Should the gear have changed?

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Switch625
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Should the gear have changed?

Post by Switch625 »

I don't know if this has already been brought up for discussion; if it has, please feel free to delete this thread.

Should Indy's gear have changed for Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull? Sure, it's things like the hat that help identify Indiana Jones, but in the 19 years between movie adventures, shouldn't some things have changed? I find it hard to believe that in that amount of time, Indy didn't find something that worked better than what he'd been using. Like for instance, he's at Sears & Roebuck and he's thinking "maybe some blue jeans would help keep my legs from getting cut up so much." Or maybe "hmmm, maybe these boots will make things easier on my knees." Or what if Wested just flat out discontinued that particular shirt of his? He seems to go through them really easily, what if he couldn't order any more?

Don't get me wrong, Indy's look is iconic. I wouldn't be on this board if it wasn't. I just can't help but wonder why Indy's look didn't change much between Last Crusade and Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull. I guess maybe he's really, really stubborn and really, really set in his ways. :whip:
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Post by david villa »

In my experience, jeans are MISERABLE when wet, and HOTTER THAN HADES in the desert.

But that's just me....

The shirt seems kind of like a staple safari shirt. You know, the kind of thing you could order right now from L.L.Bean or Cabela's or 20 years ago.

The thing that got to me during Last Crusade AND Crystal Skull was once he was in full regalia, he never changed really....

At least in Raiders, he left his jacket behind when he went to market, he left his hat, jacket, bag and whip on the ship, he had to get a new hat once he got to D.C... made the whole adventure more realistic.

In Temple, he "loses" his stuff for a while, but doesn't get it back until the end of the adventure.

But, in the end, once you find something that works, why would you change it? I'm still using the same gig bag for my saxophone that I got in college - because it's familiar and works great. I've still got boots from when I was in high school because they've lasted and work well. Two of my jackets I've had for 10 years because they were well made and have lasted....

My guess is that Indy wouldn't change what ain't broke....

dv
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Post by whipwarrior »

The only thing that has changed in CS (and really not even that dissimilar) is the bullwhip that Indy carries. Same basic shape, but a different whip. But it's all good.
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Post by Raider S »

Yes, I would have liked to have seen something a bit different. Why not, how could it hurt?
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Post by Jr. Jones »

I guess maybe he's really, really stubborn and really, really set in his ways.
Yes... Yes he is. And thank god for it. I understand what your saying but Indy himself hasn't really changed in day to day life or additude. Why would anything else?
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Post by whipitgood »

Sure his gear changed. He got an AB :)

They should have got him a nice new gun as well.
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Post by knibs7 »

Personally, I don't like change that much. When I find something I like, I stick with it. Obviously Indy is the same way.

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Post by MACHONE »

I think if the gear had been changed it would have made it way too different. It was already hard to identify the film with the rest of the series. Changing the gear, while practical in thought, in execution would have been a disaster. The minor tweaks were enough.
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Post by Mulceber »

Agreed. Also, there's a good explanation for it too - when people start to get older, they tend to become more set in their ways, including about clothing - why do you think Michaelson (not to mention George Lucas) has been wearing plaid shirts for 20 years? When people get past their 30's it seems like they settle into what they're going to wear for the rest of their life, and while they might change some things, generally they go with the same theme and maintain some consistency. Therefore, I think it's wholly appropriate that Indy is wearing pretty much the same gear at 55 as he was at 35. -M
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Post by Switch625 »

Mulceber wrote:When people get past their 30's it seems like they settle into what they're going to wear for the rest of their life, and while they might change some things, generally they go with the same theme and maintain some consistency.
You may be right. That would explain the "old guy with shorts, black socks and sandals" trend. :lol:
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Post by Castor Dioscuri »

MACHONE wrote:I think if the gear had been changed it would have made it way too different. It was already hard to identify the film with the rest of the series. Changing the gear, while practical in thought, in execution would have been a disaster. The minor tweaks were enough.
-Ben
I agree completely.

Die Hard 4, anyone? If it wasn't for the other characters constantly calling Bruce Willis 'John McClane', it could have been a completely unrelated action film...
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Post by BendingOak »

I agree with you on the Die hard 4.

Look at the name of Indiana. I guy who names himself after the dog isn't going to change his over all look no matter the style.
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Post by Mitch LaRue »

If the MAN's still using a dog name, clearly he thinks of himself as an "old dog"...
As a (somewhat) old dog, I agree:

Not interested in learning any new tricks, thank you very much...

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Post by BroadSword »

It's a franchise that people expect to see the same stuff. He's known for his look. Would his gear have changed over the course of 20 some odd years...I'm sure it would have. Then it wouldn't be Indy.
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Post by Indiana Joosse »

whipitgood wrote:Sure his gear changed. He got an AB :)

They should have got him a nice new gun as well.
Why?

After all the British army didn't fade them out till around 1963. And guns are expensive.

But he did change though. He has a backpack now...

