So, is this the 'Taper" I keep hearing about? -Christys

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:54 pm

Well I went to tweak my fur Christy's Adventurer a lttle bit. I sprayed it with room temperature distilled water from a spray bottle, not even completely soaking it. Re-shaped it, let it dry, and...
Voila! Temple of Doom plane cockpit scene recreation!

...and no, I wasn't going for that look. The brim even distorted, shrinking in and 'crinkling' up a bit.
Hmm...I guess I can try a mixing bowl-kitchen re-block now...

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Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:58 pm

Yep, you nailed the TofD cockpit hat to a tee!!!

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:59 pm

The Christy's CAN pull off a SA look!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:05 pm

well if anything, it's a one-of-a-kind!

oooh...maybe I can find a 'Willie" dress for my wife and I'm set!

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:27 pm

a hat should not react like that. is it wool? was it placed in a heatetd area to dry? this begs me to dispute that christy's felt is the same as hj's felt as the 4 hj's i have had did not react to a water bashing as such.....maybe christy's hats come with no stiffener at all then?

be careful on the reblock.....i'm thinking if the felt behaves like that, you may lose some brim to get it back to the original shape.

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:47 pm

it is little hoppy bunny rabbit fur felt. No heat- it was set damp on its' crown to dry. -Like I said, I didn't even soak it through all the way! The only part of the brim I sprayed was the back, and you can see how that reacted.
I don't think there was much stiffener in it at all- it was very floppy...which was why I was playing around with it in the first place, trying to get a better bash in it to hold.
Well, I don't have any bowls straight sided enough to try a Frankenstein's lab self re-block anyway. I might have to send this to a professional to get re-blocked.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:51 pm

at least i think you've identified an issue for all other christy owners though......gents, get your shelac out and stiffen this thing up!

.....and those that save their hats from this fate should send $5 to citron to get a new hat ;-)

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:56 pm

Indiana G wrote:
.....and those that save their hats from this fate should send $5 to citron to get a new hat ;-)

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:09 pm

Indiana G wrote:at least i think you've identified an issue for all other christy owners though......gents, get your shelac out and stiffen this thing up!

.....and those that save their hats from this fate should send $5 to citron to get a new hat ;-)

This is a issue that should have been known for some time. the felt has way to much air in it. makes it easy to block but tappers easy. It's the same stuff as the stock HJ. You take this into account with the machine stitching right at the brim break and it makes me nervous about re-blocking.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:15 pm

BendingOak wrote:
Indiana G wrote:at least i think you've identified an issue for all other christy owners though......gents, get your shelac out and stiffen this thing up!

.....and those that save their hats from this fate should send $5 to citron to get a new hat ;-)

This is a issue that should have been known for some time. the felt has way to much air in it. makes it easy to block but tappers easy. It's the same stuff as the stock HJ. You take this into account with the machine stitching right at the brim break and it makes me nervous about re-blocking.

you shouldn't worry about reblocking an hj.....she'll hold......will shrink up like a george costanza in a cold pool but she will hold ;-)

now if you're trying to account for the shrinkage by stretching the felt.......i can't promise anything there.

bottom line.....hj felt is garbage. i can say that as i've invested alot of my money to say that. the only thing worth keeping on an hj is the sweat and the liner......hmmmmm...that gives me an idea.........

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:22 pm

so, opinions wanted here- do I 'eat the cost' of the Christy's and call it a lesson learned, or do I pay to get it re-blocked, at the risk that it isn't gonna turn out decent? -Keeping in mind I'd have pay to ship it to someone, pay for the re-block, and pay to ship it back. $$$$ adding up fast!!!

Tremolo · Post by **Tremolo** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:31 pm

That´s really scaring

So that would make the Christy´s a pure dress (good weather or closed rooms) and/or display hat.
I would say that a reblock is only worth it,
if this hat really means a lot to you.

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:36 pm

Send it my way, I won't mind the taper as long as I can shrink the sweatband enough to fit

-KB

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:42 pm

Yikes!

I'm sorry citRon. I'm suddenly happy I dry bashed my Christy's. From now on, she doesn't leave the house without confirmation from the weatherman that a sunny and rainless (the two don't always go together) day is ahead of me.

