Sad news to report, re: Herbert Johnson

MacGyver · Post by **MacGyver** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:28 pm

Hello all,

Sadly, I just spoke to my good friend in the U.K. with whom
we would visit Richard Swales at Herbert Johnson
from time to time; he informed me that Swaine Adeney/
Herbert Johnson has once again been bought out, and
also that Richard has retired. I hear that the shop was
being poorly mismanaged (or some such thing), and
Richard has apparently had enough of the situation.

I hope you all enjoy your HJ's now even more, as he
was <b>the</b> guy who made and/or oversaw the making
of the hats from day one. The hat will still be available,
but now there is no telling what the quality will be with him
gone.

A shame, I was hoping to see him again next week.
Visiting him was always a highlight whenever I'm in London.

Mac

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:43 pm

Just when Swales had attempted to bring back the Poet as it was made 20 years ago. What a shame. It's the end of an era. Did your friend say who bought HJ?

JohnNdy · Post by **JohnNdy** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:10 am

Ahhh! And just yesterday I sent my email enquiry to start the purchase process! Does this mean I won't be able to get my hat! It has taken enough time for me to finally decide to purchase one, and now this. This is truly unfortunate...

-John

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:14 am

Wow. What is it with British suppliers bowing out? BOIC, Noel Howard and now Richard Swales.

I would imagine that the new IndyGear page will be more of a museum than anything else.

Truly sad.

Pyroxene

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:18 am

First Noel, then HJ! I'm gonna die if we get the same news from Peter at Wested. I feel like I'm getting old. It's funny this morning I was driving to work and this thought crossed my mind...
"One day I'm gonna be so old that none of the original makers are gonna be around (with Wested in mind mainly), and none of us are gonna be able to get THE jacket and I'm gonna be cherishing the ones I have but won't be able to wear them because they will be too old and fragile."

Spaniard · Post by **Spaniard** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:33 am

I need money to buy tomorrow the DM and Wested!!!!

Bad news, I wanted to buy a new HJ in a couple of years
Who will produce the hats for the new film?

We must wait, Regards

Gerrit · Post by **Gerrit** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:21 am

Indeed, bad news.

I will be visiting London next month and wanted to visit Mr. Swales at Herbert Johnson.

Is the shop still open or is it already closed?

I have to go to Wested in Swanley before it is to late.

cliffhanger · Post by **cliffhanger** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:55 am

JohnNdy wrote:Ahhh! And just yesterday I sent my email enquiry to start the purchase process! Does this mean I won't be able to get my hat! It has taken enough time for me to finally decide to purchase one, and now this. This is truly unfortunate...

-John

Me too! AAAHAHHAHAH!!!!! I may just call and see now.

Peace,
Cliff

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:08 am

This is very sad!

I guess the ol' poet for me as the culmination of an indy Hat won't be that anymore--even if they still make the Poet; it won't be the Swales Poet.

Tis a shame; but if we look hard enough we might find a bright side.

Fisk; maybe now Akubra will get the contract for Indy 4!

Maybe the new Poet, made by whoever takes Swales place, will ALWAYS be true to Indy, no mods required, when you ask for it.

Maybe all the Raiders blocks will go up on auction, and we can pitch in and buy them for Fedora so that we can all enjoy professionally blocked hats for years to come...

See it's sad, but there may be some good things...maybe.

REgards,

A very sad Farnham

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:54 am

Fisk; maybe now Akubra will get the contract for Indy 4!

Maybe our April Fools prank wasn't a prank after all!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:23 am

Who will produce the hats for the new film?

Hopefully not HJ. They've been doing a generally poor job on getting these right over the years so why would we want them to do the film?

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:52 am

What if....what if Indy isn't going to sport a fedora in the new film

RonC · Post by **RonC** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:01 pm

Farnham: Heresy, I say...heresy!!!!"

