TONY NOWAK IS REPLICATING AN ORIGINAL RAIDERS JACKET!!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:00 am

It's that time again when everybody is in two or more camps based on pictures of one jacket without all the necesarry information from the vendor to actualy do so......

Everyone is just basing their opinions on what it available which I think is completely appropriate. We all have an opinion on what we see and so far we haven't seen much. That's not a bad thing. If all the info was handed out from day one instead of this secretive kind of stuff then I think the opinions would be much different. The low rumblings automatically cast doubt with some and I cast no blame for that. It is what it is.
I'm hoping that Tony will pop in here soon and clear all of this up. I think after that happens then some of the opinions given so far will change in time.

I find it very troubling that icons like agent 5 and chris king who have done their big share of research on the raiders jacket are not jumping up and down about this.

Wow! Icon.

Now I feel cool. Thanks for the compliment. In all seriousness though, I feel far from any icon. I'm just another gearhead like any other gearhead here. Right now I'm just waitng for more info to come out like everyone else.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:10 am

Edited due to second thoughts.
I'll just wait and see if any re-assuring evidence comes to light.

Chris

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:12 am

Chris_King wrote:Edited due to second thoughts.
I'll just wait and see if any re-assuring evidence comes to light.

Chris

Thank you. It would be nice if others would do the same.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:19 am

ANZAC_1915 wrote:PS I am pretty sick of suggestions that some of our friendly group here are shills for Wested/Peter. He has a great product at a great price, and it and other jackets (USW, Todd's....etc.) are always going to be comparison points for a new entry in the marketplace, so get over it. We all want each vendor to make a better product.

Thanks, Anzac....My point exactly. Get over it, and let's see what comes from this. We need more data before the final bell, and folks have been ringing it WAY to fast.

Regards! Michaelson

Kaplan · Post by **Kaplan** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:23 am

Does anyone have any knowledge of or any screencaps of a raiders jacket where the yoke seam is exactly lined up with the arm seam? I'm sure this isn't a detail that TN would fudge, but I just don't remember any Raiders jackets that were perfectly lined up.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:29 am

Kaplan wrote:Does anyone have any knowledge of or any screencaps of a raiders jacket where the yoke seam is exactly lined up with the arm seam? I'm sure this isn't a detail that TN would fudge, but I just don't remember any Raiders jackets that were perfectly lined up.

This may be a functional improvement rather than an original detail.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:57 pm

Kt Templar wrote:
IndyFalco wrote:More "Alligator-ish" screenshots

IIRC, those striations are caused when the skin is mechanically pulled off the animal's carcass too quickly or with too much force. It's normally not present in more carefully removed skins or more expensive leather. Leather makers will probably reject skins that show this.

ie. you'd really have to dig to find leather that has that effect especially as it's not normally what is looked for.

KT makes good points. Although this shot is the one I think of with regards to the opposing view of what the hide is/should be, this jacket is not what I think of when I think of the Raiders “hero” jacket. This is one of those scenes where Ford wore a stunt jacket to protect the “hero” jacket. Those ripples are only present in “stunt” shots. Also I want to make clear that I really don’t care either way. I’m not a stitch nazi. This discussion is entirely academic for me. I’m more interested in a look rather than whether every seam lines up the same way it does on the hero jacket. I understand that not everybody feels the same way. It will be impossible for Tony or anybody else to please everybody. Cheers

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:18 pm

indyrocks wroteSo the bottom line here is this:

Tony will of course make the jacket however anyone wants it to be. It is a CUSTOM made jacket after all. And I agree with _ that he'll put the stupid pockets wherever you ask for them to be. Same thing with the yoke/sleeve deal. Just because this first jacket isn't exactly what we all want/expect doesn't mean Tony won't do what's requested on the next few.

PLANTON replied:

That's not the point, the point is if he truly has the hero jacket as he claims or not. By making a copy that is not the same as the hero jacket how does he expect us to believe he has the actual hero jacket? By saying "I corrected the mistakes"?

