Novapelle vs. pre-distressed hides, your comparisons....

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:04 am

I have always liked the smell of natural cowhide, and as some of you have mentioned, the thickness of the leather is great for colder weather. Could you give me your input on the differences between the Novapelle and pre-distressed cowhide? I read that the pre-distressed cow is lighter, not a thick as the Novapelle? Is the pre-distressed, more distressed than the Novapelle? Do you have any photo comparisons? Thanks!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:50 am

I can not make a comparison as I have the [EDIT] Novapelle only. This particular jacket is heavier than the lamb (1.8 kg) and very comfortable in 3 seasons, depending on what you wear under: a shirt, a sweatshirt or a pullover. If helps I post here some pics:

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:55 am

That's a novapelle.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:59 am

How can you say this? They sell me this jacket as pred-cow (OTR). I never ordered novapelle. Don't understand.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:43 am

Indiana Strones wrote:How can you say this? They sell me this jacket as pred-cow (OTR). I never ordered novapelle. Don't understand.

I haven't seen any of the old pre-d in the shop for ages. This is definitely novapelle, but novapelle is technically a predistressed cowhide. So it is pre-D (from a certain point of view).

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:21 pm

The reason I ask is...I ordered a dark brown, cowhide jacket, nondistressed, but it has a sort of chemical odor that masks the natural smell of cowhide, and I was just wondering if this is the same for the Novapelle hide? The leather is just as thick, etc., I'm assuming?

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:31 pm

So I have a novapelle now. This means that all the pred jackets, including OTR, are novapelle.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:32 pm

Indiana Strones wrote:So I have a novapelle now. This means that all the pred jackets, including OTR, are novapelle.

No, it doesn't. It just means your one was. They may have got new stocks of pre-d since you ordered yours.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:38 pm

Anyway, I like this hide a lot.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:39 pm

Texan Scott wrote:The reason I ask is...I ordered a dark brown, cowhide jacket, nondistressed, but it has a sort of chemical odor that masks the natural smell of cowhide, and I was just wondering if this is the same for the Novapelle hide? The leather is just as thick, etc., I'm assuming?

TS, the NP doesn't have a chemical smell but the leather smell is not particularly strong IMO.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:42 pm

Now I'M curious to see how the old pre-d cow looks like...

(Hey I'm a DIG LEADER now!!

$\:D/$

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:52 pm

Strones, was your jacket made in the U.K. Wested factory? Thanks!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:05 pm

Raider S wrote:Strones, was your jacket made in the U.K. Wested factory? Thanks!

Yes, my jacket is made in UK Wested factory, and has the Union Jack label. I bought this in March.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:13 pm

A NP few months after a coat of pecard.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:18 pm

It looks very different from mine. Mine was treated with Pecard too, 4 months ago.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:35 pm

Indiana Strones wrote: Yes, my jacket is made in UK Wested factory, and has the Union Jack label. I bought this in March.

Thanks Strones.

Just so I got this correct, yours is an off the rack Raiders style (the one seen at this link on the Wested site http://www.ekmpowershop4.com/ekmps/shop ... -103-p.asp ).

Maybe you called and asked for the pre-distressed cowhide. Just want to make sure as it's not listed as one of the leather options.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:54 pm

Raider S wrote:
Indiana Strones wrote: Yes, my jacket is made in UK Wested factory, and has the Union Jack label. I bought this in March.
Thanks Strones.

Just so I got this correct, yours is an off the rack Raiders style (the one seen at this link on the Wested site http://www.ekmpowershop4.com/ekmps/shop ... -103-p.asp ).

Maybe you called and asked for the pre-distressed cowhide. Just want to make sure as it's not listed as one of the leather options.

Yes, it's a Raiders OTR. No call: I simply chose the Predistressed Hide in the "Skin type" menu. Probably they sent me a novapelle. May be it was the only available at that time.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:59 pm

Pre dee cowhide looks like this:

My NP jacket looked like this when new:

On the same day it looked like this:

It all depends on the light.

IndianaGeo · Post by **IndianaGeo** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:07 pm

KT, was that NP the same NP I saw you wearing at the ComiCon expo? That is one nice jacket. I hadn´t really looked into the Novepelle´s before, but I really liked the one you (and John) had on. Now, I´m thinking of getting one!! Argh, I hate when this urge strikes me. It´s very Indy and I love the character of the leather... it breaks in and ages really nicely. It "feels" like an Indy jacket I think.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:10 pm

Thanks for the info Strones.

