Temple jacket proto for US Wings.

[Holt]

Hi.

I have been working along with crismans to get the project started at US Wings.

this jacket here is a modyfied picture of an OLD coopers crismans purchased...when it is finished it will be send to US Wings to copy.


it isnt completly finished but I want to share what we have made so far.

what do you think of it? give me your honest opinion...

I am still busy working on it so I can make changes...

the jacket will be cut in the 80's cut.



the orignal picture of the jacket had.
3 piece sleeves.
huge pockets
closed pleats.
I asume high side vents.
x box
hem stitch.




bests
Holt

[Doug C]

Holt, just a correction.. that is NOT an old coopers jacket as a matter of fact it started off as a pretty recent US Wings jacket.

Are those pictures photoshoped or otherwise just pictures that have been digitally manipulated? The vents look pretty much right, as do the pocket size. Good job so far - bravo!

Doug C

[Holt]

thanks..

coopers...US Wings...tomato tomaeto

this is how it looked like..



bests
Holt

[eazybox]

I love it!

Jack

[Indiana G]

look'n good!

[agent5]

Make sure you pay close attention to the way the collar/collar stand/storm flap is constructed. USWings has the collar stand sticking out at the edges for some reason and the top of the storm flap is too wide off the end of the collar as well.

Looks great so far!

[Holt]

here is the collar,collar stand and the square top storm flap

this is the original collar.no photoshop work here...

the collar is 2.75'' all the way..no tapering collar..




bests
Holt

[Weston]

That looks really good! I'd offer constructive criticism, but I don't have any.

Weston

[crismans]

Holt, just a correction.. that is NOT an old coopers jacket as a matter of fact it started off as a pretty recent US Wings jacket.

Are those pictures photoshoped or otherwise just pictures that have been digitally manipulated? The vents look pretty much right, as do the pocket size. Good job so far - bravo!

Doug C

I have to give thanks to DougC for taking quite a bit off his selling price to help out with the project.

And Holt has really given the project a shot in the arm. It's like jumping off a peddle car onto a rocket sled.

[Cassidy]

That leather is fantastic. Very ToD. What's the vintage?

[Raider S]

It's one of the Chinese made USW's that were on sale a year or so ago. I understand extensive tailoring was done to it by the member here who sold it.

[Holt]

It's one of the Chinese made USW's that were on sale a year or so ago. .

thats right!

[Raider S]

And it's looking great so far Holt!

[Doug C]

No, no, no... you guys, this was not a Chinese made jacket. I had a Chinese made clearance jacket before I bought this one (had a seam down the back, leather wasn't the same texture) but this is a USW, U.S. made example of about 1.5 years a go or so. It looked absolutely new when I bought it. It's made of Antique lambskin that I sprayed darker with a Meltonian product.

Doug C

[Holt]

A5.

about the rotated sleeves..how much was exacly rotaded?

do you know cause whn I look at the screen grabs the sleeve seam looks kinda LC to me...

any input would be great.



and also guys..

the jacket was said to be an 80's cut..and I allways believed it was...but I cant say 100% for sure....can anybody confirm?

bests
Holt

[Doug C]

Both..My opinion from studying the screen caps is that one of the screen used jackets was quite loose while another was more close fitting, '80s fit if you will, (though I really hate that 'made up' term). The fitted one was used in sceens like the very last with the completely wrinkled arms, etc. The looser one is more prominent and seen more throughout the film, draping hugely on Harrison at times. That's just my opinion, but I'd wager there were more than just the two. So with that you may have to try and reproduce the most characteristic features, like a big flat collar, small pockets and the vents. You will notice in most the shots that the shoulders were wide too, to account for Ford's delts but he didn't quite fill them out.

Doug C

[coronado3]

Don't forget that the seam that runs from the collar to the shoulder is too far forward on many of these US Wings jackets. That seam should not be visable from the front when wearing the jacket....

[agent5]

Here is my TOD page.
http://filmjackets.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

PLEASE do not take this as gospel. This is MY take on the jacket by the caps and other info I put together. Some of it is based on the measurements from current and previous Raiders jackets for size comparrison, some were guesses, but all was based on a body type my size. Still, there are enough caps and pics of the jacket from all angles and of all the details to start.

All the info I got is out there and anyone can do it. I'm sure some of these measurements will be challenged, but thats what this place is for. If someone can improve upon my theories then please, I'm all up for getting this all right. I don't mind being proven wrong because all I'm after is the best it can be.

