TONY NOWAK IS REPLICATING AN ORIGINAL RAIDERS JACKET!!
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Just to clarify, I'm saying he's not copying mistakes, he never said it. And I'm thinking along the lines of copying wavy stitching, that sort of thing.Satipo wrote:What worries me is - what would be considered "mistakes"?Baldwyn wrote:I just talked to Tony, and his idea for the Raiders jacket is very compelling. Not a copy, but a re-creation. A jacket for real life. Yep, he's not copying mistakes here.
One man's meat is another man's poison.
And after talking to the man? I'm not worried at all I'm just going to wait and see and try really hard not to buy another jacket.
_, you are NOT KIDDING when you say you saw the light, and have joined the choir!_ wrote:Mistakes:
Aluminum hardware is a big one...
The majority of it is stuff you'll never see but will make the jacket hold its shape and provide years of wear. Tony did not exactly copy the prototype, though on the outside it looked like a copy. I do not say that lightly - Bernie would make the most dedicated stitch Nazi cry "uncle" in the way he examines details and measurements. But Bernie also wanted it to be "the real McCoy" i.e. as tough as it really always should have been. Ask Fedora what the hats had to hold up to. Bernie wanted everything to be bullet-proof, just like the hero...
Tony has told me he knows how to balance the pattern from size to size, with the most important thing being the retention of the look for the individual wearer. While I've heard that before from jacket makers, I'm wearing a CS that "walks the walk"....
Y'all worry too much... By the way you’re sounding, you’d think somebody made claims of original patterns… Oh, yeah… Nevermind…
;-)
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This is what I was getting at in my earlier post, and what I find most interesting, even if I'll likely not be able to afford one. I think this is the most important detail that could be carried over.Tony has told me he knows how to balance the pattern from size to size, with the most important thing being the retention of the look for the individual wearer.
It would be very interesting to know whether the Novak 'original jackets' have a 'Bermans & Nathan' label or a 'Leather Concessionaires' label.
Both would have been my design he is copying but there is a difference.
I know I produce my own version of the CS jacket but it is only a modified LC jacket which is a modified ROLA therefore a modification of my original design.
To reproduce my original, which I still maintain to have 'Intellectual property right' too has dissapointed me as I thought Tony Novak to be more principled but then he may have been put up to it by Lucas Films.
Either way the price is ridiculous.
It is no longer a case of what can the fans afford but how much can I get away with. Just my opinion.
Peter
Both would have been my design he is copying but there is a difference.
I know I produce my own version of the CS jacket but it is only a modified LC jacket which is a modified ROLA therefore a modification of my original design.
To reproduce my original, which I still maintain to have 'Intellectual property right' too has dissapointed me as I thought Tony Novak to be more principled but then he may have been put up to it by Lucas Films.
Either way the price is ridiculous.
It is no longer a case of what can the fans afford but how much can I get away with. Just my opinion.
Peter
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Hmm ... ;-)coronado3 wrote:I just can't wait until some of you have bought tony's jackets and decide you don't like them so i can buy them off of you for cheap!
C3
You know, I've been meaning to say this for a while now ... I think a lot of you are buying sizes that are way too big. Why not try something smaller, like, I dunno - a 40R for instance? I mean, what have you got to lose?
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What's that difference Peter? I mean: did you provide to the production jackets with the "Leather Concessionaires" label too? If not, this jacket can not be an original.PETER wrote:It would be very interesting to know whether the Novak 'original jackets' have a 'Bermans & Nathan' label or a 'Leather Concessionaires' label.
Both would have been my design he is copying but there is a difference.
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Ha HAH! Yes!, Peter is the MAN! I've been waiting for that.
As for Nowak or Lucas not keeping you in the loop Peter....I don't have to tell a man of your experience, Hollywood isn't very principled. Though it is surprising from Lucas because he's mister properties...well...from "A certain point of view" Lucas probably believes the jacket design came out of his creativity....
Best Wishes,
Matt
As for Nowak or Lucas not keeping you in the loop Peter....I don't have to tell a man of your experience, Hollywood isn't very principled. Though it is surprising from Lucas because he's mister properties...well...from "A certain point of view" Lucas probably believes the jacket design came out of his creativity....
Best Wishes,
Matt
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From what I've been told for years, yes. That's why it's been such a 'sticky wicket' regarding licensing and the like.
