Wested, I don't understand your madness...

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:09 am

OK, I'd like to buy a Wested and have no problem buying off the rack but I simply can't make sense of the jackets they offer.

I see there's a new washed goat Raiders but its a special offer and there's no real description of the jacket. Why does this thing have to be an outsourced jacket? I would buy it in a second if it weren't. I'm getting the feeling that soon all but the customs will be outsourced. I have no problem with a business doing what it wants to keep making a profit, but why can't they offer all the hides on the jackets they make in the UK?

And why do they have so many different options on seemingly the same things? I get so confused each time I go to the site. I really want a Wested but man they make it tough.

Will the washed goat be available in an off the rack that's not outsourced? I know the regular Raiders has a few choices, will this be one of them?

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:14 am

Raider S, I agree with you 100%. The problem with Wested is that when you order an OTR jacket you don't know exactly what you will receive. If you order a full priced Raiders OTR you expect to receive an UK made, because there is no outsourcing "warning" in the website, but a lot of friends here received outsourced Raiders OTR jackets! Peter said that UK or India is the same quality, but I have the right to know if my jacket is UK or not BEFORE I order it, not after receiving, because I personally think that THERE IS some difference.

I ordered two beautiful OTR jackets in the past, both made in UK, and I'm very happy with them. But today I have some problems in ordering another...

Road Warrior · Post by **Road Warrior** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:45 am

It's only about 40 bucks more (at current USD to GBP exchange rates) to go custom and get exactly what you want, made in the UK. That's less than 15% more, and worth every penny. You can spend a little more if you add an extra pocket, gussets, etc., but you can get the hide, lining, zips, etc., you want, in the size that you want.

It also doesn't take long to get a custom. Mine arrived at my door 16 days after the order was placed.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:40 am

There's a similar discussion going on over at another site. For the standard OTR Raiders there are leather facings (which I definitely don't want). On the special ROLA jackets, it is stated that there are no leather facings. For the new washed goat (which is what I'm looking at in particular), it doesn't say one way or another if facings are present.

By this, I'm not just griping for the sake of griping. Omissions are going to occur when you're working on a site, but it would be helpful to clear this up.

Herr Doktor · Post by **Herr Doktor** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:47 am

The Specials, as I understand it, are more SA than the standard OTR.

From the site (the Special Lamb page)...

"This authentic copy from 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' specifications include two-way pockets, action pleats for arm movement, side vents,

Unlike the Standard raiders which has slight modification to make it durable and street wearable this 'film jacket' although equally wearable is more lightweight.

There are no inside leather facings, the body is slimmer and the sleeves more tapered. The zip is a smaller 5 gauge nickel and the action pleat depth is narrower with two piped inside pockets."

Wish they offered the standard in washed goat.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:54 am

Herr Doktor wrote: Wish they offered the standard in washed goat.

I think this may be your lucky day.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:03 am

Ah HA!! You DO work for Wested!!!!

Kidding, of course. Folks used to accuse me of the same thing.

Regards! Michaelson

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:06 am

Michaelson wrote:Ah HA!! You DO work for Wested!!!!

Kidding, of course. Folks used to accuse me of the same thing.

Regards! Michaelson

Hee! Hee!

Best regards,

Kt.

Herr Doktor · Post by **Herr Doktor** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:25 am

KT, that's the special...not the standard.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:30 am

Herr Doktor wrote:KT, that's the special...not the standard.

Special offer "Standard".

The "Special offer Rola" is the slimmer cut one without facings.

If that makes sense?

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:32 am

Herr Doktor wrote:The Specials, as I understand it, are more SA than the standard OTR.

From the site (the Special Lamb page)...

"This authentic copy from 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' specifications include two-way pockets, action pleats for arm movement, side vents,

Unlike the Standard raiders which has slight modification to make it durable and street wearable this 'film jacket' although equally wearable is more lightweight.

There are no inside leather facings, the body is slimmer and the sleeves more tapered. The zip is a smaller 5 gauge nickel and the action pleat depth is narrower with two piped inside pockets."

Wish they offered the standard in washed goat.

Right, the lack or inclusion of leather facings is specifically mentioned for every jacket except for the washed goat (this is because it's the specific jacket I'm interested in

). The rest of the description matches that of other standards so I'd assume the facings are present, but I don't know for sure. (I suppose an email is in order.

)

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:43 am

...this is the kind of confusion that results from too much nitpicking.

Wested needs to simplify. Offer a screen accurate version of each jacket and that's it. Stop being all things to all people.

Not a criticism, just an observation.

Herr Doktor · Post by **Herr Doktor** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:45 am

Kt Templar wrote:
Herr Doktor wrote:KT, that's the special...not the standard.
Special offer "Standard".

The "Special offer Rola" is the slimmer cut one without facings.

If that makes sense?

Yes...you are right. That'll teach me to skip reading the ENTIRE description.

