Temple jacket proto for US Wings.

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:40 am

Holt, yes however if you look at your prototype even tho it goes all the way to the edge the vertical line of the backpanel along the sides has an arc to it, they are not straight lines so not really a V, I think that might prevent the flare out and allow going all the way to the edge.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:43 am

no its not a total V backpannel...it is sligthly V tappered..slightly..

thats why I said it is more of an V then a [ ]

and read the rest of my post about the flaring out...

I updated it..

bests
Holt

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:17 am

HDRnR, the prototype jacket had the one inch indentions typical of all US Wings jackets but it was altered away by bringing the sleeves closer to the panel. The pleats on these jackets are almost always open, however just like Holt had mentioned only the really deeply made ones flare out like crazy, and only Wested does 'em like that (not all of their jackets tho). Ford's jackets certainly have open action pleats, just watch closely and you see it constantly, the thing is they are shallow pleats and look fine that way. That opened effect can be minimized with elastic but the deep pleats will still look odd. So, yea what Holt said..

Doug C

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:48 am

Thanks for clearing that up guys, I'm really looking forward to this ToD jacket, even more so now.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:59 am

DougC, I meant to ask you about the alterations. I know you had the sleeves tapered, but what all did you have altered to the torso. Holt believes (and I agree) that the ToD jacket lies somewhere between the Raiders cut and the LC cut.

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:31 pm

Basically the torso and arms were slimmed down or narrowed a bit. If you look at the pitures of me wearing it, it was a bit too much for my build, but oh well.. but this necessitated the sleeve seems to be raised and that in turn eliminated the gap on the sides of the back panel. The straps were reconfigured and raised too. New skinny silver zipper (euro configuration), new lining.

Doug C

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:23 pm

Holt, the jacket is looking good so far and Agent5 nice website link, I'm amazed at the amount of detail

Is there anyway this could be ready by Christmas? Also, will this be a Cow only jacket?

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:48 pm

and Agent5 nice website link

Thanks. It was done over a year ago and since then much more has come to light on that jacket. I'm glad some here are taking up the mantle to get this project off the ground. The more the better. I like choices.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:38 pm

Tennessee Smith wrote:Holt, the jacket is looking good so far and Agent5 nice website link, I'm amazed at the amount of detail

Is there anyway this could be ready by Christmas? Also, will this be a Cow only jacket?

Holt and I are working as hard as we can (especially Holt-he's a jacket workhorse!

) but there are so many variables, I don't think there can be a set time schedule. We're trying as hard as we can to nail down the specs and then everything goes off to the Sgt.

Again, in his original email, Hack said he would make 100 limited edition jackets for COW members only. If there is a good response to these, however, I imagine they could go into regular production if the demand was there.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:43 pm

This sounds great!!! Thanks Crismans!!!

One more question... Since the TOD is notably longer than the Raiders version, will this fall into the standard Tall length and if it's offered in a Tall how much longer will it be than the reg Tall?

WeeMadHamish · Post by **WeeMadHamish** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:32 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:look here.

see the red lines.thats were the new shoulder seam should be.

also the red dots are the armholes

bests
Holt

No offense to your model, Holt, but he's a bit of a hunchback.

Sorry to stick on this, but you want it to look right, correct? Your sketch doesn't account for the fact that the torso tapers toward the shoulder, and that the cut of clothing reflects that (or else it wouldn't fit correctly.) The repositioning of the seam shouldn't be so parallel. Rather, it should follow the lines of the trapezius, radiating from the shoulder hole at an almost square angle. Here, I pulled this screencap off of theraider.net:

It's not a great image, but you can see the shoulder seam fairly clearly. In the overlay, the red line follows the actual curve of his shoulder (because as pointed out, the jacket is worn pretty far off of his shoulders because he lost weight and they replaced the liner with a thinner fabric.) The green line traces the seam as seen. The blue line is about where the seam appears on Raiders models of the jacket, ie on top of the ridge of the trapezius. As you can see, the movement is not proportional... the end of the seam at the collar has moved farther back, while the end at the sleeve seam has moved less. This is because of the tapered shape of the torso-shoulder construction.

Of course, this is all just my opinion, as I am not a professional pattern cutter, but this is what I see and what I believe according to my design and construction aesthetics.

Interestingly, this seems like the only time that the jacket isn't falling off of his back; the seam sits a bit higher on his shoulders.

golpeo_rapidamente · Post by **golpeo_rapidamente** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:57 am

Great work

Cant wait til we see a working model

JC1972 · Post by **JC1972** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:19 pm

Tennessee Smith wrote:This sounds great!!! Thanks Crismans!!!

One more question... Since the TOD is notably longer than the Raiders version, will this fall into the standard Tall length and if it's offered in a Tall how much longer will it be than the reg Tall?

