"New" Used MkVII from Wested/NH - Help!!!

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:33 pm

Today (less than a week after ordering!) my used MkVII came from Wested! Now when I got this thing I opened it up and checked it out, of course, and BOY was I surprised at how cool they are! But this particular bag has me feeling a little confused, kind of emotional, and I'd like some opinions from you guys.

Here's the deal: this bag has some sort of black powder on it. It looks like ASH! It also has some sharpie or other pen writing on the front of it that says "AESF Decontam No/D" and an MF in a circle. The inside flap has the Mark VII stamp, too. AND - get this. I found something inside. "What was it, McFly?" A single black rubber glove.

??

Should I wash the bag? Should I try and get the writing off of the front and just keep photos to remember what it said? Should somebody here buy me another one so I don't have to worry about it? ;-) I'm really at a loss with how to treat this. I feel like it's a piece of history, that may or may not have been in a battle, and judging by what looks like the ash on the front and back (didn't come out well in the pics), maybe somebody died with this thing! The strap is very dark (ashy) too. This black dust is also not coming off with slaps (60 year old black powder difficult to remove?)

Here's pics!

Sorry for my bad syntax and all that - I'm in a rush because I have to go, and I'm also very excited about this bag. Also, is there a way to find out the history of this particular bag? Who it was issued to and all that?

Please inform!!

Shane

Ronski · Post by **Ronski** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:40 pm

Well,
The black "ash" is probally carbon, used in decontaminating the mask that was in it. We still use it today for the same reason.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:42 pm

That looks like Lord Vader's glove there.

moviematt1989 · Post by **moviematt1989** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:16 pm

Yeah, I'm more worried about what it was contaminated by and if you should be touching it!...ash...WWII...you never know....

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:51 pm

Mine wasn't covered in an ash but was covered in mostly non SA writing, "M"s and such. Should I wash it/dye it? Your advice, I would much prefer a cleaner bag but I don't want to totally destroy the bag either!!!!!!!! Heres some pics!

So, I want to remove all of the writing and markings without huring the bag details like the side discs and such. What cyle of wash do you recommend?

The ties are such a great deal though! Atkinson ties for that price. However, I did have to send gemma an extra $20 for her to "dispatch it". So, I paid $100 for these items. I really don't know about Wested sometimes...Oh well!

BTW, are these original issue bags?.....

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:58 pm

moviematt1989 wrote:Yeah, I'm more worried about what it was contaminated by and if you should be touching it!...ash...WWII...you never know....

I don't know about the British army, but the Dutch army used to have gassmask drills in which they used a gass that made you throw-up. My dad talked about these a number of times and always mentioned that they had to clean everything with carbon. If they didn't, residu from the gass would remain and could make you ill for a long time after the drill.

so, maybe it was something like this. In that case the carbon absorbed the substance that contaminated the bag and it is harmless now.

Regards, Geert

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:08 pm

Ok, great, got the possible WWI army dust thing out of the way. What about suggestions, guys? Should we wash or not wash?

Will it even come out. Bleach?

whipitgood · Post by **whipitgood** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:25 pm

I had the same problem with my WPG bag. I asked for a distressed looking MKVII and they sent me one with writing all over it. I had to pay to ship it back and also to ship the replacement. 3x the shipping cost near killed me. I'm actually suprised you didn't buy one from WPG as they seem pretty reasonable. Were they out?

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:35 pm

No, I just figured Noels stuff would retain some collector value. I guess I can try washing it tomorrow. Should I use a bleach pen on the written areas or?...

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:25 am

RS - yes, I believe they are actually original issue bags. Does yours have a stamp with a date inside the flap? Mine says Mark VII 1943 inside it, though I'm not sure if that means it was made or used in that year.

Do you guys think the carbon will come out easily or will it be a pain? I've read in other threads like this about just soaking the bag and scrubbing it (with what?) and letting it air dry (right?), but will that get the writing out, too, or just the carbon (and possibly little blood spots)?

Shane

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:40 am

well, I hve been thinking and I guess you could wash the bag first. That would lighten the markings. Scurb with cleaner or possible alcohol?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:42 am

My question to you is this: When you ordered the bag, were you expecting a used MKVII with various markings on the outside of the bag, or were you expecting a used MKVII that looked like an Indy bag, the only markings being on the inside flap? If the later, then you did not receive what you thought you ordered. If, at the time of ordering, you were aware that the bags may have various written markings on the outside of the bag, then it is reasonable to expect your bags to look like these. Yes, there may be historical significance with these bags, but the same could be said of ALL original bags, used or unissued. Just because the bag "belonged" to Noel Howard doesn't really make it any more special or collectible than if you got an original bag from Endicott's, WPG, or even eBay. Noel didn't make the bags, he just scored on them like all the others.