Thanks KT...think I found the jacket I'm going to order!! $\:D/$

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:55 am

This discussion is (was) about WHERE jackets are made, not about the differences between regular Raiders and ROLA special... We all know those.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:58 am

Indiana Strones wrote:This discussion is (was) about WHERE jackets are made, not about the differences between regular Raiders and ROLA special... We all know those.

If you are trying to save money and buying 'special offers' then assume overseas. In fact everything on the Indy part of the 'powershop' site specifically says it is from overseas.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:03 am

Sorry, may be my English is not very clear: it's not my language. People here ordered full price Raiders jackets, and they received overseas jackets. This is exactly the point. They don't want to save money, they want to know where their jackets are made. Just this.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:05 am

True, but I believe that has all been straightened out now. I have not heard or read a report of this occuring since we brought it to Peters attention.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:08 am

Michaelson wrote:True, but I believe that has all been straightened out now. I have not heard or read a report of this occuring since we brought it to Peters attention.

Regards! Michaelson

I can confirm that 2 friends of mine here at COW received Indian jackets for a full price. This is not a tragedy, of course, but I would like to know exactly if my jacket is made in UK or not, before ordering.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:09 am

Humm. That's not a good thing.

Thanks for that report. Looks like there's still a bit of confusion in the shipping department.

Regards! Michaelson

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:09 am

I can confirm that 2 friends of mine here at COW received Indian jackets for a full price. This is not a tragedy, of course, but I would like to know exactly if my jacket is made in UK or not, before ordering.[/quote]

All you have to do is ask the question.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:14 am

Kt Templar wrote:I

All you have to do is ask the question.

Very true. But, unfortunately, communication is not always a Wested speciality.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:17 am

Indiana Strones wrote:
Kt Templar wrote:I

All you have to do is ask the question.
Very true. But, unfortunately, communication is not always a Wested specialty.

It it matters, pick up the phone. I've never failed to get through.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:12 am

Hey guys, my question wasn't so much about outsourcing as they now tell on the site what jackets are outsourced. That gives me a choice, no problem. But my complaint is that they offer a new jacket I may want to buy - a washed goat Raiders - but it's ONLY available as an outsourced.

Why not have all the leather options for all the jackets?

And I agree, Wested has too many choices. Get a couple basic choices like they are now doing on the customs page. I feel bad for them dealing with the multiple page requests and all the returns for things I see as trivial issues. I'd just like a nice Wested that fits good and has a pedigree.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:22 am

Raider S wrote:But my complaint is that they offer a new jacket I may want to buy - a washed goat Raiders - but it's ONLY available as an outsourced.
.

Get in the back of the queue!

Custom coming soon.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:33 am

Kt Templar wrote:
Raider S wrote:But my complaint is that they offer a new jacket I may want to buy - a washed goat Raiders - but it's ONLY available as an outsourced.
.
Get in the back of the queue! Custom coming soon.

This is probably the route I'll end up taking. That way I'll be sure to get my (few) requests and know that it's British made.

YARVTON · Post by **YARVTON** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:16 pm

My head is schpinnning. Perhaps it is possible to have TOO many choices. Of course I want my own to be made from the-blackest-of-black leathers, so I suspect it will be a custom UK product.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:27 pm

I think the selections are a result of the infinite requests Peter gets from the like of us. We are a group that is always for the "perfect" jacket, even though perfect doesn't exist.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:30 pm

Raider S wrote:Hey guys, my question wasn't so much about outsourcing as they now tell on the site what jackets are outsourced.

Well, this is not so true for the Raiders lambskin.

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:05 pm

I'm in the market for an authentic, custom, special, standard, of-the-rack, 80's cut, outsourced, handmade by British Craftsmen in pre-washed goat.

Regards, Dr. J

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:08 pm

We'll get the elves right on it, old friend!

Regard! Michaelson

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:17 pm

Sweeeeet...

Seriously, I am very interested in the Pre-Washed Goat if available as custom.

Regards, Dr. J

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:22 pm

Make sure you Pecard it when you get it, Brady. You never know when you might want to take another ghosts tour on the QM.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:41 pm

Dr._J wrote:I'm in the market for an authentic, custom, special, standard, of-the-rack, 80's cut, outsourced, handmade by British Craftsmen in pre-washed goat.

Regards, Dr. J

Ah, you want a "Members Only" jacket.

YARVTON · Post by **YARVTON** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:13 pm

Perfect MAY exist, though it's a very personal "perfect" which may or may not be "screen accurate".

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:48 pm

Exactly - one persons perfect is anothers defect

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:53 pm

I was hoping we might hear from Peter on this one. Maybe when the hype from the new movie dies down the selection of jackets will change a bit.

From what I read here and on another forum, it seems custom is still the way to go to be 100% sure of things.

Can anyone confirm if the shoulder pads are in the new special offer washed goat? And is this the normal fit (i.e. not the slimmer 80's fit)?

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:30 pm

Raider S wrote:I was hoping we might hear from Peter on this one. Maybe when the hype from the new movie dies down the selection of jackets will change a bit.

From what I read here and on another forum, it seems custom is still the way to go to be 100% sure of things.

