TONY NOWAK IS REPLICATING AN ORIGINAL RAIDERS JACKET!!

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:45 am

I've got to ask. Why would George Lucas allow THE Hero jacket to be taken out of the ranch / presidio and loaned to Tony Nowak? Tony hasn't got a licensing agreement to produce the Raiders jacket has he? I'm pretty sure that Lucas wouldn't allow this sort of thing to happen unless he was going to get something out of the deal.

Hmmmm.

Chris

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:52 am

Perhaps he IS getting something out of the deal...

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:02 am

_,

Please can you clear something up for me?
I thought it was 2 jackets that Tony had access to, but what you're saying here implies that it's now 3 (with the 3rd being THE Hero).

Reading through this thread, it seems that the first jacket was a Leather Concessionaires jacket and was apparently discounted because it's not screen used. You hinted that the second jacket was the Martin Grace stunt jacket so before the pics were posted of jacket #001/888, I had assumed that the Martin Grace jacket was the one that Tony copied. Then, somewhere along the lines the Martin Grace jacket seemed to be overwritten by the fact that it was it was noted that actualy THE hero jacket. Either the info about Martin Grace's jacket was not correct or Tony did in fact get a 3rd jacket which according to your source was loaned by George Lucas?

So which one is slydini's #001/888 a copy of? Leather Concessionaires, Martin Grace or THE hero?

If I'm reading these snippets of info correctly, it sounds like he hasn't yet made a replica of THE hero because it wasn't loaned to him until after he'd made the patterns based on jacket 1 or 2.

If he truly did get access to THE hero, I assume that we'll be seeing some much more accurate looking jackets. However, the pessimist in me worries about how we can be sure that the more accurate replicas aren't just the result of the SA requests that people have made after being disappointed with his first offering???

I am REALLY confused.

Chris

_ wrote: Back to Indy I... I know of two jackets he had access to. The first was copied and has received a lot of the SA negative feedback. I don't know what was requested - exact copies or what I would call a faithful reproduction in a way the corrects for basic wear ability. The second jacket I've been told about was not directly corroborated by Tony, but what he said was, "Todd, I cannot yet discuss that.". I have a highly placed source that says he delivered the hero jacket to Tony on loan from George Lucas.

As to what jacket is a copy of what jacket, and was it really a replica or was it "corrected" and/or were SA or other mods requested? Heck if I know... I think we need more "information" and fewer guesses disguised as information. JMO...

LOL! The confusion is understandable. I'm still hoping somebody comes forward to order that exact copy.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:48 am

So, the Leather Concessionaires jacket and Martin Grace jacket are one and the same? Martin Grace's jacket is the one that got past Monty Berman and as such, still had the Leather Concessionaires label in it?

Cheers,

Chris

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:55 am

Ahhhhhhh. I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. I wonder which jacket ReturningSon had thrown onto his lap when he visited Tony? I'm guessing that it was the Martin Grace jacket because if Tony only had the hero for 1 day, chances of ReturningSon being there on that day are pretty remote!

I've only spoken with Tony by email so far and he's very non-commital. To be honest, no amount of talking on the phone will settle my nerves. I just need to see a photo of the hero jacket or some pretty compelling sketches that he made when he reverse engineered the patterns in preparation for his own offering.

Chris

_ wrote: Nope - Two jackets. First was Martin Grace's that was sold at Butterfields. It has a B&N label. Second was the hero. Supposedly, it has a Leather Concessionaires label because it went straight to Deb and then straight to Harrison.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:09 am

If the hero was loaned by Lucas and both jackets came from the same collector, do I assume that this "collector" is in fact Lucas?

Chris

_ wrote: Both jackets came from the same "collector" and the first was the Martin Grace jacket sold at Butterfields.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:10 am

I have a highly placed source that says he delivered the hero jacket to Tony on loan from George Lucas.

George Lucas put a HERO jacket on loan??? - George Walther Lucas???

That is almost as hard to swallow, as if Steven Spielberg gave TN the Delorean from BTTF incl. a working fluxcapicitator, with which he travelled back in time together with Harrison Ford, so he could make the jackets for Raiders

I've got to ask. Why would George Lucas allow THE Hero jacket to be taken out of the ranch / presidio and loaned to Tony Nowak? Tony hasn't got a licensing agreement to produce the Raiders jacket has he? I'm pretty sure that Lucas wouldn't allow this sort of thing to happen unless he was going to get something out of the deal.

