FINALLY ordered my Wested Custom Raiders...

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:35 am

After months of research, going back and forth with Todd's XL and now XXL standard offerings, I came to the conclusion that I need a custom jacket.

Due to this discovery, it had to be a Wested. Main reason is cost; I can get a custom made Horse Hide jacket for less than a Todd's custom in Lamb or Cow (to be fair, Tod's custom is a nice jacket; I think the Wested is the way to go, and a bit cheaper in what is typically a more 'premium' hide). Second reason is pedigree. I always WANTED a Wested anyway, but tried to save a few hundred dollars. Not that the Wsested is overpriced- it is an excellent buy, but the Todd's is OUTSTANDING if you can get the right fit (as many members have).

So, I trolled the posts here for quite a while, looked at photos of delivered jackets and screen captures, watched the movie until my eyes bled, and compiled my own laundry list of specs for the jacket. Along with the list, I included several photos of the details in question, to make it as easy as possible for Peter and Gemma to sort though it all.

I also included most of my measurements (not just the jacket ones) to make sure the proportions of the jacket on my body are correct. (I may get a pair of NH pants and/or a shirt too). I even 'scaled up' the pocket size, as I have seen bigger jackets where the pockets were left at original dimension, and that blows the "screen accurate" look- the look is the proportions of the pockets to the surrounding real estate, so if the jacket is bigger or smaller than Ford's size (which was 40 from what I can gather) they look 'wrong'. Hopefully, I did OK on this...

I also opted for Horse Hide. It is just a better leather in my opinion. NOT screen acurate, I know. However, it will survive my real world adventures as well as costuming. So, if I can only have one jacket (as has become the case) I want one to last my lifetime. So, no comments about scren accuracy of the leather- of course we'll all see how good it loks after a bit of wear and tear... ;-)

So, without further delay, I present MY custom laundry list of demands for Wested Leather:

• Size 42L (note sizing details at bottom)
• Raiders style / 80's fit ('919' pattern?)
• Brown Horse Hide
• Cotton Silesia lining for body and pockets; sleeves only in satin
• 5 gauge NICKEL zipper with small zipper pull that extends to the bottom of the jacket
• ¼ - 3/8 inch wide or NO leather facing on zipper (not the wide facing please!) if possible
• Storm flap 1.5” width with rounded top corner as shown in picture attached
• Standard Raiders collar ending HALFWAY between the zipper and the storm flap (see photo attached) (~ 3 inches wide at the tip?)
•pockets 7.25” tall x 6.75” wide with scalloped flaps and nickel snaps (Scaled up "PLATON" pockets- see photo attached) +5%
• Side strap 7” length, 1”width with X-BOX pattern, double stitched
• Two piece black rectangular metal buckles
• Pleat depth 1.5”
• Elastic to keep pleats neat?
• NO side vent stitches
• Arm seam should be 1” BELOW the yoke seam, OR raise yoke seam 1 inch higher and add material to back piece as needed (which ever is easier and allows comfortable movement) (Note movie stills attached)
• Back panel should extend all the way out to the arm seam
• ONE zipper-less, SLIT (narrow piped) pocket ON THE LEFT INSIDE ONLY
• One-piece underarm gussets (two piece if possible)

My body measurements:
Height: 6 feet 2 inches
Chest measurement: 42 inches (lungs full of air, over t-shirt)

Leather Jacket Measurements:
Sleeve length: (?- should be about 37 if measured like a dress shirt I suspect )
Back length: 28 inches to cover the pocket flaps while standing straight (is that about right?)
Collar: About 17.5-18"?

MY SUIT JACKET SIZE: 42 Long "of the rack" (I tried on many from many designers…)

DRESS SHIRT SIZE: 15.5 – 36 (34 inch back length)

Dress pants size:
WAIST: 34 ½
INSEAM: 34 ¼ (34 ¼ at the back, 33 ¼ at the front for military hem)
OUTSEAM: 45 ¼

Pictures attached are of a jacket you made a few months ago… Below that, several movie stills for reference.

Feel free to use this as a guide for YOUR ultimate Raider's jacket..

(Note again, I made a few deviations from "screen accurate" to make it more real-world useable...)

Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:10 am

whoa man.the leather is NOT screen acurrate for a raiders jacket ;-)

kidding man...mine should arrive saturday or monday.last tracked at heathrow airport.and yes..raiders horsehide.ultras thinnest batch in stock with no leather facings

also you must have a really tall torso...28'' backlength

I could swim in it...but hope it fits you in the right way

now..juts the agony of whaiting right ;-) I hate it my self...

bests
Holt

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:14 am

My Schott is 28 in the back from (what would be) the colar stand botom to the finish. It has no colar, but rather a stand up strip that snaps in the front.

when standing straight, the Schott covers the pocket flaps (just) of my pants.