Dave

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:55 pm

citron, i don't think she'll survive the reblock because i have a feeling that she'll shrink something fierce. to get the shape back, you may sacrifice some brim.....and if not, you'll have to stretch it out on the block with a danger of tearing it. that's why steve typically uses hats that are upsized to shrink them down to make a IMHJ.

my 2 cents. i've blocked 3 of my old hj hats as a test and not one of them stayed true to their size.

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:50 pm

I'd leave it alone, looks cool as is. You got a one of kind TOD hat.

Tremolo · Post by **Tremolo** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:55 pm

Just a question for the felt experts, can a hat ,that shrank and tapered like citron´s , shrink and taper even more?

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Yeah, I guess I'll leave it alone. I can't shell out the dough for a re-block anyway right now. What stinks is this was my last dark brown fedora, I'd gotten rid of the rest and this one was holding me over until my AB arrived.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:33 pm

The felt is not the only problem with the hat quality. It's not worth the $$$ to ship it.

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:35 pm

What size is your hat citron?

Weston

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:37 pm

Weston wrote:What size is your hat citron?

Weston

57 cm...

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:45 pm

Here is more Tapir:

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:49 pm

citRon wrote:so, opinions wanted here- do I 'eat the cost' of the Christy's and call it a lesson learned, or do I pay to get it re-blocked, at the risk that it isn't gonna turn out decent? -Keeping in mind I'd have pay to ship it to someone, pay for the re-block, and pay to ship it back. $$$$ adding up fast!!!

It's a junker, unless you want to try to get a refund. You can't polish a Buttercup. Don't spend good money after bad.

Vaderbreath · Post by **Vaderbreath** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:00 pm

I actually tried polishing a Buttercup once, and it's true, it was still a Buttercup. Sorry to see that your hat had such a bad reaction. It is still a nice looking hat. Did the band shrink, or does it still fit okay?

-Corey

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:34 pm

I'd say try wearing it as is. And if it tapers more, let it. Just until you get your AB. I have a fed deluxe that has tapered (nowhere near as badly as that, I must admit) and has a nice big RIP where the raiders pinch used to be, and I've been wearing it instead of my tawny fawn fed IV for a similar reason: I miss the way a brown, wide brimmed indy hat looks on me, and am using it as a tide-me-over until I get a brown one. Heck, it doesn't even have a ribbon anymore! I just put the cloth sweatband from a cheap burlington coat factory hat around it

So bottom line, who cares if it doesn't have the crown/back of the brim that you want, just wear the darn thing and feel good about it!

-KB

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:40 pm

Vaderbreath wrote:I actually tried polishing a Buttercup once, and it's true, it was still a Buttercup. Sorry to see that your hat had such a bad reaction. It is still a nice looking hat. Did the band shrink, or does it still fit okay?

-Corey

no, it fits fine- same as before...honestly, all I did was spritz it with a spray bottle! I don't think the felt was even wet on the inside of the hat!

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:00 am

I'm afraid it doesn't have to. thats how bad that felt is. The same thing took place with my Todd's HJ but i didn't even use water on it.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:49 am

My Christy's has met Scottish harsh weather and still looks like the day I first bashed it.of It's unfortunate what happened to you citRon but what happen to yours could happen to most of any other (and more expensive) brands of rabbit felt hats, not strictly to Christy's hats. Have you tried asking the seller for a reblock? (that would be the first Christy's original manufacturer reblock I've seen on COW, as far as I know).

Anyway I strongly suggest you not to attempt a tupperware-reblock. Those always go very very bad

Montana Hannah · Post by **Montana Hannah** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:53 am

I've used a spray bottle on mine a few times over the last couple of weeks and this didn't happen. In fact the more I tweak mine, the better I like it. Sorry to see this happen to yours though.

I have to confess I am a bit concerned about mine now, especially since I'm taking it on a camping trip to the English Lake District this weekend! EEP!

Looks like a sundance may be in order...

Still if the worst happens, mine really was only meant to fill the void until I can get a Fed IV anyway.

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:31 am

Mine still looks as good as new, as well. It has gotten wet, but not extensively.

I guess our collective experience eventually will create a consensus. I'd be sad if my Christys became that tapered over time, because right now it's my favorite to wear day to day.

I know it is too late to be of any help, but perhaps you should not have sprayed the whole crown-- just the area you wanted to tweak. It is often stressed that after getting wet, even the better quality hats should be allowed to dry open crown and upside down. It is also possible that the felt quality varies from sample to sample.

