Indiana G wrote:the yoke is quite large. look at the photo where he is sitting and compare that to the tarantula yoke....quite different.
also, compare that yoke to slydini's (accounting for sizing up). i don't think this is the jacket that TN has. the pics of ford, that yoke looks almost to be say 5" +, like the CS jacket.
maybe nadoolman thought...."not enough bum harrison......let's raise that back panel" ....at least that would explain why the back length is shorter than the front........guess that hasn't been discussed yet either? ;-)
Looking forward to seeing your report. If Tony allows, PLEASE try and get a photo of the photo he has showing Ford wearing the jacket that he copied. That's probably going to be the most useful evidence you can get from your trip.
Thanks!
Chris
Guys, this is absurd. The burden of proof should and must be placed on Nowak to either post that pic here or on his website. It's absolutely ridiculous that he claims to have proof and yet doesn't bother coughing up the goods. What he tells us is hearsay. I mean, we're the very people he has to convince! Given the bleedin' price tag on his product, enough is enough. Either prove your claims (á la recently discoverd screen-used Cairo fedora) or get lost...
Last edited by sebas on Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Looking forward to seeing your report. If Tony allows, PLEASE try and get a photo of the photo he has showing Ford wearing the jacket that he copied. That's probably going to be the most useful evidence you can get from your trip.
Thanks!
Chris
Guys, this is absurd. The burden of proof should and must be placed on Nowak to either post that pic here or on his website. It's absolutely ridiculous that he claims to have proof and yet doesn't bother coughing up the goods. What he tells us is heresay. I mean, we're the very people he has to convince! Given the bleedin' price tag on his product, enough is enough. Either prove your claims (á la recently discoverd screen-used Cairo fedora) or get lost...
What claims? I've only heard he claimed he was copying a screen-used jacket and that he had a picture of Ford in it, nothing more than that. All claims regarding Hero jackets were made by members here, not Nowak himself AFAIK . For all I know it could simply be the Martin Grace jacket he copied.
Why don't we just all wait untill Tony himself gives us the information in stead of going by hearsay and hypothesys?
Looking forward to seeing your report. If Tony allows, PLEASE try and get a photo of the photo he has showing Ford wearing the jacket that he copied. That's probably going to be the most useful evidence you can get from your trip.
Thanks!
Chris
Guys, this is absurd. The burden of proof should and must be placed on Nowak to either post that pic here or on his website. It's absolutely ridiculous that he claims to have proof and yet doesn't bother coughing up the goods. What he tells us is heresay. I mean, we're the very people he has to convince! Given the bleedin' price tag on his product, enough is enough. Either prove your claims (á la recently discoverd screen-used Cairo fedora) or get lost...
whats the point of the picture at this stage in the game? say he posts a pic of ford wearing this exact jacket when he's in the well of souls and the scene lasts for under 10 seconds.......are you going to download that scene on your i-touch to show exactly where that jacket came from? will that actually effect your decision to buy this offering? i'm just curious. we can all agree that this jacket does not match up to what we know of what was on ford's back. i don't think we can debate that any further so we all want to know where it actually does come from....granted. but why the hostility? does it come down to the price of things again? things get really ugly when we discuss means to an end around here.....but trust me, the price for a custom spec leather jacket was a steal for a CS and is about right for indy 1. ask mags, ask rick5150, ask the man, ask the mechanic. peter has been too good to us over the years.
Yes, it's quite clear to me that Tony really has no knowledge or "expertise" when it comes to authenticating a Raiders jacket. This is to be expected really because he didn't have anything to do with the production of Raiders and is therefore relying 100% on the facts being given to him by people "in the know".
I have no problems with Tony whatsoever and applaud the work he did for the crystal skull jacket.
My problem is the very vague and contradictory "confirmations" about what he's got and what he used. Tony seems to be a very trusting guy and as such, I'm sure he's taken whatever he was told as being 100% true. We are here to find out if those claims are indeed true and if they are not, we're trying to find out whether the jacket actually was worn by Ford in any scenes.
Chris
Last edited by Chris_King on Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
OF COURSE it matters if he can show a photo of Ford wearing the jacket. The whole point about many of our concerns is the fact that we CAN'T FIND any photos of Ford wearing the jacket that Tony based his #001/888 jacket on and to date, that implies that the jacket he used was NOT a hero jacket after all (or at least, not the hero jacket that appears in the majority of the scenes in Raiders).
For me, if he shares a photo showing the jacket being worn by Ford, that is a MASSIVE confidence boost about the information that has been "hinted" and "confirmed" in this thread so far.