The Todd's XXL I have (to go back) is 26 1/4 measured the same way and is too short (just goes to my belt) when standing straight.

So, that sems to be right for me...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:45 am

If you want a jacket that last your lifetime I think you have to order leather facings on the zipper. Just a personal opinion, of course.

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:15 pm

As far as I know, all the facings do is keep the lining out of the zipper teeth (and stiffen the front of the jacket).

As long as I'm careful, I doubt it will be a problem.

I also asked another member who has a jacket with no facings, and he said it was never a problem for him.

I did actually ask for SMALL facings, if Peter could do that, for the best of both worlds. My Carhart jacket has narrow facings (about 1/2 inch) and those sem to be about perfect. I guess we wait and see what Peter comes up with...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:16 pm

ok ;-)

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:21 pm

The waiting is the hardest part...

Called Gemma again today and she hadn't had a chance to check e-mails os of then...

So, still not 'confirmed' yet...

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:26 pm

your back length will be good. My HH is at 28 1/2" and it 'feels' just right. -I'm 6'3

My only issue with the HH is the color seems to have a bit of a grayish charcoal color to it instead of the authentic brown.
-but you know how the whole gray/brown thing goes! ;-)

-Anybody have a close up pic of the 'leather facing' for the zipper? I didn't ask for mine to not have it, but I don't think it does.

Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:38 pm

if your jacket has to strips of leather under the zipper inside the jacket then your jacket has the fascings.

does your inside look like this?you can see another additional strip of leather behind the zipper on the stormflap.see?

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj25 ... acket6.jpg

Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:45 pm

J!m wrote:
I did actually ask for SMALL facings, if Peter could do that, for the best of both worlds. My Carhart jacket has narrow facings (about 1/2 inch) and those sem to be about perfect. I guess we wait and see what Peter comes up with...

I would drop the facings all in all..no small,no nothing.the HH is a thicker jacket and with facings on the zipper it would be even heavier and stiffer to the front.at first when I ordered my LC HH I asked for small facings too on my order.but they dropped it and I'm glad they did.I could not imagine to have any kind of facings on this LC HH.the jacket works perfect without them.never had any problems zipping.

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:18 pm

I thought Wested wasn't taking custom orders to this extent anymore? I have a Raiders Novapelle hide that is only a couple months old and would have loved some of J!M's modifications. Specifically no leather facings, full length zip, and the slit inside leftside pocket.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:28 pm

There's still the 'Special request' section of the order form, I suppose.
For my last jacket, I added maybe 3 or 4 farily simple things, and asked very nicely! Never hurts to ask.
That's quite a list there though, Jim. Did you get the ok from Peter, or are you just hoping it'll be ok?

Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:33 pm

I think a 3 page order form is not going to be exepted by Peter..a couple special requests is no problem..at least that whats he told me.

I have a 1 page special request order form for my raiders that comes in saturday.and it has a very,very special request that I know for a fact that it has never been done on a jacket before.

so yes.we can have special requests but if its gonna be 3 or 4 pages then no.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:40 pm

Many of the things on his list are not special requests... Things like lining material, zipper, strap hardware, elastic in pleats, hide, sizing,no side vent stitches (that is something they don't do anymore anyway, do they?), and gussets.

So his list is quite short!

More like:
• ¼ - 3/8 inch wide or NO leather facing on zipper (not the wide facing please!) if possible
• Storm flap 1.5” width with rounded top corner as shown in picture attached
• Standard Raiders collar ending HALFWAY between the zipper and the storm flap (see photo attached) (~ 3 inches wide at the tip?)
•pockets 7.25” tall x 6.75” wide with scalloped flaps and nickel snaps (Scaled up "PLATON" pockets- see photo attached) +5%
• Side strap 7” length, 1”width with X-BOX pattern, double stitched
• Pleat depth 1.5”
• Arm seam should be 1” BELOW the yoke seam, OR raise yoke seam 1 inch higher and add material to back piece as needed (which ever is easier and allows comfortable movement) (Note movie stills attached)
• Back panel should extend all the way out to the arm seam
• ONE zipper-less, SLIT (narrow piped) pocket ON THE LEFT INSIDE ONLY

Road Warrior · Post by **Road Warrior** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:56 pm

Sounds like you put a lot of thought into your order.

I'm just wondering if they will even accept it, or what the upcharge may be if they do.

indyrocks · Post by **indyrocks** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:05 pm

I'm curious to know two things:

1-Did Peter accept those nutty specs?

