Difinitive details of the Raiders jacket (PLEASE!)

[JimL]

Hello everyone.

At the risk of being flamed for this , I am on bended knee asking the collective for the difinitive list of significan details to have Wested make for me, a (as close as possible anyway) screen accurate Raiders of the Lost Arc jacket.

I have decided to go with his 'washed Goatskin' as I will likely destroy the Lambskin that I know is actually accurate, but that is even up in the air right now too.

BUT, more importantly, there are several details that I just cannot wrap my head around, and reading through all these posts and looking at photos for the past several days has only confused me more.

So, if there is a collection of screen shots, scren-worn jacket dimensions, or whatever that will make my 'new' jacket as it was back then (except for size and possibly the leather used), on screen, them PLEASE help me out! I am happy to carry on via PM or e-mail as well, if we want to keep this thread to a minimum.

I hope to be 'professionally' measured this weekend, and would like to call Peter next week with my order. I want to order the right thing once, and not be calling back every few days "Oh, Peter, can you change this for me?". I know how much that ***** from his point of view, as I used to make custom guitars, and yes, it *****...

So, that's it. I want a Wested Raider's jacket, and I want it to be really good, as I'm sure we all do.

Thanks in advance to any and all who are willing/able to help, and apologies for beating a dead horse, if this is in fact what I am doing. Once this final list is complete, it, as well as photos of my jacket once it arrives, should make an excellent sticky for the future...

[Raider S]

I don't know, maybe an Arc jacket it different than an Ark jacket, but don't people tend to agree that Todd's and G&B are the closest to screen accurate?

And is Wested still doing custom orders with specs other than the choices they give on their website?

[JimL]

Peter will do whatever you want, (within reason) and just charges for the changes he has to make based on the difficulty.

I don't mind spending a bit more to get the details right...

[CM]

Just get a G&B to save you the trouble.

by the way - there is no one jacket design. Several were used and they had different qualities. It's up to you to research the various options and chose what YOU want.

[JimL]

I did look at the G&B as well as the USW and was not overly blown away with either.

Didn't G&B make their pattern from a stunt jacket used in Raiders? Was that a Wested jacket, or the Wilson's jacket?

Plus, I do realize it will not be 100% accurate, as I wil likely be chaging the leather to washed goat from Lamb. I fear I will shred the lamb far to quickly for my wallet to endure... "Yes, Peter? Another like the one you did six months ago. Thanks!"

It seems like a trip over to England might be the best bet. Maybe I can arrange it to have that screen-worn ToD jacket handy for some close inspection...

[eazybox]

If accuracy is your main criterion, Todd or G&B are your best bets for a Raiders jacket.

Jack

[Holt]

I just woted yes

hey! he asked for it

bests
Holt

[bobjones]

Jim, you may have seen some pictures of a G&B, but what you should think about is to order a reference jacket from them to see it first hand.

I had a G&B dark goat 44L for a few days to check for sizing, and it is a superbly made product, and looks great. Go through the search looking for posts with "G&B" and/or "Expedition" and check out all of the photos in detail, especially the ones in dark lamb and dark goatskin. The Expo is a great jacket, and you will not be disappointed.

You also should know that the duty costs to receive a UK product, plus the shipping costs back and forth to the UK for a product that might need edits, are significant.

The long-term posters who have owned an Indy from all of the major manufacturers will tell you that the best product is found at G&B. If you want a different leather choice they don't advertise, ask. If you have your heart set on Wested, go with them, they make a great product too, as does US Wings.

But if you want to simplify your choices, make the right one from the getgo, and that's why I ordered from G&B. At least until 2009, when the US Wings CE enters the batters box...

[CM]

I did look at the G&B as well as the USW and was not overly blown away with either.

Didn't G&B make their pattern from a stunt jacket used in Raiders? Was that a Wested jacket, or the Wilson's jacket?

G&B was based on a Wested that was almost identical to the hero jacket. If you are expecially obsessive about accuracy - you need to decide what you want that the G&B doesn't have. Shouldn't be all that tough.

[Chewie Louie]

I've been clamoring for a jacket sticky detailing the ins and outs of the Indy jacket for some time. They have several for the fedora and whip, why not the jacket?

[majman]

Surely instead of buying a G&B or a Todd's there should be more requests to Wested to get a SA version of the Raiders jacket. After all they are the ones who made the original and many people, I imagine, would rater have their jacket made by the original makers. I certainly know I would.

If more requests are made then maybe Peter will add a more screen accurate vesion to his catalouge.

Jim - I think 'agent5' had a list of specs - try searching for that.

Mark

[eazybox]

As I understand it, the original pattern was lost a long time ago, and the G&B was developed from precise measurements of the screen-used stunt jacket. Over time, the G&B specs also altered slightly due to customer requests.