I was wondering this too as I may need a tall being 6'3"

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:36 pm

I think the ''longer'' jacket was a bit made up.

when I watch Temple I dont see it exacly so much longer then the raiders jacket.

everybody says that is it longer..but they allways refer to the elephant scene..yeah off course it looks longer when Indy sits on an elephant,any jacket would

see here..
see where the jacket ends a little under his belt..now either it was a shorter jacket or Indy wore his pants on his hips...you decide.

bests
Holt

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:26 pm

Holt wrote:

I think the ''longer'' jacket was a bit made up.

OMG!! I could NOT agree more! It's never looked longer to me either. I think the whole idea of a longer length was Peter's idea when he was asked to make a TofD jacket for someone long ago. Also, I think that Peter's Raider jackets in the early days were a bit too short in the waist (my early ones were for sure) and therefore it was a natural thing to add an inch for a TofD. I could be wrong but that's my guess. Regardless, when assessing the jackets length look at where the sleeve ends in comparison to where the body ends - there not a great bit of difference between the first three movies. Actually I think if anything, the TofD looked slightly shorter than raiders (both in sleeves and waist).

Doug C

CM · Post by CM » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:48 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:I think the ''longer'' jacket was a bit made up.

when I watch Temple I dont see it exacly so much longer then the raiders jacket.

everybody says that is it longer..but they allways refer to the elephant scene..yeah off course it looks longer when Indy sits on an elephant,any jacket would

see here..
see where the jacket ends a little under his belt..now either it was a shorter jacket or Indy wore his pants on his hips...you decide.

bests
Holt

We never knew for certain if the jacket was longer - and I certainly never accepted this as fact. That was just Peter's claim when he used to tell us that he made the jacket. He'd say it was the same as the Raiders jacket only 1 inch longer.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:22 pm

Well, since _ just did the write up for the TOD jacket does he have specs on the different types used? He said Harrison had lost between 8-12 lbs by the time filming had began so the Cooper jacket was too large for him so they altered the lining to adjust to his "new" size for some of the shots (this could account for the Longer look, albeit just that it's too big for him). From the writing it said numerous jackets were used, are you using an amalgamation of all types or selecting one specific look for this jacket?

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:49 pm

well IMO people can say what ever they want about it..

in my eyes this is NOT a long jacket.

I have seen long jackets and this jacket above is super short when compared to a long

bests
Holt

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:13 pm

The shorter pockets will also create an illustion of a longer jacket since it makes the body look longer.

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:14 am

For what it's worth, I think the only difference in length is the back. It looks a bit longer on the Tod jacket, and a little shorter on the Raiders jacket. I think the front looks the same length on both jackets.

Weston

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:50 am

I can agree with all that Weston just said! While it may not be considered a long jacket it shouldn't be shorter than a Raiders either. Again - body length is relative to what the sleeves lengths are. Not equal but not far off.

Doug C

Prescott · Post by **Prescott** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:25 am

We know that the smaller pockets in the front make the jacket look longer on Ford. I also believe that a longer yoke down the back also creates the illusion of a longer jacket. You have two features, front and back, that complete the effect.
-P-

Inbanana · Post by **Inbanana** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:08 pm

The only thing I can tell about the length is that is back of the jacket looks like it totally covers the pocket flaps of the pants in most of the scenes where Indy is standing upright, but when he raises his arms to hug Willie (bottom right), you can see the flap poke out from the bottom...

The Raiders jacket on the other hand looks a little bit shorter to me (you can usually see the bottom edge of the flap just under the jacket)... or, like you guys said... its probably just the back length thats mainly different.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:20 pm

I hate it when the back of a jacket is super short. When i sit, it feels like th bottom is across my kidneys!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:56 pm

It also matters where Ford wore his pants in both movies. If he wore them even slightly higher in Raiders than TOD, it will change how we preceive everything.

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:17 pm

Does anyone know if Chris King has that jacket zipped in the shot of the back, that panel doesn't seem quite as wide, but if it was zipped perhaps. Also did Chris ever post his personal measurements or size?

Doug C

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:58 am

I also do not think that TOD jacket was longer.
Perhaps the case is that it is narrower in the chest and this gives it a slimmer appearance that gives the illusion of being longer.

Holt, nice effort, I recommend to study the photos showing the collar a bit more because wings collar is way off.

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:41 am

agent5 wrote:It also matters where Ford wore his pants in both movies. If he wore them even slightly higher in Raiders than TOD, it will change how we preceive everything.

Agreed - and given his level of fitness in ToD it's possible the pants were worn higher than in Raiders. Does that make any sense or was that a stupid thing to say?