I'm sure you've already done so, but if not, read the ROTLA jacket history on the main page. It's been the ROTLA jacket and that jacket alone that has shared ownership, and Peter does indeed hold IP rights on the design, but not SOLE rights. That's been his 'ace in the hole', and smart move on his part 'back in the day'. ;-)
If you'll do some reading, George Lucas has since held complete iron clad rights to all his work ever since his films went global, but was pretty lax in his contract work at the beginning.
Regards! Michaelson
I'm sure you've already done so, but if not, read the ROTLA jacket history on the main page. It's been the ROTLA jacket and that jacket alone that has shared ownership, and Peter does indeed hold IP rights on the design, but not SOLE rights. That's been his 'ace in the hole', and smart move on his part 'back in the day'. ;-)
If you'll do some reading, George Lucas has since held complete iron clad rights to all his work ever since his films went global, but was pretty lax in his contract work at the beginning.
Regards! Michaelson
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I think that this new Raiders jacket is interesting. I understand that there is going to be modifications to make this jacket bulletproof. But why, Indiana Jones is not bulletproof, he gets shot in the arm in Raiders, he gets beat up, tossed around. I guess Tony Novak is just trying to create a jacket to withstand a beating IMO. Some people like that, and this fine by me. I really stand with Peter on this, and I enjoy Peters jackets. Nothing against Tony Novak, if you want one of this jackets I am sure they are great jackets. Unfortunately his jackets are too expensive for me and I don't see how I could spend $700-$900 on one jacket. I would rather get two of Peter's. Just my two cents.
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Well, before you get all up and arms over what Tony may be doing, you do realize of course that clothing designs are generally not protected under current U.S. intellectual property laws? As crazy as it might sound to some, the Indy jacket is not considered "art" and thus a fashion designer does not enjoy the same protection an artist who paints with a brush does. Since the jacket is categorized as useful and functional, rather than artistic, it cannot be copyrighted. This pretty much explains why Lucasfilm can't touch makers of Indy like jackets, but can go medieval on people who make Stormtrooper replicas. In any event, if you're gonna go on the attack against Tony, why not the other suppliers who produce a ROTLA replica?PETER wrote:It would be very interesting to know whether the Novak 'original jackets' have a 'Bermans & Nathan' label or a 'Leather Concessionaires' label.
Both would have been my design he is copying but there is a difference.
I know I produce my own version of the CS jacket but it is only a modified LC jacket which is a modified ROLA therefore a modification of my original design.
To reproduce my original, which I still maintain to have 'Intellectual property right' too has dissapointed me as I thought Tony Novak to be more principled but then he may have been put up to it by Lucas Films.
Either way the price is ridiculous.
It is no longer a case of what can the fans afford but how much can I get away with. Just my opinion.
Peter
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But if you know Indiana Jones you know that the entire character came out of 30's Serials...of which Spielberg and Lucas openly credit Indy as tribute to.RCSignals wrote:I could see that extrapolation, Indiana Jones came out of his creativity, and it is the jacket of Indiana Jonesmoviematt1989 wrote:...from "A certain point of view" Lucas probably believes the jacket design came out of his creativity....
Matt
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I see what you where saying and, really, I was just jazzed to hear Peter call this one for what it is. I did'nt claim Peter to be the sole creator of the jacket, I was simply referring the 'industry's' tendency to take all the credit and their shady ways of obtaining ownership. I've done my homework and read the back story.binkmeisterRick wrote:Matt, if you read back through the history of the jacket, both in the archives and on the main site, there is a LOT of back story and things are not always as clear cut as one would think.
Best,
Matt
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Point being?...They have different wardrobe? Sure, defiantly, they are different characters.RCSignals wrote:Sure, but not necessarily any single 30's serial.
There are many similar characters and stories.
I'm simply saying that Lucas didn't dream up the costume, he's never claimed too. He actually gave a serial poster to the conceptual artist for Indy's conception. If you want to go even further, they then took those designs to Wardrobe, then Peter w/others to interpret those designs to life, It's all collaborated, that's film. The directors job is get those performances out of his crew, not take credit for them.