I wish Wested would put an LC off the rack in addition to the Raiders. No, I don't want an LC special offer. Happy to pay a bit more for the regular!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:27 pm

I totally agree with you Raider S. I wish the same. But we have proof that also full price regular OTR Raiders jackets are made outside UK, not only the special offers. And, despite of what Peter stated, I think that the quality of these jackets is not the same of the UK made.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:36 pm

Indiana Strones wrote:I totally agree with you Raider S. I wish the same. But we have proof that also full price regular OTR Raiders jackets are made outside UK, not only the special offers. And, despite of what Peter stated, I think that the quality of these jackets is not the same of the UK made.

Strones, your post has me bothered.

I agree with you about the quality - I can buy lots of foreign-made stuff any time.

I guess the only way to make sure I get a "Wested" Wested is to go the custom route. That might mean a bit more money, but at least I'll know. I'm about the pull the trigger on an OTR Raiders, maybe in HH, and if I could know for sure where these are from...

Trust me, I understand well the economic factors that go into outsourcing and don't want people to think I'm pointing any fingers.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:46 pm

Raider S wrote: I guess the only way to make sure I get a "Wested" Wested is to go the custom route. That might mean a bit more money, but at least I'll know. I'm about the pull the trigger on an OTR Raiders, maybe in HH, and if I could know for sure where these are from...

Trust me, I understand well the economic factors that go into outsourcing and don't want people to think I'm pointing any fingers.

I was lucky enough to order my jacket before the Crystal skull madness started, so I received an UK made. Due to the big request Wested was forced to make also regular jackets outside UK. There is evidence of this for the lambskin jackets: I don't know about other hides.
Maybe that Wested still have UK OTR jackets, so I suggest you to contact them and ask.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:02 pm

Hey Geo,

Yup the same jacket... you know you want one.....

Muhahahahaha!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:16 pm

Kt Templar wrote:Pre dee cowhide looks like this:

This looks like the ROTLA "crunch" special offer (no more available).

SpeedRcrX · Post by **SpeedRcrX** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:05 pm

Kt Templar wrote:A NP few months after a coat of pecard.

It's funny how the colour can change this much in different lights.
Mine look pretty dark and even darker now that I put its first coat of Pecard (today !).

I'll post some photos when the jacket absorb its second coat of Pecard (if I put a second coat, well we see tomorrow...).

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:18 pm

Indiana Strones wrote:
This looks like the ROTLA "crunch" special offer (no more available).

Nope, that was different again, it had a 'sandy' surface and was lambskin.

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:18 pm

Raider S, you can only get HH in custom, which is made in the Uk, so you're good

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:31 pm

Baldwyn, HH is one of the hide options in the OTR Raiders. My guess is these would be UK made, however.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:40 pm

AFAIK, the outsourced jackets were/are made in: Lamb, Goat, Washed Goat, Special Offer Roltaa Lamb, Crunch.

Not all lamb/goat/washed goat are outsourced.

I believe all SO lamb and crunch are outsourced.

Basically all the lower priced jackets.

Custom sized are made in the UK.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:33 pm

Kt Templar wrote:AFAIK, the outsourced jackets were/are made in: Lamb, Goat, Washed Goat, Special Offer Roltaa Lamb, Crunch.

Not all lamb/goat/washed goat are outsourced.

I believe all SO lamb and crunch are outsourced.

Basically all the lower priced jackets.

Custom sized are made in the UK.

KT, are the outsourced jackets made using the same Wested leather as the UK-made ones? (or is it that the outsourced jackets are made using Indian or Chinese leather?)

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:16 pm

My guess is the same leather (or maybe leather chosen specially for these) which is then sent to the outsourced plant. The leather could indeed be "different" from what they use in the UK assembly (i.e. batches of leather bought just for the special offers) but I wouldn't say it's "Indian" or "Chinese" leather.

The big cost saver in outsourcing is the labor. Even if there's added cost sending the materials to India, that is a small fee compared to how much less the labor would be.

But where a manufacturer may save extra money is on some of the components. If you ever buy something that has harware (fasteners) included, and those come from China, you'll find the metal to be far inferior to a fastener made in the U.S. So maybe a garment manufacturer will use their fabric but the thread or zippers or buttons, etc. will be obtained in the country of manufacture.