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:46 pm

next film we could see Ford sporting a Baron hat

END OF LINE.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:15 pm

Well, I had word a couple of months ago that Paramount was looking at samples from another vendor. Barons was not the one mentioned., though. Regards. Michaelson

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:41 pm

I'm rooting for Optimo

END OF LINE.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:50 pm

Okay, it's official: I'm NEVER getting rid of my fedora. Maybe I'll construct a hermetically-sealed Plexiglass case with triple locks on it. My Swales-crafted 'Poet' will become like the Mona Lisa- no flash photography, and nobody may get closer than ten feet from it.

-Dale

P.S.- This truly is a sad month for Indiana Jones collectors and historians alike. Today I raise a glass to Herbert Johnson, and Thursday one to M.B.A. Godspeed, fair gentlemen. You will be dearly missed.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:34 pm

It wasn't them either, Matt. Regards. Michaelson

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:47 pm

(Please don't be Stetson.)

Could it be Tom Hanks favourte hatter?

END OF LINE.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:51 pm

Sorry, I can't say anymore that I already have (probably said to much as it is, but it ain't Stetson!

) Regards. Michaelson

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:01 pm

why not stetson? i have a vintage 1945 stetson that is great!
if they could get an old stetson i am sure it would be fine.
The hats stetson makes today is of not anywhere of
equal quality.
mola

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:04 pm

They have to make dozens of hats to cover all principals, as well as stunt personnel. Stetson hasn't made that type quality hat since the 1950's, and it's to bad too. Stetson isn't the company it was in the 1940's, and has been happy to produce so-so hats for decades. Regards. Michaelson

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:07 pm

Paramount no longer owns the rights to the Indy films, right? Wouldn't it be Dreamworks, more than likely?

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:34 pm

Not necessarily. Paramount still has rights, but to what extent is not clear. Regards. Michaelson

Post by **Mike** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:58 pm

Well, we know for sure they have after market distribution rights still, otherwise, I'm sure the DVDs would be under another company's logo. I believe they no longer hold theatrical rights to the original trilogy, but probably have a first refusal for any sequels written into their contract. Just my guess.

On a side tangent, Paramount releasing the DVDs is a little worrisome to me. I just purchased Regarding Henry and all it is is the movie, not even any trailers! If you're into extras on DVDs, paramount release movies aren't usually what you're looking for. I have hope that Lucas and Speilberg will give us what we want with extras, and sincerely hope that the extras aren't just retreads of past-viewed behind the scenes footage. I'm sure if Paramount had their way, all we would get are the individual titles. I think they're missing the boat on the potential the DVD market has to offer.

OK, off my soapbox... sorry.

Mike

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:07 pm

I agree Paramount is somewhat.... lacking with a lot of their DVDs.... but their Star Trek "director/special editions" are very nice. They've only done it so far with the first 4, but again, it's AFTER they released them basically bare bones. I hope Indy will fare as well or better than the ST SE's

Post by **Mike** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:12 pm

Which is why I'm taking my time with the ST DVDs. I only have the first two so far. They also did the same with the Jack Ryan series. But I felt even those Special Editions lacked a bit. Just a documentary and trailer each.

Sorry to get this so off topic. Maybe its just my way of trying to forget that another vendor is going the way of the Dodo.

Mike

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:17 pm

Mike, go read the dvd section at The Indy Experience You have absolutely NOTHING to worry about with the Indy DVDs

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:19 pm

At least the company that produced the original socks for Indy is still around.

END OF LINE.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:21 pm

Wellll, rumor has it that.....

Regards. Michaelson

cliffhanger · Post by **cliffhanger** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:51 pm

Mike wrote: Sorry to get this so off topic. Maybe its just my way of trying to forget that another vendor is going the way of the Dodo.

Mike

Whoa, Mike, HJ is STILL producing, right? Quality will most surely be REALLY hit or miss, but from what MacGyver said in the original post, only Swales is retiring. Please calm my fears...quality or not, I am still getting an HJ.

Peace,
Cliffhanger

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:16 pm

I agree with Indiana Texas-girl, I do start to feel old when these companies flop. And I'm just a high schooler. Pardon the language on such a solemn occasion but ######!! I wanted to buy an HJ in a couple of years. Why is it that none (and I mean none) of these British companies can get good managing. I suppose as an American I can't go around insulting the management in other countries, what with Enron and World Com, but ######, it's so frustrating.