Best,
Matt
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Yes, this is probably why LFL can't take any action against people making pieces of functional clothing that happen to be in the same style as our hero wore.Chewie Louie wrote:Well, before you get all up and arms over what Tony may be doing, you do realize of course that clothing designs are generally not protected under current U.S. intellectual property laws? As crazy as it might sound to some, the Indy jacket is not considered "art" and thus a fashion designer does not enjoy the same protection an artist who paints with a brush does. Since the jacket is categorized as useful and functional, rather than artistic, it cannot be copyrighted. This pretty much explains why Lucasfilm can't touch makers of Indy like jackets, but can go medieval on people who make Stormtrooper replicas. In any event, if you're gonna go on the attack against Tony, why not the other suppliers who produce a ROTLA replica?
But I bet if you sold an "Indiana Jones Costume" you'd have a C&D letter in a heartbeat from LFL.
They can take action to protect a trademark or copyright, so you can't go setting up a website with pictures of Indy to sell your clothes or using any of their trademarks.
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Well hopefully not defiantly ;-)moviematt1989 wrote:Point being?...They have different wardrobe? Sure, defiantly, they are different characters.RCSignals wrote:Sure, but not necessarily any single 30's serial.
There are many similar characters and stories.
I'm simply saying that Lucas didn't dream up the costume, he's never claimed too. He actually gave a serial poster to the conceptual artist for Indy's conception. If you want to go even further, they then took those designs to Wardrobe, then Peter w/others to interpret those designs to life, It's all collaborated, that's film. The directors job is get those performances out of his crew, not take credit for them.
Best,
Matt
IJ may be an amalgam of different 30's serial characters or loosely based upon them, but he is still a creation of SS and Lucas.
A vision and concept starts it off and it's developed from there, with many hands participating, as you point out. It's still a LFL development.
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Michaelson said this yesterday, but it bears repeating:
Michaelson wrote:From what I've been told for years, yes. That's why it's been such a 'sticky wicket' regarding licensing and the like.
I'm sure you've already done so, but if not, read the ROTLA jacket history on the main page. It's been the ROTLA jacket and that jacket alone that has shared ownership, and Peter does indeed hold IP rights on the design, but not SOLE rights. That's been his 'ace in the hole', and smart move on his part 'back in the day'. ;-)
If you'll do some reading, George Lucas has since held complete iron clad rights to all his work ever since his films went global, but was pretty lax in his contract work at the beginning.
Regards! Michaelson
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I don't think US Wings or Todd's etc. have been sued by either Peter or LFL, have they?binkmeisterRick wrote:I wouldn't say the jacket rights are completely in any one person's hands, but that the mixed ownership allowed for the jacket to be available to the public as it has been.
There's also "laches" - even if there was something protectable in the jacket "design" itself (which I doubt), if you haven't enforced your ownership of the IP then your case is weakened.
I agree with Chewie Louie.
(of course I am not sure about UK law)
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The Belstaff "Indy" jacket's one of the finest garments I've ever had the pleasure of wearing. The pricing of the "Indy" is more or less in-line with all their other offerings. They've had to build-in licensing costs, etc. In terms of quality, I can't fault it.citRon wrote:One word...BelstaffPETER wrote: Either way the price is ridiculous.
It is no longer a case of what can the fans afford but how much can I get away with. Just my opinion.
Peter
No one has to buy a Belstaff. I love my Westeds but the Belstaff has a special place in my wardrobe too. It's all about supply and demand.
I have no problems with TN offering a high end option. It brings something new to the mix.
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and this certainly illustrates that, from the original concept onbinkmeisterRick wrote:I wouldn't say the jacket rights are completely in any one person's hands, but that the mixed ownership allowed for the jacket to be available to the public as it has been.
http://indygear.com/igjacket-RotLA.html
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Absolutly true.RCSignals wrote:Well hopefully not defiantly ;-)moviematt1989 wrote:Point being?...They have different wardrobe? Sure, defiantly, they are different characters.RCSignals wrote:Sure, but not necessarily any single 30's serial.
There are many similar characters and stories.
I'm simply saying that Lucas didn't dream up the costume, he's never claimed too. He actually gave a serial poster to the conceptual artist for Indy's conception. If you want to go even further, they then took those designs to Wardrobe, then Peter w/others to interpret those designs to life, It's all collaborated, that's film. The directors job is get those performances out of his crew, not take credit for them.
Best,
Matt
IJ may be an amalgam of different 30's serial characters or loosely based upon them, but he is still a creation of SS and Lucas.
A vision and concept starts it off and it's developed from there, with many hands participating, as you point out. It's still a LFL development.