I also recall Fedora writing somewhere that even the relative humidity on the day the hat is made effects the degree to which it eventually may taper. I'm not trying to make excuses for the Christys, but these variables and others may account for some of the different results being experienced with the Christys and other lower priced hats (and of course, even some higher priced hats like the HJ.)

Jack

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:34 am

I'm wondering if these are made with varying degrees of stiffener in them, as others have had theirs wet with no ill effect? I can say that mine felt very un-stiff...stiff-less?...unstiff?...it was very floppy and didn't want to keep a bash. maybe the stiffener guy was on a break when this one came through the line.

I'll shoot Christy's an email, see what they say about it.

Montana Hannah · Post by **Montana Hannah** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:12 am

citRon wrote:I'm wondering if these are made with varying degrees of stiffener in them, as others have had theirs wet with no ill effect? I can say that mine felt very un-stiff...stiff-less?...unstiff?...it was very floppy and didn't want to keep a bash.

I was wondering about that too. I'd read other posts saying how floppy the felt was, but mine is really stiff and snappy. It has a "biscuit"-like crispness to it - identical to the brim of a vintage dress homburg I used to have. I had to spend a lot of time softening it up (yes, even sat on it a few times!). After I'd softened it, then wet it and dried it, it actually stiffened up again. I found it to be very pliant and easy to mold when wet, almost like modelling clay. I'm pretty happy with the way it looks now.

It does seem that Christy's QC fluctuates wildly though. Ordering one might involve taking a bit of a risk. Of course, perhaps they have been making more effort to improve the product recently - I've only had mine for about 2 weeks so can't compare it to previous models.

However only time will tell, it may indeed turn out to be a right old dog - I'll reserve my final judgment 'til I see how it handles a good traditional British downpour... (i.e. 'til about breakfast-time on Saturday) ;-)

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:16 am

My fur felt Christie's has ben in the rain, dried naturally, and shows no significant taper...

Could simply be a bad hat!

A pro re-block should have it looking right again.

I am very happy with my Christies!

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:28 am

Montana Hannah wrote: I was wondering about that too. I'd read other posts saying how floppy the felt was, but mine is really stiff and snappy. It has a "biscuit"-like crispness to it - identical to the brim of a vintage dress homburg I used to have.

Often people just say "floppy" to underline the difference from the beaver felts, doesn't mean that the hat has no stiffness at all. Christy's hats can keep their shape very well and they are easily bashed (that woud suggest that they are not completely floppy).
They have a certain amount of stiffness at first and in time they will go a bit softer. Enough for the brim to swing up and down in the wind (the same way that we see in Raiders) and that gives, to people with a certain amount of Raiders-hat-geekyness like me, lots of satisfaction.

Montana Hannah · Post by **Montana Hannah** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:31 am

Erri wrote:
Montana Hannah wrote: I was wondering about that too. I'd read other posts saying how floppy the felt was, but mine is really stiff and snappy. It has a "biscuit"-like crispness to it - identical to the brim of a vintage dress homburg I used to have.
Often people just say "floppy" to underline the difference from the beaver felts, doesn't mean that the hat has no stiffness at all. Christy's hats can keep their shape very well and they are easily bashed (that woud suggest that they are not completely floppy).
They have a certain amount of stiffness at first and in time they will go a bit softer. Enough for the brim to swing up and down in the wind (the same way that we see in Raiders) and that gives, to people with a certain amount of Raiders-hat-geekyness like me, lots of satisfaction.

Yes, I thought maybe "floppy" was kinda subjective. I've noticed that the Raiders hat is really floppy in the scene when he's running away from the Hovitos (Jovitos?) - where the wind catches the brim and flattens it to the right side of his head. My Christy's isn't anywhere near that floppy, but I expect there's quite a lot of variation on this among all hats. To be honest, I do want mine to be a lot softer eventually, for that same geeky reason! I like that "wilting in the heat" look the SOC hat has!

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:43 am

this is a little off topic, but why is the ribbon stitched on in the middle? isnt the thread more hidden whenit is stitched on more towards the bottom?

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:48 am

Montana Hannah wrote: My Christy's isn't anywhere near that floppy, but I expect there's quite a lot of variation on this among all hats. To be honest, I do want mine to be a lot softer eventually, for that same geeky reason! I like that "wilting in the heat" look the SOC hat has!