Couldn't agree more! Why would he?! I don't even give my personal hat on loan and - except for sentimental reasons - I doubt that it's worth a fraqtion of what the hero jacket is worth. I've to this date never read a story of a piece of gear changing THAT fast and THAT drastically! I get a bloody headache from even TRYING to get all the contradictions match and it's just becomming more and more difficult.

Can't wait to see a spot on replica of jacket number three... wait, that reminds me of a christian story... I think there once was a guy called Andreas (I'm not good at bible stories, so please bare with me) who was a saint and murdered from some soldiers with bows and arrows (to make it VERY short). Now, if you take all the arrow splits and pieces that have been collected by the various churches all over the globe of the centuries, and put them together, the poor guy was killed by 80(!!!) arrows

Regards,

Marc

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:41 am

I also recall a Christian story about a guy named 'Doubting Thomas'.....

;-)

Just for fun, let's say it WAS Lucas who loaned the jacket from his own collection.....we're comparing apples to oranges in your example above.

You have a few sentimental favorites in your collection, and at this stage of the game of your life and business funds are watched closely. Lucas, on the other hand, is WELL beyond that. He's more interested in seeing particular results, as well as making 'statements'. As long as something is under control of him or his associates, any item in his collection is just an item, and monetary value doesn't figure in.

Just something else to mull over since that theory is being kicked around.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:54 am

First was Martin Grace's that was sold at Butterfields. It has a B&N label.

Has anyone a photo of this jacket from the original Butterfields auction catalogue (if any, but I suppose yes)?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:56 am

I bet agent 5 does in his collection of Raiders images. It's been posted several times around here in the past.

Regards! Michaelson

indyrocks · Post by **indyrocks** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:58 am

Michaelson wrote:I also recall a Christian story about a guy named 'Doubting Thomas'..... ;-)

Just for fun, let's say it WAS Lucas who loaned the jacket from his own collection.....we're comparing apples to oranges in your example above.

You have a few sentimental favorites in your collection, and at this stage of the game of your life and business funds are watched closely. Lucas, on the other hand, is WELL beyond that. He's more interested in seeing particular results, as well as making 'statements'. As long as something is under control of him or his associates, any item in his collection is just an item, and monetary value doesn't figure in.

Just something else to mull over since that theory is being kicked around.

Regards! Michaelson

How do we know that TN ISN'T going to make licensed replicas or something like that? If he was going to, and had a deal of sorts with Lucas, we probably woulnd't know about it yet, for obvious reasons of course.

MACHONE · Post by **MACHONE** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:00 am

Hatch's jacket is much closer but still has the alligator hide. All the discussion of the two sourced jackets got me to thinking....did both of the jackets Tony have on loan have this heavily grained hide? I still have not seen anything proving this is accurate. While both Slydini's and Hatch's jackets are very nice, I would be hard pressed to drop a grand for that leather, no matter how accurate the measuments are.

As to the source of the HERO jacket on loan from Lucas...it reminds me of the jacket given to the Smithsonian. Could it not be possible Tony requested the jacket and some random one was just "pulled" from the Lucas archives?
-Ben

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:01 am

from my conversations with Tony, the leather concessionaries (sp?) was the jacket loaned to him for duplication by a producer from china (hong kong?) named mr. sparks. he also wanted to give me his number but i really didn't want to call china at that point in time. this was the jacket that didn't have the correct specs and was discounted from the project (from what i've read, putting 2 and 2 together).

the waters remain muddied.......

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:01 am

From what I've always understood, as long as you had Lucas' personal blessing, you didn't necessarily have to have a 'licence' from his corporation to do anything.

Once again, G, watch what you post. You asked _ about that the other day! Folks will grab it as 'gospel truth' and run with it.

Regards! Michaelson

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:04 am

Hey _, thanks for the information. It will be great if we ultimately get to see pics of the hero jacket and find out if TN is copying that or the other jacket.

Obviously it sounds like people are less interested in copies of the Martin Grace jacket.

(This would make a great short film - instead of borrowing the jacket a bunch of gearheads want to sneak into the ranch and measure it and take pictures of it.)

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:18 am

Contradiction #1: _'s source confirmed that the Leather Concessionaires jacket was THE hero jacket loaned from Lucas.

Contradiction #2: TN states that the Leather Concessionaires jacket came from a Chinese collector called Mr Sparks.