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:27 am

That NP is really, really, nice...my G&B better get here quick or I am calling Wested for an NP swatch.

It looks like a TN without the distressing, which on some of the pics posted looked a bit overdone.

How heavy a jacket would you say the NP is...alot more than goat?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:36 am

PSBIndy wrote:
KT, are the outsourced jackets made using the same Wested leather as the UK-made ones? (or is it that the outsourced jackets are made using Indian or Chinese leather?)

I really wouldn't know, you'd have to ask Peter. Although he doesn't seem to use Chinese suppliers, although there is nothing wrong with using China as long as you spec and inspect properly just as anywhere else.

I know that his leather is sourced from all over the world, the NP is South American, Venezuela seems to ring a bell.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:35 am

Kt Templar wrote:AFAIK, the outsourced jackets were/are made in: Lamb, Goat, Washed Goat, Special Offer Roltaa Lamb, Crunch.

Plus Denim.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:44 am

Indiana Strones wrote:
Kt Templar wrote:AFAIK, the outsourced jackets were/are made in: Lamb, Goat, Washed Goat, Special Offer Roltaa Lamb, Crunch.
Plus Denim.

LOL, indeed. But how many of us are counting the denim!

Though I have one and it's a very nice jacket to wear when the leather is not quite appropriate.

Jonathan Jones · Post by **Jonathan Jones** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:49 am

This is my six year old pre-distressed cowhide from Wested:

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:53 am

Thanks for your posts, KT, and quit pointing that gun at me!

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:08 pm

Indiana Strones wrote:I totally agree with you Raider S. I wish the same. But we have proof that also full price regular OTR Raiders jackets are made outside UK, not only the special offers. And, despite of what Peter stated, I think that the quality of these jackets is not the same of the UK made.

I was wondering what made you think this? The reason I was asking is the new OTR Raiders in washed goat was looking really good to me. I was going through the argument of price vs that Union Jack label. The $100 or so I'd save could probably put my mind to rest on the outsourcing but it the quality wasn't there, then I'd have to go custom.

SpeedRcrX · Post by **SpeedRcrX** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:01 pm

Here photos of my CS in Nova after 2 coats of Pecard.
Again, thanks to KT for all his useful informations.

Novapelle is IMO a soft leather but with some Peacard it's even softer and now my jacket fit even better.

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:37 pm

Oh man is that jacket gorgeous, stop it, you people are torturing me!!

I was all set with my G&B, and then you SOBs start posting these pictures - the shading/tonality of the brown is beautiful, and the non-shiny look right out of the box (bag?) is perfect. All of the NPs I have seen are amazing!

Now my whole setup is screwed up, and I have been forced to order Wested swatches.

I declare a 6 month moratorium for COW on pictures of new jackets. #### you people, #### you all!

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:16 pm

Well Bob, I have a washed goat in my sights so be forwarned!

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:44 pm

And I have a NP Raiders on the way!

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:19 am

The new "Washed Goat Raiders" from Wested looks awesome!

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:16 am

Again, with the pesting!

For anyone that has both, how does the quality on the outsourced jackets match up with the customs? My next purchase will more than likely be a Raiders washed goat. For $100 less, I can probably live without the Union Jack label, but I want the quality to be there. Is the quality comparable between the two?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:30 am

crismans wrote:Again, with the pesting!

For anyone that has both, how does the quality on the outsourced jackets match up with the customs? My next purchase will more than likely be a Raiders washed goat. For $100 less, I can probably live without the Union Jack label, but I want the quality to be there. Is the quality comparable between the two?

There is a difference. The custom is more skillfully made. If you can I would always go with the Wested custom.

If you are in a hurry and you fit then the overseas jackets are fine, and good value. The ones I have seen compare very favorably with 'another maker's' "custom" costing a lot more. The stitching was pretty similar, (stitches per inch and straightness wise) and actually stronger and better in the Wested and you get a wider choice of leathers.

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:27 am

If there are 2 things that can be said about Peter, its that:

1-he is an absolute super nice man, one that you want to find excuses to purchase product from, even if you don't necessarily need something at that time (as if an excuse is needed for that Novapelle...)

He is a dinosaur, a throwback who takes more pleasure in making his customers happy than making a buck. People like him are few and far between.

2-he is a very bright guy and knows how to run a business, keeping his customers happy as a FIRST priority

We spoke this week and he plans on revising the website, and addressing the outsourcing questions. Stay tuned...