-IJ

cliffhanger · Post by **cliffhanger** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:28 pm

Umm, I think HJ has just lost Swaine Adeney, the company who owns them. HJ, probably not at the moment, will still make hats. If I am WAY off, then I apologize, and someone correct me.

Peace,
Cliffhanger

P.S. As a side note, does anyone (HJ owners in specific) know if Guitard is still working for HJ?

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:01 pm

Just remember what happened to the quality of Stetson when they were bought out....

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:42 am

Well one of the reasons of "bad managing" as you call it, is not (only) the managing itself, but also the extreme high wage costs of the workers in the U.K. That was also why BMW had to drop Rover (they only kept the Mini line). Now, if the staff already costs a lot of money, there's not much left for the management and commercials, unless you are doing very well anyway.

Also: HJ could have done wonderfull, if they had constantly improved their quality, customer service and connections to the movie industry ect. which they just didn't care about at all. But being the hatter of her Majesty just ain't enough nowadays.

Look at Peter: he sells 30 of his Indy jackets a week! Now why is that?
-Surely not because you have to wait up to three month for a jacket that has been cut with "kiddies scissors" and put together in a crappy way. He even gives us several leathers to chose from. Imagine Mr. Swales would give us the same customer service and several felt qualities and liners to chose from. Oh, I forgot: the hatter of her Majesty doesn't need such stupid bunch of customer as we are.

Sorry for drifting off here, but in my opinion, with that service and quality hit or miss that HJ has shown during the last years, I think they deserved it. Maybe a loss for Indy collectors, but that's about it.

Regards,

Marc

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:04 am

Marc wrote: But being the hatter of her Majesty just ain't enough nowadays.

Yeah I guess not too many women want to fashion their style after a 70+ year old lady.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:32 am

Michaelson wrote:Sorry, I can't say anymore that I already have (probably said to much as it is, but it ain't Stetson! ) Regards. Michaelson

Proof there is a God...

Birth of a child, the love my wife has for me, Beer and Whiskey, Rainbows and sunsets... and now this.

Mike wrote:I think they're missing the boat on the potential the DVD market has to offer.

I just want my widescreen and CD quality sound... any extras is just gravy!

Indiana Texas-girl wrote: Yeah I guess not too many women want to fashion their style after a 70+ year old lady.

But after a 63 year old man… that’s another story!

Whipcrack · Post by **Whipcrack** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:42 pm

I am pulling for Optimo too. I love their Pecan lid and they are great guys. Optimo did a fine job with all the hats for “Road to Perdition” except for the Gary White’s Hanks hats. I wanted to stop in Buffalo to see Gary White on my vacation to Niagara Falls last month. However, I had a van full of tired kids and didn’t feel like looking for Broadway in Buffalo at 4:00 p.m., my loss.

My prediction is who ever makes the Indy IV hats business will explode.

Michaelson got me started by selling me one of his Peters Brother hats. With the Optimo I really will not need another Indy fedora for a long time. However …..

Thanks
Bill Walton

JohnNdy · Post by **JohnNdy** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 7:28 pm

Cliffhanger, did you ever recieve a response from HJ in regards to your email? I know I certainly have not. You also mentioned that you were going to give them a call - are you able to order over the phone? I really want an HJ and fear that I may have missed the boat completely...

-John

cliffhanger · Post by **cliffhanger** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 7:44 pm

I also REALLY want a HJ. I haven't gotten anything back, and this post explains why, but still....

I haven't called yet. I was just going along with Spaniard's method: email first, then a follow-up call to Swales (or now Guitard I guess). I may still call Friday (if I pick up a calling card tomorrow), early in the morning before work and see what they say. My fear is that with Swaine Adeney gone, the number might be invalid.

Buddy, the only thing WE can do is cross our fingers and pray!

Like you, just when I am ready to order, things go screwy and now I am totally lost on what is happening. I might just send them a third email.

Peace,
Cliffhanger

Post by **Mike** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:39 pm

cliffhanger wrote:Like you, just when I am ready to order, things go screwy and now I am totally lost on what is happening.