Chris
Indiana G wrote:
whats the point of the picture at this stage in the game? say he posts a pic of ford wearing this exact jacket when he's in the well of souls and the scene lasts for under 10 seconds.......are you going to download that scene on your i-touch to show exactly where that jacket came from? will that actually effect your decision to buy this offering? i'm just curious. we can all agree that this jacket does not match up to what we know of what was on ford's back. i don't think we can debate that any further so we all want to know where it actually does come from....granted. but why the hostility? does it come down to the price of things again? things get really ugly when we discuss means to an end around here.....but trust me, the price for a custom spec leather jacket was a steal for a CS and is about right for indy 1. ask mags, ask rick5150, ask the man, ask the mechanic. peter has been too good to us over the years.
I didn't mean to make it seem that I was pointing fingers at anybody. I just wanted to make a few points. However, Indiana G did bring up the point that part of what is included in the price of a TN Raiders is customization. That’s very important.
The other point that I’ll make is that everyone sees different details. Two guys can look at the same pictures and see two different things. The TN is probably a lot closer to what was onscreen than most of us are giving it credit for (especially considering how differently nuanced the screen used jackets were). Since the stunt jackets were apparently used for Harrison Ford stunts, they are in essence also “hero” jackets. But as I already pointed out above, the real "hero" jacket aint ever coming home.
Now what we have is essentially the same thing that we have with the hats. You might as well say, “I want the jacket from this scene”. If TN can deal with that, more power to him. I think I'd shoot myself (or you guys ).
Raiders jacket with the low yolk.exactly like the TN jacket.
so what I think is that Ford used this in the first shot.He has worn the jacket andthis to became a Hero jacket.Later on the pattern had to change for the jacket and Martin Grace used it for stunt work in the rest of the film.doesnt that make any sence?
It is a possibility.
Yes you can see the bottom line of the yoke, even though it's a bit blurred.
well.I am almost a 100% sure that this is an yolk.you allways see all the other high yolks on the jackets in the movie,why is it so hard to believe that this is an low yolk? this is the first scene in raiders and the production picture a few threads back shows a jacket with a low yolk that looks exactly like this one here.. if you deny something like this then your just hardheaded IMO
Kt Templar wrote:One of the points that everyone seems to be skating around.
If the jacket that Nowak copied is screen used, then the older jackets we had from Peter really were not as far off as we believed.
It's a win for him (ironically) and for Nowak, but a bit of a kick in the teeth for the SA guys.
Yes someone pointed that out earlier in teh thread with a picture of an early Wested (might have been you, there's too much now to go back and find). You would think those early jackets from the original maker would be accurate. Perhaps they were more that they've been given credit for being.
It still doesn't explain the variations observed from screen shots though. Maybe it's those that are wrong.
Kt Templar wrote:One of the points that everyone seems to be skating around.
If the jacket that Nowak copied is screen used, then the older jackets we had from Peter really were not as far off as we believed.
It's a win for him (ironically) and for Nowak, but a bit of a kick in the teeth for the SA guys.
Kt, I did point this out here previously and another strap-related thread.
I'm sorry kind sir. It is a point worth making though don't you think?
Absolutey. It certainly opens up a whole new perspective on the SA and hero jacket discussion. This is what I had to say, incidently:
"My theory is, given that this (Bantu Wind pic) was the very first day of shooting, this version of the jacket must have been the "original pattern" designed by Peter/Nadoolman et al. As filming progressed, alterations and adjustments were made and the have become the SA specs with which we're all familiar today. That's why in Peter's original affirmation of having kept the "original patters" he essentially meant these specs. For this reason, since the late 90s, the Wested jacket has had to undergo several adjustments. The evolution of the commercially available Wested jacket has mirrored the mutations it underwent during filming."
sorry, i measured the yoke wrong.....i was measuring at the sleeve, it should be measured at the center of the jacket. the CS yoke is a tad over 7". the raiders yoke that TN has copied is (iirc) 5 3/4" as i just got off the phone with tony. i think holt's HH yoke is closer from the pics that he's posted but i guess i'll see how it plays out.
as far as a picture is concerned, i think we can forget about all that talk. tony was talking about a picture from a book which i am assuming is a published picture of ford in the hero jacket that WE know.
he even said himself that he does not look at those things at my (our) level of detail so he can just base his claims on what his sources told him. he is not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes but just going with what the big wigs stated to him that own this jacket (which he had for 1 day and returned)......you know......probably the same big wigs that wrote the script for indy 4....[low blow ].
from what he relayed to me, he can make whatever you want for a jacket down to the size of stitch that you want which is an invaluable quality for a vendor imo. rundquist is right....the real hero jacket will probably never surface.......i'm hoping that it will.....but it probably won't. also rundquist, you're right on another thing.......i'm surprised he hasn't shot ME by now............