Contradiction #3: TN said that the Leather Concessionaires jacket was discounted because it wasn't screen used.

Contradiction #4: _'s source confirmed that BOTH jackets came from the SAME collector. So, which "collector" is this? George Lucas or Mr Sparks?!!!

My head hurts!

Chris

Indiana G wrote:from my conversations with Tony, the leather concessionaries (sp?) was the jacket loaned to him for duplication by a producer from china (hong kong?) named mr. sparks. he also wanted to give me his number but i really didn't want to call china at that point in time. this was the jacket that didn't have the correct specs and was discounted from the project (from what i've read, putting 2 and 2 together).

the waters remain muddied.......

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:24 am

Just something else to mull over since that theory is being kicked around.

Oh great!!! Why don't you just come on over to hit me in the head with a baseball bat to make my headache even worse

Cheers,

Marc

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:25 am

Chris_King wrote:But the Leather Concessionaires jacket has been "confirmed" as THE hero jacket from Lucas and _'s source also confirmed that the Martin Grace jacket AND Hero jacket came from the same "collector".

Contradictory information certainly seems to keep raising its head and clouding the issues here!

So, did the 2 jackets both come from this Chinese collector or did they both come from Lucas?

My head hurts!

Chris

Indiana G wrote:from my conversations with Tony, the leather concessionaries (sp?) was the jacket loaned to him for duplication by a producer from china (hong kong?) named mr. sparks. he also wanted to give me his number but i really didn't want to call china at that point in time. this was the jacket that didn't have the correct specs and was discounted from the project (from what i've read, putting 2 and 2 together).

the waters remain muddied.......

i hear yah chris....so does mine.

as fas as i know, 2 jackets made it to tony. the sparks jacket was a request from this producer to copy, the second one from top secret sources which was used to make 001/888. the sparks jacket was not used as the design was inconsistent with what TN saw in the movie. this jacket had a LC label on it.

that is how i understand it from what i've read here and my dealings with tony.

i'm gonna go back in the peanut gallery now and let you guys hash this out.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:33 am

Marc wrote:George Lucas put a HERO jacket on loan??? - George Walther Lucas???

Actually his middle name is Walton. Just like Indy's. ;-)

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:34 am

Again, I hope that Tony can verify this. If he can verify that he's had access to the Hero jacket and has the original specs that can be reproduced, I would say that, even for a grand, 888 might not last that long.

Thanks for patiently going over this with us, _.

My question is, if Tony had access to the Hero jacket, why wasn't this 001 (nothing at all against Slydini's jacket)? You would think that, after dealing with us "fanatics" in the past, this would have been his first offering to get us all salivating.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:35 am

as fas as i know, 2 jackets made it to tony. the sparks jacket was a request from this producer to copy, the second one from top secret sources which was used to make 001/888. the sparks jacket was not used as the design was inconsistent with what TN saw in the movie. this jacket had a LC label on it.

(Oh my head!!!)

So he copied number two jacket - which looks like the 001/888, because number one jacket didn't look what he saw on screen. And the second jacket (with the LC label) is now replaced by the jacket given to Tony from George Lucas, while Hatch's jacket is an improved version of the 001/888 jacket - based on the jacket with the LC label inside. Is that correct, or am I misreading this...

_, would you please - for the sake of my head - put all the info regarding the Raiders jackets into one post in which the earliers assumptions and misinterpretations aren't in. Just a single post for me to understand please.

Thanks,

Marc

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:39 am

edited because I had gotten confused on a point and I don't want to muddy the waters any further

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:39 am

Actually his middle name is Walton. Just like Indy's.

This thread is just no good for my health...

Regards,

Marc

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:07 am

I’ve tried to get my head around all this info and have come to realize that there’s 2 contradictory “sequence of events” going on here but ultimately, they both seem to result in TN using the Martin Grace “Butterfield auction” jacket as the basis for his replica because as we’ve seen, jacket #001/888 doesn’t match up with THE Hero. Here’s my take on it:

Sequence of events #1:

• Mr Sparks allows TN to borrow Martin Grace’s “Butterfield auction” jacket so that a copy can be made of it.
• Mr Sparks also allows TN to borrow a “Leather Concessionaires” jacket but when TN examines this jacket, he concludes that it doesn’t match what he sees on screen so he decides not to use it.
• TN produces his jacket based on Martin Grace’s “Butterfield auction” jacket.
• TN jacket #001/888 is shown and we can only assume that this is a copy of the Martin Grace “Butterfield auction” jacket.