Well, that settles it then, you're no longer allowed to order any more gear.

I would think that the shop is still there, so the number should still be valid. I would also imagine that they will still be selling the poet hat, but maybe just not with the customizations we're used to. If you or someone else could place a call to them, I think that may clear things up a bit. I'm curious to know as well. After Spaniard's post, I was contemplating another myself.

Mike

cliffhanger · Post by **cliffhanger** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:55 pm

Mike wrote:If you or someone else could place a call to them, I think that may clear things up a bit. I'm curious to know as well. After Spaniard's post, I was contemplating another myself.

Mike

That was probably my main reason to get a McAlpine. His transaction went so well and his hat looked great (IMO) that I thought maybe HJ was on an upswing with their customer service and all.

I also figure the number is still good, as business shakeups take longer than a few days. I still want an email though, but calling them may be my best bet. I'll keep everyone posted (if I get through).

Peace,
Cliffhanger

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:57 pm

Maybe Swales figured since he was on his way out, he would make his Last hat his legacy of sorts. If that was the case, Lucky Spaniard!

Hey what are the odds that Swales will get into Indygear in his retirement? Anyone know the fellow?

cliffhanger · Post by **cliffhanger** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:01 pm

Not very likely. He has a reputation for just plain not "getting" us here at COW. The usual tone from him is the oh-no-not-another-Indy-hat, but probably as of late (i.e Spaniard) he has been cheerier.

Folks that have met him in person say he is quite affable. Being in the hat business for that long and being part of the company that is the Hatter to the Royal Family may do that to a fellow.

Peace,
Cliff

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:21 pm

To get back to the non-main topic of this post, Paramount has rights to distribute Indiana Jones forever (at least the originals). I would assume that they have all sequel rights as well or we wouldn't have heard about the initial Paramount money meetings for Indy 4. The original deal for Indiana Jones that Lucas laid out for the studios was so shrewd and so favored the film makers, that no studio wanted to make the deal. I would assume that the distribution and sequel rights were dangled as a carrot to the studio to help make the deal. No studio wanted to make the same mistake that 20th Century Fox made with Star Wars (giving the rights away to Lucas). Cheers

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:42 pm

If Herbert Johnson remains in business (even without Swales) and Indyfans want a fedora, but HJ won't play ball in terms of the Indy modifications, you could always buy a stock Poet in Sable and just send it to Joe Jr. or one of our other U.S. hat guys for the complete treatment. That's exactly what I'd do if I ever need another fedora.

-Dale

cliffhanger · Post by **cliffhanger** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:03 pm

:idea: Now there's an idea...thanks Dale.

Peace,
Cliff

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:15 pm

You're welcome! I hope that I never need to buy another fedora for the rest of my life, but if that day comes, I will do exactly as I suggested above. It makes perfect sense.

Henry Jones Sr. · Post by **Henry Jones Sr.** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:27 am

Pyroxene wrote:Wow. What is it with British suppliers bowing out? BOIC, Noel Howard and now Richard Swales.

I would imagine that the new IndyGear page will be more of a museum than anything else.

Truly sad.

Pyroxene

Well, to paraphrase a somewhat familiar quote, all of their stuff definitely "belongs in a museum", as fine examples (in their respective heydays) of their respective crafts. Unfortunately, it also belongs in all of our collections, too. Unfortunately, that shan't be the case.

Another glass being raised on high here....

Regards,

Henry Jones, Sr.

Henry Jones Sr. · Post by **Henry Jones Sr.** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:28 am

Minnesota_Jones wrote:I agree Paramount is somewhat.... lacking with a lot of their DVDs.... but their Star Trek "director/special editions" are very nice. They've only done it so far with the first 4, but again, it's AFTER they released them basically bare bones. I hope Indy will fare as well or better than the ST SE's

Hear, hear! to all of the above!

Regards,

Henry Jones, Sr.

Sad news to report, re: Herbert Johnson

Sad news to report, re: Herbert Johnson

Baron

hmmm

..

hat