Help with crack needed

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:21 pm

So I was watching the french Delongis piece and I can't get one crack out of my head. Look here at 2:26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2KIzojrroM
The sequence performed as near as I can tell is sidearm, overhead, then...something that I can't do. It's a flick of some kind I think with no reversal of motion done..front to back? It looks really cool and effortless and I'd like to figure out what it is. Any takers?

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:09 pm

James,

You can do that crack. I've seen you do it. In fact, I've seen you do that exact combination, just in a different plane.

You're right, It's a sidearm, followed by an overhead, followed by a flick, you're just not wrapping your brain around that last part, but you can do it.

First do it this way in a vertical plane: Underhand, Circus Crack, forward flick, using the follow-through for each crack as the load phase for the next crack.

Now, (if you're right handed,) rotate that same combination by about -45 degrees, so that the underhand crack is an angled sidearm and the circus is a slightly off-plane overhead. Ohe follow through on the overhead going into the flick DON'T reverse the direction of the crack so that you're doing Queensland Crossovers, continue it in the same way that you can throw Circus Cracks directly into Forward Flicks.

If the weather's nice tomorrow, I'll go and shoot some footage of this, and try to post it.

All the best, Happy cracking, and happy first day of summer!

-Dan

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:21 pm

Yes I do believe your right. Switched over the 8' and figured it out, still pretty hit and miss though ;D

Nebraska Brad · Post by **Nebraska Brad** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:41 pm

This feature reminds me of all the great stuff they COULD have done with the whip in KOTCS

-Nebraska

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:38 am

That has to be one of the coolest cracks I've seen... TheFish - I'm looking forward to a possible video of this! I'm not figuring it out... I'll have to go try different things tomorrow!

Shane

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:23 am

Both Anthony and Kendell do this in all planes. Watch here at 3:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIIf3KMPBTQ
If you'd like, I'll post what I've got so far of the sidearm, overhead, inverse flicky thing tommra.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:02 pm

I've sent a message to Dr. Mary DeLongis regarding that particular crack, and I included a link to the YouTube video. She replied today saying she had forwarded my question to Anthony, and that he wasn't home today but that he'd be back tomorrow and hopefully able then to answer my question.

What wonderful people they are... famous and well known, but still willing and able to answer questions for normal (well......

) people like us!

So, hopefully we'll get some hints from Anthony about it.

Shane

myrddin · Post by **myrddin** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:53 pm

Slightly off topic, but the title to this thread could be pretty funny in a different context than a bullwhip forum.

Just say no, kids.

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:40 pm

Here are my attempts so far. It's harder then it looks. My whip is veeery light and that may be an issue. Notice where his hand is at the beginning of the flick, that seems to be a key. It looks like the weight of the KotCS whip is a great advantage to the thrower for this sequence.

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:52 pm

I wonder if anthony even conscieously KNEW what that crack was?
he just excretes technique!

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:54 pm

Shagbd wrote:he just excretes technique!

Yeah, he absolutely does...

He'll probably answer me back going, "Huh... I dunno WHAT that is... I was just making it up as I went!"

Shane

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:13 pm

Anthony could probably ______(Insert ANY action here)____ and it would break the sound barrier!!!!!!!!!!!!

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:12 pm

Well, Anthony never got back to me. Oh well!!! But I'd still like to figure this thing out.

James - after watching your clip, it seems like maybe it's a similar technique as is used in the "Hungarian Pig Drover's Crack." Are you familiar with that one? It's sort of like a repeated forward flick, but with the whip rotating around you the whole time. The main idea behind it is to swing the whip around you, then stop moving, so that the whip moves on its own, and then suddenly "catch up" with the whip, creating the crack. When I watch you do this crack, it looks like the whip swings out to your left on its own, and then you sort of jerk it. Is that right?

Shane

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:26 pm

Shane,

It's not a Hungarian Pig Drover crack. What you mentioned is SIMILAR, but it's based more on centrifugal force that this one is. Don't try it like that because if you pause to let the whip catch up with this combination, it will smack you in the back of the head because Gravity is a Harsh Mistress.

This is JUST a circus crack followed by a forward flick but turned into a horizontal rather than vertical plane, (DeLongis is ACTUALLY going at it at about 45-50 degrees, which makes it a little easier. I tried doing it flat horizontal, and the whip didn't crack cleanly, but at that angle, it feels and looks pretty darn sweet!)

Try it this way:

Start by throwing and underhand crack.

On the follow-thru raise your arm and let that set up a circus crack.

Use the follow through for the circus crack to move the whip behind you and then push it forward into a forward flick.

There it is. Do this in the vertical plane several times until you've got it.