Hang on here, folks: here's an example of a Raiders hero jacket (courtesy of Kt Templar in another thread) with the yoke and sleeve seams lining up... (have a close gander) and the side straps with inseam sewing to boot. All goes to show that there were many varients of the "hero" jacket floating around. This particualar jacket is from the first day of shooting. Perhaps Tony landed this jacket....

Kt Templar wrote:

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:21 pm

It was the only one in Deb's possession when she went to the first day of the shoot, yes.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:32 pm

you have better eyes than i if you can see those seams.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:33 pm

The only thing I can say is that this jacket

is this jacket

(notice the collar)

and we see it in publicity photos and not in the film, as far as I am aware.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:42 pm

sebas wrote:
indyrocks wroteSo the bottom line here is this:

Tony will of course make the jacket however anyone wants it to be. It is a CUSTOM made jacket after all. And I agree with _ that he'll put the stupid pockets wherever you ask for them to be. Same thing with the yoke/sleeve deal. Just because this first jacket isn't exactly what we all want/expect doesn't mean Tony won't do what's requested on the next few.

PLANTON replied:

That's not the point, the point is if he truly has the hero jacket as he claims or not. By making a copy that is not the same as the hero jacket how does he expect us to believe he has the actual hero jacket? By saying "I corrected the mistakes"?
Hang on here, folks: here's an example of a Raiders hero jacket (courtesy of Kt Templar in another thread) with the yoke and sleeve seams lining up... (have a close gander) and the side straps with inseam sewing to boot. All goes to show that there were many varients of the "hero" jacket floating around. This particualar jacket is from the first day of shooting. Perhaps Tony landed this jacket....

Kt Templar wrote:

My G&B Expedition prototype also has yoke and sleeve seams lining up (per the Terry Leonard jacket). G&B made 2 changes originally to the Terry Leonard jacket design (to be more like the supposed “hero” jacket), before they said “enough”. The changes involved seam placement (the yoke/arm seams as mentioned above, and which side the yoke/shoulder seam overlapped on). The pocket thing was a separate issue. All changes were made years ago and the jacket hasn’t changed since. In fact I think that the seam changes were made before the Expo even really went into production. The point is that the seams on the original prototypes were not wrong. There is no right and wrong, only a bunch of guys chasing their tails.

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:46 pm

Indiana G wrote:you have better eyes than i if you can see those seams.

I hope this helps:

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:48 pm

G&B made 2 changes originally to the Terry Leonard jacket design

Wouldn't the TL jacket have had the different side vents as the TOD jackets had as well as the closed pleats, different pocket size/placement and larger yoke? If so, that's more than 2 changes. Am I missing something or mis-informed?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:50 pm

PLATON wrote:

In all the years I've seen this photo, it has always been credited as being one of Ford waiting on set to shoot the Bantu Wind scene. You can see the ship in the background. This was also during the first days of shooting, and therefore DID appear in the film.

Regards! Michaelson

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:54 pm

PLATON wrote:The only thing I can say is that this jacket

is this jacket

(notice the collar)

and we see it in publicity photos and not in the film, as far as I am aware.

Hummm. I'm not so sure. In the pic below (fromt he same photo shoot) the yoke and sleeve seam don't meet and the straps appear to be higher up and with exterior stitching on the back panel...

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:19 pm

I have been thinking about that hide.

I bought a Merona jacket about 6 years ago and it looked exactly like the TN Indy. It was very, very "pebbled" and looked like lizard skin. The guy at the store said it would tone itself down over time. Here is the jacket now after 6 years of regular wear. Just trying to convince myself to buy this #### thing!

I am sure after some years, it will look and most likely feel like a true Indy jacket.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:25 pm

And here's what is happening these days to my Wested novapelle. "Indiana Jones and the Curse of the Dinosaur Hide"!

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:27 pm

Wow, that looks exactly like my jacket!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:31 pm

It's THE CURSE!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:39 pm

Well strones that is pebbled but its not TN raiders pebbled.