[CM]

Hi.

I have been working along with crismans to get the project started at US Wings.

this jacket here is a modyfied picture of an OLD coopers crismans purchased...when it is finished it will be send to US Wings to copy.


it isnt completly finished but I want to share what we have made so far.

what do you think of it? give me your honest opinion...

I am still busy working on it so I can make changes...

the jacket will be cut in the 80's cut.



the orignal picture of the jacket had.
3 piece sleeves.
huge pockets
closed pleats.
I asume high side vents.
x box
hem stitch.




bests
Holt

Looking good. The pocket flaps need to be a bit deeper. Agent 5's photos sho them almost at half way down the pocket. Also, I think the collar needs to be a bit wider.

[HDRnR]

I love it, especially the collar. I can't stand big collars, SA or not, they flap in your face in a high wind or on a motorcycle. I'd love to see a snap down option like on an a-2 by a manufacturer.

[jacksdad]

outstanding and I love the color, I' so looking forward to getting one of these,great job and thanks for all of your hard work.

[Holt]

[/quote]

Looking good. The pocket flaps need to be a bit deeper. Agent 5's photos sho them almost at half way down the pocket. Also, I think the collar needs to be a bit wider.[/quote]

yes I have the correct flap measuremnets...

bests
Holt

[jacksdad]

any ballpark estimate on when these will be available for sale,just curious.

[Holt]

ohh that we dont know yet...

it could be in 6 weeks or 5 months?...we have no idea...

but the good thing is that it has started

Holt

[Holt]

this is just a proto illustration I made today.this is my first go on the side illustration...

EDIT

bests
Holt

[coronado3]

pull the shoulder seam (from the collar stand to the sleave seam) down further toward the back.

c3

[Kentucky Blues]

I agree, it should be closer to the back of the collar/closer to the yoke.

-KB

[Holt]

that is allready done.

I have loads of screen grabs with lines and specs on them..so in that illustration I made it with the seam tilted a tad at the end of the seam towards the yoke

but I can make a new one so you can see it more..

bests
Holt

[Holt]

here.



Holt

[Kentucky Blues]

Still looks like the top of the line should be a bit further back...

-KB

[Holt]

no,no

the seam is tilted bakwards.

the seam beginns at the same point as a normal shoulder seam should do.
meaning from collar stand to top center sleeve.

but in the ToD it was from collar and tilted away from top center sleeve.

the RED line indicates a normal shoulder seam to top center sleeve...the GREEN is the titlted backwards seam

get it?

[Kentucky Blues]

Hmm... I guess it's just hard to decipher because of the way your drawing is laid out.

-KB

[Doug C]

I'm not trying to complicate things, but I was wondering if anyone else feels that the sleeve seams (running down the back of the arms) connects to where the side body seam is? Look at this picture:




Doug C

[jacksdad]

I forgot how much is the jacket going to cost, and has there been any talk of size. Is it going to be suit size or standard sm,m,lg xl? My vote is hopefully suit size. Just curious.

[Holt]

cost?i dont know...


sizes...I am actually trying to make a size that will be suited for the ToD fit...

its going to be something between regular and a 80's fit...

bests
Holt

[crismans]

I forgot how much is the jacket going to cost, and has there been any talk of size. Is it going to be suit size or standard sm,m,lg xl? My vote is hopefully suit size. Just curious.

Sgt. Hack originally said that the jacket would be $300. Whether that may change because of alterations to the existing patterns or not, I don't know. But I'm sure he'll cut us a good deal.

The original offer was for 100 jackets in various sizes. As Wings usually goes by standard sizes, I would think this jacket would be the same.

Again, I don't know any of these things for sure. I'm just speculating.

[crismans]

cost?i dont know...


sizes...I am actually trying to make a size that will be suited for the ToD fit...

its going to be something between regular and a 80's fit...

bests
Holt

Beat me to it.

[HDRnR]

Is the 80's fit just cut trimmer in the waist section ? And the shoulders and chest normal ? Also hopefully no pre distressing on these...

[JC1972]

I doubt there'll be any longs, hopefully an XL would be okay for me.

[WeeMadHamish]

no,no

the seam is tilted bakwards.

the seam beginns at the same point as a normal shoulder seam should do.
meaning from collar stand to top center sleeve.

but in the ToD it was from collar and tilted away from top center sleeve.

the RED line indicates a normal shoulder seam to top center sleeve...the GREEN is the titlted backwards seam

get it?