Now, slowly start to angle the whip out away from your body slightly so that the underhand flick is somewhere between and underhand and a sidearm. This will cause the follow through into the circus crack to be closer to an overhead crack, then from that diagonal circus crack throw your forward flick. This is the tricky part because it feels like it's coming right at the back of your head, but KEEP THE WHIP MOVING in a STRAIGHT LINE, and that won't happen.

Work this combination over and over, slowly adjusting your angle with each successive combination from the vertical "Underhand-Circus-Forward Flick" until it's "Sidearm-Overhead-ummm....'cool little Delongis-reverse-sidearm-overhead-crack" It's that last bit that's tricky. The rest of it is just a slightly modified Queensland Crossover.

You've just got to throw a little bit more into that "Delongis-Reverse-Sidearm" flick that you do when you're doing the vertical "Underhand-Circus-Forward Flick" to rebuild the energy you just lost in the overhead throw. Normally with that combination in a vertical plane, gravity is helping you by pulling the whip down in a straight line. With this, you just need to put a little more power in the whip to keep it straight, because travelling in that diagonal plane, gravity is going to be pulling the end of the thong and the fall down toward your head, and out of alignment.

I'd demonstrate, and I know I said I'd work on posting some video stuff here and in other forums, but I'm having video issues right now, because my computer is ANCIENT, (a 9 YEAR OLD PowerMac G4! And as a video producer and instructor, that is MORE BLOODY FRUSTRATING than you can POSSIBLY IMAGINE! I can't get Final Cut Pro to install anymore, (computer is too old and I don't have the faster one I bought it for anymore,) and I HATE iMovie! WILL APPLE HURRY UP AND GET OVER THEMSELVES ABOUT THE BLOODY 3D IPHONE AND RELEASE THE NEW MINI, OR DISCONTINUE IT AND END MY WAITING???!?!?!! For the sake of the Apple Lisa!

) I've got about an hour worth of video that I want to chop pieces out of to post. It's just getting the computer to cooperate right now that's the problem. >RANT THROUGH<

I'll see Paul Nolan, Lauren Wickline, Bernardo DelCarpio, Chris Canasta" Camp, and Hopefully,) Mannie Bothans next week at Annie Oakley Days. Maybe Paul will be nice enough to post a demo or two on YouTube for me. ;-)

Not belittling Anthony there, but it really IS a simple combination. Most actually are. Anthony comes up with really unique, nifty, often VERY simple throws and combinations that are just VERY COOL that most other whip artists out there just hadn't thought to do. I think everything I've ever seen him do has been initially been, "WOW, that's REALLY cool!" and then when I look closer, I just go, "OH! THAT'S it? Geez, I can do THAT" and then go out and give it shot myself, and I have it down in few minutes.

I'm not bragging or boasting here at all, because the point I'm actually TRYING to make is that I've seen all the videos that Shane, James, and David have posted here, and I can tell from those that all of you have got all the skills and cracks necessary to replicate this and just about any cracking combination out there, (as demonstrated by James already having it down pretty well.) If you've got the forward flick and the circus crack, everything else is just window dressing. The only thing you've got to do is break it down to see what the combination of forward flicks and circus cracks is and what plane they're thrown in. It's just wrapping your brain around that. You guys are good. Keep at it! (there's my Morpheus Pep-Talk for the day.)

It's truly doubtful that Anthony was even conscious of that particular combination or that it was something he's ever rehearsed. When you practice and train to the point that the basics are as second nature as breathing, (and he has,) then you just end up DOING this stuff without a thought, and people go, "Oh my GOD, that was AMAZING!"

It's a testament to Mr. D. that he strings together such awesome stuff from the same basics we all know. Thanks for posting this video James. This is a VERY fun little set of cracks!

All the best, and happy cracking!

-Dan

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:02 am

That makes total sense! I'll be working on that tomorrow! Thank's for breaking it down like that! I hadn't looked at it as a succession of 3 cracks that I can do already in the vertical plane. I was just looking at that final crack and thinking, "How does that work?"

Thanks again!

Shane

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:28 am

Getting my planes screwed up again...heh. The best way I've picked up some of this is to watch the video over and over again and then go out and do it. Now if I could just get that "Underhand crack behind the back at 90 degree angle thing"

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:15 pm

How'm I doing, guys? Here's a quick video I did a few minutes ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKspVFuLkX4

Also, there's one more routine at the end. Pay no attention to that one! (I mean I guess you could... but that's not the one we're talking about!)

Shane

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:34 pm

THERE YA GO!

That combo from :28 - :32 nailed it EXACTLY.