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:40 pm

yeah, you got a point there!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:40 pm

Yes, I was joking a little.. ;-)

slydini · Post by **slydini** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:46 pm

[quote="PLATON"]you are saying that poor old slydini wanted one made correctly? Did he ask for any corrections? or for an excat copy?/quote]

I could care less what your views on the jacket are. I suggest you stick to your reviews of the jacket alone. How dare you presume to know what my thinking was or is. "poor old slydini" indeed! I stated when I posted on this jacket, that I love it, and may be the last Indy jacket I'll ever buy. Do not dare to begin to think you know me!

indyrocks · Post by **indyrocks** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:38 pm

slydini wrote:
PLATON wrote:you are saying that poor old slydini wanted one made correctly? Did he ask for any corrections? or for an excat copy?/quote]

I could care less what your views on the jacket are. I suggest you stick to your reviews of the jacket alone. How dare you presume to know what my thinking was or is. "poor old slydini" indeed! I stated when I posted on this jacket, that I love it, and may be the last Indy jacket I'll ever buy. Do not dare to begin to think you know me!

Slydini, I don't think Platon's intent was to offend or presume anything. Notice in his post which you quoted he asked if you requested any corrections. I have been reading this thread quite closely and I think you've been very generous in your offering of information and answers to a barrage of questions. With that said, these things come with the territory.

Forgive me but just trying to keep the wheels on this one!

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:14 pm

Slydini wrote

I suggest you stick to your reviews of the jacket alone. How dare you presume to know what my thinking was or is. "poor old slydini" indeed! I stated when I posted on this jacket, that I love it, and may be the last Indy jacket I'll ever buy. Do not dare to begin to think you know me!

Let's not get excited. I did not mean to offend you. Why would I do that? When I said "poor old slydini" implied compassion for someone who paid dearly and might not got what he wanted...

slydini · Post by **slydini** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:20 pm

PLATON wrote:Slydini wrote

I suggest you stick to your reviews of the jacket alone. How dare you presume to know what my thinking was or is. "poor old slydini" indeed! I stated when I posted on this jacket, that I love it, and may be the last Indy jacket I'll ever buy. Do not dare to begin to think you know me!
Let's not get excited. I did not mean to offend you. Why would I do that? When I said "poor old slydini" implied compassion for someone who paid dearly and might not got what he wanted...

I stated that I loved it when I posted about the jacket, what part of that was not clear?

Post by **Holt** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:24 pm

keep it civil guys.

slydini · Post by **slydini** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:26 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:keep it civil guys.

I apologize. Just got a bit riled. Will not happen again.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:37 pm

So, Slydini, what exactly did you ask for, if anything? Can you give us a brief description of how the conversation went while ordering?

slydini · Post by **slydini** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:38 pm

agent5 wrote:So, Slydini, what exactly did you ask for, if anything? Can you give us a brief description of how the conversation went while ordering?

I called Tony and asked him if he was making a Raiders jacket. He confirmed, and I ordered it.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:50 pm

Sounds about as basic as can be. No expectations whatsoever. Kinda like G&B. Here's an Indy jacket. Take it or leave it. Simple.

slydini · Post by **slydini** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:57 pm

Pretty much the way it went. I might also add, dealing with Tony with the CS jacket, I knew if he felt anything would not work for a real word jacket, he would change it. That's what one of the many things I like about Tony.

junior · Post by **junior** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:16 pm

man this is fun. brings back dialogue from the old days, only this time i get to sit back on the sidelines and just watch the game.

too bad 'ol Austin Powers isn't here anymore, that would make things real interesting.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:32 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many hero jackets were there?

I seem to see at least 2, possibly 3 jackets worn by Ford during Raiders. I see 2 different pocket shapes. Longer, rectangular in the Well of Souls and Raven Bar scenes and more square at the start of the temple scenes. Also, just before the Flying Wing scene by the tomb there appears to be another jacket with all that pulling and wear across the left breast which is not visible in other scenes.

Is it possible that Ford wore stunt jackets on set also like he apparently did during the ToD filming? Is it in fact futile to identify the hero jacket?

One feature they all seem to share is piping on the top of the pocket flap.

Do we know which jacket is the one Deb hand aged? There appear to be 2 different jackets worn on the sound stage scenes, so it can't be both.