For all intents and purposes, my thinking is that every one of you ordered an "Indy bag," not a collectible WWII gas mask bag. If you received something different than what you were expecting, then why settle?

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:47 am

I wasn't really expecting a nice looking Indy bag - I mean Wested's site said they would be "in used or 2nd hand condition an may have insignia on it." If you don't want the writing, they also offer unused original bags. So it's not a case of getting something unexpected.

Rather, its a case of getting something you did expect and wondering how to treat it. Because although I wouldn't mind trying to remove the "decontam no/d MF" writing, I'd like to keep the MkVII stamp on the inside, and the strap (I'll keep it folded inside the bag or something). And even MORE so, I'm not sure about how to wash it because when I washed my WPG repro, I believe it shrunk just a little.

Shane

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:56 am

McFly wrote:I wasn't really expecting a nice looking Indy bag - I mean Wested's site said they would be "in used or 2nd hand condition an may have insignia on it." If you don't want the writing, they also offer unused original bags. So it's not a case of getting something unexpected.

Rather, its a case of getting something you did expect and wondering how to treat it. Because although I wouldn't mind trying to remove the "decontam no/d MF" writing, I'd like to keep the MkVII stamp on the inside, and the strap (I'll keep it folded inside the bag or something). And even MORE so, I'm not sure about how to wash it because when I washed my WPG repro, I believe it shrunk just a little.

Shane

First, I'd try a little biro remover... "Stain Devils Brand" over here do one. Then a gentle hand wash with some mild clothing detergent.

I've usually just thrown them in the wash on warm and run them a couple of times. Originals came through with flying colours. WPG shrank and distorted. Just my experience so beware!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:56 am

McFly wrote:I wasn't really expecting a nice looking Indy bag - I mean Wested's site said they would be "in used or 2nd hand condition an may have insignia on it." If you don't want the writing, they also offer unused original bags. So it's not a case of getting something unexpected.

Gotcha. I didn't see the website listing, which is why I asked. Since they seem to point that out up front, then yes, it makes sense that you received the bag you did. It's when information like that is not posted for the buyers that things get a little muddled.

First of all, I would not bleach the bag since it will compromise the integrity of the bag. But I would assume the writing on the outside is more permanent than the date stamp on the inside. I'd wash the bag by hand and let it drip dry, though. Soaking the bag in OxyClean seems to be the most effective method. I'm not sure if scrubbing the outside will also affect the stamp on the flip side.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:27 am

Interesting. Alright, so those sound like viable methods. Do you think if I lightly traced the stamp with an ultra-fine point Sharpie it'd have a much greater chance of staying in there? I really don't want to lose that thing.

And also, when you soak them in the Oxy, do you just use regular cold water? How long do you let the bags just sit in there (assuming that's what you mean).

Shane

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:32 am

I can't say on the sharpie trick. But I let mine soak for a while, and then resoaked it a few times in a clean bath to make sure I got the dirt out. The water turns pretty ugly at first.

SonofJoker · Post by **SonofJoker** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:47 pm

I found my shoulder bag today in fact at my local surplus store. The stamp on the inside reads Vll, some word that I cannot make out and then says 1943. It's a tan color and not really the green color that I see most people with. But it's got some rust on it and what almost looks like blood. But I was lucky as it was the only one they had! I'd post picks, but I'm not sure how to do that.

Restless Dreamer · Post by **Restless Dreamer** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:07 pm

I bought my MKVII from WPG. I felt a little guilty by removing the cotton strap (like I was raping history itself). Mine also has some writing inside of it but I haven't washed the bag so far. Writings are fading away, BTW, the more I use the bag, the less they are visible.

BUT here's the big deal. WPG messed with my order and I came up receiving TWO bags (Sharjah, SAIF Zone, Dubai, Salinas, San Francisco, it really seemed an intercontinental mystery, I felt like a modern Zak McKracken). I haven't even touched the second one and I will keep it safe from distress. It's like a redemption for "mutilating" the first one.

whipitgood · Post by **whipitgood** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:22 pm

Restless Dreamer wrote:I bought my MKVII from WPG. I felt a little guilty by removing the cotton strap (like I was raping history itself.

