Changing the ribbon; need some dimensions...

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:36 pm

Hello everyone!

I now have a Todd's ribbon, thanks to a generous COW mwmber, to replace the weird bow on my Christie's.

I found two methods of creating the bow (one piece and two piece) and I am reasonablly confident to do this work, perhaps over the winter (maybe sooner) and I can't seem to find the dimensions of the bow anywhere!

I know in the two-piece method, the bow piece is "about 12 inches" but that is not much help. What I would like to have is that the bow is X long end to end; the 'knot' is Y high etc.

I could try to fake it based on screen shots, but a real number to work from would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance to everyone!

PS if you were doing a re-bow on your hat, would you do the two piece method, or one piece method?

Post by **Dalexs** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:45 pm

I'll say it first (I'm all for shameless self promotion!!!) because if I don't someone else will!

http://dalexs.whitvani.net/hat/hatpage.html

The one piece will use more material then the 2 piece.
(Is the ribbon long enough to do this?) I've heard to the contrary.

Also, unless you have really lightweight ribbon, I think the 1 piece makes the bow too bulky. (Note that I have not handled Todds ribbon.)

About 5 inches is usually right for the bow.

Dalexs

serrecuir · Post by **serrecuir** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:51 pm

Dalexs, I'm all for self-promotion, or in this case, your promotion.

Your method has proven very effective. I've used your tutorial to replace the ribbon on three of my hats, and all using Todd's ribbon. The two-piece method (well, actually 3 pieces with the bow knot) is the best approach using Todd's ribbon. I ended up with a 2-3" piece left over when I finished (for my size 57 hats). Here's a pic of the results.

Kind regards,
Craig

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:41 pm

I vote Two Face.. err Piece, I belive in Harvey.. ahh I'm all mixed up tonight!

Randy

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:26 am

Dalexs wrote:I'll say it first (I'm all for shameless self promotion!!!) because if I don't someone else will!
http://dalexs.whitvani.net/hat/hatpage.html

The one piece will use more material then the 2 piece.
(Is the ribbon long enough to do this?) I've heard to the contrary.

Also, unless you have really lightweight ribbon, I think the 1 piece makes the bow too bulky. (Note that I have not handled Todds ribbon.)

About 5 inches is usually right for the bow.

Dalexs

Thanks, Dalexs. I actually have that saved for reference when I begin. I noticed a lack of any significan dimensions, so I asked the question...

I also think the 2-piece method will be better, giving a flatter bow profile, like the Christie's has now. Maybe I can only replace the bow, and not have to remove the entire ribbon- the Christie's color a nd width seem to be just about perfect- it's just that goofy bow they make that drives me nuts...

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:49 am

serrecuir,
Many of us who frequent this site make a habit of taking time to compliment a beautiful hat when we see it (myself included)... but we'll often forget to "break-down" the compliment into it's separate elements...
So, allow me to be VERY specific here, because I mean this in all sincerity:

The bow you put on that ribbon IS gorgeous! I'm sure that one makes Dalexs proud...

I got to ask, though... ('cause I'm not a guy who can instantly identify the maker of a hat just by looking at it - yet)
So, who made that handsome lid of yours?
Mitch

Post by **Dalexs** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:03 pm

J!m wrote: Thanks, Dalexs. I actually have that saved for reference when I begin. I noticed a lack of any significan dimensions, so I asked the question...

That was actually on purpose. The tutorial does mention that you need about 12 inches of material to do the job.

I think the bow size itself is subjective. It depends on the size of the hat, what kind of oval shape it has.
Believe it or not, a difference of less then 1/2" is noticable in the bow size.

I think, based on my hat size (60cm) I usually make them just about 5" finished.

Using screen shots, you should be able to get pretty close to a proper ratio.

Dalexs

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:58 pm

OK I'll try that.

Mine is a 57, so a bit more real estate to play with...

serrecuir · Post by **serrecuir** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:16 pm

Mitch LaRue wrote:serrecuir,
Many of us who frequent this site make a habit of taking time to compliment a beautiful hat when we see it (myself included)... but we'll often forget to "break-down" the compliment into it's separate elements...
So, allow me to be VERY specific here, because I mean this in all sincerity:

The bow you put on that ribbon IS gorgeous! I'm sure that one makes Dalexs proud...

I got to ask, though... ('cause I'm not a guy who can instantly identify the maker of a hat just by looking at it - yet)
So, who made that handsome lid of yours?
Mitch

Mitch,

Thank you for such a fine compliment! It's certainly greatly appreciated.

I'm getting pretty comfortable with these ribbon replacements. I'm going to do another one this week for my Christy's fedora that I just received. Dalexs' tutorial has been very effective, although I did my first ribbon replacement with help from my Peter Bros' fedora - I used their ribbon as my template, and copied the length and design. I've read many a post from hatters here on COW, like Marc and Steve, to see how they get that gorgeous "flying-V" that is so "Raiders."

To answer your question, the hat is a Herbert Johnson Poet with the Streets of Cairo bash. I love the hat - it's got a great floppy feel (without being too loose) and a tall stovepipe crown. The only thing I need to work on is getting the back of the brim to swoop up.

To help answer Jim's first post here, Todd's ribbon comes in approx. 36" lengths. Here are the (approximate) lengths for making my bows with his ribbon:

Ribbon - 20"
Bow - 11"
Bow knot - 3"
(Leftover - 2")

Hope this helps!!

Kind regards,
Craig

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:47 pm

VERY helpful, thanks!

I am going to tackle this here at some point, and I'm collecting the data now...

Any other pointers not covered in Dalexs' tutorial?

Mark Brody · Post by **Mark Brody** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:45 pm

Dalexs; tutorial is great, but I still say it should be one piece. I just fold the ribbon back on itself 3 times before I wrap it around that hat. Otherwise, I pretty much follow the tutorial.

serrecuir · Post by **serrecuir** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:46 pm

J!m wrote:VERY helpful, thanks!

I am going to tackle this here at some point, and I'm collecting the data now...

Any other pointers not covered in Dalexs' tutorial?

Jim,

The rest of the tutorial is pretty straight forward. The only other word of advice I have is the importance of the pinch and holding stitch in the center of the bow. Make sure you have that shaped as you like as this is the key to the overall shape of the bow. The corner stitches help to accentuate that look, but it starts with the center pinch.

Kind regards,
Craig

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:43 am

Good info... Keep it coming!

It wasn't until my last scan through the pictures that I really understood what was going on with the bow.

I'm fairly certain the Christie's and others are a two-piece design; I am also looking at replacing ONLY the bow, as the Christie's ribbon has a nice color.

Once I get it apart and determine the ribbon length, I will know what to do next...

Changing the ribbon; need some dimensions...

Should the hat bow be 1 or 2 pieces?

Changing the ribbon; need some dimensions...