Then _ gave the original stunt jacket specs to Todd, who did further research to make his jackets the most accurate versions ever. _ is the real authority on this subject.

I believe even the Raiders Hero jackets are thought to have varied slightly from sample to sample. In which case, the quest for ultimate, 100% screen accuracy might just be a complete waste of our time.

We are now fortunate to have several excellent jacket vendors from which to choose, but what is perfect for one person may be all wrong for you.

The bottom line, as with any other major purchase decision, is to do your research on what is available and then get the jacket that you think most closely matches your personal needs and tastes.

Jack

[JimL]

All excellent advice...

The quest continues!

[Andymac84]

Eazy said it right.
In my opinion...you can't go wrong with a Wested Raiders Jacket. So go 4 it, and u'll love it. I promise ;-)

[JimL]

Oh, I am leaning hevily that way, I just wantto make sure somethingblatantlike the strap direction is not overlooked. It seems there are a few other makers with the straps going the wrong way...

Stuff like pocket size and placement (within reason) are not as big an issue with me, but the styleof the pocket flaps is an issue.

I guess I have to watch the movie over and over until I can identify the details that matter to me.

SLIGHTLY off topic,how do you guys get those great scren captures?

[Indiana Strones]

SLIGHTLY off topic,how do you guys get those great scren captures?

I use VLC Media Player for the screen captures. It's free.

[Dutch_jones]

I want to order the right thing once, and not be calling back every few days

Well here's the snag: Thats just it, you can order but you have to beREALLLY lucky to get exactly that.

[JimL]

Well, that IS true...

[Kt Templar]

I want to order the right thing once, and not be calling back every few days

Well here's the snag: Thats just it, you can order but you have to beREALLLY lucky to get exactly that.

Full disclosure, I think Dutch should add that he has NEVER bought a custom Wested and his remarks are purely second and third hand information. .

[JimL]

I detect a touch of sarcasim in there...

Is it really that difficult? Peter seems like a decent guy. Would it help if I bought him lunch?

[Kt Templar]

I detect a touch of sarcasim in there...

Is it really that difficult? Peter seems like a decent guy. Would it help if I bought him lunch?

Not at all, Dutch really has not ever bought or ever handled a custom Wested in his life.

[JimL]

Well, neither have I, so I guess we're even...

Just trying to nail down the details before I call.

[majman]

J!m

These are some specs that I have seen previously floating around. I can't vouch for the accuracy, but they may be a good place to start and then change what you want to suit you.

Mark

Info and screencaps courtesy of Agent5

1. Leather- Authentic brown lambskin leather.
2. Pattern- 919 (Chris King/80's/thinner) pattern.
3. Lining- Cotton Silesia lining / body and sleeves.
4. Zipper- 5 gauge aluminum zipper with small zipper pull that extends to the bottom of the jacket.
5. Leather facing- NO leather facing on the zipper.
6. Storm Flap- 1.5 inches (3.8cm) width; ROUNDED top corner.
7. Collar stand- Leather collar stand.
8. Collar- 2.75 inches (7cm)on the tips, tapering down to 2.5 inches (6.4cm). The left collar should also extend to the midway point of the top of the storm flap, or .75 inches (1.9cm) from the edge of the flap.
9. Right Pocket- 1.5 inches (3.8cm) from the zipper seam (edge of jacket).
2 inches (5.1cm) from bottom.
Width of pocket: 6.25 inches (16cm).
Length of pocket (including pocket flap) :7.5 inches. (19.1cm).
Scalloped pocket flap.
&nbs p; Pocket flap length in middle o f flap, 2.75" (7cm)
Aluminum or nickel snap.
10. Left Pocket- 1 inch (2.5cm) from storm flap.
2 inches (5.1cm) from bottom.
Width of pocket: 6.25 inches (16cm).
Length of pocket(including pocket flap) :7.5 inches. (19.1cm).
&nb sp; Scalloped pocket flap.
&nbs p; Pocket flap length in middle of flap, 2.75" (7cm)
Aluminum or nickel snap.
11. Side Strap- Legnth : 8.75 inches (22.3cm)
Width : 1 inch (2.5cm)
Side straps sewn with X pattern AND box pattern, double stitched.
12. Side strap buckles- BLACK OR GUNMETAL rectangular 2 piece rings.
13. Side vent stitch- NO stitch holding the side vents closed.
14. Pleat depth- 1.25 inches (3.2cm).
15. Yoke seam- The arm seam should be 1 inch (2.5cm) BELOW the yoke seam.
16. Back panel- The back panel should extend all the way out to the sleeve seam.
17. Inside pocket- Left side, slit (less leather) pocket.
18. Underarm Gussets- 1 piece (small) underarm gussets, or no gussets at all.