It will get there, no worries ;-)

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:03 pm

it may be fixable but its a drastic thing that might damage the hat
you will need to make a temporary shaper block like this
http://www.freewebs.com/hersir-irminsul ... splays.htm
(second picture)
one that just fits snuggly through the sweatband
then really soak just the crown
force it back into shape
and leave it to dry on the shaper
it can take a couple of days
when it's dry put the bash back in with as little water as you can manage it with

Indiana Greg · Post by **Indiana Greg** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:21 pm

Would camp-dry or scotchguard or another waterproofer prevent this?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:23 pm

Slow it? Yes. Stop it? No.

Regards! Michaelson

ANJALI · Post by **ANJALI** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:58 pm

Mine has been directly at the dustbin after a big rain in Nairobi...."adventurer"...it's a joke!
I liked this hat at the beginning but the felt, quality just a little bit above the HJ of Replix, was to thin and enough dense.
The problem is very simple...we don't find in europe felt's production of quality.
Adventurer...adventurer

Anjali

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:22 pm

Too bad some people can't get into the reality. It isn't a adventure hat just a name actually its a dress hat that is not meant to be worn in rain. No hat is taper proof. some it takes less but in the end not a single hat is able to withstand the Dutch rain

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:11 pm

There is good felt in Europe: look at the felt Marc uses.

Dutch_jones wrote:Too bad some people can't get into the reality. It isn't a adventure hat just a name actually its a dress hat that is not meant to be worn in rain. No hat is taper proof. some it takes less but in the end not a single hat is able to withstand the Dutch rain

For Dutch rain you need a hat you can go scuba diving with

Regards, Geert

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:15 pm

gwyddion wrote:There is good felt in Europe: look at the felt Marc uses.

I believe ANJALI meant rabbit felt. We all know the qualities of beaver ;-)

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:41 pm

Erri wrote:
gwyddion wrote:There is good felt in Europe: look at the felt Marc uses.
I believe ANJALI meant rabbit felt. We all know the qualities of beaver ;-)

Ah, ok. But I believe that I read in the thread about the Henry that Marc found the possible source for the rabbit felt used at the time Raiders was shot and that it came from Europe. According to him this was good rabbit felt. It's just that no hat-factory uses it to make Indy hats (well, appart from it being a part of the blend the Henry is made from I believe

)

Regards, Geert

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:02 pm

gwyddion wrote: Ah, ok. But I believe that I read in the thread about the Henry that Marc found the possible source for the rabbit felt used at the time Raiders was shot and that it came from Europe. According to him this was good rabbit felt. It's just that no hat-factory uses it to make Indy hats (well, appart from it being a part of the blend the Henry is made from I believe )

Regards, Geert

Don't know anything about this. If you can find more info I'm more than curious. I thought the raiders felt came from Brazil but again, Marc is a great digger, I wouldn't be surprised if he discovered that the raiders felt never came from there at all.

ANJALI · Post by **ANJALI** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:25 pm

Felt quality = high density = no taper
the only hat with this features was the HJ of the eighties and the british army bushhat (slouch hat in Australia).
I can't speak about the produces of Steeve and Marc. I don't have Adventurebilt.
I'm a collector of this kind of hat(slouch hat)...I have two from the boer's war (1899)...they are in perfect condition neverthless...in South Africa... very hard sun and big rains...and these hats are made in rabbit felt...
I repeat : It's a question of density.
The Christy is made with a very light felt. At first, it's very pleasant but...don't try to form it too often...and be lucky to have one not tapered at the departure(out of the box).

Anjali

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:29 pm

A bit off topic Anjali, but where is a good source for a slouch hat now-a-days?

I am interested in a nice, dense slouch hat (with no brim hook) for adventure wear...

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:30 pm

I just sent Hornet Hats an email, telling about what happened, and included the pictures. I spoke of how many others have purchased the hat and had no problems with them even in the rain, and in fact some have given their repeat business ordering other colors because they liked the hat so much.
I asked if maybe mine was from a run of bad felt, or was not given adequate stiffener, or what other causes would result in such shrinkage.
Hopefully with Christy's of London having such a reputation and brand power, they will want to help satisfy a customer with a problem such as this.
I'll keep everyone posted with the outcome.

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:59 pm

J!m wrote:A bit off topic Anjali, but where is a good source for a slouch hat now-a-days?

I am interested in a nice, dense slouch hat (with no brim hook) for adventure wear...

www.hatsdirect.com