographic evidence to go on at the moment

To quote Han Solo, "Well, that's the real trick, isn't it?" We're usually a bit light on the photographic evidence. It then boils down to trust and that's hard to come by when the source has to keep quiet about this and that and it all sounds so secretive. In the end either you believe it or you don't. My experienced guess is that the sources really don't care whether any of us do or not. This is why I was so thrilled that the NH jacket is out there front and center with photos and more. We're just not used to that.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:21 pm

Chris,

thank you for the small update. I wonder why there where 2 jackets when one was the hero jacket. But I just can't believe george lucas just loaned the jacket, after hearing the stories under which the prototype for the CS jacket was loaned.

I'd like to hear some answers on this as well.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:31 pm

"and it's going to cost you something extra - 1000, all in advance".

I know what you mean though Jason. I mentioned earlier that it's a real shame this project hasn't been presented in the same way as the NH jacket project.

It would have been nice to see pics of the jacket TN was going to replicate, then see some pics of the replica which exactly matched the real deal. Oh well, my gut tells me that we're never going to get that sort of photographic evidence.

Chris

agent5 wrote: "Well, that's the real trick, isn't it?"

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:36 pm

That about sums it up I think, other than it was stated the jackets were not delivered at the same time.

All sorts of speculation can be made as to why two jackets, but they'd be just that, speculation.

If you were to replicate the Raiders jacket, would you not want to be able to examine more than one if there was more than one 'original' available to examine? That's my 'guess'.

Chris_King wrote:_'s source - "Frank - the delivery boy" told him that he hand delivered the Leather Concessionaires "Hero" jacket AND the Martin Grace jacket personally to TN.
No photographic evidence to go on at the moment - just the conversation that _ had with his source "Frank".

As discussed earlier, it seems that the Leather Concessionaires jacket was THE hero on loan from Lucas and the reason it's got a Leather Concessionaires label in it is because it never went through Bermans and Nathans before being delivered. Apparently, it went straight to Deborah Nadoolman before it was tagged with a B&N label, then Deborah distressed it and gave it to Ford for the first day of filming at La Rochelle.

That's my understanding of the "facts" that we know so far.

Something just occurred to me which would be interesting to hear an answer for. Why would this source deliver 2 jackets to TN? You'd think that if the hero was going to be made available, it pretty much rules out the need for using a stunt jacket.

Dutch_jones wrote:But HOW do we know the Leather concessionaires jacket is the "hero" jacket? What proof is there on that?

The way I see it, that first jacket 001/888 was copied of an earlier wested jacket, pretty similar to Sebas's jacket ( the Leather concessionaires jacket). I don't know I still don't get it, the story changes so many times.
The 2nd jacket looks like the same pattern on a todd's standard jacket, but not at all the Martin Grace jacket.

And I still don't get the leather thing.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:37 pm

Oh well, my gut tells me that we're never going to get that sort of photographic evidence.

JUST your gut?

Post by **Mike** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:40 pm

Chris_King wrote:I don't understand why he told people that the Leather Concessionaires jacket was discounted when in fact it was THE hero jacket and obviously different to the Martin Grace jacket.

I think this can be attributed to me and Tony's broken English. I think _ and I worked it out later in the thread. I first reported that the LC-tagged jacket was off, but we think either Tony misspoke, or I misheard.

My bad.

For your later observations, I think you're more on the money. I think the timeline would be that the Grace jacket came first, then the LC one came in with "Frank."

Mike