2-What's the deal with asking them for no stitching on the side vents? I wasn't aware of why it's significant...does Wested stitch them closed?

Does anyone have any screen shots that demonstrate how "unstitched" the side vents should be?

I just really like this face. It makes me want to rip out your heart.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:59 am

Indiana Holt wrote:and it has a very,very special request that I know for a fact that it has never been done on a jacket before.

Three sleeves?

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:22 am

Indiana Strones wrote:
Indiana Holt wrote:and it has a very,very special request that I know for a fact that it has never been done on a jacket before.
Three sleeves?

No place for the neck to go through?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:32 am

gwyddion wrote:
Indiana Strones wrote:
Indiana Holt wrote:and it has a very,very special request that I know for a fact that it has never been done on a jacket before.
Three sleeves?
No place for the neck to go through?

He's ordered his leather to be cut upside down.

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:05 am

Well, as nutty as that list is, we only have ourselves to blame...

All those specs came from right here.

I spent a lot of time looking at photos of jackets others have received, studying the movie, 'speaking' to members and trying on suit coats, as well as my own collection of jackets, with close attention paid to where the jacket ends in relation to the belt line, to get it to look just right.

I am tall, and obviously long-torsoed (and long armed) as well. I need the length to fit me properly.

As some of us know, complete screen acuracy in a jacket will not fit many of us for several reasons. For the screen accurate look, you have to scale everything. I even considered scaling the collar dimensions (up to 3.150) as well as the storm flap width (up to 1.575 for example) to keep everything proportional, for the screen accurate LOOK. That seemed to be excessive, and the increase is so minimal anyway in such a small dimension (NOT WORTH IT!). The pockets are big enough to show the scaling, so they should be adjusted...

Plus, I want it to last a long time (so I choose a more durable leather that is not what was used in the movie). I don't expect Peter to be "happy" about my order, but to simply charge what he feels is 'right' for the details I have asked for. Another reason to get the order in as soon as possible- Halloween is coming fast, and I'm sure he gets VERY busy around then!

And, to further whittle down that list, several of those details he has already done on other jackets- I even included photos of his work to jog his memory. So, that shortens it down to these three details:

* ¼ - 3/8 inch wide or NO leather facing on zipper (not the wide facing please!) if possible

* pockets 7.25” tall x 6.75” wide with scalloped flaps and nickel snaps (Scaled up "PLATON" pockets- see photo attached) +5%

*Arm seam should be 1” BELOW the yoke seam, OR raise yoke seam 1 inch higher and add material to back piece as needed (which ever is easier and allows comfortable movement) (Note movie stills attached)

That last detail is the most difficult, and may require a pattern change. I expect him to (from my list above) delete the facings all together (I did have that as an option for him) and not change the yoke seam placement. So, with that, all he is likely to be doing is changing the pocket dimensions to keep the proportions right.

Not such an unusual list at all really- I just wanted him to have all the relevant details in one place, to make it as esasy as possible...

PS still no confirmation as of now... Maybe they will refuse the order...

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:12 am

I have a good photo of a wested with the correct storm flap/collar ratio if you need it...

C3

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:18 am

It might be your photo I set to Peter!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:10 am

J!m wrote: Maybe they will refuse the order...

Well, if they refuse the order... just buy an off the rack jacket! What's the problem??

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:24 am

I guess we wait and see what he says...

I gave him all my contact information, so we can talk it out and come to a mutually agreeable solution...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:01 am

When I ordered my "SA" Raiders to Peter I asked only for pockets, rectangular buckles and X box stitches: but....... HE made me almost all the other Agent5 specs!!! (No facings, arm seam 1" below, pleath depth 1.5, slit inner pocket, round top corner storm flap, back panel all the way). Great man!

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:03 am

Well, IS, if that is the case this will be easy for him....

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:07 pm

J!m wrote:Well, IS, if that is the case this will be easy for him....

Sure.

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:11 pm

I certainly hope so! ;-)

I think I'll end up with a nice jacket with the balance between Raider's looks and real world usefulness and durability...

Chaval85 · Post by **Chaval85** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:36 pm

Don't worry, J!m. I'm interested in a LC jacket and Wested doesn't answer me neither! I've tried to contact them during this week and nothing!

Their e-mail must be out of service!

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:16 pm

I called twice and spoke to Gemma directly.

I SUSPECT that all the "Holy cow!" jacket orders are carefully placed in Peter's in-bin for when he returns from vacation...

Just a hunch...

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:35 am

Just called again and spoke with Peter, and he is stil plaing catch-up (if anyone else is wondering why they haven't heard anything from wested).