Can anyone confirm if the shoulder pads are in the new special offer washed goat? And is this the normal fit (i.e. not the slimmer 80's fit)?

Since it's not listed as a ROLA jacket, I'm thinking that the special offer washed goat would be a normal fit.

From two threads going on this, I've realized that I want a ROLA in washed goat. Which isn't being made at the current time.

Where's that emoticon for crying?

It's only about 40 bucks more (at current USD to GBP exchange rates) to go custom and get exactly what you want, made in the UK. That's less than 15% more, and worth every penny. You can spend a little more if you add an extra pocket, gussets, etc., but you can get the hide, lining, zips, etc., you want, in the size that you want.

Promise I'm not trying to be difficult here but the difference is around $80 (based a custom jacket in my size, 46L). Still a fantastic deal on the customs though.

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:36 pm

Okay... sorry about my ignorance, but can someone enlighten me what exactly is different between UK Made and Outsourced jackets?? Are outsources jackets inferior to the UK Made ones? If it is, is there any kind of a comparison shot or review anywhere? Are you guys upset because Peter didn't indicate it in his website or because you think it should be cheaper because it's outsourced? If it's all about the whole novelty factor of the UK made jacket despite the same or similar quality..., I am quite confused about the whole outsourced jacket ordeal here...

In my personal opinion however, the outsourced jacket should be a bit cheaper, but then again, I think Peter's jackets are pretty reasonably priced for its quality, so no complaints from me...

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:27 am

I have a Wested UK-made lambskin and an outsourced Washed Goat---after thorough evaluation, I can find no significant difference quality-wise.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:31 am

I have not been able to see a difference, quality wise, either.

The bone of contention has been 'provenance'. When a jacket is ordered, are you just buying the Wested jacket for the company 'name', or are you expecting one actually made in the shop in the UK by the folks who actually made the original Raiders jackets, instead of an unknown outsource shop overseas?

It just depends on where you 'stand' in the practice of your hobby. Nothing wrong with either choice.

Regards! Michaelson

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:31 am

Indiana Jess wrote:
Dr._J wrote:I'm in the market for an authentic, custom, special, standard, of-the-rack, 80's cut, outsourced, handmade by British Craftsmen in pre-washed goat.

Regards, Dr. J
Ah, you want a "Members Only" jacket.

Not exactly Jess...

As the late, great Groucho Marx so eloquently stated:

"I wouldn't belong to any club that would have ME as a member" (except COW of course).

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:34 am

Michaelson wrote:Make sure you Pecard it when you get it, Brady. You never know when you might want to take another ghosts tour on the QM.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

No kidding...My Aldens are STILL soggy and that was almost eight years ago!

Word to the wise: All you 2008 QM Summit patrons going on the Ghost & Legends Tour or "Haint Tour" as Michaelson and I call it, keep your powder and your pants dry! You get a little wet.

Regards, Dr. J

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:44 am

The Raiders jackets all have a large back panel. The washed goat skins we recieved her in the UK were too small to get out the back panel so have been rejected. A similar problem has occured with the outsourced jackets although they have made what they could out of them.
We are waiting for a new batch.

As far as quality is concerned there should be no difference as the skin used and materials are all the same, it is only where it is constructed that differs. If I had the jackets totally outsourced skin and all I could sell them cheaper still, but the quality would not be that same as I have seen with others.

The washed lamb, horse hide, novapelle are ALL UK made along with most of the Authentic and Dk Brown lambskin. All Indyjacket.Com jackets are made in UK.

The problem is that manufacturing in England is a rapidly shrinking business and I have a job finding good UK staff. The unit in India is managed by an Indian man who worked for me in England as a machinist.
So he is back home but he is still the same machinist. See my point.

Cheers
Peter

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:51 am

Peter thank you!

Can you please let me know if the new Special Offer Raiders in washed goat is the standard fit or 80's fit?

Also, you mentioned problems with the sizes of the hides. Are the back panels all one piece - even in the larger sizes - for the special offer washed goat Raiders and LC/CS?

If so, I have no problem getting a special offer!!!

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:00 pm

The special offer Raiders and LC jackets are all standard fit. Although I have made them slightly more fitted and a fraction longer in the body and sleeve.
The ROLA jackets are the 80 'fit.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:02 pm

Are the custom still made in house there at the Little Wested House?

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:11 pm

PETER wrote:The special offer Raiders and LC jackets are all standard fit.
The ROLA jackets are the 80 'fit.

This seems to be exactly the opposite of what we knew. Or not? I have ever heard here that the special offer ROLA was 80' fit, and the regular was standard fit.

Unless ROLA is to intend "Special offer ROLA lambskin"...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:17 pm

PETER wrote:
The washed lamb, horse hide, novapelle are ALL UK made along with most of the Authentic and Dk Brown lambskin. All Indyjacket.Com jackets are made in UK.

Peter this clarificaton is very important to my eyes, thank you!!

Wested, I don't understand your madness...

Wested, I don't understand your madness...

Wested madness

perfect doesn't exist...