Kt Templar wrote:One of the points that everyone seems to be skating around.
If the jacket that Nowak copied is screen used, then the older jackets we had from Peter really were not as far off as we believed.
It's a win for him (ironically) and for Nowak, but a bit of a kick in the teeth for the SA guys.
Kt, I did point this out here previously and another strap-related thread.
I'm sorry kind sir. It is a point worth making though don't you think?
Well, there is screen accurate and there is screen accurate. I'm not wanting to start a fight here, but some of Wested's oldest offerings didn’t even get the look right, nit picky details aside. It took a very long time for them to progress from the “bell hop” jacket for instance, to what they offer today. Cheers
Kt Templar wrote:One of the points that everyone seems to be skating around.
If the jacket that Nowak copied is screen used, then the older jackets we had from Peter really were not as far off as we believed.
It's a win for him (ironically) and for Nowak, but a bit of a kick in the teeth for the SA guys.
Kt, I did point this out here previously and another strap-related thread.
I'm sorry kind sir. It is a point worth making though don't you think?
Well, there is screen accurate and there is screen accurate. I'm not wanting to start a fight here, but some of Wested's oldest offerings didn’t even get the look right, nit picky details aside. It took a very long time for them to progress from the “bell hop” jacket for instance, to what they offer today. Cheers
thought you didn't want anyone using 'SA' ;-)
with all the jackets used in production on ford, on armstrong, on randall, on grace.....i think it's hard to make one SA hero jacket....so i'm just happy with getting a jacket made with the specs i like. kind of like a G-SA....sounds like a motorcycle.
and holt, the bantu wind jacket indeed has a low yoke, but the jacket that was copied has a higher yoke......not as high as your HH jacket but high nonetheless compared to the other movies. if you ever think of getting rid of that one....just ship it over to me ;-)
Indiana Holt wrote:I would sell it G,but the jacket is lost by the postalservisewhen I tried to send it back.I am hoping Peter will make me a new one.........
that jacket was awesome. i'm so sorry to hear that holt. there seams to be alot of jackets going missing.....maybe we should be keeping an eye out for couriers walking around in westeds that don't know the difference between d-rings and sliders......then make a blood sacrifice to kali...
I'm really of the mind that the Hero jacket we all love will probably never surface either. And, like has been pointed out, there were several jackets so one you may like may not be the one in the scene I like.
I know this is probably stating the obvious but bares repeating. As a newcomer to the hobby (and I'm not saying I'm a veteran by any means), I thought there was ONE jacket. You got that ONE and you were set. But I don't believe that's the case. You pick the scene where you like the jacket the best (or combine the elements you like best from different jackets) and get that one made from the vendor you choose. That's the one jacket for you and the closest any of us is going to get.
Just arrived,Tony listens to input ,from memberss I discussed as well as Indy G and others...he wants to give us what we see as authentic Raiders...he nailed the collar,yoke and arm seam positions,drapes open when unzipped to see zipper and lining in upper front,.....the photos still don't do the leather justice ..it's got an antique patina and grain as best as I can describe it,cinch straps point toward the spine........much lighter than Indy IV and similar to my 10 year old Wested lamb but with more "body" and doesn't feel "fragile" but drapes well and feels like it will shape to your body well...already getting wrinkles in elbow bend just with sitting around in it last night and walking the dog this AM
Last edited by Hatch on Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Have digital cameras across the globe all of the sudden started taking nothing but blurry pictures? Just about every pic I've looked at the past several days of any piece of gear is blurry.
agent5 wrote:Have digital cameras across the globe all of the sudden started taking nothing but blurry pictures? Just about every pic I've looked at the past several days of any piece of gear is blurry.
No, it's just that people have trouble finding the macro settings.
I've got a thick skin and good sense of humor so no problem,,,,was working with early AM light conditions and breeze outside but I'll take advise about macro settings next time .....didn't think about it...My first pic posting so please be gentle......Hatch
Oh, I believe you, don't misunderstand. I'm just waiting for the definitive Tony Nowak explaination and description with photos rather than 'someone heard from someone who talked too Tony'......
Baldwyn wrote:I just talked to Tony on the phone, and we discussed some of the reaction, etc. He says he can make whatever someone wants. But he's very very enthusiastic about the hide, and seems to think it matches the actual jacket he handled well.
....at least that would explain why the back length is shorter than the front........guess that hasn't been discussed yet either? ;-) 
. For all I know it could simply be the Martin Grace jacket he copied.
).
WOW! Talk about vintage! 
