Is Alphared6's jacket the same as the archive jacket?

CM · Post by CM » Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:11 am

You can look at it in the post titled "The last Indy jacket I'll ever own."

What do people think?

Given to him by Harrison Ford

Produced 17 to 20 years ago

Double stitched shoulders (only the archive jacket has this)

High pocket placement (totally unlike any USW jackets people compare it to)

Snaps (albeit covered ones)

Mottled leather - like the archive jacket

I don't think there is any evidence it's a Coopers (again they didn't have double shoulder stitching). And the pockets are totally unlike a Wested.

Alphared says he got it before LC the movie came out so how come it has snaps? Again this suggests it is a companion to the archive jacket.

Is it a Flightsuits Keppler jacket?

What do people think?

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:58 am

They look very similar, but I'm not an expert...

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:04 pm

My Cooper had both the double stitched shoulders and the 'covered' snaps on the storm flap.

CM · Post by CM » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:25 pm

Are there any photos of Coopers with that kind of stitching? That is interesting.

CM · Post by CM » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:45 pm

CM wrote:Drat! You've spoilt the mystery! Are there any photos of Coopers with that kind of stitching,etc? That is interesting.

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:12 am

Okay ... what is the archive jacket?

CM · Post by CM » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:15 am

alphared6 wrote:Okay ... what is the archive jacket?

As I understand it...

It's a jacket prersumably made in the late 1980's for Lee Keppler (a fan) by the company Flightsuits (now G&B) which was used as the basis for the LC jacket. Apparently this archive jacket was seen as the best design by Ford and various costumers, including the recent CS film costumer.

The archive jacket is a fan jacket and the irony is that although Lucas has a series of jackets in his film production archive - including an original ROTLA jacket - it is the fan jacket that has been responsible for the design of the last two movie jackets. Apparently Ford prefers the look.

There is a question, however. Michaelson hinted once that there are two possibilities as to the origin of the archive jacket. There are arguments which suggest it was actually a Cooper.

That's why I was excited by your jacket. You see, Lee Keppler used to sell these fan jackets before Wested got in on the game.

Any errors in this, I'm sure will be pointed out by others.

The archive jacket has snaps on the wind guard and double stitching on the shoudler. None of the film jackets had that stitching until CS.

Clear as mud?

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:26 am

Any pictures of this "archive" jacket and why is Lucas in possession of a Lee Keppler jacket?

Doug C

CM · Post by CM » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:48 am

Doug C wrote:Any pictures of this "archive" jacket and why is Lucas in possession of a Lee Keppler jacket?

Doug C

Yep there's stuff about this jacket all over COW. Do a quick search.

I think Lucas had 2 at one point. It'll all be in the write up soon.

This archive jacket was given to Peter and Tony Nowak to copy when they came about making their CS jacket. As we know Peter's bid was unsuccessful.

There's a recent thread started by me with a direct question to Lee Keppler. Here he explained his side of the jacket story. _ has discussed this jacket in frequent threads.

Cheers - CM

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:47 am

CM wrote:Are there any photos of Coopers with that kind of stitching? That is interesting.

I'll find the pics of mine later today...

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:54 am

The story goes that Lucas purchased two of the Keppler jackets from Lee through his Adventure Outpost company back in 1988, and then approached Lee to see if he would be willing to supply jackets for LC. Lee could not help them as the order was to large, and the job went to Wested.

One jacket stayed in the Skywalker ranch collection. The other.....it's somewhere else, needless to say, and the individual who has it denies its existance, even though on a couple of occasions it has slipped to a couple of members of the staff they had it in the 'vault'.

That said, that's supposedly how Lucasfilm ended up with a Keppler FS (G&B) jacket.

Regards! Michaelson

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:08 pm

Hummmm, a question wrapped in a mystery hidden within an enigma.

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:55 pm

Hidden snaps...cool. I always thought the LC jacket had hidden snaps until KT pointed out that they weren't hidden. Anyways I think its a cool feature.

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:45 am

Ok, here's a picture of the back, you can see the double stitched shoulders.
This is my Cooper made-Disney World Indy Jacket, circa 1993-94.

[img][img]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/ ... 0_1993.jpg[/img][/img]

Here's the front, you can see the lining and other construction is identical to the Ford gift jacket.