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:43 am

Oh, I don't know....no worse than me saying many years ago there HAD to be two buckles on the bag strap.

8-[

Regards! Michaelson

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:50 am

It could very well be that he wore them much higher in tod. In Lc and in CS he wore his pants pretty high too, thus creating an image of a longer body in the jacket.

But when I saw some of the photos of the ford sized CS jackets by Tony Nowak, they didn't appear to be that long in the body. So I also think its the way he wears his pants.

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:40 am

I just wanted to point out that even Short Round's jacket looks long in the above picture of him on the elephant with Indy. So, that's not a good reference pic to make the argument that the TofD jacket was long IMHO. Take a look..

Doug C

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:53 pm

Things are progressing well on the Wings Temple of Doom jacket project. I emailed Sgt. Hack to double check a few things and the price will still be $300 for the jacket. It will be a limited edition of only 100 jackets made.

He says he's been busy gearing up for making the military their jackets, McCain sunglasses, and having the lotteries removing their claims that their jackets were manufactured by Wings but he's excited about making a COW jacket.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:07 pm

so how do we get on the list?

Indy_Mic · Post by **Indy_Mic** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:23 pm

Will any of the 100 be talls / longs?

JC1972 · Post by **JC1972** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:38 pm

Indy_Mic wrote:Will any of the 100 be talls / longs?

I doubt it if its only a 100 made.

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:31 pm

Mark me down...

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:50 pm

Indy_Mic wrote:Will any of the 100 be talls / longs?

I forgot to ask that!

I try not to flood the Sgt. with too many emails so I'll wait a couple of days and ask him.

JC1972 · Post by **JC1972** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:24 am

HDRnR wrote:Mark me down...

Yeah, how would that work? A lot of people can say "put me down for one" but I would think you would have to actually put money down to be in line. No?

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:17 am

lets just whait until we recieve the proto jacket from US Wings.

we will look over the jacket and do a contol check to make sure it has every detail it needs to have before it is made a limit of 100 jacket.

thats all I can say for now.

but we are getting close and we are about to send of the specs to David Hack

bests
Holt

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:56 am

Any new developments ?

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:25 pm

The spec sheet for changes to the prototype jacket is pretty much done, just a tweak here and there. We're waiting to get some buckles that will hopefully do the trick. Then everything is off to Wings.

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:29 pm

Cool, looking forward to it. Has the leather been decided yet ?

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:38 pm

the leather will be lambskin.

regards
Holt

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:02 pm

Since the project is soon to go into production, may as well 'unstickie' this one now.

Regard! Michaelson

Bemo · Post by **Bemo** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:08 pm

As much as I like the idea behind this project, I'm really not interested in a lambskin; but that's just me. If this project takes off, I hope it's eventually offered in goat. But that's just me.

Peace.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:37 pm

just an update.

I dont know how many countless of hours we have used on this project but the spec sheet is ready.

the only part left for now is to whait on the buckles.

the spec sheet and the proto jacket will very soon be sendt of to US Wings.

the leather will either be the vintage Lambskin,It looks new out of the box, but ages rapidly and in the proper places of stress and wear.

or the vintage cowhide.which is a vinner in my opinion.it just has the temple jacket leather look.but might be a tad to thick.just a tad..

and a freind of mine has a wings goat and the leather just has a rubbery and plasticley look and feel to it.maby over a the many years to come and with lots of wear and tear it might look the part?..

bests
Holt

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:46 pm

I'd want the lamb over the cowhide. The cowhide is excellent, but since I already have one...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:17 am

I don't understand. We all here are looking for SA in every incredibly small detail, and then... someone asks for a completely not SA hide as cowhide or goat. People ready to kill their mothers for the right buckle or pocket, are indifferent to SA hide.
I think this is a complete nonsense.

:

CM · Post by CM » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:39 am

Indiana Strones wrote:I don't understand. We all here are looking for SA in every incredibly small detail, and then... someone ask for a completely not SA hide as cowhide or goat. People ready to kill their mothers for the right buckle or pocket, are indifferent to SA hide.
I think this is a complete nonsense. :?:

:rolling:

Yeah, that's ture. I'm one of them. I want the design, but made from a better, stronger hide. The drape, etc doesn't matter to me because the only way to get the identical look to the film one is to get hide from the same sheep and that ain't gonna happen. I actually think that the ToD look can be had pretty easily in goat. Unlike the thin Raiders jacket, the ToD doesn't flop about much. And I would never distress a jacket so I, like some of us here, don't really care to copy absolutely everything about the jacket.

Just my thoughts - cheers CM

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:40 am

The VIP cowhide is awesome and it really should be considered. Its thick but like butter, I think it would give the best of both worlds.

Temple jacket proto for US Wings.

leather choice