Sequence of events #2:

• _’s source (someone very close to Lucas) confirms that he hand delivered BOTH jackets to TN and also confirms that one of those jackets was in fact THE Hero jacket.
• _ confirms that the prototype jacket made by Peter and given to Deborah Nadoolman (who then distresses it and gives it to Ford for the first day of shooting) was in fact the only jacket to be delivered with a Leather Concessionaires label it in because it didn’t go through Monty Berman before it got to Ford.
• TN didn’t know that the Leather Concessionaires jacket was THE Hero because as stated, he didn’t think it matched up to what he could see on screen. Therefore, his replica is based on Martin Grace’s “Butterfield auction” jacket.

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:18 am

Hey Marc,

Your story reminded me of the hanging of Louis Riel in Canada. After his hanging, they sold off foot lengths of the rope that hung him as souvenirs. Over two tons of rope had been sold.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:20 am

Chris_King wrote:TN didn’t know that the Leather Concessionaires jacket was THE Hero because as stated, he didn’t think it matched up to what he could see on screen.

Can it be true that the most SA jacket in the world was dismissed because it didn't seem to match what was on screen? If so, then this is hilarious!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:24 am

You got it. ;-)

Regards! Michaelson

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:33 am

Satipo wrote: Can it be true that the most SA jacket in the world was dismissed because it didn't seem to match what was on screen? If so, then this is hilarious!

That, my friend, is the understatement of the year.

And thanks to Chris King for working on a huge migraine to put up those two scenarios. If, as _ has told us, the Sparks scenario is false, then the second scenario fits in well with what we know and you have one of the most ironic occurences in recent memory (see quote above ;-) ).

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:35 am

Yeah, no kidding. Thank you 'Mr. Sparks'...if that's your real name.

_, what a post...

My eyes were glued to the screen. Can we assume, therefore, that Lucas is friendly with Tony and -given his involvement in CS- simply did him a favor and lended him the jackets?

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:41 am

Satipo wrote:
Chris_King wrote:TN didn’t know that the Leather Concessionaires jacket was THE Hero because as stated, he didn’t think it matched up to what he could see on screen.
Can it be true that the most SA jacket in the world was dismissed because it didn't seem to match what was on screen? If so, then this is hilarious!

Exactly! That first-day-of-filming jacket had inseam strap anchoring on the back panel. If that's one of the jackets that was sent to TN, it should reflect this. If he discarded it because he didn't see the inseam variation on screen, then it would be tragic! I mean, that is the original jacket!!!

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:41 am

According to the information that TN has given to a few people at the beginning of this thread - Yes, it's true.
Quite unbelievable if this truly is the case but this is just one of the questions we need to know the answer to!

Chris

Satipo wrote:
Can it be true that the most SA jacket in the world was dismissed because it didn't seem to match what was on screen? If so, then this is hilarious!

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:42 am

I was told by the "delivery boy" that the second jacket he brought was the hero. I did not get much more than that. Both jackets came from the same "collector" and the first was the Martin Grace jacket sold at Butterfields.

How is it possible that the "collector" is Lucas? How could he "buy" the jacket sold at Butterfields? He's supposed to be the seller.

Also that jacket has nothing to do with 001/888 I compared it already.

One thing is for sure, if G. Lucas is reading this thread I bet he is laughing his ### off.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:45 am

It's not unusual for film studios to have to buy items used in their own films back from private collectors at auction. It's happened a LOT over the years!

However, if the Butterfield auction details state that Lucas was the seller, that's a whole different can of worms!

Chris

PLATON wrote:
I was told by the "delivery boy" that the second jacket he brought was the hero. I did not get much more than that. Both jackets came from the same "collector" and the first was the Martin Grace jacket sold at Butterfields.
How is it possible that the "collector" is Lucas? How could he "buy" the jacket sold at Butterfields? He's supposed to be the seller.

Also that jacket has nothing to do with 001/888 I compared it already.

One thing is for sure, if G. Lucas is reading this thread I bet he is laughing his ### off.

Nebraska Brad · Post by **Nebraska Brad** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:50 am

Wow. Fascinating stuff guys. Thanks to all of you guys for your detective work.

-Nebraska

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:57 am

Chris_King wrote:However, if the Butterfield auction details state that Lucas was the seller, that's a whole different can of worms!