[img][img]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/ ... 0_1991.jpg[/img]

This jacket is my all-time favorite. Sadly I outgrew it![/img]

Post by **Holt** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:21 am

yep that looks pretty much like Al's jacket.

bests
Holt

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:35 pm

The similarities are striking! No manufacturers label in mine. What does the little tag at the loop say? That's not in mine either.

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:16 pm

alphared6 wrote:The similarities are striking! No manufacturers label in mine. What does the little tag at the loop say? That's not in mine either.

Mine said "Made In Korea." But it was an earlier jacket from 1989.

Jack

CM · Post by CM » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:42 pm

Sure likes like the same jacekt. Thanks for posting.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:11 pm

Hey Citron, you might have mentioned already, but as that detail is not in your pictures, does it have the covered snaps?

Regards, Geert

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:17 pm

So perhaps the LCL Cooper was actually made from copying a Keppler jacket.. Did Lee's early jackets have the backward straps like this jacket or leather facings behind the zips or lack of a bottom seam?

Doug C

CM · Post by CM » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:54 pm

Doug C wrote:So perhaps the LCL Cooper was actually made from copying a Keppler jacket.. Did Lee's early jackets have the backward straps like this jacket or leather facings behind the zips or lack of a bottom seam?

Doug C

Maybe the archive jacket was a Cooper. Some think this is the case apparently.

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:53 pm

gwyddion wrote:Hey Citron, you might have mentioned already, but as that detail is not in your pictures, does it have the covered snaps?

Regards, Geert

yep, coverered up snaps.

...and the little tag says 'made in Korea' too. I wonder if those kids in the sweatshop sewing these things had any idea...?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:00 pm

One characteristic of the new USW's is that the back panel seams do not meet the sleeve seams, about 1 inch on both sides. I was just wondering if the older Coopers were like that too?

Ron, how is the new USW VIP compared to the old IJ/Disney jacket? Any similiar characteristics in fit, etc.? I noticed your old jacket was cow. The new USW apparently are not made with hidden snaps, or otherwise, nor cotton lining any more.

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:07 pm

Texan Scott wrote:One characteristic of the new USW's is that the back panel seams do not meet the sleeve seams, about 1 inch on both sides. I was just wondering if the older Coopers were like that too?

Ron, how is the new USW VIP compared to the old IJ/Disney jacket? Any similiar characteristics in fit, etc.? I noticed your old jacket was cow. The new USW apparently are not made with hidden snaps, or otherwise, nor cotton lining any more.

The fit is the same, if I remember right- the reason I sold the old one was that I had grown vertically in my early 20's, and it ended up being too short in the sleeves. I didn't (unfortunately) pay much attention to the pleats, etc when I had it. (I sold it to another member here, maybe he'll chime in with opinions or new pics of it)
One thing I do remember is that the leather was AWESOME. it was moo cow that distressed naturally very beautifully.
My new Wings VIP is also moo cow, but cut from the belly, as I understand it. It feels a lot thinner, and 100 times softer, almost buttery feeling to the touch. The collars seem to be the same, sleeves seem the same, also no bottom seam.
The lining was a soft cotton/poly blend (I think). I'm going to give my VIP's lining a chance when I start wearing it this Fall, but as of now, I don't like it. It feels like plastic. Rough, textured, thick nylon. If I can find a tailor to change the lining (if i decide to), I'm going to have them add a row of stitching to the shoulder seam, and reverse the straps so they pull to the rear.

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:40 pm

Texan Scott wrote:One characteristic of the new USW's is that the back panel seams do not meet the sleeve seams, about 1 inch on both sides.

I just got a new USW Goat hide this week and the horizontal back seam lines up perfectly with the sleeve seams.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:48 pm

Here it is:

http://uswings.com/aviatn.asp

just click on the lower left photo, and you'll see it.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:19 pm

I just got a new USW Goat hide this week and the horizontal back seam lines up perfectly with the sleeve seams.

No, they mean the back panel does not meet the sleave seam in the vertical sense.... ie where the arm is sewed to the jacket.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:18 pm

I can always spot a USW from that perspective...at least a new one.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:20 pm

Yep, it is one of their defining characteristics... plus, it prevents the panel from opening up all the time.

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:01 pm

coronado3 wrote:
I just got a new USW Goat hide this week and the horizontal back seam lines up perfectly with the sleeve seams.
No, they mean the back panel does not meet the sleave seam in the vertical sense.... ie where the arm is sewed to the jacket.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... now I see.