[JimL]

That is a great start.

I'm currently working on a collection of screen shots (failing at the moment) to send with this info...

Thanks for the reply!

[WeeMadHamish]

I also thought Peter announced that he wasn't accepting any more laundry-list-custom orders. Or do you just have to be willing to shell out a lot more coin for them?

[JulianK]

I voted yes just because of your avatar. Anyone that likes Land Rovers must be crazy!
...yup, myself included!

[JimL]

I also thought Peter announced that he wasn't accepting any more laundry-list-custom orders. Or do you just have to be willing to shell out a lot more coin for them?

It's simple economics: Money talks, BS walks...

I want to make it as painless as possible for him, which is why I want to get this out of the way first. I absolutely DO NOT want to keep calling and making changes to anything. As I may have mentioned before, I use to make custom guitars and I HATED when people would call/drop by the shop with 'small' changes...

Custom is custom. I am not afraid to spend the money to get exactly what I want. I, on the other hand, HATE to "throw good money after bad", meaning, buying something 'close enough' when for just a few bucks more, I could get something perfect.

[JimL]

I voted yes just because of your avatar. Anyone that likes Land Rovers must be crazy!
...yup, myself included!

Well, I actually have two. The blue one you see here, and a green one, which is reasonably old at this point (1971 model). That green one took me across North Africa in 2001...

You want to see crazy? Check out www.drivetheglobe.com

Enjoy!

[Raider S]

G&B = Military Specs.

For less than $100 more than the Wested you'll have a jacket you could pass down to you to your kids and beyond.

[JimL]

My FQHH custom Schott will fit that bill well into the next century... (I really need to post some pictures of that jacket- it is absolutely gorgeous!)

I want something lighter I can wear year-round. AND, I always wanted the 'real' Indy jacket, although that description ("real") is certainly open to interpretation, as wel all know...

I have looked at all the 'usual supects' and the maker has been selected.

I am also 99% sure the leather will be the Washed Goat, but I may ask Peter for some samples before I commit to that material. The Thin,Wested HH seems like it might not be a bad choice, and that will last beyond MY lifetime, just perhaps not past my grand-kids lifetime, as the Schott no doubt will.

Please understand this is not a slight in any way on the quality of the other makers! There are some VERY high quality jackets out there! I think the Wested custom will fit my needs (and long arms) best right now.

[Raider S]

Why not lamb? I don't understand why people are so picky about having a jacket as close to the original as possible then don't pick the leather used for the original.

[JimL]

Good point.

My reasoning is that I will very likely destroy it, if it is as soft and fragile as I am led to beleive (samples from Wested may sway my decision).

Conversely, since their HH is so thin, it might be in the running in place of Goat. HH is SO much nicer hide than Goat in the long run too (in my opinion). Once the HH breaks in, it is truly like a second skin.

Goat is fantastic (I have owned it in the past) but from that experience I can say that it will take a long time to SHOW age, which for some is a good thing. I ran my old goat through the washing machine on a few occasions, washed it down with Acetone, slapped it on the driveway, (not to mention living it it for several years) and it looked as good as the day I opened the box.

My current HH is similar, but that is exceptional hide, and I expect it too look new for several years to come.

The Wested HH seems to be a thinner cut, with a less expensive tanning process than my Schott. Still fantastic hide (probably the best option they have in my opinion) but should show some 'wear' within 2-3 years due to the lower grade tanning process as compared to my other HH jacket. A good thing for the intended look and purpose of the jacket.

Plus, HH will be a much nicer hide for the briars and throns I am likely to encounter (Goat is also excellent for this). The down side of HH is that it is quite warm, as others have mentioned. The Goat will be a more comfortable jacket as the temps climb into the triple digits, so the debate runs on...

[Raider S]

Lamb is not that soft and fragile. I've owned lamb jackets and, like all other leather, it is quite resiliant. I think lamb gets a bad rap here. Is it as tear resistant as goat? No, but that doesn't mean if you brush against something it will rip wide. I personally think lamb is a beautiful leather and if SA were that important to me there would be no other choice.

Another question. Would you be wearing a leather jacket as the temps rise into the triple digits?

[JimL]

Would you be wearing a leather jacket as the temps rise into the triple digits?

Yes, I will.

I often wear my (VERY HEAVY) HH moto jacket into the eighties if the humidity is reasonable. If riding, even higher temps are normal with that heavy jacket. I do remove the (zip-out) liner for the summer, however...

[JimL]

OK. Now I'm an idiot. (Unless I'm not)

I was just poking around on the Todd's Costumes site, looking at their shirts (awesome by the way) and looked into their 'off the rack' jackets for S&G, and found that their XL is a VERY close fit for me. Probably a bit short in the sleeve (to give the 'bit too long' sleeve look- actually a proper fit for me), but they look good otherwise.