I wouldn't worry about messing with history, as there is a ridiculous amount of this stuff lying around. History will be preserved just fine and with one less MKVII cluttering someones warehouse.

Inbanana · Post by **Inbanana** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:41 pm

This is why I prefer replica bags... and try to avoid surplus in general (unless... possibly, that its actually in unissued condition). I know its weird, and that there's a certain appeal to being able to obtain items just like the ones used in the movies... its just that I kind of would rather know the "history" of some of those items...

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:35 pm

I let mine soak in Oxyclean for a day then let it rest in water and I am about to wash it but I don't think the writing is going to come off...

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:34 pm

Well, I let this soak in Oxyclean and then washed. It stiffed up a little bit and the color kinda improved but the writing is still there

Where do I find that Stain Devil's Brand stuff?.....and will that work?

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:55 pm

Hey RS - try this!

http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf151533.tip.html

It says to try hairspray on the sharpie / poermanent marker areas to get it off. I'm going to try that with mine and then just throw the bag in the wash. If KT Templar says he's washed a bunch of these original bags in the wash (warm) and they've been fine, that's probably good enough for me. Also, he's had the same effect on his repros that I have. So it sounds like an alright idea. I'll post results later.

I've also tried darkening the Mark VII stamp with some ink and pencil and I'll report on that later, too.

Shane

ReturningSon · Post by **ReturningSon** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:56 pm

cool! Cannot wait for the results. I washed my bag and it came out fine!

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:02 pm

Mine didn't come out all the way but its much better than before. It's still clear what it is though. Also, the bag seems to have lightened up a little, especially where I tried to get the words off. The whole bag looks very nice though now, and very clean. No noticeable shrinking effects.

How did you get your writing off? I used the hairspray + toothbrush (maybe get a new one? I used an old one from the garage), tried alcohol, and tried goof off. The stamp I traced stayed on fine through one wash, but came out after the second (although it was much easier to trace after the second time. I think some ink came up that made it look better, so I just traced it over again).

Shane

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:02 pm

Ronski wrote:Well,
The black "ash" is probally carbon, used in decontaminating the mask that was in it. We still use it today for the same reason.

Carbonite!

Know how you feel there, surplus stuff like that makes me jumpy sometimes, never know what kind of bad stuff it's been around

I saw an army shirt at a surplus store once absolutely COVERED in blood stains and a couple of bullet holes.. You about know someone died in that thing!

Randy

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:58 pm

the black ash is most likely from the gas mask canister, which is filled with carbon pellets. Remember these are WW2 gas mask bags.

Bentonite clay is used for decontaminating.

These used bags will have names, unit markings etc on them. You can try to scrub them off, or you can use 'cappo'. 'webbo' blanko' to colour the back. These are what soldiers used to treat webbing items. It's like latex paint in a way. In fact you could use latex paint.

edit: that should read 'pack' not 'back'

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:14 pm

RCSignals wrote: Bentonite clay is used for decontaminating.

Bentonite....... A.K.A. Fuller's Earth

very funny factoid ;-)

Regards, Geert

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:00 pm

yes.

It comes as a very fine powder in a sort of gauze type 'Mitt' for decontamination.

I think some Cat Litter is also Bentonite clay

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:06 pm

Yes it is: some even says "Fuller's earth" on the bag.

Regards, Geert

jedidentist · Post by **jedidentist** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:01 am

I don't think you're going to be getting that writing off. I'd go for another.

Indiana Hutch · Post by **Indiana Hutch** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:08 pm

Restless Dreamer wrote:I bought my MKVII from WPG. I felt a little guilty by removing the cotton strap (like I was raping history itself). Mine also has some writing inside of it but I haven't washed the bag so far. Writings are fading away, BTW, the more I use the bag, the less they are visible.

BUT here's the big deal. WPG messed with my order and I came up receiving TWO bags (Sharjah, SAIF Zone, Dubai, Salinas, San Francisco, it really seemed an intercontinental mystery, I felt like a modern Zak McKracken). I haven't even touched the second one and I will keep it safe from distress. It's like a redemption for "mutilating" the first one.

I felt the same way, due to the fact that I actually own the mask that goes in the bag. You got lucky on the "buy one get one free" mistake. Kudos.