Also, Gemma is now on Holiday, so (I suspect at least) anything remotely resembling a custom order has not ben touched in Peter's absense.

So, Peter has said he will e-mail me once he gets a look at my request.

By the way, he had a fantastic time on vacation. So, he is rested, but having to catch up at the moment.

So, please stand by!

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:52 am

Fantastic news! Glad Peter had a good break. I thought as much; that when he returned, he'd have a frighteningly large workload!
I'm hoping my jacket has arrived for it's alterations, and that he can get to work on the Temple jacket asap. I'd love to have one for Christmas, though the Australian Summer is no time to be wearing a leather jacket....I'll just look at it!

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:05 pm

Ahhh, just wear it!

Put a t-shirt on, and get all nice and sweaty in it.

no better way to naturally break in a jacket! REAL sweat!

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:28 pm

EEEwwwwwww!

;-)

Regards! Michaelson

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:32 pm

Yes, well there IS the smell to deal with...

Dead lamb and sweat...

Yummy...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:45 pm

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:54 pm

Uh, moving right along....

Regards! Michaelson

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:12 am

well, still no confirmation yet...

Can you tell I'm inpatient? No? Well, I am! I have wanted this jacket for about 27 years now! You'd think I'd learn patience in that time but... I'm SOOOOOOOOOOO close now!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:58 pm

Any news Jim?

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:40 am

Still nothing...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:51 am

J!m wrote:Still nothing...

Well, your list was veeeeery long...

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:53 am

Not really- we broke it down to three significant changes, and only one of those would be truly significant- the yoke seam/arm seam relationship.

I gave every means of contact I have, so I await the discussion. I am reasonable!

Indiana Joyce · Post by **Indiana Joyce** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:58 pm

Check out my wested questions thread. I ordered on the 17th, and although they have my money, Gemma never put my order thru apparently. Do you have any idea how much it costs to call England, two days in a row, just to find out you have to resubmit your order because it supposedly doesnt exist, yet Gemma sent me an email asking for the money?

And did you know that Peter doestn respond to private messages? What is going on? I feel like since 1981 people have been getting Westeds no problem but this year a bunch of us order and no one can even get the courtesy of an email response.

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:42 am

It really isn't that much for a phone call these days. I mean, you're spending several hundred on an item; a few dollars more to make sure it is right etc. is money well spent in my opinion.

Plus I like to hear the person's voice. You get a better feeling if they are honorable or not by the way they handle themselves on the phone.

Still no confirmation for me either, but let's remember besides the vacations, it is Halloween season and for all we know Peter may be working on a movie wardrobe too- that is his true business after all. Jackets are just a side thing, and I for one am glad he does it! Plus there are a dozen other members chomping at the bit for his ToD replica- I was one of them until I realized the Todd's didn't fit and I was forced to get only one jacket (which has to be a Raider's) due to the budget. I simply can't afford two wested customs...

I'm not making excuses for them, but we have to keep in mind our individual jackets are not the only thing they do! They have to keep the lights on and pay the employees too...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:50 am

J!m wrote: Still no confirmation for me either, but let's remember besides the vacations, it is Halloween season and for all we know Peter may be working on a movie wardrobe too- that is his true business after all. Jackets are just a side thing,

On ebay Wested has 4850 positive feedback, about 450 in the last 6 months. I call this business, not a side thing...

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:59 am

75 jackets a month? Not that huge really.

good for him, but that alone won't kep food on the table.

There has to be more work...

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:31 am

And there is: those 75 a month are only his e-bay sales, not the sales via his websites.

Regards, Geert

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:53 am

Just thinking out loud here...

Lets say 150 jackets a month (possibly optimistic) and lets assume he makes $150/per jacket. That sems like a reasonable margin, althought he may make a bit more. I enquired on larger quantities a while ago for another project and he said the pricing drops at 12 pieces, so he may in fact make more per jacket...

Anyway, that is $22,500 / month. Subtract rent, utilities, payroll (I don't know how many he has working for him). $10.00/hr (I imagine he pays more?) is $1,600.00 per employee per month... His website is likley a grand a month...

Let's not forget the eBay sales are for the import jacket, so his margin after import duty etc. may be less.

I was originally thinking the custom stuff, but quickly realized the eBay stuff is predominantly import...

Even so, $22,500 per month is not a ton of cash- that is only 270K per year before expenses! There has to be more income...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:04 pm

So you think he make other 400-500 jackets (or other garments) a month for the TV and movie productions? The entire TV and movie leather production of the planet earth (plus mars) is in the hands of Wested?

Post by **Holt** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:23 pm

what are we exactly discussing here? Peter's income and paycheck?