My thought is this: Order the Todd's standard, and try the fit. If the sleeves (and/or other details) are not correct, send the satandard back and have a custom made, based on the actual returned jacket pattern with the sleeve and/or other changes as needed.

I think this is the best chance for a perfect fit, with minimal bother for everyone involved. And maybe, the of the rack will be long enough (the back length sems good at least). Perhaps I can try for a 'second' that has slightly over-length sleeves? And, being state-side, they are a bit easier to deal with for shipping etc.

I will give him a call later and chat a bit about this...

His pictures are small, but from those, the jacket seems good to me. This means, at a safe distance, it will look good to you too! Any Toddd's owner's out there who are not happy with their off the rack for whatever reason?

I am thinking that I am getting a bit too wrapped up in all this, when it is all said and done... plus the off the rack is virtually free!

Sorry to those who posted who think I'm a PITA. I certainly can be at times...

[bobjones]

Not to sound like a twerp, but you said:

1) you didn't want lamb b/c you were afraid of destroying the jacket - Todd's, while very accurate, has been positioned as primarily a costume jacket - not one to be pounded hard.

2) you were having fitting issues, and wanted a reference jacket to try on.

3) you wanted a lighter-weight jacket for Spring/Fall wearing

G&B makes what is arguably the toughest Indy, their goat is VERY high-end goat and is very lightweight (I am buying their goat for its light-weight to wear S/F also), and they are happy to send a reference jacket for sizing.

If you are serious about buying a high-quality leather jacket, why not order theirs to check them out? At least you can see what G&B is all about, and you can return it for a full refund if it doesn't work for you.

JMO.

[JimL]

Thanks for that advice- it is well taken.

I already have the best leather jacket money can buy, so I guess I resigned myself to a 'costume' jacket.

I hope to be pleasantly suprised, but if I hate the Todd's, I can send it back for a refund as well. In that case, other makers will be on the radar as well...

[eazybox]

I think it was IndyFalco who recently proved that Todd's Standard is a lot sturdier than many of us thought when he not only distressed his heavily but also attached it to the back of his vehicle and dragged it along rough and rocky back roads for miles, and it emerged completely intact from the ordeal.

Personally, I'd never do that to a jacket, but it's nice to know someone was willing to take the chance and prove that the Standard can take that degree of punishment if required to do so.


Jack

[bobjones]

Hi Eazy. The posters from my recall (and my wife will tell you, that that's not really much to rely upon in the first place) said the Todd's was very light, almost like a heavy shirt. Can't say myself, since I've never seen nor held one, to be honest though, so J!m should just order what catches his eye best.

As for J!m's comment about Schott making the "best leather jacket money can buy," as an Aero owner, along with the Lost Worlds and Vanson owners, we might have a beef with you

[JimL]

I have a PM in to him already, so I'll chat a bit about the jacket as well...

Thanks for that!

[JimL]

I'm very farmiliar with the Vanson stuff...

Name the place! (Just kidding of course)

The Vanson stuff is top notch. Lost Worlds I am also farmiliar with, but have not handled personally. They have an unusual aproach to their product that I certainly admire, and they have an (understandable) beef with Schott...

Quality of leather, attention to detail, durability of product, I think Lost Worlds and Schott are it. Schott has a bit more flexibility for custom orders, and you simply cannot deny the quality is there (on a Horse Hide jacket at least)...

Then there is the pedigree.

[eazybox]

Hi Eazy. The posters from my recall (and my wife will tell you, that that's not really much to rely upon in the first place) said the Todd's was very light, almost like a heavy shirt.

Yes, the thinness of the hide (which creates the authentic Raiders drape) is the sticking point for many with the Standard. I've heard it described as a shower curtain and even as tissue paper, but those are exaggerations.

When you first remove it from the box it can be disconcerting as it gets compressed in shipping and storage and looks "flat as a pancake" at first, but it quickly fills out as you wear it. It's probably more accurate to think of it as having the thickness of a windbreaker.

Jack

[JimL]

That sounds good to me...

Stop the wind, prevent a scratch in the woods. NOT suggested for dragging down the road. The Schott is for that (but hopefully I never find out)...

Hey, if it is a complete waste, I will just send it back. No problem!

[bobjones]

The Vanson stuff is top notch. Lost Worlds I am also farmiliar with, but have not handled personally. They have an unusual aproach to their product that I certainly admire, and they have an (understandable) beef with Schott...

Quality of leather, attention to detail, durability of product, I think Lost Worlds and Schott are it. Schott has a bit more flexibility for custom orders, and you simply cannot deny the quality is there (on a Horse Hide jacket at least)...

Then there is the pedigree.

And then there is Aero, the Ring to rule them all...