Chris

Just out of curiousity, why is that a different can of worms?

Regards! Michaelson

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:15 pm

Because if Lucas was the seller (and the jacket was sold at the auction), it means that he no longer owned it and subsequently, wouldn't be able to let TN borrow it.

Chris

Michaelson wrote:
Chris_King wrote:However, if the Butterfield auction details state that Lucas was the seller, that's a whole different can of worms!

Chris
Just out of curiousity, why is that a different can of worms?

Regards! Michaelson

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:18 pm

Wow. Some peoples’ heads are exploding about now. Never thought that the hero jacket would ever be copied. It’s a good thing Paterson stuck around or we’d never know. ;-)

junior · Post by **junior** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:22 pm

Is this not the most perplexing thread since COW was launched?

Okay, after a hefty helping of twice baked confusion, do I understand correctly in saying that...
- TN hasn't yet made a replica of the hero jacket loaned by GL?
- the reason he hasn't done so can't yet be disclosed?
- in the next few weeks or so things will be more ironed out so TN can reproduce the GL hero jacket?

junior · Post by **junior** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:58 pm

Good Luck Master P.

Curious to know how TN would respond to those Q's. Just have a feeling that there are things at work here that few, if any, know about.

Geez, what's gonna happen next? it's like being hooked on a weekday soap opera...not that I would know anything about that sort of thing.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:07 pm

I would hope mine and Indy G's are close, received mine on 10/21 and Tony said he haden't been getting much sleep.....so was made after getting Lucas jacket.. has pockets, collar , zipper, straps facing the spine ,5 3/4 in yoke,drapes open like the Raiders when not zipped.with zipper and lining exposed in upper body,....the photos don't do the leather justice,would need Spielberg and his cinematographer and lighting ... even has one piece gusset...Hatch

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:12 pm

legend has it that a hero jacket was taken from an office in a mythical ranch littred by starbucks frappaccino cups and gaurded by the living dead......[cough....lucas' lawyers.....cough].

those that will replicate it and sell it to the knuckle-gearheads will give them everlasting power.

.....kid, its just a story........i almost died of bankruptcy looking for it myself............

Piers · Post by **Piers** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:23 pm

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:57 pm

I just got off the phone with Tony. All I can say is make your decision to buy your jacket BEFORE you talk with the man. Because once you talk to him, you'll want to buy a jacket. Heck, even if you've bought a jacket, you'll want to buy another.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:56 pm

Michaelson wrote:From what I've always understood, as long as you had Lucas' personal blessing, you didn't necessarily have to have a 'licence' from his corporation to do anything.

Once again, G, watch what you post. You asked _ about that the other day! Folks will grab it as 'gospel truth' and run with it.

Regards! Michaelson

Isn't that where the limited number run of 777 came from for the TN Indy IV jacket, along with permission to use Indy IV on it?

I think it was suggested that is where the limited number for the Raiders jacket came from and 'Indy I' as well? Can't find it in all the posts now.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:59 pm

Yes, that's been my understanding.

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:10 pm

Baldwyn wrote:Hey Marc,

Your story reminded me of the hanging of Louis Riel in Canada. After his hanging, they sold off foot lengths of the rope that hung him as souvenirs. Over two tons of rope had been sold.

It all came from the same lot

but really, who went around measuring all these arrow shaft bits and measuring/weighing rope lengths? Someone is making a good story.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:17 pm

Baldwyn wrote:I just got off the phone with Tony. All I can say is make your decision to buy your jacket BEFORE you talk with the man. Because once you talk to him, you'll want to buy a jacket. Heck, even if you've bought a jacket, you'll want to buy another.

so you ordered a jacket?

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:11 pm

RCSignals wrote:
Baldwyn wrote:I just got off the phone with Tony. All I can say is make your decision to buy your jacket BEFORE you talk with the man. Because once you talk to him, you'll want to buy a jacket. Heck, even if you've bought a jacket, you'll want to buy another.
so you ordered a jacket?

I ordered a CS jacket a few weeks ago. I called Tony to say as much as I love looking at the new Raiders jacket, to stop letting these guys jump in front me

Louisiana Jones · Post by **Louisiana Jones** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:56 pm

After reading through only a third of this thread... Louisiana Jones will now kill himself.

It's like I'm back at my 8th grade lunch table.

LJ

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:59 pm

It's like I'm back at my 8th grade lunch table.

You are, complete with spilled milk, classroom bullies and all.