Cheers

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:05 pm

slydini ordered and got something made by Tony Nowak. slydini loves it.........that's all that matters in the end.

us (and including me) stitch nazis can pick apart the conflicting details of his jacket but in no way should we belittle his purchase....that's not what this place is about. and slydini.....sometimes things get lost in english translation from other countries........somethings may sound offensive but some people don't really mean to go there. i'm not speaking about platon specifically but i get posts sometimes that i have to reread to make sure that i don't need to go over there and rip their hearts out mola ram style

.....{that means you _!!!!! just kidding}

anyways back on topic. i spoke with TN for a looooong time today. got him to make some revisions for me so that his jacket is an EXACT copy of......of..........of........well, MY INTERPRETATION of what the hero jacket should look like

....i'm not gonna say that what he will make me is what was on ford's back, but it will be per what i see with my eyes and have paid other vendors to capture on their jackets.

what i revised - pocket flap shape, patch pocket corners, everyone's favourite yoke/sleeve seam alignment, strap anchors and hardware (buckles to be precise). i asked for a less grainy hide if he had it......but he was so in love with it, that i didn't have the heart to get a different hide. as for me, that grainy dino-hide reminds me of my todd's custom (#5 that he made).....and i didn't mind that hide at all.

i took #10/888 after my all time hockey hero - guy lafleur of the montreal canadiens.

looking forward to this one. Mr. Nowak is a pure gentleman. he asked me, "what am i going to do if everyone asks for these changes?".....i told him, "you don't have to tell them if they don't know for themselves....". he replied, "i have to tell everyone to make sure that they know."

a class act in my book. so, take it easy on him folks........i've hopefully opened the door for some of you who want his jacket closer to what we've been banterring about for years........some of you may want the exact thing that he has in hand. the choice is yours. Tony will work with you to make sure you get what you want.

cheers,

G

{hey castor.......indiana g pulls ahead by a nose ;-) }

Post by **Holt** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:12 pm

G did you ask anything about the durability on this hide and construction?

did he say beat the ------- out of this jacket too?

and Slydini I LOVE your jacket.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:21 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:G did you ask anything about the durability on this hide and construction?

did he say beat the ------- out of this jacket too?

and Slydini I LOVE your jacket.

not really.......i trust Mr. Nowak to provide us a resiliant hide and solid constrution. his CS jacket is a testament to that so i'm not going to second guess him on that aspect.

plus......i'm not that rough on my gear to the point that i need reinforced stuff....only so much adventure that you can get in an office

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:24 pm

i asked for a less grainy hide if he had it......but he was so in love with it, that i didn't have the heart to get a different hide.

Dude...you're paying a grand. What are you, the Tin Man? Ask the great and powerful Oz for your heart back and ask for what you truly want!

Jeez.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:31 pm

agent5 wrote:
i asked for a less grainy hide if he had it......but he was so in love with it, that i didn't have the heart to get a different hide.
Dude...you're paying a grand. What are you, the Tin Man? Ask the great and powerful Oz for your heart back and ask for what you truly want! Jeez.

i like it.....the jacket he has looks like it.....ford's back panel in the truck drag and his right shoulder in the WOS escape had some impurities in the hide......good enough for me

if i didn't use my heart, i wouldn't be in this gig........i mean, where is the logic in buying $1K jacket, $300 hats, $700 whips, and $500 boots??? you can't rationalize it at all......not with my paycheque.

but that's where my passion is.......in the end, its still cheaper than golf

slydini · Post by **slydini** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:56 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:G did you ask anything about the durability on this hide and construction?

did he say beat the ------- out of this jacket too?

Yup. I asked him about treating it and he gave me the heck no speech.

Post by **Holt** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:57 pm

slydini · Post by **slydini** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:59 pm

I want to thank everyone for their kind words.
I really didn't mean to blow up like I did. Anyone who knows me, knows that is the opposite of who I am. Heck, if it wasn't for everyone here, I would not have the jacket I have now.
I find this site to be extremely helpful and I thank you all.
I look forward to seeing other jackets as they find their homes.

Post by **Holt** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:00 pm

what size is that jacket Sly?

slydini · Post by **slydini** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:04 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:what size is that jacket Sly?