One thing that will help, and this is just a little bit to work on. You're cracking is consistant, but to clean it up just a LITTLE bit, work on keeping that forward flick in a VERY straight line. You're falling EVER SO slightly out of alignment when your hand goes behind your back.

Don't feel bad, it's not actually a PROBLEM. I used to do this A LOT myself. In fact, your forward flicks are already a lot cleaner than mine were to begin with. Your whip is moving pretty straight, and your cracks and technique are CLEAN as a whistle, (by the way, is that a Stenhouse you're using? It rolls out beautifully!)

But to REALLY work on keeping the whip straight, go to the side of your house and stand so that your shoulder is about 1.5 feet away from the side of the house, and then use THAT as a reference to keep the whip parallel to the wall. When you can do it without brushing the wall with the whip, (which you want to avoid, because the whip WILL leave scuff marks on the siding! Trust me!) move and inch or two closer. Just do them over and over until it's second nature. When your arm gets tired, face the other way and work on it with your OTHER arm.

This REALLY FORCES you to be aware of those "Railroad Tracks" that DeLongis talks about, and let's you know when you go outside of it. I did the same thing for a LONG time, and then, I just tried this on a whim, and it REALLY cleaned up my forward flicks. When the whip goes behind you, it's easy not to be as AWARE of those imaginary lines we're supposed to be working from. This makes them real. And once that is set firmly in muscle memory, ALL your cracks will benefit, regardless of what plane you do them in.

After a little while of doing this, you can easily, effortlessly, and consistently crack an 8 foot whip in a hallway with an 8 foot ceiling, (once again, I don't recommend this. I'm just saying you CAN, not that you SHOULD, because, well...parents don't like it. I do it in MY house all the time, because the only person to complain is the cat. Mom and Dad don't quite appreciate it as much when I visit them.)

As stated, there's nothing wrong with what you're doing right now. I'm not being critical. Your stuff is solid and clean and consistent, (and considering you're what? Less than half my age? I'm REALLY jealous!

) It's just that a LITTLE polish, and your work will be just AWESOME.

Anyway, all the best!

-Dan

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:49 pm

Thanks very much for the critique!

Yes, I'm using a Stenhouse - I think it's a beautiful whip, and even Anthony complimented me on it. I think I got lucky. I'm really pleased with it, and I always take time to give kudos to Paul for his good work, when people mention him. Did I already mention he does beautiful work?

After seeing myself do it, yeah, I can tell I'm falling out of the plane just a little bit. It may be that transition between the circus crack and the flick, where I take a second to quickly reset the whip so that I can have a good lead in to the flick.

The cracking next to the house idea sounds good, but anywhere that there's room next to the house to crack, the ground is rough. So I don't want to take it over there, but I know what you mean about keeping it straight - and actually, sometimes I DO crack it inside my house, in the hallway (I think the ceiling is 8' or less). When I worked with Anthony, he was talking about those railroad tracks, and he mentioned that when you do the flick, you want the whip outside the tracks the entire time. My problem with the flick is that I tend to crack it in a way that's sort of like the tracks come to a point in front of me, and I'm following them that way, if that makes sense.

When I was at the Indy IV premiere, teaching people to do basic circus cracks or whatever they wanted, I would have them stand next to me and crack it. It's a fun trick, and I'm confident enough to pull it off, but it IS more difficult for me when I'm by myself.

I'll keep working on it then, and maybe post results in a week or two.

Thanks again for the great critique! Nice to have somebody else's eyes on my work. It's tough when nobody in my neighborhood cracks whips.

Shane

kooniu · Post by **kooniu** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:49 pm

Thefish wrote:

Not belittling Anthony there, but it really IS a simple combination. Most actually are. Anthony comes up with really unique, nifty, often VERY simple throws and combinations that are just VERY COOL that most other whip artists out there just hadn't thought to do. I think everything I've ever seen him do has been initially been, "WOW, that's REALLY cool!" and then when I look closer, I just go, "OH! THAT'S it? Geez, I can do THAT" and then go out and give it shot myself, and I have it down in few minutes.

this is true,but in antony hands simple cracks make gread show

I still likę watch at his new movies

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:58 pm

Admitting that you have a problem is the first step to overcoming it.

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:32 pm

kooniu wrote:this is true,but in antony hands simple cracks make gread show I still likę watch at his new movies

No doubt! There is an old saying that says that the Pupil makes the easy look difficult, while the master makes the impossible look simple.

There is a different one that applies to whips, and very much to Anthony's work with whips, sword and whatever he's doing. He makes the simple look beautiful and artistic.

-D

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:59 pm

It's a mindset thing. As a martial artists, he knows everything has a left, right, right and upside down. It's simply application of basics.