:-k
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Post by 191145 »

In fact, there's not a lot about the Indiana Jones movies that stands up to any analysis, but it's an action series strictly for entertainment, not a documentary. There are so many anomalies in these movies, like no holes in the leather jacket or other clothing after being dragged down a rocky road behind a Mercedes truck for about a half mile. The fact that he doesn't change equipment is necessary for the series. He has an image established in the first movie and he has to stick with it for the sake of continuity. The IJ movies were essentially comic books on film, and that's why they were all sucessful. You don't mess with a formula that works as well as that one!
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Post by whipitgood »

Indiana Joosse wrote:
whipitgood wrote:Sure his gear changed. He got an AB :)

They should have got him a nice new gun as well.
Why?

After all the British army didn't fade them out till around 1963. And guns are expensive.

But he did change though. He has a backpack now...

:-k
The reason I say give him a new gun, is that he obviously had more than one in the course of the series. That seems to be the only thing I could tolerate changing. Also if I were him I would purchase a more recent firearm that had refinements over my previous guns. It could even be the same model of gun, but maybe slightly better or different in design.
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Post by Switch625 »

BroadSword wrote:It's a franchise that people expect to see the same stuff. He's known for his look. Would his gear have changed over the course of 20 some odd years...I'm sure it would have. Then it wouldn't be Indy.
So Indiana Jones running around a cemetary in a pair of black pants or a t-shirt wouldn't be Indiana Jones? The character's the same, the clothes shouldn't affect that.
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Post by jacksdad »

I agree with the statement you get older you stay in the same stuff. I've been wearing leather jackets all my life,pretty much same style. Wearing jeans and golf shirts and lately cargo pants.My dad has looked the same since as long as I can remember same with my father in law. I think once a guy finds a fit and look that work,we are creatures of habbit. No offenece to the girls on the site but I think changing looks is more of a female thing in my experience. I work with women and they change their looks or hair color all the time. My wife changes her style every few years and colors her hair,from time to time.
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Post by SonofJoker »

Switch625 wrote:
BroadSword wrote:It's a franchise that people expect to see the same stuff. He's known for his look. Would his gear have changed over the course of 20 some odd years...I'm sure it would have. Then it wouldn't be Indy.
So Indiana Jones running around a cemetary in a pair of black pants or a t-shirt wouldn't be Indiana Jones? The character's the same, the clothes shouldn't affect that.
But the clothes are apart of the character. It's what makes him unique. I mean you wouldn't want to see say....Batman running around the city in a pair of black pants and a t-shirt.

And I agree, with age we become set in our ways with what we find comfortable. If I have a leather jacket that I've had for years, sure it's not as warm as other jackets, but it's worked so far, so why change it.
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Post by Carolina Tom »

:whip: Amen bro-I have ties that are 25 years old that I still wear and they still look stylish. Heck, why not-they are Armani and I paid $65 for them when I bought them way back when. Same for my Willis and Geiger flight jacket. A revolver is still a formidible weapon. A 1917 with moon clips is very easy to reload-6 shots. The .45 mag only holds 7. And an old guy like me who's a good shot . . .Well you get the picture-we are set in our ways. Fashion comes and goes but style remains the same! Regards-Tom
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Post by PyramidBlaster »

I believe the term is, "Fashion is fleeting, but Style is forever."

The man is an Icon. Who'd mess with that? :notworthy:
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Post by NatiJones »

Jeans in heat .... Yikes !!! It would make Indy sweat a few calories off! I don't think he needs to change it because its his signature look ... I bet some of yall have that lucky hat you always wear or your run down shoes you can't seem to get rid off... I think his outfit fits a man who gets himself in random adventures !!


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Post by Raider S »

What would be wrong with mixing things up a bit? I mean the last movie gave us Indy's son, a wedding, and a flying saucer; why should we mind if Indy tries on a different pair of pants? It would give everyone something new to buy!

I think for the first scenes in the warehouse some different garb would have been great, then by the time Indy heads to Peru we see him back in the old standards. If you saw Doom in the theaters way back when, the most audience cheering came when Indy came out of the back of the Lao Che cargo plane in his adventuring clothes. Could have had the same opportunity in Skull.
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Post by Restless Dreamer »

Raider S wrote: I think for the first scenes in the warehouse some different garb would have been great, then by the time Indy heads to Peru we see him back in the old standards. If you saw Doom in the theaters way back when, the most audience cheering came when Indy came out of the back of the Lao Che cargo plane in his adventuring clothes. Could have had the same opportunity in Skull.
the point is: in ToD we see Indy while being in the 'civil' world. in CS, Indy was caught by russians "goingdiggin'', and that's why we foind him from the beginning in his usual adventure clothes
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Post by Raider S »

OK, so change the story to they caught Indy at a drive-in movie, or whatever; it's fiction! Indy wasn't really captured by the Russians! :lol:

I just think it would have been cool to see a different set of clothes. People love the white tux, so why not Indy in bib overalls or something?
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Post by WeeMadHamish »

The gear is his superhero costume. Without it, he's not Indiana Jones, he's just Professor Henry Jones, Jr. :P
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Post by Tennessee Smith »