50

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:30 pm

I asked him about treating it and he gave me the heck no speech.

Exactly what Peter told me the day I ordered my first Wested. I could never and still cannot understand why someone would get a brand new jacket and slather it all up with Pecards. Completely unnecessary unless you're subjecting it constantly to extreme temps in either direction.

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:28 am

I'm still somewhat suprised to see that most of you Raiders jacket experts here have not addressed issue I brought up: Low yoke and sleeve seam lining up + inner sewn side straps = Screen accuracy. Did Nowak secure a Raiders jacket with (some of) these specs? Seriously,do we have to re-consider the whole SA "80s cut" etc, etc specs when they might be "off" for given versions of the hero jacekt? (i.e. in this case, the jacket used on the first day of filming, for example?) Please share your thoughts. Inquiring minds want to know...
Have a better one!

Post by **Holt** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:50 am

to give you my thoughts about the 80's cut is that I think there never was such a thing.I think the jacket was a regular fit only slightly modifed to fit Ford more.thats were we get the 80's cut from,cause the film was made in the 1980's and the jacket was modyfied before shooting.I think the jacket was only modyfied in the lower torso area,not the chest.the chest looks like a full cut..People might think there was a pattern called 80's cut pattern back then.thats is not likely IMO it was just some jacket that was a little modyfied...but I can never know for sure..only my own speculations after lots of digging......

also,when I look at slydini's jacket which is copied directly from the raiders jacket I dont see a trim fitting 80's cut jacket no matter how big the jacket is.you can tell by the look of the armholes.High or full..slydini's jacket has fuller armholes.meaning no 80's cut IMO.

I just made a thread explaining why I have allways seen the raiders jacket as a baggy jacket and NOT a trim one.

have a look.
viewtopic.php?t=34962

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:52 am

sebas wrote:I'm still somewhat suprised to see that most of you Raiders jacket experts here have not addressed issue I brought up: Low yoke and sleeve seam lining up + inner sewn side straps = Screen accuracy. Did Nowak secure a Raiders jacket with (some of) these specs? Seriously,do we have to re-consider the whole SA "80s cut" etc, etc specs when they might be "off" for given versions of the hero jacekt? (i.e. in this case, the jacket used on the first day of filming, for example?) Please share your thoughts. Inquiring minds want to know...
Have a better one!

It's been stated that the jacket delivered to Tony was THE Hero jacket. You''l have to read back.
Some responses have questioned this, but until proven otherwise I see no reason to question this information.

Some have posted evidence that the early Wested jackets (which should have been the closest to the original pattern) had features similar to the jacket reproduced by Tony. Others have shown evidence that not all jackets used in the movie were exactly the same.
It's my feeling that the jackets people have developed specs for as the 'true' SA Raiders jacket (obviously still not conclusive as specs seem to change daily) is an amalgam of the different jackets seen being used in the movie.
This reproduced jacket is of the original Hero jacket as cited by _.

I see no reason for some of the vehement bashing of the TN jacket. If you like it buy it, if not because it doesn't support some of the current idea of the ultimate Raiders jacket, don't . It's simple.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:54 am

Indiana Holt wrote:to give you my thoughts about the 80's cut is that I think there never was such a thing.I think the jacket was a regular fit only slightly modifed to fit Ford more.thats were we get the 80's cut from,cause the film was made in the 1980's and the jacket was modyfied before shooting.I think the jacket was only modyfied in the lower torso area,not the chest.the chest looks like a full cut...People might think there was a pattern called 80's cut pattern back then.thats is not likely IMO it was just some jacket that was a little modyfied...but I can never know for sure..only my own speculations after lots of digging......

also,when I look at slydini's jacket which is copied directly from the raiders jacket I dont see a trim fitting 80's cut jacket no matter how big the jacket is.you can tell by the look of the armholes.High or full..slydini's jacket has fuller armholes.meaning no 80's cut IMO.

I just made a thread explaining why I have allways seen the raiders jacket as a baggy jacket and NOT a trim one.

have a look.
viewtopic.php?t=34962

yes well stated