I don't know. In the photo that DougC posted the shoulder and yoke seam a little more parallel than you depicted in your sketch. Seems to me that the shoulder seam starts more at the back of the neck at the collar stand, rather than at the side of the neck as we are all used to. The whole seam is further back on the.. err, back. Cutting it at a non-perpendicular angle to the shoulder hole seems like a very odd and non-standard way of constructing a shoulder (I've fiddled a little bit with clothing patterns.) I think you're being a bit fooled by perspective in that photo you traced over, because his shoulder is round and not a flat plane. The seam runs parallel to the slope of his shoulder, rather than angling across it.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I enjoy figure drawing and I pay a lot of attention to the form of the human body, and the way clothing drapes on it.

Just my opinion, but if you just take the regular, top-(or front)-of-the shoulder seam and move it backwards about two inches or so, without messing about with funky angles, you'll be good.

I can doodle what I think the seam arrangement looks like, if you'd like.

EDIT: Aw, heck. I'll just go with DougC's pic.


The blue line approximates where I think the seam for the collar stand sits. The red line is the top slope of his shoulder. The green lines are my best guess for the seam arrangement. To my eyes, the shoulder seam is parallel to Ford's shoulder, whereas your arrangement (in yellow):



would put it at an angle. And since we can see the seam and that it does not follow that particular line, it doesn't seem correct that the seam would be at the weird angle you propose.

But this is just what my eyes see based on the couple of pictures posted to this thread. Take it for what it might be worth to you.

[Doug C]

WMH wrote:

if you just take the regular, top-(or front)-of-the shoulder seam and move it backwards about two inches or so, without messing about with funky angles, you'll be good.

I agree. All that's needed is for the top yolk/shoulder seams to be started further back on the shoulders. No need for an angled seam, that look was mostly Ford wearing it back on his shoulders I suspect. You may however want to consider bringing the bottom of the yolk slightly farther down - looks to me like it's about even with the arm pit areas.

Doug C

[Raider S]

The original offer was for 100 jackets in various sizes. As Wings usually goes by standard sizes, I would think this jacket would be the same.

I certainly hope USW will offer these in their full range of sizes, s,m,l,xl,xxl, as then everyone across the size spectrum would find one they feel good in.

[Holt]

I think they will..

I dont see why not..they do it on their Indy adventure jacket so why make total new sizings for these?

bests
Holt

[agent5]

The photos above are good, but pay close attention to the perspective of the camera. It's lower than his shoulders and we still see the seam close to the top of the shoulder in the pic.

[Holt]

and lets not forget that the half shoulders were very long on that jacket.

the top sleeve seams fall on Fords side shoulders.

Bests
Holt

[Holt]

look here.

see the red lines.thats were the new shoulder seam should be.

also the red dots are the armholes



bests
Holt

[Doug C]

Hey guys, I just noticed that what we're talking about with regards to the shoulder seams reminds me very much of the way my Todd's custom is made, of course the Todd's yolk would need to be about 3" to 4" longer but the top is just right... take a look at this picture:




Doug C

[CM]

Something to consider: USW do not scale their pockets according to jacket sizes. In other words they use one pocket size. That's not going to work on this jacket.

[HDRnR]

Holt, does that jacket suffer from back panel flare out ? US Wings has the backpanel indented about an inch from the side so there is no flare out, I noticed that jacket does not. Its the one thing that keeps me from buying a Wested because I can't stand the way that looks on people, they look great from the front but the back panel flaring out like they are sprouting wings just totally turns me off. Its interesting to see the Noel Howard jacket because the back panel goes all the way to the side but it does'nt really seem to flare out.

[Holt]

the backpannel on our spec sheet is constructed to meet the yoke all the way..the beckpannel should not stop 1'' away from the yoke.

that makes their backpannel look more square [ ] .when we add 1 inch on each side to meet yoke the backpannel gets a more V tappered pannel.

and the pleats wont flare out if thats what you are talking about. the pleats will be 1.5'' with no deep construction that goes under the pannel.it will be sewn on the side pannels...

just like on the original jacket


the wested jacekts are great...my personal Raiders favorite...but the reason for why it is flaring out on people is becuase they have bought the standard jacket..the pleats on the backpannel are almost the double of the size the pleats should be..thats why they are flaring out...with narrow pleats at 1.25'' it wont...no flaring on the 80's cut..but it does on the regular..

bests
Holt