WeeMadHamish wrote:The gear is his superhero costume. Without it, he's not Indiana Jones, he's just Professor Henry Jones, Jr. :P
Agreed, Indy in jeans would be like Superman in shorts. Sure its the same guy, but somethings wrong with the picture. :roll:
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Post by Cammer »

whipitgood wrote: The reason I say give him a new gun, is that he obviously had more than one in the course of the series. That seems to be the only thing I could tolerate changing. Also if I were him I would purchase a more recent firearm that had refinements over my previous guns. It could even be the same model of gun, but maybe slightly better or different in design.
Except for the new models with the plastic frames, and the higher capacity magazines, handguns really haven't changed much since the 30s. Some of the detail styling has changed, and the fashion trend has been away from revolvers and towards pistols. Stainless steel and polymers have really been big over the last ten years, but in the 50s there weren't very many good pistols and the selection was just about the same as it would have been in the 30s.

Two of the best pistols of the mid-1900s were both Browning designs; the High Power and the 1911. Both of which were around when ROTLA was set. Others, like the Luger pistol and the Mauser, are decent designs but really wouldn't have fit well with the Indy character because of their association with Nazi Germany. Besides, he already used a modified Mauser in another great movie he was in. Anyone know it?

Revolvers really haven't evolved much at all since the 30s. There have been virtually no changes made to the current designs when compared with designs from the 30s and 40s. The Webley top break design was weak and antiquated even when Indy was carrying it and is considered to be obsolete as a tool, although it is a collectable curiousity by today's standards. The British military was extremely late in making that gun obsolete, in my opinion. The British have never placed a high priority on staying current with military technology. They used the Lee-Enfield bolt action until 1957. Almost 20 years after the USA had switched over to the semiauto Garand. Although I have to say that the British replacement for the Lee-Enfield, the L1A1, is truly a great design. It's interesting to note that it was based on the FN FAL, also a design by John Browning.

The point to all of this is that, even if Indiana did want to switch to another type of handgun, he really didn't have a lot of choices available at that time in history. There really would not have been a practical reason for Indy to use a different gun. It would have taken additional practice and training for him to become comfortable with it, and there would not have been any advantage.

For example, look at the 1911 style of handgun, except for some styling and materials changes in recent years, it has survived basically unchanged for about a hundred years now. If you had a current factory production 1911 from one of the better known makers, such as Colt or Springfield, most all of the parts would swap out with a military issue gun from WW2. The High Power is similar.
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Post by whipitgood »

Cammer wrote:
The point to all of this is that, even if Indiana did want to switch to another type of handgun, he really didn't have a lot of choices available at that time in history. There really would not have been a practical reason for Indy to use a different gun. It would have taken additional practice and training for him to become comfortable with it, and there would not have been any advantage.

.
I'll give you the limited choices of handguns, but the fact remains he had different guns throughout the series. Obviously the character isn't the most practical, the shoes & whip being two examples, but then he wouldn't be Indy. As far as additional practice, he must have practiced with all those different guns, so I don't buy into that argument. I still stand by the gun being the one thing that could change without upsetting too many fans. Was it necessary? No. Should it have changed? Why not? The character has had many adventures and has lost many guns along the way. Maybe he discovered a gun he was more comfortable with or received as a gift during one of his travels. It would just be one more piece of gear to separate itself from the previous films and a fun new item to collect.
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Post by david villa »

I think some of you are just looking for a new "goodie" to collect :lol:


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Post by MACHONE »

Actually I forgot about the scene just after his decontamination while talking with the Feds. Indy was weearing jeans and a white t-shirt. I did mention to a friend that I thought it took me out of the moment and seemed oddly placed to me. It was just out of character. I completely agree about the superhero costume aspect. The picture probably would have been unwatchable to me without the trusty old gear.
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Post by Cammer »

whipitgood wrote:Obviously the character isn't the most practical, the shoes & whip being two examples, but then he wouldn't be Indy. .
Can't argue there! Dress hat and leather jacket in a jungle? But he pulled it off and set off a fashion trend that has lasted... wow, has it already been nearly 3 decades??
whipitgood wrote: As far as additional practice, he must have practiced with all those different guns, so I don't buy into that argument. I still stand by the gun being the one thing that could change without upsetting too many fans. Was it necessary? No. Should it have changed? Why not? The character has had many adventures and has lost many guns along the way. Maybe he discovered a gun he was more comfortable with or received as a gift during one of his travels. It would just be one more piece of gear to separate itself from the previous films and a fun new item to collect.


I completely agree. The awareness to most moviegoers of a handgun could be described as being very generic. If they were to be asked what kind of gun, they may have described it in nonspecific terms such as "shiny," "black," etc. They would not be able to realize the subtle differences even between the three models that he did use. If there were to be one prop that could be changed without upsetting fans, the gun would be it. And the fact remains that it was changed three times, and no one is upset, or crying "that's not like the real Indy to use a Webley!"
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